LEAVE the Conservative Party and save your country!
Comments
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Well in this instance yes I am explaining the phenomenon rather than proposing a solution.TheBigBean said:
I must have missed it then. I mostly see you complaining about boomers and saying that voting by age is more polarised.rick_chasey said:Sure I regularly do that.
It's more I don't think many people on here recognise either situation.0 -
Economically, yes.kingstongraham said:
Do you think people voted for Brexit thinking it would make them personally worse off? I don't know anyone personally who falls into that category.elbowloh said:
People didn't vote for Brexit for example because they thought they'd be better off.
All the evidence and all the experts were pretty much in agreement that we'd be worse off and all the talking heads and all the vox pops said it was worth it to get out of the EU and "sovereignty". I don't know anyone who voted for Brexit because they thought the economy would grow more outside the EU.0 -
elbowloh said:
Economically, yes.kingstongraham said:
Do you think people voted for Brexit thinking it would make them personally worse off? I don't know anyone personally who falls into that category.elbowloh said:
People didn't vote for Brexit for example because they thought they'd be better off.
All the evidence and all the experts were pretty much in agreement that we'd be worse off and all the talking heads and all the vox pops said it was worth it to get out of the EU and "sovereignty". I don't know anyone who voted for Brexit because they thought the economy would grow more outside the EU.
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"Us" being worse off is very different to "Me" being worse off. It's easy to say "there will be some pain", but that's very, very different to "I will lose money".elbowloh said:
Economically, yes.kingstongraham said:
Do you think people voted for Brexit thinking it would make them personally worse off? I don't know anyone personally who falls into that category.elbowloh said:
People didn't vote for Brexit for example because they thought they'd be better off.
All the evidence and all the experts were pretty much in agreement that we'd be worse off and all the talking heads and all the vox pops said it was worth it to get out of the EU and "sovereignty". I don't know anyone who voted for Brexit because they thought the economy would grow more outside the EU.
I think most people thought it would be personally neutral.0 -
Who the fuck are the UKIP voting remainers?rick_chasey said:elbowloh said:
Economically, yes.kingstongraham said:
Do you think people voted for Brexit thinking it would make them personally worse off? I don't know anyone personally who falls into that category.elbowloh said:
People didn't vote for Brexit for example because they thought they'd be better off.
All the evidence and all the experts were pretty much in agreement that we'd be worse off and all the talking heads and all the vox pops said it was worth it to get out of the EU and "sovereignty". I don't know anyone who voted for Brexit because they thought the economy would grow more outside the EU.0 -
Like is said, they didn't think they'd be better off.kingstongraham said:
"Us" being worse off is very different to "Me" being worse off. It's easy to say "there will be some pain", but that's very, very different to "I will lose money".elbowloh said:
Economically, yes.kingstongraham said:
Do you think people voted for Brexit thinking it would make them personally worse off? I don't know anyone personally who falls into that category.elbowloh said:
People didn't vote for Brexit for example because they thought they'd be better off.
All the evidence and all the experts were pretty much in agreement that we'd be worse off and all the talking heads and all the vox pops said it was worth it to get out of the EU and "sovereignty". I don't know anyone who voted for Brexit because they thought the economy would grow more outside the EU.
I think most people thought it would be personally neutral.
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You didn't expect them to be the brightest buttons surely?morstar said:
Who the censored are the UKIP voting remainers?rick_chasey said:elbowloh said:
Economically, yes.kingstongraham said:
Do you think people voted for Brexit thinking it would make them personally worse off? I don't know anyone personally who falls into that category.elbowloh said:
People didn't vote for Brexit for example because they thought they'd be better off.
All the evidence and all the experts were pretty much in agreement that we'd be worse off and all the talking heads and all the vox pops said it was worth it to get out of the EU and "sovereignty". I don't know anyone who voted for Brexit because they thought the economy would grow more outside the EU.0 -
Quite "help" rather than help.orraloon said:
Don't see that as "help", more like add some fuel to the fire in progress.elbowloh said:
Yeah, i heard that too.kingstongraham said:Sarah Vine has decided to "help" Johnson by saying his £200k decoration is fine because he "can't be expected to live in a skip".
I think people forget that the £58k is on top of the £30k that is already allocated for redecorating / furnishing the flat. All the stuff in the flat couldn't have been more an a couple or years old anyway and John Lewis furnishings are probably out of the range of the majority of the population as it is.
It would be extra funny if he did all that, got it finished after a year if work on the place and then had to move out leaving it all behind and only taking the debt.0 -
Or Lib Dem Leavers?morstar said:
Who the censored are the UKIP voting remainers?rick_chasey said:elbowloh said:
Economically, yes.kingstongraham said:
Do you think people voted for Brexit thinking it would make them personally worse off? I don't know anyone personally who falls into that category.elbowloh said:
People didn't vote for Brexit for example because they thought they'd be better off.
All the evidence and all the experts were pretty much in agreement that we'd be worse off and all the talking heads and all the vox pops said it was worth it to get out of the EU and "sovereignty". I don't know anyone who voted for Brexit because they thought the economy would grow more outside the EU.1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
This is a joke innit...
Every Brexiter voted for it thinking they'd be better off (bus?).
When it became clear they wouldn't be, all of a sudden it wasn't about being better off any more.
I'll grudgingly give Cummings credit, it was a neat trick.We're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
- @ddraver0 -
THat money was for the NHS, not to go in an individuals pocket (unless you had an inside line on NHS contracts maybe...).ddraver said:This is a joke innit...
Every Brexiter voted for it thinking they'd be better off (bus?).
When it became clear they wouldn't be, all of a sudden it wasn't about being better off any more.
I'll grudgingly give Cummings credit, it was a neat trick.0 -
More seriously, while those tables are useful, I think they mask a lot of complexity, which in turn leads to people thinking that there are simple solutions to the problems that these tables describe.ddraver said:This is a joke innit...
Every Brexiter voted for it thinking they'd be better off (bus?).
When it became clear they wouldn't be, all of a sudden it wasn't about being better off any more.
I'll grudgingly give Cummings credit, it was a neat trick.1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
If there is one thing we have learnt in the last 5 years it is that the average person has no idea what GDP is, so has even less idea of the implications of it’s rate of growth and from there the ramifications for themselves.
I am with Raver that they voted to be better off through things such as less immigrants and stop giving £18bn of their money to Brussels.0 -
Didn't realise the Tories hadn't appointed an advisor of ministerial standards after the guy they had in the role quit after BoJo wouldn't sack Patel for bullying.
You wonder if the party had someone capable in that role whether BoJo would have screwed up on this stuff.0 -
I can't work out how he claims to have been laser focused on the country's priorities 24 hours a day 7 days a week while also deciding to go through a year long extensive refurbishment of his temporary accommodation that he couldn't afford. Even if you aren't involved in choosing the terrible wallpaper, it's a faff to live through.0
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where in the order of events would he have intervened?rick_chasey said:Didn't realise the Tories hadn't appointed an advisor of ministerial standards after the guy they had in the role quit after BoJo wouldn't sack Patel for bullying.
You wonder if the party had someone capable in that role whether BoJo would have screwed up on this stuff.
the story is that he does not have the balls to make difficult decisions which means he gets presented with an invoice that he can not pay0 -
it shows remarkable lack of awareness o her part that she thinks she will be there long enough to benefit from the 12 months of hasslekingstongraham said:I can't work out how he claims to have been laser focused on the country's priorities 24 hours a day 7 days a week while also deciding to go through a year long extensive refurbishment of his temporary accommodation that he couldn't afford. Even if you aren't involved in choosing the terrible wallpaper, it's a faff to live through.
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"Why the f*ck are you getting someone to pay for your flat refurb you moron" at that point.surrey_commuter said:
where in the order of events would he have intervened?rick_chasey said:Didn't realise the Tories hadn't appointed an advisor of ministerial standards after the guy they had in the role quit after BoJo wouldn't sack Patel for bullying.
You wonder if the party had someone capable in that role whether BoJo would have screwed up on this stuff.
the story is that he does not have the balls to make difficult decisions which means he gets presented with an invoice that he can not pay
It's quite clear what's happened now - he got a mate or mates to help pay for the flat refurb - new advisors turn up, realise what a f*ck up it is, get him to at least fork out the money himself and pay the mates back.
That way he's "covered" the cost. But presumably, as the reporting suggests it was the advisors who noted this problem, BoJo would have just let the mates pay for it and not declared it.
I mean, it's not like the refurb wasn't massively reported on - Telegraph was regularly dropping stories about how he's moaning he's broke.0 -
He should probably just borrow a few million in the way that Blair did.0
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She's had his kid despite all his prior behaviour and she's engaged to him - that ship has long sailed.surrey_commuter said:
it shows remarkable lack of awareness o her part that she thinks she will be there long enough to benefit from the 12 months of hasslekingstongraham said:I can't work out how he claims to have been laser focused on the country's priorities 24 hours a day 7 days a week while also deciding to go through a year long extensive refurbishment of his temporary accommodation that he couldn't afford. Even if you aren't involved in choosing the terrible wallpaper, it's a faff to live through.
Weirdly she's my age almost exactly. He's old enough to be her father.0 -
Was that cash for honours? I know Mandelson had to resign when he didn't declare a loan - and what Johnson wrote about that afterwards.TheBigBean said:He should probably just borrow a few million in the way that Blair did.
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Not sure whether to put this here or the Brexit thread - Arlene's stepping down on the 28th May as leader of the DUP and First Minister.0
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No, I think he just asked a bank for a few million, and they said yes on the basis he would write a book and repay them.kingstongraham said:
Was that cash for honours? I know Mandelson had to resign when he didn't declare a loan - and what Johnson wrote about that afterwards.TheBigBean said:He should probably just borrow a few million in the way that Blair did.
The only scandal was that people felt banks were being too generous and that they couldn't borrow millions in the same way.
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if you were on a secondment for between 3 months and 5 years how much effort would you put into doing up a company flat. And remember she could leave before him or with him.rick_chasey said:
She's had his kid despite all his prior behaviour and she's engaged to him - that ship has long sailed.surrey_commuter said:
it shows remarkable lack of awareness o her part that she thinks she will be there long enough to benefit from the 12 months of hasslekingstongraham said:I can't work out how he claims to have been laser focused on the country's priorities 24 hours a day 7 days a week while also deciding to go through a year long extensive refurbishment of his temporary accommodation that he couldn't afford. Even if you aren't involved in choosing the terrible wallpaper, it's a faff to live through.
Weirdly she's my age almost exactly. He's old enough to be her father.0 -
Depends if I'm paying for it or not, right?surrey_commuter said:
if you were on a secondment for between 3 months and 5 years how much effort would you put into doing up a company flat. And remember she could leave before him or with him.rick_chasey said:
She's had his kid despite all his prior behaviour and she's engaged to him - that ship has long sailed.surrey_commuter said:
it shows remarkable lack of awareness o her part that she thinks she will be there long enough to benefit from the 12 months of hasslekingstongraham said:I can't work out how he claims to have been laser focused on the country's priorities 24 hours a day 7 days a week while also deciding to go through a year long extensive refurbishment of his temporary accommodation that he couldn't afford. Even if you aren't involved in choosing the terrible wallpaper, it's a faff to live through.
Weirdly she's my age almost exactly. He's old enough to be her father.
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surely that has always been the case, it is just that the media is no longer owned by the right sort of chap so gets reported.ddraver said:Cash for honours now being entirely normal obvs...
Intrigued by how much cash anybody on here would pay for an honour?
For me a title would be a £100 for a laugh but a seat in the HoL at £300 a day is worth a few quid so that would be worth buying for £100k. I am assuming no ore than 10 year payback in case of abolition etc0 -
Well then yes - Johnson should have borrowed it from a bank on the basis of expected future earnings if he couldn't afford something he wanted. But that would presume he was actually always intending to pay it back.TheBigBean said:
No, I think he just asked a bank for a few million, and they said yes on the basis he would write a book and repay them.kingstongraham said:
Was that cash for honours? I know Mandelson had to resign when he didn't declare a loan - and what Johnson wrote about that afterwards.TheBigBean said:He should probably just borrow a few million in the way that Blair did.
The only scandal was that people felt banks were being too generous and that they couldn't borrow millions in the same way.
After Mandelson resigned for something quite similar, this was Johnson's column:
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Would it be illegal to write that now?kingstongraham said:
Well then yes - Johnson should have borrowed it from a bank on the basis of expected future earnings if he couldn't afford something he wanted. But that would presume he was actually always intending to pay it back.TheBigBean said:
No, I think he just asked a bank for a few million, and they said yes on the basis he would write a book and repay them.kingstongraham said:
Was that cash for honours? I know Mandelson had to resign when he didn't declare a loan - and what Johnson wrote about that afterwards.TheBigBean said:He should probably just borrow a few million in the way that Blair did.
The only scandal was that people felt banks were being too generous and that they couldn't borrow millions in the same way.
After Mandelson resigned for something quite similar, this was Johnson's column:0
