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What's the deal with Cav?

curiumcurium Posts: 815
edited July 2018 in Pro race
I know there are a bunch of sprinters in the peloton that never feature but I kind of feel embarrassed for Cav now because he's always being asked about the 4 wins he needs to tie the record for most wins and yet with every stage that passes it feels like they're taunting him by even asking it. He's barely sneaking into the top 10 on sprint stages and he's only going to get slower.

I know he's had a rough spring with a number of bad crashes but who goes to THE TOUR for the training miles?

Should he just retire?
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  • cougiecougie Posts: 22,512
    A lot of people were saying the same in 2016 and he got four stages that year. He's not past it yet.
  • dolan_driverdolan_driver Posts: 836
    He sounded fairly pessimistic about things in the interview today. It will be interesting to see if he improves over the course of this race.

    DD.
  • pblakeneypblakeney Posts: 11,358
    He is past it.
    Yesterday was as perfect a day as a sprinter can ask for. He was nowhere.
    The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
    I am not sure. You have no chance.
    veronese68 wrote:
    PB is the most sensible person on here.
  • milemuncher1milemuncher1 Posts: 1,472
    One of his problems this year, is that he’s lost a bit of weight. He clearly didn’t ask Wiggins for a Jiffy bag, and he seems to be down on power as well.
  • ShutupJensShutupJens Posts: 1,373
    He;s not going for training miles though is he, he's had a censored spring with injuries and crashes, doesn't mean he has to sit out the tour does it, he just needs a little fortune to get his usual excellent standard results
  • Vino'sGhostVino'sGhost Posts: 4,320
    Has he won at all this year?
  • ocdupalaisocdupalais Posts: 3,645
    pblakeney wrote:
    He is past it.
    Yesterday was as perfect a day as a sprinter can ask for. He was nowhere.
    Not strictly true: a bit up hilly/draggy then curve with slope down to the line... Cav looked over geared with about 300 to go.
    Cav was in the mix before sitting up allowing 5 or 6 guys come past him. But yeah - can’t see him having much to answer Groenewegen with.
  • DeVlaeminckDeVlaeminck Posts: 5,675
    Has he even sprinted through the line yet. I know he says he's been bumped, blocked etc but it's worrying that he isn't even really opening up a sprint full gas . I'd like to see him at least sticking his nose in the wind and having a go.
    AFC Mercia women - sign for us
  • inseineinseine Posts: 5,617
    Has he won at all this year?
    Yes, Dubai
  • Vino'sGhostVino'sGhost Posts: 4,320
    inseine wrote:
    Has he won at all this year?
    Yes, Dubai

    Ah good. Its something at least.
  • inseineinseine Posts: 5,617
    He did have the Epstein-Barr virus last year which some never really get over, then all those crashes this year and he is 33. This being contract year it wouldn’t be a total shock if it was his last season. We should probably make the most of watching him.
  • ddraverddraver Posts: 19,642
    He's finished
    We're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
    - @ddraver
  • DeVlaeminckDeVlaeminck Posts: 5,675
    Being the sort of sprinter he is it's possible he's lost the edge due to age. That snap in the legs - the acceleration - tends to go before the big top end watts. Looking at him I think some of the disregard of danger has gone too, another attribute of youth. Hope I'm wrong.
    AFC Mercia women - sign for us
  • takethehighroadtakethehighroad Posts: 5,442
    inseine wrote:
    Has he won at all this year?
    Yes, Dubai

    Kittel hasn't won since March either.

    As INRNG says, he's coming back from 0, so it will be a big ask for him to even win 1 stage, something that he has consistently said.
    My Men 2020 - Mark Cavendish, Ben Swift, Fernando Gaviria, Alejandro Valverde, Edvald Boassen Hagen, Zdenek Stybar, Vincenzo Nibali, Geraint Thomas.
  • curiumcurium Posts: 815

    Kittel hasn't won since March either.
    Goes to show what a rough game sprinting is. There was a time where I thought Cav was finished because Kittel looked too good. Kittel never really dominated in the way many expected and he already looks like he won't be a match for Gaviria and Viviani.

    Patrick Lefevere has showed himself to be a wiley old fox - getting shot of sprinters (Cav & Kittel) once he sees they're past their peak and bringing in replacements.
  • durhamwaspdurhamwasp Posts: 1,212
    Is that the last 2 stages he's been in a good position and had some sort of unclipping of his fancy shoes and then sat up? Doesn't look up to it this year unfortunately, think he's finished i'm sad to say.
    http://www.snookcycling.wordpress.com - Reports on Cingles du Mont Ventoux, Alpe D'Huez, Galibier, Izoard, Tourmalet, Paris-Roubaix Sportive & Tour of Flanders Sportive, Amstel Gold Xperience, Vosges, C2C, WOTR routes....
  • cougiecougie Posts: 22,512
    Yesterday he looked ok until he cut across someone and clipped their front wheel. I didn't see him at all today.
  • ProssPross Posts: 22,341
    Age will obviously start to catch up with him but the lack of racing this season is probably the biggest issue. He looked well placed today on the winner's wheel just before the sprint opened up then pulled his foot out. Still managed a top 10 without sprinting so there's still hope, unfortunately there's not much for him for a while now and lots of mountains to cross!
  • ds2288ds2288 Posts: 36
    I think he’s done. I don’t see how he can sprint with the likes of Gaviria, Groenewegen and Sagan. Tactically and physically he is way behind the top sprinters, he’d need an awful lot of luck to get a stage win this year.
  • daninexiledaninexile Posts: 43
    I think tactically he's fine it's just his top end which is probably lacking given the lack of racing miles and probably age. The thing with Cav is its all or nothing so if he thinks he wont win he usually gives up way before even if he could place in the top three.
  • andypandyp Posts: 8,132
    Pross wrote:
    Age will obviously start to catch up with him but the lack of racing this season is probably the biggest issue. He looked well placed today on the winner's wheel just before the sprint opened up then pulled his foot out. Still managed a top 10 without sprinting so there's still hope, unfortunately there's not much for him for a while now and lots of mountains to cross!

    I don't buy the lack of racing excuse - he crashed out of MSR which ended his spring, but he'd have only ridden Gent-Wevelgem and Schieldeprijs after MSR. He re-started racing at the Tour of Yorkshire, then did California, the Tour of Slovenia and the new Adriatica Ionica race, which was 21 days of racing in two months, i.e. about what he normally did in his prime.

    Renshaw is past it, and it's looking increasingly likely that Cavendish is too.
  • takethehighroadtakethehighroad Posts: 5,442
    Yeah but he crashed out of Abu Dhabi which meant MSR was his comeback race instead of something he built towards.

    And you can't say the Tour of Slovenia is the same kind of race as what he's done previously.

    Tactically he is fine, still reading races as well as ever. It's just physically age, but primarily the fact he is undercooked this year, are getting on top of him.

    He's not doing the intermediates, and stops sprinting about 100m out but still finishes 10th, which says to me his physicality is fine
    My Men 2020 - Mark Cavendish, Ben Swift, Fernando Gaviria, Alejandro Valverde, Edvald Boassen Hagen, Zdenek Stybar, Vincenzo Nibali, Geraint Thomas.
  • bobmcstuffbobmcstuff Posts: 8,134
    Yeah but he crashed out of Abu Dhabi which meant MSR was his comeback race instead of something he built towards.

    And you can't say the Tour of Slovenia is the same kind of race as what he's done previously.

    Tactically he is fine, still reading races as well as ever. It's just physically age, but primarily the fact he is undercooked this year, are getting on top of him.

    He's not doing the intermediates, and stops sprinting about 100m out but still finishes 10th, which says to me his physicality is fine

    And whatever he's done this year has to be taken in context with his 2017 being a write off.

    He's getting his placings running into the finale about right, I just don't think he has it in the legs. And at his age I don't know if he has time to get it back.
  • ShutupJensShutupJens Posts: 1,373
    I think he still has it, he's just not as sharp as he usually would be in July. The issue is, given the lack of sharpness but the looming pressure of getting results, if he continues to get his wheels clipped and get into situations at the back of sprints where he may well end up having more crashes, will he be able to build the consistency to be back where he can be?
  • He’s been complaining about his bike hasn’t he? Could this be a factor? To be honest, I’m pretty sceptical, but maybe a lack of confidence in his kit doesn’t help.

    I hope this isn’t the end of Cavendish, but it does look a bit like it.
  • bobmcstuffbobmcstuff Posts: 8,134
    He’s been complaining about his bike hasn’t he? Could this be a factor? To be honest, I’m pretty sceptical, but maybe a lack of confidence in his kit doesn’t help.

    I hope this isn’t the end of Cavendish, but it does look a bit like it.

    Was discussed on cycling podcast, he was saying he can't compete with QS and Bora, the implication being they are on Specialized and that is what is making the difference.

    This kind of ignores Groenewegen who has won 2 in a row on a Bianchi, so........

    I tend to be quite dismissive of that type of argument. Cervelos are perfectly decent bikes, any differences in aero between the two aren't going to make the difference between 1st and 10th, and I'd be very sceptical they would make even 1 placing difference (unless very prone to mechanicals as the 3T bikes seem to be).

    In summary, it's either a poor excuse or people have misinterpreted his comments and he just thinks Bora/QS have a better train etc.
  • ShutupJensShutupJens Posts: 1,373
    bobmcstuff wrote:
    In summary, it's either a poor excuse or people have misinterpreted his comments and he just thinks Bora/QS have a better train etc.

    I'd say this is about 100x more important than whatever equipment he's riding. And it's true, granted he has Renshaw still but he can't work miracles, the rest of the train is lightweight in comparison to the bigger teams
  • pblakeneypblakeney Posts: 11,358
    ShutupJens wrote:
    bobmcstuff wrote:
    In summary, it's either a poor excuse or people have misinterpreted his comments and he just thinks Bora/QS have a better train etc.

    I'd say this is about 100x more important than whatever equipment he's riding. And it's true, granted he has Renshaw still but he can't work miracles, the rest of the train is lightweight in comparison to the bigger teams
    He would have to be able to stay on Renshaw's wheel for a start.
    The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
    I am not sure. You have no chance.
    veronese68 wrote:
    PB is the most sensible person on here.
  • oviovi Posts: 396
    wonder if Kittel will win a stage, I'm not so sure
  • cougiecougie Posts: 22,512
    He’s been complaining about his bike hasn’t he? Could this be a factor? To be honest, I’m pretty sceptical, but maybe a lack of confidence in his kit doesn’t help.

    I hope this isn’t the end of Cavendish, but it does look a bit like it.

    Where's he complained about his bike ? That's a big sin to diss your kit.
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