European Champs Road Races

No_Ta_Doctor

DeadCalm wrote:

No tA Doctor wrote:

DeVlaeminck wrote:

When people say they don't want excitement created by mistakes why not? It's still up to opposition riders to put them in a situation where they have to make the call - it's part of racing it's not like they are told the course could go left and right and if they take the wrong turn it's a dead end.

Mistake was maybe the wrong word. It can be argued that Dumoulin made a mistake in not chasing Froome alone in the Giro - he made a decision to wait for Riechenbach which cost him time (personally I think he would have been cooked if he tried t go it alone, but that's another story). But there was a tactical decision, made on the road, with accurate information available.

If, for some strange reason (and I can put up a hypothetical scenario for you if you really want - again, think the Stolen Vuelta) he didn't know Froome had attacked and therefore just dawdled along then that's not a mistake, it's making the correct tactical decision based on faulty or missing information. I don't think that would be "exciting", I think that would be farcical.

I want to see riders make tactical decisions based on accurate information. Otherwise it *is* like not being told the course but taking a wrong turn to a dead end.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1985_Vuelta_a_Espa%C3%B1a

The 'stolen' Vuelta could almost certainly never happen these days with or without radios but, even so, not paying attention and allowing a rival to disappear so far up the road without noticing, that's pretty lame.

Firstly, Millar had punctured and had to chase back to the lead group. While he was chasing back, Delgado attacked. It was poor weather and visibility was low, riders may also have had race numbers covered up by rain gear. Delgado was 6 minutes behind him on GC, not a threat in any normal racing scenario.

rick_chasey

RichN95 wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

I still don’t see why riders can’t just be tuned into race radio and press a button or have some electronic signal that radios they have a mechanical.

What if they don't speak the language of race radio?

I say keep them and broadcast the interesting bits from the DS's end (which might show the public that the DSs aren't usually the ones making the tactical decisions).

I don’t disagree DS usually don’t make tactical decisions, but on occasions they do, and they have the wonderful benefit of having the lucidity advantage that comes with not having ridden the course.

I also think it would help the perception of riders being robots too.

I don’t have a huge amount of sympathy with riders who can’t understand the language (as in life) so I have no issue with that.

RichN95.

Rick Chasey wrote:

I don’t have a huge amount of sympathy with riders who can’t understand the language (as in life) so I have no issue with that.

How many languages do you expect them to speak? Dutch, French, Italian and Spanish would all be essentials.

rick_chasey

RichN95 wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

I don’t have a huge amount of sympathy with riders who can’t understand the language (as in life) so I have no issue with that.

How many languages do you expect them to speak? Dutch, French, Italian and Spanish would all be essentials.

So most race radios do English/French and local language AFIK

So take your pick.

If I wanted to be a pro Starcraft player id probably be having Korean lessons.

No_Ta_Doctor

Can someone remind what the point of any of this is again? What issue are we trying to solve?

rick_chasey

No tA Doctor wrote:

Can someone remind what the point of any of this is again? What issue are we trying to solve?

The perception that riders are mere robots who operate as puppets to the DS master.

RichN95.

Castroveijo is currently doing the TT in a skinsuit with the logos of three pro teams on it (Cofidis, Movistar and Sky). That has to be a first

bflk

Dowsett averaged 30.4mph on his ride this afternoon. A few Strava leaderboards getting re-written.

davidof

Alan Ha Ha wrote:

hanshotfirst wrote:

Anybody know what time the race is due to finish on Saturday? Gonna see if I can watch it and then get back through to Stirling to see that David Millar film at the Macrobert.

Also is there a start list?

It's Sunday.

Start lists are not published until 5pm the evening before.

WOMEN'S TIME TRIAL FINAL THURSDAY 8 AUGUST 2018 09:00 RIVERSIDE MUSEUM - GLASGOW GREEN Race distance 32.3Km

Two Irish riders ?

ShutupJens

When's the mens RR on do we know?

RichN95.

ShutupJens wrote:

When's the mens RR on do we know?

Sunday. It starts at 10.30. Scheduled finish at 2.30.

m.r.m.

Sunday

Pross

Cav is out of the men's road race on medical advice, Mark Christian replaces him in the team.

takethehighroad

Pross wrote:

Cav is out of the men's road race on medical advice, Mark Christian replaces him in the team.

Was the medical advice concern about his gluteus muscle.

"You'll get your arse kicked, Cav"

timoid.

No tA Doctor wrote:

Firstly, Millar had punctured and had to chase back to the lead group. While he was chasing back, Delgado attacked. It was poor weather and visibility was low, riders may also have had race numbers covered up by rain gear. Delgado was 6 minutes behind him on GC, not a threat in any normal racing scenario.

I think a moto had a big influence on Delgado's ability to create a gap.

Allegedly.

knedlicky

Timoid. wrote:

No tA Doctor wrote:

Firstly, Millar had punctured and had to chase back to the lead group. While he was chasing back, Delgado attacked. It was poor weather and visibility was low, riders may also have had race numbers covered up by rain gear. Delgado was 6 minutes behind him on GC, not a threat in any normal racing scenario.

I think a moto had a big influence on Delgado's ability to create a gap.
Allegedly.

No tA Doctor, although not sure about this, I think that Millar was back with the group shortly before Delgado made a break for it.

Timoid, Don't know if you're trolling because motos are topical, but as far as I recall, at the foot of the last climb, so after the last descent (where a moto tow could have been useful), Delgado was still only a little over a minute ahead of Millar. And a moto wouldn't have helped much on the ascent.

The mistake by Millar was to be so intent on watching Rodriguez and Cabestany; thus missing the chance to go in pursuit of Delgado with Caritoux and Kelly, his own tactical error. By the time his DS warned him of the possible outcome (when the gap had opened to over 5 mins), he didn't have the legs.
Radio then may have meant his DS sooner informed Millar of the risk, but if (as appears to be the consensus on this forum) it is still riders who decide tactics (although I'm not so sure about that opinion), who knows if Millar would have reacted differently.

The other assertion, that the peloton was against Millar, is also not true from what I've read – apparently the Italian team Brianzoli (Baronchelli) did offer to help in a chase, but Peugeot's own captain de la route, Duclos-Lassalle, turned the offer down for whatever reason.
I understood the only teams clearly not willing to help Millar were Teka for some reason (even though it meant their rider Dietzen fell from 5th to 7th as a result), and Kelme (because their rider Recio was out front with Delgado).
I wonder how Millar and Duclos-Lassalle have since got on.

Alan Ha Ha

Back on topic

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No_Ta_Doctor

So GVA the big favourite then?

DeadCalm

No tA Doctor wrote:

So GVA the big favourite then?

Not Sagan?

No_Ta_Doctor

DeadCalm wrote:

No tA Doctor wrote:

So GVA the big favourite then?

Not Sagan?

Sagan's past it, over the hill, finished.*














*Damn, knew I'd forgotten someone big

adr82

It is p*ssing down here. Stayed out long enough to watch a couple of laps but have retreated indoors for a while. Glad I am not one of the poor guys trying to race. Thoroughly miserable day. Some unfortunate Romanian was about 5 mins off the back alone by the 2nd or 3rd lap, guess he had a mechanical early on.

larkim

Just a Noddy question - what bikes do the riders use in these champs? The bikes they ride for their Pro team, their "own" bike or one provided by their national squad?

r0bh

larkim wrote:

Just a Noddy question - what bikes do the riders use in these champs? The bikes they ride for their Pro team, their "own" bike or one provided by their national squad?

Their normal pro team bike. Although I was just thinking when the Italian guy was getting a wheel change how the mechanics deal with everyone riding on potentially different set ups. Guess most are on Shimano 11 speed anyway

gsk82

Why are they doing 16 laps of a city centre? Why not do 150km in that countryside then 5 laps in the city and actually make the place look appealing?

adr82

gsk82 wrote:

Why are they doing 16 laps of a city centre? Why not do 150km in that countryside then 5 laps in the city and actually make the place look appealing?

It's the same course they used for the Nationals in 2013 and the Commonwealth Games in 2014, so not too surprising they'd go with exactly the same again when they know all the arrangements have gone smoothly a couple of times already. It is a pity though, there are some decent climbs not far from the city that would have provided some more interesting scenery (although not on a day like this!).

larkim

r0bh wrote:

larkim wrote:

Just a Noddy question - what bikes do the riders use in these champs? The bikes they ride for their Pro team, their "own" bike or one provided by their national squad?

Their normal pro team bike. Although I was just thinking when the Italian guy was getting a wheel change how the mechanics deal with everyone riding on potentially different set ups. Guess most are on Shimano 11 speed anyway

That's what I thought. Could be more anomalies with some discs, some rim with the odd SRAM thrown in for good measure.

gsk82

adr82 wrote:

gsk82 wrote:

Why are they doing 16 laps of a city centre? Why not do 150km in that countryside then 5 laps in the city and actually make the place look appealing?

It's the same course they used for the Nationals in 2013 and the Commonwealth Games in 2014, so not too surprising they'd go with exactly the same again when they know all the arrangements have gone smoothly a couple of times already. It is a pity though, there are some decent climbs not far from the city that would have provided some more interesting scenery (although not on a day like this!).

It looks about as unenjoyable as bike riding can be

topper_harley

gsk82 wrote:

Why are they doing 16 laps of a city centre? Why not do 150km in that countryside then 5 laps in the city and actually make the place look appealing?

They could have easily done the crow road the the dukes pass and maybe the Tak then some city centre laps

dabber

gsk82 wrote:

adr82 wrote:

gsk82 wrote:

Why are they doing 16 laps of a city centre? Why not do 150km in that countryside then 5 laps in the city and actually make the place look appealing?

It's the same course they used for the Nationals in 2013 and the Commonwealth Games in 2014, so not too surprising they'd go with exactly the same again when they know all the arrangements have gone smoothly a couple of times already. It is a pity though, there are some decent climbs not far from the city that would have provided some more interesting scenery (although not on a day like this!).

It looks about as unenjoyable as bike riding can be

A regular yawnfest, if they wanted to use a crap route like this they should have halved the distance.

No_Ta_Doctor

At least the coverage has added some exciting games to play. This is how to make road cycling more interesting: a quick round of "Guess the rides in the break" followed by a "What's the time-gap?" sweepstake.