LEAVE the Conservative Party and save your country!
Comments
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As a tax professional, do you think I'm not aware of that?rick_chasey said:
Just a matter of perspective. Rules of the game are always about net pay. Both in the firm and the tax game.Stevo_666 said:
What, again?rick_chasey said:
If you won’t pay it, who will?Stevo_666 said:
If we accepted that premise then another way of looking at it is to ask who is likely raise taxes the most.rjsterry said:Nobody is lowering taxes any time soon. They can't afford to.
Also relevant is who is most likely to bear the brunt of any tax rises.
I think we know the answers to these.
Take it as motivation to go earn an extra £100k - that’s how I see it.
You're looking at it the wrong way however - my motivation would be somewhat higher if I wasn't paying over nearly half of everything extra that I earn.
Gross is just vanity 😉 "I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
You need to create yourself a bogey man. Let’s call him Leftie. Then you just tell yourself that however utterly shit everything gets it won’t be as bad as if Leftie was running things. You don’t even need to know what Leftie will do and if he says the right thing you ‘just know’ they won’t do what they say. Then you can vote Tory knowing you are doing the right thing and that no matter how corrupt, self-serving, incompetent or even purely evil individual Tory MPs are they can’t be as bad as Leftie will be. Even if Leftie is actually the best person for 99% of the country you are in the other 1% so they’re bad.wallace_and_gromit said:
They are the least bad option. Quite how the Tories have created this scenario for a previously life-long Tory voter is fascinating. I want to vote Tory, but can’t, in any conscience, do so whilst the likes of JRM and Suella are in positions of influence.Stevo_666 said:
Given that the only other realistic voting choice (i.e. not a wasted vote) is Labour, how close do you think they get to where you see yourself fitting?wallace_and_gromit said:
That was only by accident really. Had Truss not shot herself in both feet, thus allowing the much more sensible Sunak (who is only really keeping the seat warm until the "chosen one" i.e. an ideologically pure Brexiter who is administratively competent and can keep the markets onside arrives to be swept into leadership by the nutters) to take charge, then the aforementioned nonsense would have made further progress towards the statute book.Stevo_666 said:
So two points that didn't really happen?wallace_and_gromit said:
True. But one has to be wary of a party that has in recent times actively pursued the following:Stevo_666 said:
We could debate whether 5 years of Labour is a short term hit and whether it might somehow magically 'clean up' politics...wallace_and_gromit said:
I know that's a joke, and I do understand your concerns about what a leftie regime might do for us, but I've got to the point where I'm willing to take a hit in the short term in order to re-embed some integrity and competence into UK politics for the benefit of the next generation. Well, a specific two of the next generation at least! Voting the Tories in again will just encourage them to continue to act in the way that has served us all so well (not) over the last 4 years or so.Stevo_666 said:
Not sure why the phrase about Turkeys voting for Christmas springs to mind?wallace_and_gromit said:
Well as a born again "centre leftie" with former rightish tendencies such as "personal responsibility", I say that nothing should be left to chance!Stevo_666 said:
Agree. Which is why, despite all the prediction of a Tory wipeout at the next GE, the lefties and centre lefties still feel the need to resort to tactical voting.wallace_and_gromit said:There were similar websites for the 2019 GE, with a conspicuous lack of success. Folk are remarkably stubborn for GEs in a way they aren't for local elections.
- The retained EU laws bill that would have axed bazzillions of perfectly good laws, without any consideration of the consequences, just because they originated via agreements within the EU. Thankfully now moderated.
- The internal markets bill that would have breached international law (the Northern Ireland Protocol) albeit in a "limited a specific way". Thankfully never implemented.
A commitment to low taxation (which rarely seems to get honoured) in exchange for nonsense like the above doesn't feel like a good deal. As an intelligent person, you shouldn't be voting to encourage further nonsense!
The key point is that the current Tory regime's "DNA" is to indulge in that sort of ideological nonsense. If Sunak can purge the party of the nutters then I'll give serious thought to returning to the fold. Though as a result of how the Tories have conducted themselves in recent years, I've done a lot more thinking about what they actually believe in, and I think that there is too much of a gulf on social matters for me to return. The "right right economically, socially liberal and always with integrity" (where I fit) part of the Tory movement seems to have gone, if indeed it ever really existed.1 -
Unlike most of Cake Stop who have adopted the nasty Torwies as the root cause of all their problems in lifePross said:
You need to create yourself a bogey man. Let’s call him Leftie. Then you just tell yourself that however utterly censored everything gets it won’t be as bad as if Leftie was running things. You don’t even need to know what Leftie will do and if he says the right thing you ‘just know’ they won’t do what they say. Then you can vote Tory knowing you are doing the right thing and that no matter how corrupt, self-serving, incompetent or even purely evil individual Tory MPs are they can’t be as bad as Leftie will be. Even if Leftie is actually the best person for 99% of the country you are in the other 1% so they’re bad.wallace_and_gromit said:
They are the least bad option. Quite how the Tories have created this scenario for a previously life-long Tory voter is fascinating. I want to vote Tory, but can’t, in any conscience, do so whilst the likes of JRM and Suella are in positions of influence.Stevo_666 said:
Given that the only other realistic voting choice (i.e. not a wasted vote) is Labour, how close do you think they get to where you see yourself fitting?wallace_and_gromit said:
That was only by accident really. Had Truss not shot herself in both feet, thus allowing the much more sensible Sunak (who is only really keeping the seat warm until the "chosen one" i.e. an ideologically pure Brexiter who is administratively competent and can keep the markets onside arrives to be swept into leadership by the nutters) to take charge, then the aforementioned nonsense would have made further progress towards the statute book.Stevo_666 said:
So two points that didn't really happen?wallace_and_gromit said:
True. But one has to be wary of a party that has in recent times actively pursued the following:Stevo_666 said:
We could debate whether 5 years of Labour is a short term hit and whether it might somehow magically 'clean up' politics...wallace_and_gromit said:
I know that's a joke, and I do understand your concerns about what a leftie regime might do for us, but I've got to the point where I'm willing to take a hit in the short term in order to re-embed some integrity and competence into UK politics for the benefit of the next generation. Well, a specific two of the next generation at least! Voting the Tories in again will just encourage them to continue to act in the way that has served us all so well (not) over the last 4 years or so.Stevo_666 said:
Not sure why the phrase about Turkeys voting for Christmas springs to mind?wallace_and_gromit said:
Well as a born again "centre leftie" with former rightish tendencies such as "personal responsibility", I say that nothing should be left to chance!Stevo_666 said:
Agree. Which is why, despite all the prediction of a Tory wipeout at the next GE, the lefties and centre lefties still feel the need to resort to tactical voting.wallace_and_gromit said:There were similar websites for the 2019 GE, with a conspicuous lack of success. Folk are remarkably stubborn for GEs in a way they aren't for local elections.
- The retained EU laws bill that would have axed bazzillions of perfectly good laws, without any consideration of the consequences, just because they originated via agreements within the EU. Thankfully now moderated.
- The internal markets bill that would have breached international law (the Northern Ireland Protocol) albeit in a "limited a specific way". Thankfully never implemented.
A commitment to low taxation (which rarely seems to get honoured) in exchange for nonsense like the above doesn't feel like a good deal. As an intelligent person, you shouldn't be voting to encourage further nonsense!
The key point is that the current Tory regime's "DNA" is to indulge in that sort of ideological nonsense. If Sunak can purge the party of the nutters then I'll give serious thought to returning to the fold. Though as a result of how the Tories have conducted themselves in recent years, I've done a lot more thinking about what they actually believe in, and I think that there is too much of a gulf on social matters for me to return. The "right right economically, socially liberal and always with integrity" (where I fit) part of the Tory movement seems to have gone, if indeed it ever really existed.
"I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
Stevo_666 said:
Unlike most of Cake Stop who have adopted the nasty Torwies as the root cause of all their problems in lifePross said:
You need to create yourself a bogey man. Let’s call him Leftie. Then you just tell yourself that however utterly censored everything gets it won’t be as bad as if Leftie was running things. You don’t even need to know what Leftie will do and if he says the right thing you ‘just know’ they won’t do what they say. Then you can vote Tory knowing you are doing the right thing and that no matter how corrupt, self-serving, incompetent or even purely evil individual Tory MPs are they can’t be as bad as Leftie will be. Even if Leftie is actually the best person for 99% of the country you are in the other 1% so they’re bad.wallace_and_gromit said:
They are the least bad option. Quite how the Tories have created this scenario for a previously life-long Tory voter is fascinating. I want to vote Tory, but can’t, in any conscience, do so whilst the likes of JRM and Suella are in positions of influence.Stevo_666 said:
Given that the only other realistic voting choice (i.e. not a wasted vote) is Labour, how close do you think they get to where you see yourself fitting?wallace_and_gromit said:
That was only by accident really. Had Truss not shot herself in both feet, thus allowing the much more sensible Sunak (who is only really keeping the seat warm until the "chosen one" i.e. an ideologically pure Brexiter who is administratively competent and can keep the markets onside arrives to be swept into leadership by the nutters) to take charge, then the aforementioned nonsense would have made further progress towards the statute book.Stevo_666 said:
So two points that didn't really happen?wallace_and_gromit said:
True. But one has to be wary of a party that has in recent times actively pursued the following:Stevo_666 said:
We could debate whether 5 years of Labour is a short term hit and whether it might somehow magically 'clean up' politics...wallace_and_gromit said:
I know that's a joke, and I do understand your concerns about what a leftie regime might do for us, but I've got to the point where I'm willing to take a hit in the short term in order to re-embed some integrity and competence into UK politics for the benefit of the next generation. Well, a specific two of the next generation at least! Voting the Tories in again will just encourage them to continue to act in the way that has served us all so well (not) over the last 4 years or so.Stevo_666 said:
Not sure why the phrase about Turkeys voting for Christmas springs to mind?wallace_and_gromit said:
Well as a born again "centre leftie" with former rightish tendencies such as "personal responsibility", I say that nothing should be left to chance!Stevo_666 said:
Agree. Which is why, despite all the prediction of a Tory wipeout at the next GE, the lefties and centre lefties still feel the need to resort to tactical voting.wallace_and_gromit said:There were similar websites for the 2019 GE, with a conspicuous lack of success. Folk are remarkably stubborn for GEs in a way they aren't for local elections.
- The retained EU laws bill that would have axed bazzillions of perfectly good laws, without any consideration of the consequences, just because they originated via agreements within the EU. Thankfully now moderated.
- The internal markets bill that would have breached international law (the Northern Ireland Protocol) albeit in a "limited a specific way". Thankfully never implemented.
A commitment to low taxation (which rarely seems to get honoured) in exchange for nonsense like the above doesn't feel like a good deal. As an intelligent person, you shouldn't be voting to encourage further nonsense!
The key point is that the current Tory regime's "DNA" is to indulge in that sort of ideological nonsense. If Sunak can purge the party of the nutters then I'll give serious thought to returning to the fold. Though as a result of how the Tories have conducted themselves in recent years, I've done a lot more thinking about what they actually believe in, and I think that there is too much of a gulf on social matters for me to return. The "right right economically, socially liberal and always with integrity" (where I fit) part of the Tory movement seems to have gone, if indeed it ever really existed.
Wasn't it all the EU's fault?0 -
I believe that in 2016 I pondered who was going to catch all the flack when the EU could no longer be blamed and the microscope turned inwards. Everybody else apparently.briantrumpet said:Stevo_666 said:
Unlike most of Cake Stop who have adopted the nasty Torwies as the root cause of all their problems in lifePross said:
You need to create yourself a bogey man. Let’s call him Leftie. Then you just tell yourself that however utterly censored everything gets it won’t be as bad as if Leftie was running things. You don’t even need to know what Leftie will do and if he says the right thing you ‘just know’ they won’t do what they say. Then you can vote Tory knowing you are doing the right thing and that no matter how corrupt, self-serving, incompetent or even purely evil individual Tory MPs are they can’t be as bad as Leftie will be. Even if Leftie is actually the best person for 99% of the country you are in the other 1% so they’re bad.wallace_and_gromit said:
They are the least bad option. Quite how the Tories have created this scenario for a previously life-long Tory voter is fascinating. I want to vote Tory, but can’t, in any conscience, do so whilst the likes of JRM and Suella are in positions of influence.Stevo_666 said:
Given that the only other realistic voting choice (i.e. not a wasted vote) is Labour, how close do you think they get to where you see yourself fitting?wallace_and_gromit said:
That was only by accident really. Had Truss not shot herself in both feet, thus allowing the much more sensible Sunak (who is only really keeping the seat warm until the "chosen one" i.e. an ideologically pure Brexiter who is administratively competent and can keep the markets onside arrives to be swept into leadership by the nutters) to take charge, then the aforementioned nonsense would have made further progress towards the statute book.Stevo_666 said:
So two points that didn't really happen?wallace_and_gromit said:
True. But one has to be wary of a party that has in recent times actively pursued the following:Stevo_666 said:
We could debate whether 5 years of Labour is a short term hit and whether it might somehow magically 'clean up' politics...wallace_and_gromit said:
I know that's a joke, and I do understand your concerns about what a leftie regime might do for us, but I've got to the point where I'm willing to take a hit in the short term in order to re-embed some integrity and competence into UK politics for the benefit of the next generation. Well, a specific two of the next generation at least! Voting the Tories in again will just encourage them to continue to act in the way that has served us all so well (not) over the last 4 years or so.Stevo_666 said:
Not sure why the phrase about Turkeys voting for Christmas springs to mind?wallace_and_gromit said:
Well as a born again "centre leftie" with former rightish tendencies such as "personal responsibility", I say that nothing should be left to chance!Stevo_666 said:
Agree. Which is why, despite all the prediction of a Tory wipeout at the next GE, the lefties and centre lefties still feel the need to resort to tactical voting.wallace_and_gromit said:There were similar websites for the 2019 GE, with a conspicuous lack of success. Folk are remarkably stubborn for GEs in a way they aren't for local elections.
- The retained EU laws bill that would have axed bazzillions of perfectly good laws, without any consideration of the consequences, just because they originated via agreements within the EU. Thankfully now moderated.
- The internal markets bill that would have breached international law (the Northern Ireland Protocol) albeit in a "limited a specific way". Thankfully never implemented.
A commitment to low taxation (which rarely seems to get honoured) in exchange for nonsense like the above doesn't feel like a good deal. As an intelligent person, you shouldn't be voting to encourage further nonsense!
The key point is that the current Tory regime's "DNA" is to indulge in that sort of ideological nonsense. If Sunak can purge the party of the nutters then I'll give serious thought to returning to the fold. Though as a result of how the Tories have conducted themselves in recent years, I've done a lot more thinking about what they actually believe in, and I think that there is too much of a gulf on social matters for me to return. The "right right economically, socially liberal and always with integrity" (where I fit) part of the Tory movement seems to have gone, if indeed it ever really existed.
Wasn't it all the EU's fault?The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
I am not sure. You have no chance.Veronese68 wrote:PB is the most sensible person on here.0 -
What makes you think your lot will change direction? Who is there within the government who is even interested?Stevo_666 said:
Read what I said above. While the current govt has not gone in the right direction as far as I'm concerned, it will very likely be worse under Labour. I already pay enough tax IMHO, so why don't you go ahead and pay more?super_davo said:
Were you in the UK 13 years ago? Have there been any tax cuts in the last 13 years that benefitted you?Stevo_666 said:
Don't count your chickens...super_davo said:
Thing is, recent Tory tax policy (Truss, LTA etc.) would put the level you need to earn way beyond the merely quite well off to benefit. This plays to people's arrogance - e.g. you think you're doing well so should vote for "the low tax party". But the reality is unless you're currently well into the 50% bracket, you've probably been shafted far more by freezing rate thresholds in the last few years than anything Labour are likely to do.rick_chasey said:
If you won’t pay it, who will?Stevo_666 said:
If we accepted that premise then another way of looking at it is to ask who is likely raise taxes the most.rjsterry said:Nobody is lowering taxes any time soon. They can't afford to.
Also relevant is who is most likely to bear the brunt of any tax rises.
I think we know the answers to these.
Take it as motivation to go earn an extra £100k - that’s how I see it.
I just want a return to competent government, so when I speak to international colleagues, for them not to be laughing at the crazy **** my government is doing. Personally I don't expect to pay much more tax but it wouldn't be the end of the world if I did; as long as it was spent compentently rather than on massively unsubtle attempts to get a particular group of people to vote for the incumbent government.
1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
Yes, it’s terrible the way they blame problems in the country on the Party that has governed it for 13 years.Stevo_666 said:
Unlike most of Cake Stop who have adopted the nasty Torwies as the root cause of all their problems in lifePross said:
You need to create yourself a bogey man. Let’s call him Leftie. Then you just tell yourself that however utterly censored everything gets it won’t be as bad as if Leftie was running things. You don’t even need to know what Leftie will do and if he says the right thing you ‘just know’ they won’t do what they say. Then you can vote Tory knowing you are doing the right thing and that no matter how corrupt, self-serving, incompetent or even purely evil individual Tory MPs are they can’t be as bad as Leftie will be. Even if Leftie is actually the best person for 99% of the country you are in the other 1% so they’re bad.wallace_and_gromit said:
They are the least bad option. Quite how the Tories have created this scenario for a previously life-long Tory voter is fascinating. I want to vote Tory, but can’t, in any conscience, do so whilst the likes of JRM and Suella are in positions of influence.Stevo_666 said:
Given that the only other realistic voting choice (i.e. not a wasted vote) is Labour, how close do you think they get to where you see yourself fitting?wallace_and_gromit said:
That was only by accident really. Had Truss not shot herself in both feet, thus allowing the much more sensible Sunak (who is only really keeping the seat warm until the "chosen one" i.e. an ideologically pure Brexiter who is administratively competent and can keep the markets onside arrives to be swept into leadership by the nutters) to take charge, then the aforementioned nonsense would have made further progress towards the statute book.Stevo_666 said:
So two points that didn't really happen?wallace_and_gromit said:
True. But one has to be wary of a party that has in recent times actively pursued the following:Stevo_666 said:
We could debate whether 5 years of Labour is a short term hit and whether it might somehow magically 'clean up' politics...wallace_and_gromit said:
I know that's a joke, and I do understand your concerns about what a leftie regime might do for us, but I've got to the point where I'm willing to take a hit in the short term in order to re-embed some integrity and competence into UK politics for the benefit of the next generation. Well, a specific two of the next generation at least! Voting the Tories in again will just encourage them to continue to act in the way that has served us all so well (not) over the last 4 years or so.Stevo_666 said:
Not sure why the phrase about Turkeys voting for Christmas springs to mind?wallace_and_gromit said:
Well as a born again "centre leftie" with former rightish tendencies such as "personal responsibility", I say that nothing should be left to chance!Stevo_666 said:
Agree. Which is why, despite all the prediction of a Tory wipeout at the next GE, the lefties and centre lefties still feel the need to resort to tactical voting.wallace_and_gromit said:There were similar websites for the 2019 GE, with a conspicuous lack of success. Folk are remarkably stubborn for GEs in a way they aren't for local elections.
- The retained EU laws bill that would have axed bazzillions of perfectly good laws, without any consideration of the consequences, just because they originated via agreements within the EU. Thankfully now moderated.
- The internal markets bill that would have breached international law (the Northern Ireland Protocol) albeit in a "limited a specific way". Thankfully never implemented.
A commitment to low taxation (which rarely seems to get honoured) in exchange for nonsense like the above doesn't feel like a good deal. As an intelligent person, you shouldn't be voting to encourage further nonsense!
The key point is that the current Tory regime's "DNA" is to indulge in that sort of ideological nonsense. If Sunak can purge the party of the nutters then I'll give serious thought to returning to the fold. Though as a result of how the Tories have conducted themselves in recent years, I've done a lot more thinking about what they actually believe in, and I think that there is too much of a gulf on social matters for me to return. The "right right economically, socially liberal and always with integrity" (where I fit) part of the Tory movement seems to have gone, if indeed it ever really existed.0 -
Some people need to look in the mirror a bit more. But it's often easier to blame some bogey man.Pross said:
Yes, it’s terrible the way they blame problems in the country on the Party that has governed it for 13 years.Stevo_666 said:
Unlike most of Cake Stop who have adopted the nasty Torwies as the root cause of all their problems in lifePross said:
You need to create yourself a bogey man. Let’s call him Leftie. Then you just tell yourself that however utterly censored everything gets it won’t be as bad as if Leftie was running things. You don’t even need to know what Leftie will do and if he says the right thing you ‘just know’ they won’t do what they say. Then you can vote Tory knowing you are doing the right thing and that no matter how corrupt, self-serving, incompetent or even purely evil individual Tory MPs are they can’t be as bad as Leftie will be. Even if Leftie is actually the best person for 99% of the country you are in the other 1% so they’re bad.wallace_and_gromit said:
They are the least bad option. Quite how the Tories have created this scenario for a previously life-long Tory voter is fascinating. I want to vote Tory, but can’t, in any conscience, do so whilst the likes of JRM and Suella are in positions of influence.Stevo_666 said:
Given that the only other realistic voting choice (i.e. not a wasted vote) is Labour, how close do you think they get to where you see yourself fitting?wallace_and_gromit said:
That was only by accident really. Had Truss not shot herself in both feet, thus allowing the much more sensible Sunak (who is only really keeping the seat warm until the "chosen one" i.e. an ideologically pure Brexiter who is administratively competent and can keep the markets onside arrives to be swept into leadership by the nutters) to take charge, then the aforementioned nonsense would have made further progress towards the statute book.Stevo_666 said:
So two points that didn't really happen?wallace_and_gromit said:
True. But one has to be wary of a party that has in recent times actively pursued the following:Stevo_666 said:
We could debate whether 5 years of Labour is a short term hit and whether it might somehow magically 'clean up' politics...wallace_and_gromit said:
I know that's a joke, and I do understand your concerns about what a leftie regime might do for us, but I've got to the point where I'm willing to take a hit in the short term in order to re-embed some integrity and competence into UK politics for the benefit of the next generation. Well, a specific two of the next generation at least! Voting the Tories in again will just encourage them to continue to act in the way that has served us all so well (not) over the last 4 years or so.Stevo_666 said:
Not sure why the phrase about Turkeys voting for Christmas springs to mind?wallace_and_gromit said:
Well as a born again "centre leftie" with former rightish tendencies such as "personal responsibility", I say that nothing should be left to chance!Stevo_666 said:
Agree. Which is why, despite all the prediction of a Tory wipeout at the next GE, the lefties and centre lefties still feel the need to resort to tactical voting.wallace_and_gromit said:There were similar websites for the 2019 GE, with a conspicuous lack of success. Folk are remarkably stubborn for GEs in a way they aren't for local elections.
- The retained EU laws bill that would have axed bazzillions of perfectly good laws, without any consideration of the consequences, just because they originated via agreements within the EU. Thankfully now moderated.
- The internal markets bill that would have breached international law (the Northern Ireland Protocol) albeit in a "limited a specific way". Thankfully never implemented.
A commitment to low taxation (which rarely seems to get honoured) in exchange for nonsense like the above doesn't feel like a good deal. As an intelligent person, you shouldn't be voting to encourage further nonsense!
The key point is that the current Tory regime's "DNA" is to indulge in that sort of ideological nonsense. If Sunak can purge the party of the nutters then I'll give serious thought to returning to the fold. Though as a result of how the Tories have conducted themselves in recent years, I've done a lot more thinking about what they actually believe in, and I think that there is too much of a gulf on social matters for me to return. The "right right economically, socially liberal and always with integrity" (where I fit) part of the Tory movement seems to have gone, if indeed it ever really existed.
"I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
For example, Hunts recent statement that cutting taxes is the right thing, just not right now. When have Labour ever said that?rjsterry said:
What makes you think your lot will change direction? Who is there within the government who is even interested?Stevo_666 said:
Read what I said above. While the current govt has not gone in the right direction as far as I'm concerned, it will very likely be worse under Labour. I already pay enough tax IMHO, so why don't you go ahead and pay more?super_davo said:
Were you in the UK 13 years ago? Have there been any tax cuts in the last 13 years that benefitted you?Stevo_666 said:
Don't count your chickens...super_davo said:
Thing is, recent Tory tax policy (Truss, LTA etc.) would put the level you need to earn way beyond the merely quite well off to benefit. This plays to people's arrogance - e.g. you think you're doing well so should vote for "the low tax party". But the reality is unless you're currently well into the 50% bracket, you've probably been shafted far more by freezing rate thresholds in the last few years than anything Labour are likely to do.rick_chasey said:
If you won’t pay it, who will?Stevo_666 said:
If we accepted that premise then another way of looking at it is to ask who is likely raise taxes the most.rjsterry said:Nobody is lowering taxes any time soon. They can't afford to.
Also relevant is who is most likely to bear the brunt of any tax rises.
I think we know the answers to these.
Take it as motivation to go earn an extra £100k - that’s how I see it.
I just want a return to competent government, so when I speak to international colleagues, for them not to be laughing at the crazy **** my government is doing. Personally I don't expect to pay much more tax but it wouldn't be the end of the world if I did; as long as it was spent compentently rather than on massively unsubtle attempts to get a particular group of people to vote for the incumbent government."I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
Well they did try, but we've largely solved that problem nowbriantrumpet said:Stevo_666 said:
Unlike most of Cake Stop who have adopted the nasty Torwies as the root cause of all their problems in lifePross said:
You need to create yourself a bogey man. Let’s call him Leftie. Then you just tell yourself that however utterly censored everything gets it won’t be as bad as if Leftie was running things. You don’t even need to know what Leftie will do and if he says the right thing you ‘just know’ they won’t do what they say. Then you can vote Tory knowing you are doing the right thing and that no matter how corrupt, self-serving, incompetent or even purely evil individual Tory MPs are they can’t be as bad as Leftie will be. Even if Leftie is actually the best person for 99% of the country you are in the other 1% so they’re bad.wallace_and_gromit said:
They are the least bad option. Quite how the Tories have created this scenario for a previously life-long Tory voter is fascinating. I want to vote Tory, but can’t, in any conscience, do so whilst the likes of JRM and Suella are in positions of influence.Stevo_666 said:
Given that the only other realistic voting choice (i.e. not a wasted vote) is Labour, how close do you think they get to where you see yourself fitting?wallace_and_gromit said:
That was only by accident really. Had Truss not shot herself in both feet, thus allowing the much more sensible Sunak (who is only really keeping the seat warm until the "chosen one" i.e. an ideologically pure Brexiter who is administratively competent and can keep the markets onside arrives to be swept into leadership by the nutters) to take charge, then the aforementioned nonsense would have made further progress towards the statute book.Stevo_666 said:
So two points that didn't really happen?wallace_and_gromit said:
True. But one has to be wary of a party that has in recent times actively pursued the following:Stevo_666 said:
We could debate whether 5 years of Labour is a short term hit and whether it might somehow magically 'clean up' politics...wallace_and_gromit said:
I know that's a joke, and I do understand your concerns about what a leftie regime might do for us, but I've got to the point where I'm willing to take a hit in the short term in order to re-embed some integrity and competence into UK politics for the benefit of the next generation. Well, a specific two of the next generation at least! Voting the Tories in again will just encourage them to continue to act in the way that has served us all so well (not) over the last 4 years or so.Stevo_666 said:
Not sure why the phrase about Turkeys voting for Christmas springs to mind?wallace_and_gromit said:
Well as a born again "centre leftie" with former rightish tendencies such as "personal responsibility", I say that nothing should be left to chance!Stevo_666 said:
Agree. Which is why, despite all the prediction of a Tory wipeout at the next GE, the lefties and centre lefties still feel the need to resort to tactical voting.wallace_and_gromit said:There were similar websites for the 2019 GE, with a conspicuous lack of success. Folk are remarkably stubborn for GEs in a way they aren't for local elections.
- The retained EU laws bill that would have axed bazzillions of perfectly good laws, without any consideration of the consequences, just because they originated via agreements within the EU. Thankfully now moderated.
- The internal markets bill that would have breached international law (the Northern Ireland Protocol) albeit in a "limited a specific way". Thankfully never implemented.
A commitment to low taxation (which rarely seems to get honoured) in exchange for nonsense like the above doesn't feel like a good deal. As an intelligent person, you shouldn't be voting to encourage further nonsense!
The key point is that the current Tory regime's "DNA" is to indulge in that sort of ideological nonsense. If Sunak can purge the party of the nutters then I'll give serious thought to returning to the fold. Though as a result of how the Tories have conducted themselves in recent years, I've done a lot more thinking about what they actually believe in, and I think that there is too much of a gulf on social matters for me to return. The "right right economically, socially liberal and always with integrity" (where I fit) part of the Tory movement seems to have gone, if indeed it ever really existed.
Wasn't it all the EU's fault? "I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
Careful, you're showing your remainer colours there a little StevoStevo_666 said:
Some people need to look in the mirror a bit more. But it's often easier to blame some bogey man.Pross said:
Yes, it’s terrible the way they blame problems in the country on the Party that has governed it for 13 years.Stevo_666 said:
Unlike most of Cake Stop who have adopted the nasty Torwies as the root cause of all their problems in lifePross said:
You need to create yourself a bogey man. Let’s call him Leftie. Then you just tell yourself that however utterly censored everything gets it won’t be as bad as if Leftie was running things. You don’t even need to know what Leftie will do and if he says the right thing you ‘just know’ they won’t do what they say. Then you can vote Tory knowing you are doing the right thing and that no matter how corrupt, self-serving, incompetent or even purely evil individual Tory MPs are they can’t be as bad as Leftie will be. Even if Leftie is actually the best person for 99% of the country you are in the other 1% so they’re bad.wallace_and_gromit said:
They are the least bad option. Quite how the Tories have created this scenario for a previously life-long Tory voter is fascinating. I want to vote Tory, but can’t, in any conscience, do so whilst the likes of JRM and Suella are in positions of influence.Stevo_666 said:
Given that the only other realistic voting choice (i.e. not a wasted vote) is Labour, how close do you think they get to where you see yourself fitting?wallace_and_gromit said:
That was only by accident really. Had Truss not shot herself in both feet, thus allowing the much more sensible Sunak (who is only really keeping the seat warm until the "chosen one" i.e. an ideologically pure Brexiter who is administratively competent and can keep the markets onside arrives to be swept into leadership by the nutters) to take charge, then the aforementioned nonsense would have made further progress towards the statute book.Stevo_666 said:
So two points that didn't really happen?wallace_and_gromit said:
True. But one has to be wary of a party that has in recent times actively pursued the following:Stevo_666 said:
We could debate whether 5 years of Labour is a short term hit and whether it might somehow magically 'clean up' politics...wallace_and_gromit said:
I know that's a joke, and I do understand your concerns about what a leftie regime might do for us, but I've got to the point where I'm willing to take a hit in the short term in order to re-embed some integrity and competence into UK politics for the benefit of the next generation. Well, a specific two of the next generation at least! Voting the Tories in again will just encourage them to continue to act in the way that has served us all so well (not) over the last 4 years or so.Stevo_666 said:
Not sure why the phrase about Turkeys voting for Christmas springs to mind?wallace_and_gromit said:
Well as a born again "centre leftie" with former rightish tendencies such as "personal responsibility", I say that nothing should be left to chance!Stevo_666 said:
Agree. Which is why, despite all the prediction of a Tory wipeout at the next GE, the lefties and centre lefties still feel the need to resort to tactical voting.wallace_and_gromit said:There were similar websites for the 2019 GE, with a conspicuous lack of success. Folk are remarkably stubborn for GEs in a way they aren't for local elections.
- The retained EU laws bill that would have axed bazzillions of perfectly good laws, without any consideration of the consequences, just because they originated via agreements within the EU. Thankfully now moderated.
- The internal markets bill that would have breached international law (the Northern Ireland Protocol) albeit in a "limited a specific way". Thankfully never implemented.
A commitment to low taxation (which rarely seems to get honoured) in exchange for nonsense like the above doesn't feel like a good deal. As an intelligent person, you shouldn't be voting to encourage further nonsense!
The key point is that the current Tory regime's "DNA" is to indulge in that sort of ideological nonsense. If Sunak can purge the party of the nutters then I'll give serious thought to returning to the fold. Though as a result of how the Tories have conducted themselves in recent years, I've done a lot more thinking about what they actually believe in, and I think that there is too much of a gulf on social matters for me to return. The "right right economically, socially liberal and always with integrity" (where I fit) part of the Tory movement seems to have gone, if indeed it ever really existed.- Genesis Croix de Fer
- Dolan Tuono0 -
Never mind back on trackStevo_666 said:
Well they did try, but we've largely solved that problem nowbriantrumpet said:Stevo_666 said:
Unlike most of Cake Stop who have adopted the nasty Torwies as the root cause of all their problems in lifePross said:
You need to create yourself a bogey man. Let’s call him Leftie. Then you just tell yourself that however utterly censored everything gets it won’t be as bad as if Leftie was running things. You don’t even need to know what Leftie will do and if he says the right thing you ‘just know’ they won’t do what they say. Then you can vote Tory knowing you are doing the right thing and that no matter how corrupt, self-serving, incompetent or even purely evil individual Tory MPs are they can’t be as bad as Leftie will be. Even if Leftie is actually the best person for 99% of the country you are in the other 1% so they’re bad.wallace_and_gromit said:
They are the least bad option. Quite how the Tories have created this scenario for a previously life-long Tory voter is fascinating. I want to vote Tory, but can’t, in any conscience, do so whilst the likes of JRM and Suella are in positions of influence.Stevo_666 said:
Given that the only other realistic voting choice (i.e. not a wasted vote) is Labour, how close do you think they get to where you see yourself fitting?wallace_and_gromit said:
That was only by accident really. Had Truss not shot herself in both feet, thus allowing the much more sensible Sunak (who is only really keeping the seat warm until the "chosen one" i.e. an ideologically pure Brexiter who is administratively competent and can keep the markets onside arrives to be swept into leadership by the nutters) to take charge, then the aforementioned nonsense would have made further progress towards the statute book.Stevo_666 said:
So two points that didn't really happen?wallace_and_gromit said:
True. But one has to be wary of a party that has in recent times actively pursued the following:Stevo_666 said:
We could debate whether 5 years of Labour is a short term hit and whether it might somehow magically 'clean up' politics...wallace_and_gromit said:
I know that's a joke, and I do understand your concerns about what a leftie regime might do for us, but I've got to the point where I'm willing to take a hit in the short term in order to re-embed some integrity and competence into UK politics for the benefit of the next generation. Well, a specific two of the next generation at least! Voting the Tories in again will just encourage them to continue to act in the way that has served us all so well (not) over the last 4 years or so.Stevo_666 said:
Not sure why the phrase about Turkeys voting for Christmas springs to mind?wallace_and_gromit said:
Well as a born again "centre leftie" with former rightish tendencies such as "personal responsibility", I say that nothing should be left to chance!Stevo_666 said:
Agree. Which is why, despite all the prediction of a Tory wipeout at the next GE, the lefties and centre lefties still feel the need to resort to tactical voting.wallace_and_gromit said:There were similar websites for the 2019 GE, with a conspicuous lack of success. Folk are remarkably stubborn for GEs in a way they aren't for local elections.
- The retained EU laws bill that would have axed bazzillions of perfectly good laws, without any consideration of the consequences, just because they originated via agreements within the EU. Thankfully now moderated.
- The internal markets bill that would have breached international law (the Northern Ireland Protocol) albeit in a "limited a specific way". Thankfully never implemented.
A commitment to low taxation (which rarely seems to get honoured) in exchange for nonsense like the above doesn't feel like a good deal. As an intelligent person, you shouldn't be voting to encourage further nonsense!
The key point is that the current Tory regime's "DNA" is to indulge in that sort of ideological nonsense. If Sunak can purge the party of the nutters then I'll give serious thought to returning to the fold. Though as a result of how the Tories have conducted themselves in recent years, I've done a lot more thinking about what they actually believe in, and I think that there is too much of a gulf on social matters for me to return. The "right right economically, socially liberal and always with integrity" (where I fit) part of the Tory movement seems to have gone, if indeed it ever really existed.
Wasn't it all the EU's fault?
- Genesis Croix de Fer
- Dolan Tuono0 -
I’ll stick to blaming policymakers on the outcome of their policies and not by the colour rosette they wear on election day.Stevo_666 said:
Some people need to look in the mirror a bit more. But it's often easier to blame some bogey man.Pross said:
Yes, it’s terrible the way they blame problems in the country on the Party that has governed it for 13 years.Stevo_666 said:
Unlike most of Cake Stop who have adopted the nasty Torwies as the root cause of all their problems in lifePross said:
You need to create yourself a bogey man. Let’s call him Leftie. Then you just tell yourself that however utterly censored everything gets it won’t be as bad as if Leftie was running things. You don’t even need to know what Leftie will do and if he says the right thing you ‘just know’ they won’t do what they say. Then you can vote Tory knowing you are doing the right thing and that no matter how corrupt, self-serving, incompetent or even purely evil individual Tory MPs are they can’t be as bad as Leftie will be. Even if Leftie is actually the best person for 99% of the country you are in the other 1% so they’re bad.wallace_and_gromit said:
They are the least bad option. Quite how the Tories have created this scenario for a previously life-long Tory voter is fascinating. I want to vote Tory, but can’t, in any conscience, do so whilst the likes of JRM and Suella are in positions of influence.Stevo_666 said:
Given that the only other realistic voting choice (i.e. not a wasted vote) is Labour, how close do you think they get to where you see yourself fitting?wallace_and_gromit said:
That was only by accident really. Had Truss not shot herself in both feet, thus allowing the much more sensible Sunak (who is only really keeping the seat warm until the "chosen one" i.e. an ideologically pure Brexiter who is administratively competent and can keep the markets onside arrives to be swept into leadership by the nutters) to take charge, then the aforementioned nonsense would have made further progress towards the statute book.Stevo_666 said:
So two points that didn't really happen?wallace_and_gromit said:
True. But one has to be wary of a party that has in recent times actively pursued the following:Stevo_666 said:
We could debate whether 5 years of Labour is a short term hit and whether it might somehow magically 'clean up' politics...wallace_and_gromit said:
I know that's a joke, and I do understand your concerns about what a leftie regime might do for us, but I've got to the point where I'm willing to take a hit in the short term in order to re-embed some integrity and competence into UK politics for the benefit of the next generation. Well, a specific two of the next generation at least! Voting the Tories in again will just encourage them to continue to act in the way that has served us all so well (not) over the last 4 years or so.Stevo_666 said:
Not sure why the phrase about Turkeys voting for Christmas springs to mind?wallace_and_gromit said:
Well as a born again "centre leftie" with former rightish tendencies such as "personal responsibility", I say that nothing should be left to chance!Stevo_666 said:
Agree. Which is why, despite all the prediction of a Tory wipeout at the next GE, the lefties and centre lefties still feel the need to resort to tactical voting.wallace_and_gromit said:There were similar websites for the 2019 GE, with a conspicuous lack of success. Folk are remarkably stubborn for GEs in a way they aren't for local elections.
- The retained EU laws bill that would have axed bazzillions of perfectly good laws, without any consideration of the consequences, just because they originated via agreements within the EU. Thankfully now moderated.
- The internal markets bill that would have breached international law (the Northern Ireland Protocol) albeit in a "limited a specific way". Thankfully never implemented.
A commitment to low taxation (which rarely seems to get honoured) in exchange for nonsense like the above doesn't feel like a good deal. As an intelligent person, you shouldn't be voting to encourage further nonsense!
The key point is that the current Tory regime's "DNA" is to indulge in that sort of ideological nonsense. If Sunak can purge the party of the nutters then I'll give serious thought to returning to the fold. Though as a result of how the Tories have conducted themselves in recent years, I've done a lot more thinking about what they actually believe in, and I think that there is too much of a gulf on social matters for me to return. The "right right economically, socially liberal and always with integrity" (where I fit) part of the Tory movement seems to have gone, if indeed it ever really existed.2 -
Actions not words.Stevo_666 said:
For example, Hunts recent statement that cutting taxes is the right thing, just not right now. When have Labour ever said that?rjsterry said:
What makes you think your lot will change direction? Who is there within the government who is even interested?Stevo_666 said:
Read what I said above. While the current govt has not gone in the right direction as far as I'm concerned, it will very likely be worse under Labour. I already pay enough tax IMHO, so why don't you go ahead and pay more?super_davo said:
Were you in the UK 13 years ago? Have there been any tax cuts in the last 13 years that benefitted you?Stevo_666 said:
Don't count your chickens...super_davo said:
Thing is, recent Tory tax policy (Truss, LTA etc.) would put the level you need to earn way beyond the merely quite well off to benefit. This plays to people's arrogance - e.g. you think you're doing well so should vote for "the low tax party". But the reality is unless you're currently well into the 50% bracket, you've probably been shafted far more by freezing rate thresholds in the last few years than anything Labour are likely to do.rick_chasey said:
If you won’t pay it, who will?Stevo_666 said:
If we accepted that premise then another way of looking at it is to ask who is likely raise taxes the most.rjsterry said:Nobody is lowering taxes any time soon. They can't afford to.
Also relevant is who is most likely to bear the brunt of any tax rises.
I think we know the answers to these.
Take it as motivation to go earn an extra £100k - that’s how I see it.
I just want a return to competent government, so when I speak to international colleagues, for them not to be laughing at the crazy **** my government is doing. Personally I don't expect to pay much more tax but it wouldn't be the end of the world if I did; as long as it was spent compentently rather than on massively unsubtle attempts to get a particular group of people to vote for the incumbent government.1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
Given the previous PM is quoted as saying "f*** business", it seems the Conservative party already views me as the enemy. Which is why it's dying.Stevo_666 said:
You don't think they'll get worse if Labour get in. After all, as a business owner you will be the enemy.rjsterry said:
Well obviously. I've already been the brunt of tax rises so why would I think they'll change?Stevo_666 said:
Speak for yourself. It's very relevant for me.rjsterry said:
As a business owner, this is laughable.Stevo_666 said:
If we accepted that premise then another way of looking at it is to ask who is likely raise taxes the most.rjsterry said:Nobody is lowering taxes any time soon. They can't afford to.
Also relevant is who is most likely to bear the brunt of any tax rises.
I think we know the answers to these.
Right now the Labour party have more positive development policies than the Conservatives. It may well not come to pass but it's worth a punt against a party actively opposing my line of work. That's how much of a hole they're in.
In any case, I live in a Con/LD marginal with a majority of just 650, so my options are pretty clear despite the LD being next to invisible.1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition3 -
@Stevo_666 I am guessing that in your ideal world the next Tory Govt would be more traditional on the economics side. So be pro- business, low taxation, low spending, low borrowing. If not "low" then "minimise"?
So my question is do you see a pathway to this happening?0 -
This has been the most hostile and anti-business government since the early 70’s. Tory only in name.rjsterry said:
Given the previous PM is quoted as saying "f*** business", it seems the Conservative party already views me as the enemy. Which is why it's dying.Stevo_666 said:
You don't think they'll get worse if Labour get in. After all, as a business owner you will be the enemy.rjsterry said:
Well obviously. I've already been the brunt of tax rises so why would I think they'll change?Stevo_666 said:
Speak for yourself. It's very relevant for me.rjsterry said:
As a business owner, this is laughable.Stevo_666 said:
If we accepted that premise then another way of looking at it is to ask who is likely raise taxes the most.rjsterry said:Nobody is lowering taxes any time soon. They can't afford to.
Also relevant is who is most likely to bear the brunt of any tax rises.
I think we know the answers to these.
Right now the Labour party have more positive development policies than the Conservatives. That's how much of a hole they're in.0 -
Populism is anti-business. Appeasing the hoi polloi is rarely in their best interests in the long run.0
-
This bit I find curious. When Labour were under Corbyn the moderates were desperate to return the party to its core.surrey_commuter said:@Stevo_666 I am guessing that in your ideal world the next Tory Govt would be more traditional on the economics side. So be pro- business, low taxation, low spending, low borrowing. If not "low" then "minimise"?
So my question is do you see a pathway to this happening?
For the Tories, they've been taken over by the loons, but for those left there is a denial this has happened. Probably because they kicked out so many moderates.
But what's left, when you look behind the rosette colour, it's basically 2015 UKIP. Not really economically right, definitely socially right.
I am very surprised there is not more of a "I want my party back" - maybe that will start once in opposition.1 -
super_davo said:
This bit I find curious. When Labour were under Corbyn the moderates were desperate to return the party to its core.surrey_commuter said:@Stevo_666 I am guessing that in your ideal world the next Tory Govt would be more traditional on the economics side. So be pro- business, low taxation, low spending, low borrowing. If not "low" then "minimise"?
So my question is do you see a pathway to this happening?
For the Tories, they've been taken over by the loons, but for those left there is a denial this has happened. Probably because they kicked out so many moderates.
But what's left, when you look behind the rosette colour, it's basically 2015 UKIP. Not really economically right, definitely socially right.
I am very surprised there is not more of a "I want my party back" - maybe that will start once in opposition.
That's why I want them booted out in their current state, as I want a sensible Tory Party, whether they are in power or opposition.1 -
my hunch is that if they take a thrashing the rump of the party will be the true loons and that they will then have their Corbyn moment. This will give us a shite opposition and the Tories a kicking at the following election and another ineffectual opposition.briantrumpet said:super_davo said:
This bit I find curious. When Labour were under Corbyn the moderates were desperate to return the party to its core.surrey_commuter said:@Stevo_666 I am guessing that in your ideal world the next Tory Govt would be more traditional on the economics side. So be pro- business, low taxation, low spending, low borrowing. If not "low" then "minimise"?
So my question is do you see a pathway to this happening?
For the Tories, they've been taken over by the loons, but for those left there is a denial this has happened. Probably because they kicked out so many moderates.
But what's left, when you look behind the rosette colour, it's basically 2015 UKIP. Not really economically right, definitely socially right.
I am very surprised there is not more of a "I want my party back" - maybe that will start once in opposition.
That's why I want them booted out in their current state, as I want a sensible Tory Party, whether they are in power or opposition.
The party will be dominated by EU obsessives and my worry is that it will only recover when they retire/die0 -
surrey_commuter said:
my hunch is that if they take a thrashing the rump of the party will be the true loons and that they will then have their Corbyn moment. This will give us a shite opposition and the Tories a kicking at the following election and another ineffectual opposition.briantrumpet said:super_davo said:
This bit I find curious. When Labour were under Corbyn the moderates were desperate to return the party to its core.surrey_commuter said:@Stevo_666 I am guessing that in your ideal world the next Tory Govt would be more traditional on the economics side. So be pro- business, low taxation, low spending, low borrowing. If not "low" then "minimise"?
So my question is do you see a pathway to this happening?
For the Tories, they've been taken over by the loons, but for those left there is a denial this has happened. Probably because they kicked out so many moderates.
But what's left, when you look behind the rosette colour, it's basically 2015 UKIP. Not really economically right, definitely socially right.
I am very surprised there is not more of a "I want my party back" - maybe that will start once in opposition.
That's why I want them booted out in their current state, as I want a sensible Tory Party, whether they are in power or opposition.
The party will be dominated by EU obsessives and my worry is that it will only recover when they retire/die
Yeah, I'm not optimistic, but giving them a good thrashing is the only sensible option as things stand.
As I've saif before, if Sunak wanted to make his mark, he'd call time on Brexit by admitting he was wrong, and could save the Tory Party. But alas, I think he's too weak and too much of a coward.0 -
It's neither of those, in that he doesn't believe it's wrong.briantrumpet said:surrey_commuter said:
my hunch is that if they take a thrashing the rump of the party will be the true loons and that they will then have their Corbyn moment. This will give us a shite opposition and the Tories a kicking at the following election and another ineffectual opposition.briantrumpet said:super_davo said:
This bit I find curious. When Labour were under Corbyn the moderates were desperate to return the party to its core.surrey_commuter said:@Stevo_666 I am guessing that in your ideal world the next Tory Govt would be more traditional on the economics side. So be pro- business, low taxation, low spending, low borrowing. If not "low" then "minimise"?
So my question is do you see a pathway to this happening?
For the Tories, they've been taken over by the loons, but for those left there is a denial this has happened. Probably because they kicked out so many moderates.
But what's left, when you look behind the rosette colour, it's basically 2015 UKIP. Not really economically right, definitely socially right.
I am very surprised there is not more of a "I want my party back" - maybe that will start once in opposition.
That's why I want them booted out in their current state, as I want a sensible Tory Party, whether they are in power or opposition.
The party will be dominated by EU obsessives and my worry is that it will only recover when they retire/die
Yeah, I'm not optimistic, but giving them a good thrashing is the only sensible option as things stand.
As I've saif before, if Sunak wanted to make his mark, he'd call time on Brexit by admitting he was wrong, and could save the Tory Party. But alas, I think he's too weak and too much of a coward.0 -
For those arguing low tax - who is going to pay for state run services and if the answer is no one, which services would you cut?0
-
The Big Society can pick up the slack.rick_chasey said:For those arguing low tax - who is going to pay for state run services and if the answer is no one, which services would you cut?
0 -
As long as you steer clear of any details, you can just tar them all with same brush as ‘waste’.rick_chasey said:For those arguing low tax - who is going to pay for state run services and if the answer is no one, which services would you cut?
It’s only if you make the mistake of thinking some of these service actually improve our lives/society/anything that you have to recognise they must be paid for.
Ignorance is bliss.0 -
The ones I don't use of course!rick_chasey said:For those arguing low tax - who is going to pay for state run services and if the answer is no one, which services would you cut?
0 -
https://news.sky.com/story/sir-keir-starmer-vows-to-cut-taxes-for-working-people-and-rules-out-swiss-style-eu-deal-12755232Stevo_666 said:
For example, Hunts recent statement that cutting taxes is the right thing, just not right now. When have Labour ever said that?rjsterry said:
What makes you think your lot will change direction? Who is there within the government who is even interested?Stevo_666 said:
Read what I said above. While the current govt has not gone in the right direction as far as I'm concerned, it will very likely be worse under Labour. I already pay enough tax IMHO, so why don't you go ahead and pay more?super_davo said:
Were you in the UK 13 years ago? Have there been any tax cuts in the last 13 years that benefitted you?Stevo_666 said:
Don't count your chickens...super_davo said:
Thing is, recent Tory tax policy (Truss, LTA etc.) would put the level you need to earn way beyond the merely quite well off to benefit. This plays to people's arrogance - e.g. you think you're doing well so should vote for "the low tax party". But the reality is unless you're currently well into the 50% bracket, you've probably been shafted far more by freezing rate thresholds in the last few years than anything Labour are likely to do.rick_chasey said:
If you won’t pay it, who will?Stevo_666 said:
If we accepted that premise then another way of looking at it is to ask who is likely raise taxes the most.rjsterry said:Nobody is lowering taxes any time soon. They can't afford to.
Also relevant is who is most likely to bear the brunt of any tax rises.
I think we know the answers to these.
Take it as motivation to go earn an extra £100k - that’s how I see it.
I just want a return to competent government, so when I speak to international colleagues, for them not to be laughing at the crazy **** my government is doing. Personally I don't expect to pay much more tax but it wouldn't be the end of the world if I did; as long as it was spent compentently rather than on massively unsubtle attempts to get a particular group of people to vote for the incumbent government.0 -
HS2, licence fee and the monarchy for a startrick_chasey said:For those arguing low tax - who is going to pay for state run services and if the answer is no one, which services would you cut?
0 -
🤣🤣surrey_commuter said:
HS2, licence fee and the monarchy for a startrick_chasey said:For those arguing low tax - who is going to pay for state run services and if the answer is no one, which services would you cut?
So one of your three isn't even a tax. The monarchy costs the government just £83m a year. Even HS2 is only £3bn a year or 0.3% of revenue.
Emptying a swimming pool with a teaspoon.
1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0
