LEAVE the Conservative Party and save your country!
Comments
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Well as a born again "centre leftie" with former rightish tendencies such as "personal responsibility", I say that nothing should be left to chance!Stevo_666 said:
Agree. Which is why, despite all the prediction of a Tory wipeout at the next GE, the lefties and centre lefties still feel the need to resort to tactical voting.wallace_and_gromit said:There were similar websites for the 2019 GE, with a conspicuous lack of success. Folk are remarkably stubborn for GEs in a way they aren't for local elections.
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Most people aren't that politically engaged either and if they vote aren't likely to put much more thought into it than they detest Party 'X' and Party 'Y' seems to think the same as them. I'm in rock solid Labour territory but can't bring myself to vote for them so effectively waste a vote.wallace_and_gromit said:There were similar websites for the 2019 GE, with a conspicuous lack of success. Folk are remarkably stubborn for GEs in a way they aren't for local elections. Which is why, collectively, we deserve the Tories, as the anti-Tory voters weren't willing to vote tactically in sufficient numbers.
I was something of an outlier in 2019. I didn't particularly want to vote for Jezza in 2019, but I did, as the Labour candidate at least had a chance, whereas the LD candidate was in lost deposit territory. (Though my constituency was always going to return a Tory MP in 2019, if for no other reason, the sitting MP is a very good local MP who has achieved a fair amount - BT Broadband in remote villages and securing cash for flood defences - despite being a Johnson stooge.)0 -
Not sure why the phrase about Turkeys voting for Christmas springs to mind?wallace_and_gromit said:
Well as a born again "centre leftie" with former rightish tendencies such as "personal responsibility", I say that nothing should be left to chance!Stevo_666 said:
Agree. Which is why, despite all the prediction of a Tory wipeout at the next GE, the lefties and centre lefties still feel the need to resort to tactical voting.wallace_and_gromit said:There were similar websites for the 2019 GE, with a conspicuous lack of success. Folk are remarkably stubborn for GEs in a way they aren't for local elections.
"I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
I know that's a joke, and I do understand your concerns about what a leftie regime might do for us, but I've got to the point where I'm willing to take a hit in the short term in order to re-embed some integrity and competence into UK politics for the benefit of the next generation. Well, a specific two of the next generation at least! Voting the Tories in again will just encourage them to continue to act in the way that has served us all so well (not) over the last 4 years or so.Stevo_666 said:
Not sure why the phrase about Turkeys voting for Christmas springs to mind?wallace_and_gromit said:
Well as a born again "centre leftie" with former rightish tendencies such as "personal responsibility", I say that nothing should be left to chance!Stevo_666 said:
Agree. Which is why, despite all the prediction of a Tory wipeout at the next GE, the lefties and centre lefties still feel the need to resort to tactical voting.wallace_and_gromit said:There were similar websites for the 2019 GE, with a conspicuous lack of success. Folk are remarkably stubborn for GEs in a way they aren't for local elections.
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We could debate whether 5 years of Labour is a short term hit and whether it might somehow magically 'clean up' politics...wallace_and_gromit said:
I know that's a joke, and I do understand your concerns about what a leftie regime might do for us, but I've got to the point where I'm willing to take a hit in the short term in order to re-embed some integrity and competence into UK politics for the benefit of the next generation. Well, a specific two of the next generation at least! Voting the Tories in again will just encourage them to continue to act in the way that has served us all so well (not) over the last 4 years or so.Stevo_666 said:
Not sure why the phrase about Turkeys voting for Christmas springs to mind?wallace_and_gromit said:
Well as a born again "centre leftie" with former rightish tendencies such as "personal responsibility", I say that nothing should be left to chance!Stevo_666 said:
Agree. Which is why, despite all the prediction of a Tory wipeout at the next GE, the lefties and centre lefties still feel the need to resort to tactical voting.wallace_and_gromit said:There were similar websites for the 2019 GE, with a conspicuous lack of success. Folk are remarkably stubborn for GEs in a way they aren't for local elections.
"I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
Genuinely not sure why you can't see the 'hit' that is ongoing. The promised tax cuts are always just over the horizon.1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
True. But one has to be wary of a party that has in recent times actively pursued the following:Stevo_666 said:
We could debate whether 5 years of Labour is a short term hit and whether it might somehow magically 'clean up' politics...wallace_and_gromit said:
I know that's a joke, and I do understand your concerns about what a leftie regime might do for us, but I've got to the point where I'm willing to take a hit in the short term in order to re-embed some integrity and competence into UK politics for the benefit of the next generation. Well, a specific two of the next generation at least! Voting the Tories in again will just encourage them to continue to act in the way that has served us all so well (not) over the last 4 years or so.Stevo_666 said:
Not sure why the phrase about Turkeys voting for Christmas springs to mind?wallace_and_gromit said:
Well as a born again "centre leftie" with former rightish tendencies such as "personal responsibility", I say that nothing should be left to chance!Stevo_666 said:
Agree. Which is why, despite all the prediction of a Tory wipeout at the next GE, the lefties and centre lefties still feel the need to resort to tactical voting.wallace_and_gromit said:There were similar websites for the 2019 GE, with a conspicuous lack of success. Folk are remarkably stubborn for GEs in a way they aren't for local elections.
- The retained EU laws bill that would have axed bazzillions of perfectly good laws, without any consideration of the consequences, just because they originated via agreements within the EU. Thankfully now moderated.
- The internal markets bill that would have breached international law (the Northern Ireland Protocol) albeit in a "limited a specific way". Thankfully never implemented.
A commitment to low taxation (which rarely seems to get honoured) in exchange for nonsense like the above doesn't feel like a good deal. As an intelligent person, you shouldn't be voting to encourage further nonsense!
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Nobody is lowering taxes any time soon. They can't afford to.1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition1 -
If we accepted that premise then another way of looking at it is to ask who is likely raise taxes the most.rjsterry said:Nobody is lowering taxes any time soon. They can't afford to.
Also relevant is who is most likely to bear the brunt of any tax rises.
I think we know the answers to these."I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
But we've had all this nonsense and high taxes... Because we need to pay for triple lock, poorly targeted COVID schemes, the Truss experiment and we don't have the economy to pay for it due to the puritan Brexit that was implemented.wallace_and_gromit said:
True. But one has to be wary of a party that has in recent times actively pursued the following:Stevo_666 said:
We could debate whether 5 years of Labour is a short term hit and whether it might somehow magically 'clean up' politics...wallace_and_gromit said:
I know that's a joke, and I do understand your concerns about what a leftie regime might do for us, but I've got to the point where I'm willing to take a hit in the short term in order to re-embed some integrity and competence into UK politics for the benefit of the next generation. Well, a specific two of the next generation at least! Voting the Tories in again will just encourage them to continue to act in the way that has served us all so well (not) over the last 4 years or so.Stevo_666 said:
Not sure why the phrase about Turkeys voting for Christmas springs to mind?wallace_and_gromit said:
Well as a born again "centre leftie" with former rightish tendencies such as "personal responsibility", I say that nothing should be left to chance!Stevo_666 said:
Agree. Which is why, despite all the prediction of a Tory wipeout at the next GE, the lefties and centre lefties still feel the need to resort to tactical voting.wallace_and_gromit said:There were similar websites for the 2019 GE, with a conspicuous lack of success. Folk are remarkably stubborn for GEs in a way they aren't for local elections.
- The retained EU laws bill that would have axed bazzillions of perfectly good laws, without any consideration of the consequences, just because they originated via agreements within the EU. Thankfully now moderated.
- The internal markets bill that would have breached international law (the Northern Ireland Protocol) albeit in a "limited a specific way". Thankfully never implemented.
A commitment to low taxation (which rarely seems to get honoured) in exchange for nonsense like the above doesn't feel like a good deal. As an intelligent person, you shouldn't be voting to encourage further nonsense!
But hey, let's have another 5 years because Labour might be worse ...0 -
Fair points. But I think the impact of higher taxes on folk such as ourselves will cause less damage to the UK longer term than further entrenchment of the current regime's "integrity and competence free" approach. And I'm more worried about the longer term, as that's the time frame over which the Junior W&Gs will be making their way in life. A low tax bill won't be a great consolation to me if life is ****ed up for them, as it likely will be if the current muppets (and even bigger muppets in future) are allowed to continue.Stevo_666 said:
If we accepted that premise then another way of looking at it is to ask who is likely raise taxes the most.rjsterry said:Nobody is lowering taxes any time soon. They can't afford to.
Also relevant is who is most likely to bear the brunt of any tax rises.
I think we know the answers to these.0 -
Is it not a sign of madness to keep repeating the same action and expecting a different outcome? Unfortunately this could apply to either result of the GE. Woe is us.The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
I am not sure. You have no chance.Veronese68 wrote:PB is the most sensible person on here.0 -
So two points that didn't really happen?wallace_and_gromit said:
True. But one has to be wary of a party that has in recent times actively pursued the following:Stevo_666 said:
We could debate whether 5 years of Labour is a short term hit and whether it might somehow magically 'clean up' politics...wallace_and_gromit said:
I know that's a joke, and I do understand your concerns about what a leftie regime might do for us, but I've got to the point where I'm willing to take a hit in the short term in order to re-embed some integrity and competence into UK politics for the benefit of the next generation. Well, a specific two of the next generation at least! Voting the Tories in again will just encourage them to continue to act in the way that has served us all so well (not) over the last 4 years or so.Stevo_666 said:
Not sure why the phrase about Turkeys voting for Christmas springs to mind?wallace_and_gromit said:
Well as a born again "centre leftie" with former rightish tendencies such as "personal responsibility", I say that nothing should be left to chance!Stevo_666 said:
Agree. Which is why, despite all the prediction of a Tory wipeout at the next GE, the lefties and centre lefties still feel the need to resort to tactical voting.wallace_and_gromit said:There were similar websites for the 2019 GE, with a conspicuous lack of success. Folk are remarkably stubborn for GEs in a way they aren't for local elections.
- The retained EU laws bill that would have axed bazzillions of perfectly good laws, without any consideration of the consequences, just because they originated via agreements within the EU. Thankfully now moderated.
- The internal markets bill that would have breached international law (the Northern Ireland Protocol) albeit in a "limited a specific way". Thankfully never implemented.
A commitment to low taxation (which rarely seems to get honoured) in exchange for nonsense like the above doesn't feel like a good deal. As an intelligent person, you shouldn't be voting to encourage further nonsense!
And who knows what the leftiebollockers will come up with..."I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
That was only by accident really. Had Truss not shot herself in both feet, thus allowing the much more sensible Sunak (who is only really keeping the seat warm until the "chosen one" i.e. an ideologically pure Brexiter who is administratively competent and can keep the markets onside arrives to be swept into leadership by the nutters) to take charge, then the aforementioned nonsense would have made further progress towards the statute book.Stevo_666 said:
So two points that didn't really happen?wallace_and_gromit said:
True. But one has to be wary of a party that has in recent times actively pursued the following:Stevo_666 said:
We could debate whether 5 years of Labour is a short term hit and whether it might somehow magically 'clean up' politics...wallace_and_gromit said:
I know that's a joke, and I do understand your concerns about what a leftie regime might do for us, but I've got to the point where I'm willing to take a hit in the short term in order to re-embed some integrity and competence into UK politics for the benefit of the next generation. Well, a specific two of the next generation at least! Voting the Tories in again will just encourage them to continue to act in the way that has served us all so well (not) over the last 4 years or so.Stevo_666 said:
Not sure why the phrase about Turkeys voting for Christmas springs to mind?wallace_and_gromit said:
Well as a born again "centre leftie" with former rightish tendencies such as "personal responsibility", I say that nothing should be left to chance!Stevo_666 said:
Agree. Which is why, despite all the prediction of a Tory wipeout at the next GE, the lefties and centre lefties still feel the need to resort to tactical voting.wallace_and_gromit said:There were similar websites for the 2019 GE, with a conspicuous lack of success. Folk are remarkably stubborn for GEs in a way they aren't for local elections.
- The retained EU laws bill that would have axed bazzillions of perfectly good laws, without any consideration of the consequences, just because they originated via agreements within the EU. Thankfully now moderated.
- The internal markets bill that would have breached international law (the Northern Ireland Protocol) albeit in a "limited a specific way". Thankfully never implemented.
A commitment to low taxation (which rarely seems to get honoured) in exchange for nonsense like the above doesn't feel like a good deal. As an intelligent person, you shouldn't be voting to encourage further nonsense!
The key point is that the current Tory regime's "DNA" is to indulge in that sort of ideological nonsense. If Sunak can purge the party of the nutters then I'll give serious thought to returning to the fold. Though as a result of how the Tories have conducted themselves in recent years, I've done a lot more thinking about what they actually believe in, and I think that there is too much of a gulf on social matters for me to return. The "right right economically, socially liberal and always with integrity" (where I fit) part of the Tory movement seems to have gone, if indeed it ever really existed.
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Given that the only other realistic voting choice (i.e. not a wasted vote) is Labour, how close do you think they get to where you see yourself fitting?wallace_and_gromit said:
That was only by accident really. Had Truss not shot herself in both feet, thus allowing the much more sensible Sunak (who is only really keeping the seat warm until the "chosen one" i.e. an ideologically pure Brexiter who is administratively competent and can keep the markets onside arrives to be swept into leadership by the nutters) to take charge, then the aforementioned nonsense would have made further progress towards the statute book.Stevo_666 said:
So two points that didn't really happen?wallace_and_gromit said:
True. But one has to be wary of a party that has in recent times actively pursued the following:Stevo_666 said:
We could debate whether 5 years of Labour is a short term hit and whether it might somehow magically 'clean up' politics...wallace_and_gromit said:
I know that's a joke, and I do understand your concerns about what a leftie regime might do for us, but I've got to the point where I'm willing to take a hit in the short term in order to re-embed some integrity and competence into UK politics for the benefit of the next generation. Well, a specific two of the next generation at least! Voting the Tories in again will just encourage them to continue to act in the way that has served us all so well (not) over the last 4 years or so.Stevo_666 said:
Not sure why the phrase about Turkeys voting for Christmas springs to mind?wallace_and_gromit said:
Well as a born again "centre leftie" with former rightish tendencies such as "personal responsibility", I say that nothing should be left to chance!Stevo_666 said:
Agree. Which is why, despite all the prediction of a Tory wipeout at the next GE, the lefties and centre lefties still feel the need to resort to tactical voting.wallace_and_gromit said:There were similar websites for the 2019 GE, with a conspicuous lack of success. Folk are remarkably stubborn for GEs in a way they aren't for local elections.
- The retained EU laws bill that would have axed bazzillions of perfectly good laws, without any consideration of the consequences, just because they originated via agreements within the EU. Thankfully now moderated.
- The internal markets bill that would have breached international law (the Northern Ireland Protocol) albeit in a "limited a specific way". Thankfully never implemented.
A commitment to low taxation (which rarely seems to get honoured) in exchange for nonsense like the above doesn't feel like a good deal. As an intelligent person, you shouldn't be voting to encourage further nonsense!
The key point is that the current Tory regime's "DNA" is to indulge in that sort of ideological nonsense. If Sunak can purge the party of the nutters then I'll give serious thought to returning to the fold. Though as a result of how the Tories have conducted themselves in recent years, I've done a lot more thinking about what they actually believe in, and I think that there is too much of a gulf on social matters for me to return. The "right right economically, socially liberal and always with integrity" (where I fit) part of the Tory movement seems to have gone, if indeed it ever really existed."I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
As a business owner, this is laughable.Stevo_666 said:
If we accepted that premise then another way of looking at it is to ask who is likely raise taxes the most.rjsterry said:Nobody is lowering taxes any time soon. They can't afford to.
Also relevant is who is most likely to bear the brunt of any tax rises.
I think we know the answers to these.1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition1 -
If you won’t pay it, who will?Stevo_666 said:
If we accepted that premise then another way of looking at it is to ask who is likely raise taxes the most.rjsterry said:Nobody is lowering taxes any time soon. They can't afford to.
Also relevant is who is most likely to bear the brunt of any tax rises.
I think we know the answers to these.
Take it as motivation to go earn an extra £100k - that’s how I see it.0 -
Speak for yourself. It's very relevant for me.rjsterry said:
As a business owner, this is laughable.Stevo_666 said:
If we accepted that premise then another way of looking at it is to ask who is likely raise taxes the most.rjsterry said:Nobody is lowering taxes any time soon. They can't afford to.
Also relevant is who is most likely to bear the brunt of any tax rises.
I think we know the answers to these."I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
Thing is, recent Tory tax policy (Truss, LTA etc.) would put the level you need to earn way beyond the merely quite well off to benefit. This plays to people's arrogance - e.g. you think you're doing well so should vote for "the low tax party". But the reality is unless you're currently well into the 50% bracket, you've probably been shafted far more by freezing rate thresholds in the last few years than anything Labour are likely to do.rick_chasey said:
If you won’t pay it, who will?Stevo_666 said:
If we accepted that premise then another way of looking at it is to ask who is likely raise taxes the most.rjsterry said:Nobody is lowering taxes any time soon. They can't afford to.
Also relevant is who is most likely to bear the brunt of any tax rises.
I think we know the answers to these.
Take it as motivation to go earn an extra £100k - that’s how I see it.0 -
What, again?rick_chasey said:
If you won’t pay it, who will?Stevo_666 said:
If we accepted that premise then another way of looking at it is to ask who is likely raise taxes the most.rjsterry said:Nobody is lowering taxes any time soon. They can't afford to.
Also relevant is who is most likely to bear the brunt of any tax rises.
I think we know the answers to these.
Take it as motivation to go earn an extra £100k - that’s how I see it.
You're looking at it the wrong way however - my motivation would be somewhat higher if I wasn't paying over nearly half of everything extra that I earn. "I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
Don't count your chickens...super_davo said:
Thing is, recent Tory tax policy (Truss, LTA etc.) would put the level you need to earn way beyond the merely quite well off to benefit. This plays to people's arrogance - e.g. you think you're doing well so should vote for "the low tax party". But the reality is unless you're currently well into the 50% bracket, you've probably been shafted far more by freezing rate thresholds in the last few years than anything Labour are likely to do.rick_chasey said:
If you won’t pay it, who will?Stevo_666 said:
If we accepted that premise then another way of looking at it is to ask who is likely raise taxes the most.rjsterry said:Nobody is lowering taxes any time soon. They can't afford to.
Also relevant is who is most likely to bear the brunt of any tax rises.
I think we know the answers to these.
Take it as motivation to go earn an extra £100k - that’s how I see it."I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
Were you in the UK 13 years ago? Have there been any tax cuts in the last 13 years that benefitted you?Stevo_666 said:
Don't count your chickens...super_davo said:
Thing is, recent Tory tax policy (Truss, LTA etc.) would put the level you need to earn way beyond the merely quite well off to benefit. This plays to people's arrogance - e.g. you think you're doing well so should vote for "the low tax party". But the reality is unless you're currently well into the 50% bracket, you've probably been shafted far more by freezing rate thresholds in the last few years than anything Labour are likely to do.rick_chasey said:
If you won’t pay it, who will?Stevo_666 said:
If we accepted that premise then another way of looking at it is to ask who is likely raise taxes the most.rjsterry said:Nobody is lowering taxes any time soon. They can't afford to.
Also relevant is who is most likely to bear the brunt of any tax rises.
I think we know the answers to these.
Take it as motivation to go earn an extra £100k - that’s how I see it.
I just want a return to competent government, so when I speak to international colleagues, for them not to be laughing at the crazy **** my government is doing. Personally I don't expect to pay much more tax but it wouldn't be the end of the world if I did; as long as it was spent compentently rather than on massively unsubtle attempts to get a particular group of people to vote for the incumbent government.
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I wouldn't mind paying more tax if things improved, paying more tax but things still getting worse is rather irksome. This is probably considered leftiebollocks.0
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Just a matter of perspective. Rules of the game are always about net pay. Both in the firm and the tax game.Stevo_666 said:
What, again?rick_chasey said:
If you won’t pay it, who will?Stevo_666 said:
If we accepted that premise then another way of looking at it is to ask who is likely raise taxes the most.rjsterry said:Nobody is lowering taxes any time soon. They can't afford to.
Also relevant is who is most likely to bear the brunt of any tax rises.
I think we know the answers to these.
Take it as motivation to go earn an extra £100k - that’s how I see it. You're looking at it the wrong way however - my motivation would be somewhat higher if I wasn't paying over nearly half of everything extra that I earn.
Gross is just vanity 😉0 -
Glad it's not just me who takes that view.rick_chasey said:
...Stevo_666 said:
What, again?rick_chasey said:
If you won’t pay it, who will?Stevo_666 said:
If we accepted that premise then another way of looking at it is to ask who is likely raise taxes the most.rjsterry said:Nobody is lowering taxes any time soon. They can't afford to.
Also relevant is who is most likely to bear the brunt of any tax rises.
I think we know the answers to these.
Take it as motivation to go earn an extra £100k - that’s how I see it. You're looking at it the wrong way however - my motivation would be somewhat higher if I wasn't paying over nearly half of everything extra that I earn.
Gross is just vanity 😉The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
I am not sure. You have no chance.Veronese68 wrote:PB is the most sensible person on here.0 -
Well obviously. I've already been the brunt of tax rises so why would I think they'll change?Stevo_666 said:
Speak for yourself. It's very relevant for me.rjsterry said:
As a business owner, this is laughable.Stevo_666 said:
If we accepted that premise then another way of looking at it is to ask who is likely raise taxes the most.rjsterry said:Nobody is lowering taxes any time soon. They can't afford to.
Also relevant is who is most likely to bear the brunt of any tax rises.
I think we know the answers to these.1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
They are the least bad option. Quite how the Tories have created this scenario for a previously life-long Tory voter is fascinating. I want to vote Tory, but can’t, in any conscience, do so whilst the likes of JRM and Suella are in positions of influence.Stevo_666 said:
Given that the only other realistic voting choice (i.e. not a wasted vote) is Labour, how close do you think they get to where you see yourself fitting?wallace_and_gromit said:
That was only by accident really. Had Truss not shot herself in both feet, thus allowing the much more sensible Sunak (who is only really keeping the seat warm until the "chosen one" i.e. an ideologically pure Brexiter who is administratively competent and can keep the markets onside arrives to be swept into leadership by the nutters) to take charge, then the aforementioned nonsense would have made further progress towards the statute book.Stevo_666 said:
So two points that didn't really happen?wallace_and_gromit said:
True. But one has to be wary of a party that has in recent times actively pursued the following:Stevo_666 said:
We could debate whether 5 years of Labour is a short term hit and whether it might somehow magically 'clean up' politics...wallace_and_gromit said:
I know that's a joke, and I do understand your concerns about what a leftie regime might do for us, but I've got to the point where I'm willing to take a hit in the short term in order to re-embed some integrity and competence into UK politics for the benefit of the next generation. Well, a specific two of the next generation at least! Voting the Tories in again will just encourage them to continue to act in the way that has served us all so well (not) over the last 4 years or so.Stevo_666 said:
Not sure why the phrase about Turkeys voting for Christmas springs to mind?wallace_and_gromit said:
Well as a born again "centre leftie" with former rightish tendencies such as "personal responsibility", I say that nothing should be left to chance!Stevo_666 said:
Agree. Which is why, despite all the prediction of a Tory wipeout at the next GE, the lefties and centre lefties still feel the need to resort to tactical voting.wallace_and_gromit said:There were similar websites for the 2019 GE, with a conspicuous lack of success. Folk are remarkably stubborn for GEs in a way they aren't for local elections.
- The retained EU laws bill that would have axed bazzillions of perfectly good laws, without any consideration of the consequences, just because they originated via agreements within the EU. Thankfully now moderated.
- The internal markets bill that would have breached international law (the Northern Ireland Protocol) albeit in a "limited a specific way". Thankfully never implemented.
A commitment to low taxation (which rarely seems to get honoured) in exchange for nonsense like the above doesn't feel like a good deal. As an intelligent person, you shouldn't be voting to encourage further nonsense!
The key point is that the current Tory regime's "DNA" is to indulge in that sort of ideological nonsense. If Sunak can purge the party of the nutters then I'll give serious thought to returning to the fold. Though as a result of how the Tories have conducted themselves in recent years, I've done a lot more thinking about what they actually believe in, and I think that there is too much of a gulf on social matters for me to return. The "right right economically, socially liberal and always with integrity" (where I fit) part of the Tory movement seems to have gone, if indeed it ever really existed.
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Read what I said above. While the current govt has not gone in the right direction as far as I'm concerned, it will very likely be worse under Labour. I already pay enough tax IMHO, so why don't you go ahead and pay more?super_davo said:
Were you in the UK 13 years ago? Have there been any tax cuts in the last 13 years that benefitted you?Stevo_666 said:
Don't count your chickens...super_davo said:
Thing is, recent Tory tax policy (Truss, LTA etc.) would put the level you need to earn way beyond the merely quite well off to benefit. This plays to people's arrogance - e.g. you think you're doing well so should vote for "the low tax party". But the reality is unless you're currently well into the 50% bracket, you've probably been shafted far more by freezing rate thresholds in the last few years than anything Labour are likely to do.rick_chasey said:
If you won’t pay it, who will?Stevo_666 said:
If we accepted that premise then another way of looking at it is to ask who is likely raise taxes the most.rjsterry said:Nobody is lowering taxes any time soon. They can't afford to.
Also relevant is who is most likely to bear the brunt of any tax rises.
I think we know the answers to these.
Take it as motivation to go earn an extra £100k - that’s how I see it.
I just want a return to competent government, so when I speak to international colleagues, for them not to be laughing at the crazy **** my government is doing. Personally I don't expect to pay much more tax but it wouldn't be the end of the world if I did; as long as it was spent compentently rather than on massively unsubtle attempts to get a particular group of people to vote for the incumbent government.
"I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
Christmas is coming...wallace_and_gromit said:
They are the least bad option. Quite how the Tories have created this scenario for a previously life-long Tory voter is fascinating. I want to vote Tory, but can’t, in any conscience, do so whilst the likes of JRM and Suella are in positions of influence.Stevo_666 said:
Given that the only other realistic voting choice (i.e. not a wasted vote) is Labour, how close do you think they get to where you see yourself fitting?wallace_and_gromit said:
That was only by accident really. Had Truss not shot herself in both feet, thus allowing the much more sensible Sunak (who is only really keeping the seat warm until the "chosen one" i.e. an ideologically pure Brexiter who is administratively competent and can keep the markets onside arrives to be swept into leadership by the nutters) to take charge, then the aforementioned nonsense would have made further progress towards the statute book.Stevo_666 said:
So two points that didn't really happen?wallace_and_gromit said:
True. But one has to be wary of a party that has in recent times actively pursued the following:Stevo_666 said:
We could debate whether 5 years of Labour is a short term hit and whether it might somehow magically 'clean up' politics...wallace_and_gromit said:
I know that's a joke, and I do understand your concerns about what a leftie regime might do for us, but I've got to the point where I'm willing to take a hit in the short term in order to re-embed some integrity and competence into UK politics for the benefit of the next generation. Well, a specific two of the next generation at least! Voting the Tories in again will just encourage them to continue to act in the way that has served us all so well (not) over the last 4 years or so.Stevo_666 said:
Not sure why the phrase about Turkeys voting for Christmas springs to mind?wallace_and_gromit said:
Well as a born again "centre leftie" with former rightish tendencies such as "personal responsibility", I say that nothing should be left to chance!Stevo_666 said:
Agree. Which is why, despite all the prediction of a Tory wipeout at the next GE, the lefties and centre lefties still feel the need to resort to tactical voting.wallace_and_gromit said:There were similar websites for the 2019 GE, with a conspicuous lack of success. Folk are remarkably stubborn for GEs in a way they aren't for local elections.
- The retained EU laws bill that would have axed bazzillions of perfectly good laws, without any consideration of the consequences, just because they originated via agreements within the EU. Thankfully now moderated.
- The internal markets bill that would have breached international law (the Northern Ireland Protocol) albeit in a "limited a specific way". Thankfully never implemented.
A commitment to low taxation (which rarely seems to get honoured) in exchange for nonsense like the above doesn't feel like a good deal. As an intelligent person, you shouldn't be voting to encourage further nonsense!
The key point is that the current Tory regime's "DNA" is to indulge in that sort of ideological nonsense. If Sunak can purge the party of the nutters then I'll give serious thought to returning to the fold. Though as a result of how the Tories have conducted themselves in recent years, I've done a lot more thinking about what they actually believe in, and I think that there is too much of a gulf on social matters for me to return. The "right right economically, socially liberal and always with integrity" (where I fit) part of the Tory movement seems to have gone, if indeed it ever really existed.
"I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
You don't think they'll get worse if Labour get in. After all, as a business owner you will be the enemy.rjsterry said:
Well obviously. I've already been the brunt of tax rises so why would I think they'll change?Stevo_666 said:
Speak for yourself. It's very relevant for me.rjsterry said:
As a business owner, this is laughable.Stevo_666 said:
If we accepted that premise then another way of looking at it is to ask who is likely raise taxes the most.rjsterry said:Nobody is lowering taxes any time soon. They can't afford to.
Also relevant is who is most likely to bear the brunt of any tax rises.
I think we know the answers to these."I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0
