LEAVE the Conservative Party and save your country!
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A notable demographic within our clientele as well.wallace_and_gromit said:
UK compares well globally in PISA rankings, as of 2018 (the latest I could find).rick_chasey said:
have some vague recollection that maths abilities in general from school leavers are well below Western European rivals, let alone developed Asian. The French certainly produce a lot of very good mathsy students.pblakeney said:
Fair in that case.rick_chasey said:
I'd say so. Unless it's significantly got worse, compound interest, etc is very much part of it.pblakeney said:
Has it though? Is the question.Jezyboy said:
The level of maths required for that should have been covered before even GCSE though? I'd argue that if it hasn't gone in by 16, then what is needed is a review of teaching methods, not 2 more years of the same thingpblakeney said:
If it's about teaching practical home budget accounting then fair enough.Jezyboy said:Apparently it's time for Sunak's teach maths until 18 plan to do the media rounds again...
Theoretical mathematics (for want of a better phrase) should be a choice.
Clearly that wasn't on the syllabus for O-levels judging by the maths for 50+ year old columnists who don't understand why smaller % increases in interest rates have a bigger impact when house prices are 10x what they were.
Don't know why Rishi is pushing this then.
Nothing to back this up so could be BS.
https://www.oecd.org/pisa/PISA 2018 Insights and Interpretations FINAL PDF.pdf
I think the issue for the UK is negative progress.
There are a lot of very good French mathematicians in the FS world, to the extent that being described as being "like a French mathematician" is definitely a compliment in the (limited) circles in which I move.1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
I think the way the questions are worded are what tends to stump the 'O' level generation. I was in the second year to do GCSEs (actually I took maths early so was in the first year) and the past papers we had would have just asked a straight out question rather than the odd scenario given in this example. As seen from the replies above people get caught out by the wording as much as the actual maths and its debatable whether verbal reasoning should be part of a maths exam. You would presumably still get fairly decent marks for the question by showing your workings and demonstrating you understand the process though.rick_chasey said:
On the maths unit in my HNC we were taught integration with straight numbers but no 'real-world' examples, wethen got a question in an exam about calculating the area of an annulus. I couldn't answer as I didn't know what an annulus was!0 -
Long time since I did maths, I think we would have been presented with something along the lines of :-
(x-x/3) -12 = x/2
what is the value of x
Happy for anybody to correct, It was a long, long time ago…….
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Old geezer Q: when I were at school doing O-grades (Écosse innit) there were separate exams for Arithmetic and Mathematics. I was good (A before the days of ** inflation) at former, not so much at latter. Is maths just one thing now?0
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I thought mathematics covered all the numbery subjects like arithmetic, algebra, trigonometry, logarithms etc.
I suspect what Rishi is going on about is numeracy.
I quite liked the stuff that came in the little tin that we drew circles and lines with
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I did my maths GCSE in the mid 90s and there was just maths. I always thought arithmetic was just an old fashioned name for maths.orraloon said:
Old geezer Q: when I were at school doing O-grades (Écosse innit) there were separate exams for Arithmetic and Mathematics. I was good (A before the days of ** inflation) at former, not so much at latter. Is maths just one thing now?
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From memory (🤔 old geezer = forget stuff) the arithmetic was the sums, straightforward logic type stuff, the kind of things kidz need to handle their finances, while maths was cos, tan, sin, differential equations etcmonkimark said:I did my maths GCSE in the mid 90s and there was just maths. I always thought arithmetic was just an old fashioned name for maths.
orraloon said:Old geezer Q: when I were at school doing O-grades (Écosse innit) there were separate exams for Arithmetic and Mathematics. I was good (A before the days of ** inflation) at former, not so much at latter. Is maths just one thing now?
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A lot of the "Govian" curriculum is pretty hard for old millenials/Gen-Z. Very different from what we were taught and a few things that were A-Level for us are now at GCSE.
Anyway, Rishi can natter all he wants but it's the start of the Summer Term today and there are 1359 jobs for Maths Teachers on TES today...
https://www.tes.com/jobs/search?siteCountry=gb&keywords=Maths
...So it's meaningless anyway.
Edit - and bear in mind that is the expensive one, the free one will have even more...
and that may just be England, not Scotland or Wales...We're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
- @ddraver0 -
Can confirm that verbal reasoning of mathematical problems is very much part of the maths syllabus for junior and secondary school.Pross said:
I think the way the questions are worded are what tends to stump the 'O' level generation. I was in the second year to do GCSEs (actually I took maths early so was in the first year) and the past papers we had would have just asked a straight out question rather than the odd scenario given in this example. As seen from the replies above people get caught out by the wording as much as the actual maths and its debatable whether verbal reasoning should be part of a maths exam. You would presumably still get fairly decent marks for the question by showing your workings and demonstrating you understand the process though.rick_chasey said:
On the maths unit in my HNC we were taught integration with straight numbers but no 'real-world' examples, wethen got a question in an exam about calculating the area of an annulus. I couldn't answer as I didn't know what an annulus was!1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
I did maths from age 4 until I was 16. 9 years was plenty, thanks.
(Stolen)2020/2021/2022 Metric Century Challenge Winner0 -
I do like: There are 10 types of people in the world. Those that understand binary and those that don't.carbonclem said:I did maths from age 4 until I was 16. 9 years was plenty, thanks.
(Stolen)0 -
It was just maths when I was in school in the 80s but my younger daughter did maths and numeracy split much like your experience. I can’t remember if the elder daughter did the same.orraloon said:Old geezer Q: when I were at school doing O-grades (Écosse innit) there were separate exams for Arithmetic and Mathematics. I was good (A before the days of ** inflation) at former, not so much at latter. Is maths just one thing now?
My younger daughter really struggled with maths as she has a diagnosis of mild dyscaculia (as well as dyslexia). I used to try to help her with her homework but it was frustrating for us both, I’ve got a lot of respect for maths teachers as it is hard to explain to someone who doesn’t just ‘get it’ but teaching methods are also so different to how I was taught.0 -
feels like a desperate appeal to the gammons, reading, riting, rithmatic. beat them into the plebs
though perhaps if brexiters had been better at basic arithmetic, they'd have realised the idiocy of their position
today i used the opportunity to tell one of our sales chaps that a customer request was equivalent to identifying a point within each member of a set of conical frusta, took a while, but i couldn't resist the challenge, and once he twigged, he saw it really was the simplest way to define things
maths, it's almost as good as physicsmy bike - faster than god's and twice as shiny0 -
It is a shame that the level of political debate in the country gets us to the point where an initiative to improve the nation's maths skills can be dismissed as populism, but I guess that's where we are!sungod said:feels like a desperate appeal to the gammons, reading, riting, rithmatic. beat them into the plebs
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I'm even older. When I did it Arithmetic covered what basic calculators now do. Possibly geometry. Maths was trig, Pythagorus (geometry?) etc and moved to equations.orraloon said:
From memory (🤔 old geezer = forget stuff) the arithmetic was the sums, straightforward logic type stuff, the kind of things kidz need to handle their finances, while maths was cos, tan, sin, differential equations etcmonkimark said:I did my maths GCSE in the mid 90s and there was just maths. I always thought arithmetic was just an old fashioned name for maths.
orraloon said:Old geezer Q: when I were at school doing O-grades (Écosse innit) there were separate exams for Arithmetic and Mathematics. I was good (A before the days of ** inflation) at former, not so much at latter. Is maths just one thing now?
Calculus etc was higher grade stuff.The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
I am not sure. You have no chance.Veronese68 wrote:PB is the most sensible person on here.0 -
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You had slide rules?briantrumpet said:Log tables, slide rules, no calculators for O Level.
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I was always impressed how many significant places you could get with even a 6" one (snarff, snarff)secretsqirrel said:
You had slide rules?briantrumpet said:Log tables, slide rules, no calculators for O Level.
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I didn’t have one in my geometry tin.briantrumpet said:
I was always impressed how many significant places you could get with even a 6" one (snarff, snarff)secretsqirrel said:
You had slide rules?briantrumpet said:Log tables, slide rules, no calculators for O Level.
Don’t you mean fnar fnar, oh word professor.0 -
Likely because the announcement says sweet FA about the practicalities of how it is to be achieved. He may as well day free unicorns for all...wallace_and_gromit said:
It is a shame that the level of political debate in the country gets us to the point where an initiative to improve the nation's maths skills can be dismissed as populism, but I guess that's where we are!sungod said:feels like a desperate appeal to the gammons, reading, riting, rithmatic. beat them into the plebs
We're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
- @ddraver0 -
secretsqirrel said:
I didn’t have one in my geometry tin.briantrumpet said:
I was always impressed how many significant places you could get with even a 6" one (snarff, snarff)secretsqirrel said:
You had slide rules?briantrumpet said:Log tables, slide rules, no calculators for O Level.
Don’t you mean fnar fnar, oh word professor.
Not sure now.
https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Snarff0 -
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Fair point, but the description above was “an appeal to the gammons” which feels a little short of practical points!ddraver said:
Likely because the announcement says sweet FA about the practicalities of how it is to be achieved. He may as well day free unicorns for all...wallace_and_gromit said:
It is a shame that the level of political debate in the country gets us to the point where an initiative to improve the nation's maths skills can be dismissed as populism, but I guess that's where we are!sungod said:feels like a desperate appeal to the gammons, reading, riting, rithmatic. beat them into the plebs
If Sunak rebadged it as a medium term aspiration combined with training more maths teachers then it would be hard to argue against.
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A bit difficult to train more teachers without paying for it when they can't recruit enough as it is and the current ones are going on strike.
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It's an announcement rather than an initiative. There's not more maths teachers.wallace_and_gromit said:
It is a shame that the level of political debate in the country gets us to the point where an initiative to improve the nation's maths skills can be dismissed as populism, but I guess that's where we are!sungod said:feels like a desperate appeal to the gammons, reading, riting, rithmatic. beat them into the plebs
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It's an announcement that they are going to force students to study something that they are not interested in. That's going to end well...kingstongraham said:
It's an announcement rather than an initiative. There's not more maths teachers.wallace_and_gromit said:
It is a shame that the level of political debate in the country gets us to the point where an initiative to improve the nation's maths skills can be dismissed as populism, but I guess that's where we are!sungod said:feels like a desperate appeal to the gammons, reading, riting, rithmatic. beat them into the plebs
The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
I am not sure. You have no chance.Veronese68 wrote:PB is the most sensible person on here.0 -
I had forgotten about the Log table book - I think it had an orange cover, definitely don't remember the inside I'm afraid.1
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When they can get some more teachers. I wonder if anyone's calculated when that will be without any new money.pblakeney said:
It's an announcement that they are going to force students to study something that they are not interested in. That's going to end well...kingstongraham said:
It's an announcement rather than an initiative. There's not more maths teachers.wallace_and_gromit said:
It is a shame that the level of political debate in the country gets us to the point where an initiative to improve the nation's maths skills can be dismissed as populism, but I guess that's where we are!sungod said:feels like a desperate appeal to the gammons, reading, riting, rithmatic. beat them into the plebs
If it was called "financial literacy" would anyone complain?0
