LEAVE the Conservative Party and save your country!

11291301321341351135

Comments

  • TheBigBean
    TheBigBean Posts: 22,079
    edited April 2021

    "I'll help the country in a dubiously useful way but it'll be really good publicity, but we won't help it by paying tax"

    Got it.

    You don't understand it.
    I totally understand it. He’s a tax exile but wants to help without getting a big tax smack.
    So you missed the bit about it not being his tax position? You missed the bit about it affecting his staff that live in Singapore and who were offering to fly to the UK in the middle of a panic (not something everyone would do) and didn't fancy paying UK tax on their Singapore earnings?

    Do you think every time there is a natural disaster all the people that go there to help should be taxed in the country they are helping?

    Would you be happy to pay income tax in Italy if you go there on a two week holiday? Or do you want to avoid getting a "big tax smack"?



  • rjsterry
    rjsterry Posts: 29,895

    "I'll help the country in a dubiously useful way but it'll be really good publicity, but we won't help it by paying tax"

    Got it.

    You don't understand it.
    I totally understand it. He’s a tax exile but wants to help without getting a big tax smack.
    So you missed the bit about it not being his tax position? You missed the bit about it affecting his staff that live in Singapore and who were offering to fly to the UK in the middle of a panic (not something anyone would do) and didn't fancy paying UK tax on their Singapore earnings?

    Do you think every time there is a natural disaster all the people that go there to help should be taxed in the country they are helping?

    Would you be happy to pay income tax in Italy if you go there on a two week holiday? Or do you want to avoid getting a "big tax smack"?



    You wouldn't be earning if you were on holiday, but again why text the prime minister (who almost certainly would give you a misleading answer) rather than check with your own tax adviser?
    1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
    Pinnacle Monzonite

    Part of the anti-growth coalition
  • TheBigBean
    TheBigBean Posts: 22,079
    rjsterry said:

    "I'll help the country in a dubiously useful way but it'll be really good publicity, but we won't help it by paying tax"

    Got it.

    You don't understand it.
    I totally understand it. He’s a tax exile but wants to help without getting a big tax smack.
    So you missed the bit about it not being his tax position? You missed the bit about it affecting his staff that live in Singapore and who were offering to fly to the UK in the middle of a panic (not something anyone would do) and didn't fancy paying UK tax on their Singapore earnings?

    Do you think every time there is a natural disaster all the people that go there to help should be taxed in the country they are helping?

    Would you be happy to pay income tax in Italy if you go there on a two week holiday? Or do you want to avoid getting a "big tax smack"?



    You wouldn't be earning if you were on holiday, but again why text the prime minister (who almost certainly would give you a misleading answer) rather than check with your own tax adviser?
    Because a tax advisor doesn't have the power to change the law.

    It's not about where you earn, it's about how long you spend in a country.

  • pinkbikini
    pinkbikini Posts: 876

    "I'll help the country in a dubiously useful way but it'll be really good publicity, but we won't help it by paying tax"

    Got it.

    You don't understand it.
    I totally understand it. He’s a tax exile but wants to help without getting a big tax smack.
    So you missed the bit about it not being his tax position? You missed the bit about it affecting his staff that live in Singapore and who were offering to fly to the UK in the middle of a panic (not something anyone would do) and didn't fancy paying UK tax on their Singapore earnings?

    Do you think every time there is a natural disaster all the people that go there to help should be taxed in the country they are helping?

    Would you be happy to pay income tax in Italy if you go there on a two week holiday? Or do you want to avoid getting a "big tax smack"?



    Definitely should not be worried about tax when offering help in a pandemic. Definitely don’t need to contact the PM to confirm this either. Spaffer should have directly referred to appropriate dept, but he doesn’t do much that’s appropriate (nor does Dyson, IMO).

    Ridiculous that this is news at the moment though - there’s Brexit-style footie news that surely takes priority?
  • TheBigBean
    TheBigBean Posts: 22,079
    It's also perfectly normal to want HMRC to agree something in advance. Tax advisors advise on the best way to go about it. It's useful to be able to text HMRC's boss.
  • pblakeney
    pblakeney Posts: 27,595



    Would you be happy to pay income tax in Italy if you go there on a two week holiday? Or do you want to avoid getting a "big tax smack"?

    Ahem, Italy has a tourist tax so he would be paying tax on holiday.
    The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
    I am not sure. You have no chance.
    Veronese68 wrote:
    PB is the most sensible person on here.
  • TheBigBean
    TheBigBean Posts: 22,079
    pblakeney said:



    Would you be happy to pay income tax in Italy if you go there on a two week holiday? Or do you want to avoid getting a "big tax smack"?

    Ahem, Italy has a tourist tax so he would be paying tax on holiday.
    Did you miss the word "income" before tax?
  • rjsterry
    rjsterry Posts: 29,895
    edited April 2021

    rjsterry said:

    "I'll help the country in a dubiously useful way but it'll be really good publicity, but we won't help it by paying tax"

    Got it.

    You don't understand it.
    I totally understand it. He’s a tax exile but wants to help without getting a big tax smack.
    So you missed the bit about it not being his tax position? You missed the bit about it affecting his staff that live in Singapore and who were offering to fly to the UK in the middle of a panic (not something anyone would do) and didn't fancy paying UK tax on their Singapore earnings?

    Do you think every time there is a natural disaster all the people that go there to help should be taxed in the country they are helping?

    Would you be happy to pay income tax in Italy if you go there on a two week holiday? Or do you want to avoid getting a "big tax smack"?



    You wouldn't be earning if you were on holiday, but again why text the prime minister (who almost certainly would give you a misleading answer) rather than check with your own tax adviser?
    Because a tax advisor doesn't have the power to change the law.

    It's not about where you earn, it's about how long you spend in a country.

    Neither does the PM on a whim. You mentioned 2 weeks not 6 months.
    1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
    Pinnacle Monzonite

    Part of the anti-growth coalition
  • pblakeney
    pblakeney Posts: 27,595

    pblakeney said:



    Would you be happy to pay income tax in Italy if you go there on a two week holiday? Or do you want to avoid getting a "big tax smack"?

    Ahem, Italy has a tourist tax so he would be paying tax on holiday.
    Did you miss the word "income" before tax?
    I earn zero while on holiday, so no.
    The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
    I am not sure. You have no chance.
    Veronese68 wrote:
    PB is the most sensible person on here.
  • TheBigBean
    TheBigBean Posts: 22,079
    I don't have the energy.
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,660

    "I'll help the country in a dubiously useful way but it'll be really good publicity, but we won't help it by paying tax"

    Got it.

    You don't understand it.
    I totally understand it. He’s a tax exile but wants to help without getting a big tax smack.
    So you missed the bit about it not being his tax position? You missed the bit about it affecting his staff that live in Singapore and who were offering to fly to the UK in the middle of a panic (not something everyone would do) and didn't fancy paying UK tax on their Singapore earnings?

    Do you think every time there is a natural disaster all the people that go there to help should be taxed in the country they are helping?

    Would you be happy to pay income tax in Italy if you go there on a two week holiday? Or do you want to avoid getting a "big tax smack"?



    It’s a holiday so I’m not earning.

    If he wants his staff to contribute to the UK they can work here.

    I’d love to move to Singapore live there for just over 6 months and get my boss to text the PM so I can return to work here tax free.

    He should not get special treatment because he can text the PM. He’s not even resident in the country.

    If he’s that keen on helping and his staff won’t move to the UK because of the tax, he can compensate his staff with the equivalent tax bill.

    Plenty of firms do that for secondments to higher tax locations than where they normally work. Hell, even my old firm did that when we had a18 month long secondee from Texas.
  • rjsterry
    rjsterry Posts: 29,895
    edited April 2021

    It's also perfectly normal to want HMRC to agree something in advance. Tax advisors advise on the best way to go about it. It's useful to be able to text HMRC's boss.

    That would have at least made some sense, but he's not Boris Johnson.
    1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
    Pinnacle Monzonite

    Part of the anti-growth coalition
  • orraloon
    orraloon Posts: 13,299

  • TheBigBean
    TheBigBean Posts: 22,079
    rjsterry said:

    It's also perfectly normal to want HMRC to agree something in advance. Tax advisors advise on the best way to go about it. It's useful to be able to text HMRC's boss.

    That would have at least made some sense, but he's not Boris Johnson.
    He wrote to the Treasury, but received no reply. He therefore texted Boris to explain the problem. Boris spoke to Rishi who solved the problem for all workers coming to the UK to provide specialist skills during the pandemic.

    You are making this really hard work.
  • Dorset_Boy
    Dorset_Boy Posts: 7,623

    "I'll help the country in a dubiously useful way but it'll be really good publicity, but we won't help it by paying tax"

    Got it.

    You don't understand it.
    I totally understand it. He’s a tax exile but wants to help without getting a big tax smack.
    I don't think James Dyson is a tax exile, unless you call paying in excess of £100 million pa in UK tax as being an exile.
    He moved his company, but not himself.

    Still, nothing like letting the truth get in the way of your agenda.....
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,660
    edited April 2021

    "I'll help the country in a dubiously useful way but it'll be really good publicity, but we won't help it by paying tax"

    Got it.

    You don't understand it.
    I totally understand it. He’s a tax exile but wants to help without getting a big tax smack.
    I don't think James Dyson is a tax exile, unless you call paying in excess of £100 million pa in UK tax as being an exile.
    He moved his company, but not himself.

    Still, nothing like letting the truth get in the way of your agenda.....
    He moves his firm to singers and now that he wants a bunch of them to work in the UK for a bit he doesn’t want to cough up the tax to keep their net income the same.

    That’s standard practice for secondments etc. My own firms do this.


    Anyway, that isn’t why this is an issue. The issue is that he gets special treatment because he has BoJo’s phone number.

    (Why do you always respond to my first post and ignore the subsequent explanation?)
  • john80
    john80 Posts: 2,965
    rjsterry said:

    "I'll help the country in a dubiously useful way but it'll be really good publicity, but we won't help it by paying tax"

    Got it.

    You don't understand it.
    I totally understand it. He’s a tax exile but wants to help without getting a big tax smack.
    So you missed the bit about it not being his tax position? You missed the bit about it affecting his staff that live in Singapore and who were offering to fly to the UK in the middle of a panic (not something anyone would do) and didn't fancy paying UK tax on their Singapore earnings?

    Do you think every time there is a natural disaster all the people that go there to help should be taxed in the country they are helping?

    Would you be happy to pay income tax in Italy if you go there on a two week holiday? Or do you want to avoid getting a "big tax smack"?



    You wouldn't be earning if you were on holiday, but again why text the prime minister (who almost certainly would give you a misleading answer) rather than check with your own tax adviser?
    Does your pay stop when you go on holiday. That is some employee contract you have got.
  • john80
    john80 Posts: 2,965

    "I'll help the country in a dubiously useful way but it'll be really good publicity, but we won't help it by paying tax"

    Got it.

    You don't understand it.
    I totally understand it. He’s a tax exile but wants to help without getting a big tax smack.
    I don't think James Dyson is a tax exile, unless you call paying in excess of £100 million pa in UK tax as being an exile.
    He moved his company, but not himself.

    Still, nothing like letting the truth get in the way of your agenda.....
    He moves his firm to singers and now that he wants a bunch of them to work in the UK for a bit he doesn’t want to cough up the tax to keep their net income the same.

    That’s standard practice for secondments etc. My own firms do this.


    Anyway, that isn’t why this is an issue. The issue is that he gets special treatment because he has BoJo’s phone number.

    (Why do you always respond to my first post and ignore the subsequent explanation?)
    I am not being funny but if Kier thought this was the best example of corruption he could come up with against the Tories he needs to give his researchers a slap. It would appear that Dyson spent some money coming up with a product and then the government did not place an order costing him 20 million. He seems to be just asking for clarity on local taxes that might be paid by his staff and hurt them financially. Banging on about this stuff is likely to have missed the bigger picture I think.
  • pblakeney
    pblakeney Posts: 27,595
    edited April 2021
    john80 said:

    rjsterry said:

    "I'll help the country in a dubiously useful way but it'll be really good publicity, but we won't help it by paying tax"

    Got it.

    You don't understand it.
    I totally understand it. He’s a tax exile but wants to help without getting a big tax smack.
    So you missed the bit about it not being his tax position? You missed the bit about it affecting his staff that live in Singapore and who were offering to fly to the UK in the middle of a panic (not something anyone would do) and didn't fancy paying UK tax on their Singapore earnings?

    Do you think every time there is a natural disaster all the people that go there to help should be taxed in the country they are helping?

    Would you be happy to pay income tax in Italy if you go there on a two week holiday? Or do you want to avoid getting a "big tax smack"?



    You wouldn't be earning if you were on holiday, but again why text the prime minister (who almost certainly would give you a misleading answer) rather than check with your own tax adviser?
    Does your pay stop when you go on holiday. That is some employee contract you have got.
    Mine does. Are you aware that some people may have different circumstances than you? Are you aware that some people get paid by the hour? Some of them highly.
    Are you aware of the use of question marks? 😉
    The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
    I am not sure. You have no chance.
    Veronese68 wrote:
    PB is the most sensible person on here.
  • Dorset_Boy
    Dorset_Boy Posts: 7,623

    "I'll help the country in a dubiously useful way but it'll be really good publicity, but we won't help it by paying tax"

    Got it.

    You don't understand it.
    I totally understand it. He’s a tax exile but wants to help without getting a big tax smack.
    I don't think James Dyson is a tax exile, unless you call paying in excess of £100 million pa in UK tax as being an exile.
    He moved his company, but not himself.

    Still, nothing like letting the truth get in the way of your agenda.....
    He moves his firm to singers and now that he wants a bunch of them to work in the UK for a bit he doesn’t want to cough up the tax to keep their net income the same.

    That’s standard practice for secondments etc. My own firms do this.


    Anyway, that isn’t why this is an issue. The issue is that he gets special treatment because he has BoJo’s phone number.

    (Why do you always respond to my first post and ignore the subsequent explanation?)
    Oh FFS Rick. It was your penultimate post. The one in which you incorrectly (and deliberately) labelled James Dyson as a tax exile. HE ISN'T, and you were happy to perpetuate a lie and I have called you out on it.

    Perhaps if you can't explain yourself properly in your first post you should press the 'POST' button until you have made youself clearer.
  • Jezyboy
    Jezyboy Posts: 3,674
    john80 said:

    "I'll help the country in a dubiously useful way but it'll be really good publicity, but we won't help it by paying tax"

    Got it.

    You don't understand it.
    I totally understand it. He’s a tax exile but wants to help without getting a big tax smack.
    I don't think James Dyson is a tax exile, unless you call paying in excess of £100 million pa in UK tax as being an exile.
    He moved his company, but not himself.

    Still, nothing like letting the truth get in the way of your agenda.....
    He moves his firm to singers and now that he wants a bunch of them to work in the UK for a bit he doesn’t want to cough up the tax to keep their net income the same.

    That’s standard practice for secondments etc. My own firms do this.


    Anyway, that isn’t why this is an issue. The issue is that he gets special treatment because he has BoJo’s phone number.

    (Why do you always respond to my first post and ignore the subsequent explanation?)
    I am not being funny but if Kier thought this was the best example of corruption he could come up with against the Tories he needs to give his researchers a slap. It would appear that Dyson spent some money coming up with a product and then the government did not place an order costing him 20 million. He seems to be just asking for clarity on local taxes that might be paid by his staff and hurt them financially. Banging on about this stuff is likely to have missed the bigger picture I think.
    More not being funny here.

    If you set up half your business in the UK and half elsewhere, without being clear on the tax position of people working across the two locations, you aren't a great business man. If as an employer, you are not prepared to take on the tax liabilities arising from that, you're not that great.

    If you spend 20 million, with no real intention of making a product that complies with the medical need, write it off to R+D, get some money can't buy good press out of it, well then you are quite the marketing expert.

  • rjsterry
    rjsterry Posts: 29,895
    edited April 2021

    rjsterry said:

    It's also perfectly normal to want HMRC to agree something in advance. Tax advisors advise on the best way to go about it. It's useful to be able to text HMRC's boss.

    That would have at least made some sense, but he's not Boris Johnson.
    He wrote to the Treasury, but received no reply. He therefore texted Boris to explain the problem. Boris spoke to Rishi who solved the problem for all workers coming to the UK to provide specialist skills during the pandemic.

    You are making this really hard work.
    😁 I try. Just seems like an odd way to resolve what are in the scheme of things marginal differences in potential personal tax liabilities for his employees. And at the same time Dyson is bragging about having blown £20m on an aborted ventilator project and how he is not going to claim any of it back from the public purse. Sort of makes you wonder why he didn't just tell his staff he'd see them right if they were out of pocket.
    1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
    Pinnacle Monzonite

    Part of the anti-growth coalition
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,660
    john80 said:

    "I'll help the country in a dubiously useful way but it'll be really good publicity, but we won't help it by paying tax"

    Got it.

    You don't understand it.
    I totally understand it. He’s a tax exile but wants to help without getting a big tax smack.
    I don't think James Dyson is a tax exile, unless you call paying in excess of £100 million pa in UK tax as being an exile.
    He moved his company, but not himself.

    Still, nothing like letting the truth get in the way of your agenda.....
    He moves his firm to singers and now that he wants a bunch of them to work in the UK for a bit he doesn’t want to cough up the tax to keep their net income the same.

    That’s standard practice for secondments etc. My own firms do this.


    Anyway, that isn’t why this is an issue. The issue is that he gets special treatment because he has BoJo’s phone number.

    (Why do you always respond to my first post and ignore the subsequent explanation?)
    I am not being funny but if Kier thought this was the best example of corruption he could come up with against the Tories he needs to give his researchers a slap. It would appear that Dyson spent some money coming up with a product and then the government did not place an order costing him 20 million. He seems to be just asking for clarity on local taxes that might be paid by his staff and hurt them financially. Banging on about this stuff is likely to have missed the bigger picture I think.
    I mean, I don't think Starmer thinks this is the best example of corruption - he's not used the word either. There are much bigger fish currently in the fryer (Greensill, the endless monster pandemic related contracts to unqualified but connected peopel)

    I suspect it's a tactic for Starmer to make use of the *volume* of issues the Tories are facing with respect to lobbying and generally using their position in government to make favours for mates - which is what it mainly boils down to.

    If we take a step back, I think it's reasonable to say that lobbying is inevitable so there is no point trying to stamp it out. It's just not practical.

    You can however work hard to push it into the daylight, which I think is a much better way of running your affairs. You make the rules so that any kind of lobbying from any organisation, goes through a formal channel where it is recorded and up for public record.

    I don't think that's unreasonable. Cameron himself said it was a real blight on politics 10 years ago, and now he's caught up in his own lobbying scandal.

    In the same way I'm sure you wouldn't want a big trade union doing deals under the table with labour governments that are unfair, you wouldn't want big business getting special tax treatment because they've been big donors to the tory party and they have the PM's phone number.
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,660
    edited April 2021
    Doing a bit of research into the local elections coming up here in Cambridge.

    I'm voting for 4 (!) different elections, but just checking the country council voting - god this needs reform - check out the results.



    LDs get just under 5% more votes than the Tories but get almost 3x the amount of seats.

    and the election before:



    Labour get only 1.4% fewer votes than the LDs, yet they got one seat and LDs get 14.

    Mad.

    Might as well randomly generate which party gets what seats - it's about as representative.
  • elbowloh
    elbowloh Posts: 7,078

    Doing a bit of research into the local elections coming up here in Cambridge.

    I'm voting for 4 (!) different elections, but just checking the country council voting - god this needs reform - check out the results.



    LDs get just under 5% more votes than the Tories but get almost 3x the amount of seats.

    and the election before:



    Labour get only 1.4% fewer votes than the LDs, yet they got one seat and LDs get 14.

    Mad.

    Might as well randomly generate which party gets what seats - it's about as representative.

    Well no, it's who has the most votes in each district,l, so it's fair for each particular district, but doesn't seem as fair for the region as a whole.
    Felt F1 2014
    Felt Z6 2012
    Red Arthur Caygill steel frame
    Tall....
    www.seewildlife.co.uk
  • sungod
    sungod Posts: 17,496
    edited April 2021
    david37 said:

    rjsterry said:

    The Dyson/Johnson texts seem like a bit of a confected issue. Much as I think they are both twats, unless there's more to it, I think it's just a very rich Tory donor having the PM's phone number and trying to get some clarity, and the PM telling him what he needed to hear in an emergency.

    Isn't it a classic example of why the public has become a bit blasé about some of these matters. Journalists scream on Twitter and the like so frequently that the public treat it as crying wolf. Someone volunteers in a crisis to help out and doesn't want to be taxed on other income for their assistance.
    If you ask for tax breaks in return for helping out that isn't really volunteering, but yes, there's an element of that.
    they werent asking for tax breaks just that they werent penalised for helping since that help would have put them in a worse position. i.e. they would be taxed because they helped.

    seems fair enough

    asking to not pay tax that they otherwise would be liable for, is asking for a tax break

    in an emergency, one takes the necessary action and worries about trivia like money afterwards

    if the people concerned were at risk of genuine financial hardship if they got taxed, dyson could easily have told them he'd cover any excess cost himself if things couldn't be resolved later

    instead he asked johnson to give him special treatment not accessible to the typical uk taxpayer, and johnson cooperated, that stinks
    my bike - faster than god's and twice as shiny
  • TheBigBean
    TheBigBean Posts: 22,079
    In an emergency most people sit around waiting for someone else to solve the problem. That's what I did.

    Credit to anyone that actually did something for the benefit of others at their own risk. Happy for such people to not be burdened with a tax residency change on top.
  • orraloon
    orraloon Posts: 13,299
    What was it Dyson or his staff actually did?
  • surrey_commuter
    surrey_commuter Posts: 18,867
    orraloon said:

    What was it Dyson or his staff actually did?

    They thought they could make mechanical ventilators better than people who make mechanical ventilators, the MHRA did not agree.

    More specifically he (quite reasonably) asked for payback on his donations
  • pblakeney
    pblakeney Posts: 27,595
    Not sure whether to give BJ credit for at least being honest about environmental stuff being about money and not the environment.

    "Tackling climate change is about "growth and jobs" not "expensive bunny hugging", Boris Johnson has said.
    Speaking at a virtual summit, the prime minister told world leaders "we can build back better from this pandemic by building back greener."
    The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
    I am not sure. You have no chance.
    Veronese68 wrote:
    PB is the most sensible person on here.