Chris Froome salbutamol/Tour merged threads

bobmcstuff

Tangled Metal wrote:

In some ways sky are contentious because a lot of people seem to want their success to be down to money and cheating. When every attempt to condemn them for cheating results in sky and sky team members being cleared, that just leaves the money which other teams have as well. Not enough of a distinction I think. Kind of leaves it to sky are better at doing what they do.

That phrase is stupid. Contentious for doing things right.

Well it is down to money, isn't it?

Buy all the best riders and have them ride on the front - classic...

Ben6899

Just going back to the debate on Elite/Pro athletes using medication to bring themselves up to the level playing field... I'd be interested to hear Vino's views on Sir Steve Redgrave, that National Treasure of the UK and all round inspirational figure to anyone remotely interested in taking part in sport.

nozzac

I'd say Roglic's sudden rise to these heights is more suspicious than Sky's riders performances.

I bet in the Clinic, where nobody can get anywhere in cycling without a flat graph of rising achievement over many years without it being "proof" of massive doping must have something to say about this chap!

Vino'sGhost

Ben6899 wrote:

Just going back to the debate on Elite/Pro athletes using medication to bring themselves up to the level playing field... I'd be interested to hear Vino's views on Sir Steve Redgrave, that National Treasure of the UK and all round inspirational figure to anyone remotely interested in taking part in sport.

My views on asthma medcine and other products being used in elite sport to overcome physilogocical imbalance are clear, and havent changed. Theyre not palatable to some incapable of looking at an issue broadly and im not going to repeat them again.

Nice attempt to troll though. I give you 5/5

DeadCalm

NozzaC wrote:

I'd say Roglic's sudden rise to these heights is more suspicious than Sky's riders performances.

Roglic's rise would seem sudden only if you haven't been paying attention to pro-cycling for the last three years.

Ben6899

Vino'sGhost wrote:

Ben6899 wrote:

Just going back to the debate on Elite/Pro athletes using medication to bring themselves up to the level playing field... I'd be interested to hear Vino's views on Sir Steve Redgrave, that National Treasure of the UK and all round inspirational figure to anyone remotely interested in taking part in sport.

My views on asthma medcine and other products being used in elite sport to overcome physilogocical imbalance are clear, and havent changed. Theyre not palatable to some incapable of looking at an issue broadly and im not going to repeat them again.

Nice attempt to troll though. I give you 5/5

You clearly have no idea what I was getting at. Maybe read up on him beyond his rowing...

Vino'sGhost

Ben6899 wrote:

Vino'sGhost wrote:

Ben6899 wrote:

Just going back to the debate on Elite/Pro athletes using medication to bring themselves up to the level playing field... I'd be interested to hear Vino's views on Sir Steve Redgrave, that National Treasure of the UK and all round inspirational figure to anyone remotely interested in taking part in sport.

My views on asthma medcine and other products being used in elite sport to overcome physilogocical imbalance are clear, and havent changed. Theyre not palatable to some incapable of looking at an issue broadly and im not going to repeat them again.

Nice attempt to troll though. I give you 5/5

You clearly have no idea what I was getting at. Maybe read up on him beyond his rowing...

hang on then

Vino'sGhost

Vino'sGhost wrote:

Ben6899 wrote:

Vino'sGhost wrote:

Ben6899 wrote:

Just going back to the debate on Elite/Pro athletes using medication to bring themselves up to the level playing field... I'd be interested to hear Vino's views on Sir Steve Redgrave, that National Treasure of the UK and all round inspirational figure to anyone remotely interested in taking part in sport.

My views on asthma medcine and other products being used in elite sport to overcome physilogocical imbalance are clear, and havent changed. Theyre not palatable to some incapable of looking at an issue broadly and im not going to repeat them again.

Nice attempt to troll though. I give you 5/5

You clearly have no idea what I was getting at. Maybe read up on him beyond his rowing...

hang on then

are you referring to his diabetes?

Ben6899

Vino'sGhost wrote:

Vino'sGhost wrote:

Ben6899 wrote:

Vino'sGhost wrote:

Ben6899 wrote:

Just going back to the debate on Elite/Pro athletes using medication to bring themselves up to the level playing field... I'd be interested to hear Vino's views on Sir Steve Redgrave, that National Treasure of the UK and all round inspirational figure to anyone remotely interested in taking part in sport.

My views on asthma medcine and other products being used in elite sport to overcome physilogocical imbalance are clear, and havent changed. Theyre not palatable to some incapable of looking at an issue broadly and im not going to repeat them again.

Nice attempt to troll though. I give you 5/5

You clearly have no idea what I was getting at. Maybe read up on him beyond his rowing...

hang on then

are you referring to his diabetes?

And his ulcerative colitis. Both of which he has been medicating since 1997 and 1992, respectively. By the rules you outlined earlier, he should never have been in the fuck1ng boat.

DeVlaeminck

We've been through this, basically where do you draw the line, is ibruprofen ok? Caffeine ? Nicotine? Hi5 sports drink?

We want as many people playing sport as possible, if literally millions of people with asthma and other conditions that are controlled through medication are banned from competitive sport then how does that benefit society?

Vino'sGhost

Ben6899 wrote:

Vino'sGhost wrote:

Vino'sGhost wrote:

Ben6899 wrote:

Vino'sGhost wrote:

Ben6899 wrote:

Just going back to the debate on Elite/Pro athletes using medication to bring themselves up to the level playing field... I'd be interested to hear Vino's views on Sir Steve Redgrave, that National Treasure of the UK and all round inspirational figure to anyone remotely interested in taking part in sport.

My views on asthma medcine and other products being used in elite sport to overcome physilogocical imbalance are clear, and havent changed. Theyre not palatable to some incapable of looking at an issue broadly and im not going to repeat them again.

Nice attempt to troll though. I give you 5/5

You clearly have no idea what I was getting at. Maybe read up on him beyond his rowing...

hang on then

are you referring to his diabetes?

And his ulcerative colitis. Both of which he has been medicating since 1997 and 1992, respectively. By the rules you outlined earlier, he should never have been in the fuck1ng boat.

so my initial answer was bang on then, why are you ranting?

Vino'sGhost

DeVlaeminck wrote:

We've been through this, basically where do you draw the line, is ibruprofen ok? Caffeine ? Nicotine? Hi5 sports drink?

We want as many people playing sport as possible, if literally millions of people with asthma and other conditions that are controlled through medication are banned from competitive sport then how does that benefit society?

Absolutely agree.

mfin

DeVlaeminck wrote:

We've been through this, basically where do you draw the line, is ibruprofen ok? Caffeine ? Nicotine? Hi5 sports drink?

We want as many people playing sport as possible, if literally millions of people with asthma and other conditions that are controlled through medication are banned from competitive sport then how does that benefit society?

Just picking up on a point, you are implying that more people doing "competitive sport" "benefits society". Why?

I could agree that more people exercising benefits society, but "competitive sport"? Really?

mfin

Ben6899 wrote:

Steve Redgrave ...And his ulcerative colitis. Both of which he has been medicating since 1997 and 1992, respectively. By the rules you outlined earlier, he should never have been in the fuck1ng boat.

Ahh, but it would have saved us having to watch his boring mug talking on the TV for the last decade, and having one of our "greatest olympians of all time" achieve it doing a sport which is about as boring as you can get.

Vino'sGhost

just to recap

my comments on asthma drugs etc apply to elite sport, its my view, some people dont agree with it. By the way heres a good G quote for you "people with asthma should go and work in an office"

Ben6899

Vino'sGhost wrote:

Ben6899 wrote:

Vino'sGhost wrote:

Vino'sGhost wrote:

Ben6899 wrote:

Vino'sGhost wrote:

Ben6899 wrote:

Just going back to the debate on Elite/Pro athletes using medication to bring themselves up to the level playing field... I'd be interested to hear Vino's views on Sir Steve Redgrave, that National Treasure of the UK and all round inspirational figure to anyone remotely interested in taking part in sport.

My views on asthma medcine and other products being used in elite sport to overcome physilogocical imbalance are clear, and havent changed. Theyre not palatable to some incapable of looking at an issue broadly and im not going to repeat them again.

Nice attempt to troll though. I give you 5/5

You clearly have no idea what I was getting at. Maybe read up on him beyond his rowing...

hang on then

are you referring to his diabetes?

And his ulcerative colitis. Both of which he has been medicating since 1997 and 1992, respectively. By the rules you outlined earlier, he should never have been in the fuck1ng boat.

so my initial answer was bang on then, why are you ranting?

Not ranting.

You dodge discussion very well, when the facts don't align to your world ideal.

inseine

Vino'sGhost wrote:

just to recap

my comments on asthma drugs etc apply to elite sport, its my view, some people dont agree with it. By the way heres a good G quote for you "people with asthma should go and work in an office"

That's completely taken out of context, but I suppose if it suits your narrative.

Ben6899

mfin wrote:

Ben6899 wrote:

Steve Redgrave ...And his ulcerative colitis. Both of which he has been medicating since 1997 and 1992, respectively. By the rules you outlined earlier, he should never have been in the fuck1ng boat.

Ahh, but it would have saved us having to watch his boring mug talking on the TV for the last decade, and having one of our "greatest olympians of all time" achieve it doing a sport which is about as boring as you can get.

Each to their own, I suppose.

Did you know that drugs are available that bring your sense of self worth up to a level comparable with normal people? You can still go cycling as well.

Vino'sGhost

Ben6899 wrote:

mfin wrote:

Ben6899 wrote:

Steve Redgrave ...And his ulcerative colitis. Both of which he has been medicating since 1997 and 1992, respectively. By the rules you outlined earlier, he should never have been in the fuck1ng boat.

Ahh, but it would have saved us having to watch his boring mug talking on the TV for the last decade, and having one of our "greatest olympians of all time" achieve it doing a sport which is about as boring as you can get.

Each to their own, I suppose.

Did you know that drugs are available that bring your sense of self worth up to a level comparable with normal people? You can still go cycling as well.

Well I do know that when people resort to personal abuse they have little or nothing to add to the discussion. Im guessing you don't agree with his comment. thats fine, but you haven't articulated an alternative view.

orraloon

Why is this thread still wittering on? Bor-ing.

Vino'sGhost

orraloon wrote:

Why is this thread still wittering on? Bor-ing.

cause people keep adding useful stuff like above

Ben6899

Vino'sGhost wrote:

Ben6899 wrote:

mfin wrote:

Ben6899 wrote:

Steve Redgrave ...And his ulcerative colitis. Both of which he has been medicating since 1997 and 1992, respectively. By the rules you outlined earlier, he should never have been in the fuck1ng boat.

Ahh, but it would have saved us having to watch his boring mug talking on the TV for the last decade, and having one of our "greatest olympians of all time" achieve it doing a sport which is about as boring as you can get.

Each to their own, I suppose.

Did you know that drugs are available that bring your sense of self worth up to a level comparable with normal people? You can still go cycling as well.

Well I do know that when people resort to personal abuse they have little or nothing to add to the discussion. Im guessing you don't agree with his comment. thats fine, but you haven't articulated an alternative view.

I think you're using the salbutamol thing to hit Froome. And I suggested that you probably have an issue with Sir Steve Redgrave, if your issue is a genuine one with people medicating to bring themselves in line with healthy people in order to be able to compete in Elite/Pro level sport. You seemed unwilling to give a clear opinion on that, which I found odd.

mfin's forum persona is one that only says negative things about others - either other members or whoever might be the subject of the discussion (this time, Redgrave). And it's dull.

Vino'sGhost

Ben6899 wrote:

Vino'sGhost wrote:

Ben6899 wrote:

mfin wrote:

Ben6899 wrote:

Steve Redgrave ...And his ulcerative colitis. Both of which he has been medicating since 1997 and 1992, respectively. By the rules you outlined earlier, he should never have been in the fuck1ng boat.

Ahh, but it would have saved us having to watch his boring mug talking on the TV for the last decade, and having one of our "greatest olympians of all time" achieve it doing a sport which is about as boring as you can get.

Each to their own, I suppose.

Did you know that drugs are available that bring your sense of self worth up to a level comparable with normal people? You can still go cycling as well.

Well I do know that when people resort to personal abuse they have little or nothing to add to the discussion. Im guessing you don't agree with his comment. thats fine, but you haven't articulated an alternative view.

I think you're using the salbutamol thing to hit Froome. And I suggested that you probably have an issue with Sir Steve Redgrave, if your issue is a genuine one with people medicating to bring themselves in line with healthy people in order to be able to compete in Elite/Pro level sport. You seemed unwilling to give a clear opinion on that, which I found odd.

mfin's forum persona is one that only says negative things about others - either other members or whoever might be the subject of the discussion (this time, Redgrave). And it's dull.

You're being hysterical. my point isn't aimed at or used as a convenient stick to beat people with. Its a view. That Elite sport should be just that. Redgrave is a well respected champion, he seems like a decent bloke too.

In other online forums you might have used discrimination or something else to cause your trouble. Here however, other than keeping the thread going you're achieving little. You seem like an angry person.

Im downgrading your trolling score from 5 to 3 (must try harder)

Ben6899

Vino'sGhost wrote:

You're being hysterical. my point isn't aimed at or used as a convenient stick to beat people with. Its a view. That Elite sport should be just that. Redgrave is a well respected champion, he seems like a decent bloke too.

In other online forums you might have used discrimination or something else to cause your trouble. Here however, other than keeping the thread going you're achieving little. You seem like an angry person.

Im downgrading your trolling score from 5 to 3 (must try harder)

Ha! Hardly.

It comes across, looking like a stick. I'm not the only one who suspected as such.

You say Redgrave "is a well respected champion" and I agree with this. This is genuinely the only thing I wanted to discuss - he is extremely well respected, but should he be a champion? By your rules, no. Which seems a massive shame.

I'm not trolling - I don't have the energy for it and you've already spotted that I wouldn't be very good at it.

jwa581

DeVlaeminck wrote:

We've been through this, basically where do you draw the line, is ibruprofen ok? Caffeine ? Nicotine? Hi5 sports drink?

We want as many people playing sport as possible, if literally millions of people with asthma and other conditions that are controlled through medication are banned from competitive sport then how does that benefit society?

This, this and this!!

bobmcstuff

mfin wrote:

DeVlaeminck wrote:

We've been through this, basically where do you draw the line, is ibruprofen ok? Caffeine ? Nicotine? Hi5 sports drink?

We want as many people playing sport as possible, if literally millions of people with asthma and other conditions that are controlled through medication are banned from competitive sport then how does that benefit society?

Just picking up on a point, you are implying that more people doing "competitive sport" "benefits society". Why?

I could agree that more people exercising benefits society, but "competitive sport"? Really?

More people doing competitive sport means more people exercising generally and having top level athletes in a sport encourages more people to take up that sport.

I'll admit to taking up road cycling following the 2012 olympics (and losing 18kg!) - sports exists on a continuum from light exercise to top level competition, it doesn't fit into neat boxes like that. I personally have dabbled in competitive cycling (hill climbs), but am primarily a leisure cyclist, whereas some people I ride with do ride more competitive events, but others do none at all.

How many kids take up football because of the premier league and get a good runaround as a result? They aren't all going to play in the premier league but competitive sport still results in more kids doing exercise.

wallace_and_gromit

jwa581 wrote:

DeVlaeminck wrote:

We've been through this, basically where do you draw the line, is ibruprofen ok? Caffeine ? Nicotine? Hi5 sports drink?

We want as many people playing sport as possible, if literally millions of people with asthma and other conditions that are controlled through medication are banned from competitive sport then how does that benefit society?

This, this and this!!

I think if you qualify for a Pro account on Strava (*) then you have to go into bat with what nature provided if your treatment is on the WADA banned list. If you're just doing it for fun, including grass roots racing, then if you've got a prescription or can buy it OTC then you should be able to compete with that/those.

(*) or some other credible definition of a pro/elite sportsman.

topper_harley

Vino'sGhost wrote:

just to recap

my comments on asthma drugs etc apply to elite sport, its my view, some people dont agree with it. By the way heres a good G quote for you "people with asthma should go and work in an office"

you snake, put the full quote up

Thomas, who told us he’s never had a TUE himself, said the authorities “should do more to take out grey area.
“Brad ticked all the boxes,” he continued, “but the issue is how they dish them out, what’s involved.
“If someone has asthma and it reduces their performance by 8 per cent but they take a drug and it increases it by 12, how do you even measure that?
“It’s a hard one but at the end of the day you could just ban all that stuff anyway. If you’ve got asthma, go and work in an office or something,” he added.

Vino'sGhost

Topper harley wrote:

Vino'sGhost wrote:

just to recap

my comments on asthma drugs etc apply to elite sport, its my view, some people dont agree with it. By the way heres a good G quote for you "people with asthma should go and work in an office"

you snake, put the full quote up

Thomas, who told us he’s never had a TUE himself, said the authorities “should do more to take out grey area.
“Brad ticked all the boxes,” he continued, “but the issue is how they dish them out, what’s involved.
“If someone has asthma and it reduces their performance by 8 per cent but they take a drug and it increases it by 12, how do you even measure that?
“It’s a hard one but at the end of the day you could just ban all that stuff anyway. If you’ve got asthma, go and work in an office or something,” he added.

So we’re agreed he said it then? I agree with him.

topper_harley

aye but you are making it out that he doesn't think people with Asthma should be cycling and that's not what he said