LEAVE the Conservative Party and save your country!
Comments
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Ha.kingstongraham said:
You forgot to mention student loan repayments and VAT, then.Stevo_666 said:
We were talking about taxes borne by that demographic, whereas your figures include taxes on everyone and on businesses.kingstongraham said:
31% of GDP in 1988-9Stevo_666 said:
Not sure, but it's not national quiz Stevo day, so go look it up...kingstongraham said:
How does it compare to the late 80s?Stevo_666 said:
Of course. I think it could and should be lower, as you already know. But there's no harm repeating myselfkingstongraham said:
Now that I have made you aware I was referring to the overall tax burden, would you try answering it again?Stevo_666 said:
No, I just answered your question.kingstongraham said:
You ignored it.Stevo_666 said:
Why do you assume that?kingstongraham said:
So you’ve no interest in the overall tax burden.Stevo_666 said:
Lower than in 1988 for an equivalent amount of income.kingstongraham said:
So you didn't like the tax burden in 1989. How's it looking now?Stevo_666 said:
Yep, so a rate 15% higher and a threshold £25k lower than today. As I was saying...kingstongraham said:£41,200 in 1989 adjusted for inflation is £101,702 in 2023.
35% of GDP in 2021-2
Forecast with current government plans to be 37% in 2027-8.
Taxes are higher now than they were at the time when you thought young people would be horrified to hear about them.
But still, good to know it's only personal taxes that are ultimately borne by people.1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
For someone who detests the borrowing of money, I wonder how you think Capitalism works without it.surrey_commuter said:
But those 5 overseas holidays must have cost at least £500, then add in the loss of earnings and you have a £5k hole in your deposit. Over three years you have £15k and that is before you have foregone a few lattes.rick_chasey said:If you think a holiday is the difference between a deposit and not you’re underestimating how cheap holidays are and how expensive deposits need to be .
And people are buying homes later and later in their lives and are having kids later and later, and that is primarily a cost issue. We're at a historic high for a century for how many grown ups live with their parents.
Iactually think the biggest problem with student loans is that it makes people comfortable with debt. If you already owe £30k and it is a choice of going skiing or working nights in a warehouse you are reaching for the salapettes.1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
Obvs I'm not a millennial / gen Z but. Long term debt inc things like mortgages always made me nervous. Hence my focus on debt reduction when possible. 25 year mortgage, dropped it by 20+ % after 6 years, post one employee payoff, then paid it off in whole after 12 years. Not having the pressure of this perpetual big £ thing hanging over me... meant I could tell the corporate hamster wheel to F off and become a (really enjoyed what I did) gardener.
Not sure quite how #1 daughter with her student loan debt and 35 year mortgage term can stay sane.
Thank F I'm old!0 -
Taking legal action to stop the Inquiry you've instructed from having all the information they have requested is a very odd move. I can't imagine they are too worried about protecting Boris personally so it does make you wonder what is in the information he has that they are so scared will get into the public domain.0
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Apparently Boris is going down a bit of a Rebekah Vardy route by only releasing WhatsApps after April 2021. His earlier WhatsApps, which might possibly be relevant to the Covid Inquiry, are unavailable due to being on a phone that hasn't been switched on since April 2021 due to a potential security breach.
How convenient!0 -
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You misunderstand my post and the relationship between public sector debt and capitalismrjsterry said:
For someone who detests the borrowing of money, I wonder how you think Capitalism works without it.surrey_commuter said:
But those 5 overseas holidays must have cost at least £500, then add in the loss of earnings and you have a £5k hole in your deposit. Over three years you have £15k and that is before you have foregone a few lattes.rick_chasey said:If you think a holiday is the difference between a deposit and not you’re underestimating how cheap holidays are and how expensive deposits need to be .
And people are buying homes later and later in their lives and are having kids later and later, and that is primarily a cost issue. We're at a historic high for a century for how many grown ups live with their parents.
Iactually think the biggest problem with student loans is that it makes people comfortable with debt. If you already owe £30k and it is a choice of going skiing or working nights in a warehouse you are reaching for the salapettes.0 -
You were talking about private debt, but the same applies. If everyone - from you and I to governments and supranational organisations - only ever spends from cash in the bank, the whole thing falls apart.surrey_commuter said:
You misunderstand my post and the relationship between public sector debt and capitalismrjsterry said:
For someone who detests the borrowing of money, I wonder how you think Capitalism works without it.surrey_commuter said:
But those 5 overseas holidays must have cost at least £500, then add in the loss of earnings and you have a £5k hole in your deposit. Over three years you have £15k and that is before you have foregone a few lattes.rick_chasey said:If you think a holiday is the difference between a deposit and not you’re underestimating how cheap holidays are and how expensive deposits need to be .
And people are buying homes later and later in their lives and are having kids later and later, and that is primarily a cost issue. We're at a historic high for a century for how many grown ups live with their parents.
Iactually think the biggest problem with student loans is that it makes people comfortable with debt. If you already owe £30k and it is a choice of going skiing or working nights in a warehouse you are reaching for the salapettes.1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
Does that mean that I am crashing the whole system?rjsterry said:
You were talking about private debt, but the same applies. If everyone - from you and I to governments and supranational organisations - only ever spends from cash in the bank, the whole thing falls apart.surrey_commuter said:
You misunderstand my post and the relationship between public sector debt and capitalismrjsterry said:
For someone who detests the borrowing of money, I wonder how you think Capitalism works without it.surrey_commuter said:
But those 5 overseas holidays must have cost at least £500, then add in the loss of earnings and you have a £5k hole in your deposit. Over three years you have £15k and that is before you have foregone a few lattes.rick_chasey said:If you think a holiday is the difference between a deposit and not you’re underestimating how cheap holidays are and how expensive deposits need to be .
And people are buying homes later and later in their lives and are having kids later and later, and that is primarily a cost issue. We're at a historic high for a century for how many grown ups live with their parents.
Iactually think the biggest problem with student loans is that it makes people comfortable with debt. If you already owe £30k and it is a choice of going skiing or working nights in a warehouse you are reaching for the salapettes.
Wow!The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
I am not sure. You have no chance.Veronese68 wrote:PB is the most sensible person on here.0 -
I still think that is a monumental leap from my comment about students to the collapse of capitalismrjsterry said:
You were talking about private debt, but the same applies. If everyone - from you and I to governments and supranational organisations - only ever spends from cash in the bank, the whole thing falls apart.surrey_commuter said:
You misunderstand my post and the relationship between public sector debt and capitalismrjsterry said:
For someone who detests the borrowing of money, I wonder how you think Capitalism works without it.surrey_commuter said:
But those 5 overseas holidays must have cost at least £500, then add in the loss of earnings and you have a £5k hole in your deposit. Over three years you have £15k and that is before you have foregone a few lattes.rick_chasey said:If you think a holiday is the difference between a deposit and not you’re underestimating how cheap holidays are and how expensive deposits need to be .
And people are buying homes later and later in their lives and are having kids later and later, and that is primarily a cost issue. We're at a historic high for a century for how many grown ups live with their parents.
Iactually think the biggest problem with student loans is that it makes people comfortable with debt. If you already owe £30k and it is a choice of going skiing or working nights in a warehouse you are reaching for the salapettes.0 -
Just had a look at The Telegraph website... serious question: is it anything else then just opinion now? The actual news seems to be mainly buried, and everything is geared towards selling an agenda. It's not even subtle now. It's a great shame0
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I'm sure I've heard this before... anyway, be gets nicely ratioed for the laziness of the claim.
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Perhaps falls apart is overstating but I think a world without debt is a lot more limited. For centuries people have found various ingenious ways around strict religious prohibition of lending money for interest, which suggests it is pretty fundamental to any economy. There's a lot of pearl clutching about debt but there seems to be not much behind it other than Biblical prejudice that it is somehow wrong.surrey_commuter said:
I still think that is a monumental leap from my comment about students to the collapse of capitalismrjsterry said:
You were talking about private debt, but the same applies. If everyone - from you and I to governments and supranational organisations - only ever spends from cash in the bank, the whole thing falls apart.surrey_commuter said:
You misunderstand my post and the relationship between public sector debt and capitalismrjsterry said:
For someone who detests the borrowing of money, I wonder how you think Capitalism works without it.surrey_commuter said:
But those 5 overseas holidays must have cost at least £500, then add in the loss of earnings and you have a £5k hole in your deposit. Over three years you have £15k and that is before you have foregone a few lattes.rick_chasey said:If you think a holiday is the difference between a deposit and not you’re underestimating how cheap holidays are and how expensive deposits need to be .
And people are buying homes later and later in their lives and are having kids later and later, and that is primarily a cost issue. We're at a historic high for a century for how many grown ups live with their parents.
Iactually think the biggest problem with student loans is that it makes people comfortable with debt. If you already owe £30k and it is a choice of going skiing or working nights in a warehouse you are reaching for the salapettes.1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
Neidle's currently sharing interesting thoughts on inheritance tax.
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I really don’t get how it / why it should be possible to avoid inheritance tax by giving things away before you die. The beneficiaries are still inheriting, it feels like a loophole that needs closing.0
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There are also many other ways to avoid inheritance tax much closer to death - notably business property relief which only requires 2 years before death, and investment managers can structure a product whereby you buy a life insurance policy to the value of your IHT if you die beforehand. Does only work with cash tho.Pross said:I really don’t get how it / why it should be possible to avoid inheritance tax by giving things away before you die. The beneficiaries are still inheriting, it feels like a loophole that needs closing.
Stevo said it many years ago on here but IHT is really easily avoidable.0 -
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Any gift within 7 years of death is still part of the estate, and potentially that can be the case for up to 14 years.Pross said:I really don’t get how it / why it should be possible to avoid inheritance tax by giving things away before you die. The beneficiaries are still inheriting, it feels like a loophole that needs closing.
So where do you draw the line?
You pay for your 20 something kid to go on holiday with you - should that be subject to IHT 40 years later?0 -
Bring back Thick Lizzy and her sidekick Krazi Kwarteng. They'll sort it out no probs.0
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The intergenerational snobbery is almost Edwardian. I hope the granddaughter donates the lot to Just Stop Oil 😈Jezyboy said:1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
Time to ditch IHT for our own good based on the experience of some of our more enlightened European partners:
https://telegraph.co.uk/tax/news/sweden-ditched-inheritance-tax-business-boom/
Real life experience beats theoretical leftiebollox."I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
farmers don't pay IHTshirley_basso said:
There are also many other ways to avoid inheritance tax much closer to death - notably business property relief which only requires 2 years before death, and investment managers can structure a product whereby you buy a life insurance policy to the value of your IHT if you die beforehand. Does only work with cash tho.Pross said:I really don’t get how it / why it should be possible to avoid inheritance tax by giving things away before you die. The beneficiaries are still inheriting, it feels like a loophole that needs closing.
Stevo said it many years ago on here but IHT is really easily avoidable.0 -
or remove all loopholes and have a low flat rate of 10% on everything as that will lessen the incentive to fiddle.Stevo_666 said:Time to ditch IHT for our own good based on the experience of some of our more enlightened European partners:
https://telegraph.co.uk/tax/news/sweden-ditched-inheritance-tax-business-boom/
Real life experience beats theoretical leftiebollox.
Maybe make the first £10k tax free0 -
Tax the recipient as if it is income.0
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That's a bit niche though.surrey_commuter said:
farmers don't pay IHTshirley_basso said:
There are also many other ways to avoid inheritance tax much closer to death - notably business property relief which only requires 2 years before death, and investment managers can structure a product whereby you buy a life insurance policy to the value of your IHT if you die beforehand. Does only work with cash tho.Pross said:I really don’t get how it / why it should be possible to avoid inheritance tax by giving things away before you die. The beneficiaries are still inheriting, it feels like a loophole that needs closing.
Stevo said it many years ago on here but IHT is really easily avoidable.
There are loads of qualifying equity investments. Quite a few VCT fund managers also manage IHT avoidance funds.0 -
If there is an overall benefit to be had as with the Swedish experience then just chop it altogether and make things simpler at the same time. As some countries have already done.surrey_commuter said:
or remove all loopholes and have a low flat rate of 10% on everything as that will lessen the incentive to fiddle.Stevo_666 said:Time to ditch IHT for our own good based on the experience of some of our more enlightened European partners:
https://telegraph.co.uk/tax/news/sweden-ditched-inheritance-tax-business-boom/
Real life experience beats theoretical leftiebollox.
Maybe make the first £10k tax free
If we want to return to the original brief of taxing the genuinely rich then set the limits high enough to do that and not punish people for the crime of owning a house South of Watford Gap. For example, the US IHT threshold is in excess of $10m.
If 100% IHT was a good idea then you'd think that several countries would have done it already."I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
That makes a lot of sense, and for gifts over a reasonable level as well.TheBigBean said:Tax the recipient as if it is income.
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I think inheritance tax is pretty justifiably disliked. I think the desire to leave (a little bit) of a legacy to your descendants is pretty common. The idea that the state is going to come and pinch 40% of that feels a little sad.
Obviously it's not quite as simple as the above, but even once you are more familiar with the workings of it, there still seem to be significant issues with it. Primarily it seems too easy to plan for, so it becomes a tax on those who haven't planned sufficiently, or who die unexpectedly. Neither of these seem to help with what I would see as the social intent behind the tax.0
