"to be honest, I don't care about cyclists..."

defever

This is the exact word the bin lorry driver used when I spoke to him at his destination.

Quick scenario:
7:00am. Fine misty rain. The bin lorry overtook me at a single carriage B road (flat and wide visibility) whilst an oncoming hatchback was approaching. I heard the lorry approaching from behind, passed me as the oncoming car passed. Obviously, the lorry was very close to me, I felt the wind (and spray, it was raining very finely). It was loud. It was pretty sketchy. The incident just happened to occur at the short distance of national speed limit zone. Rest of the road goes into 30 and 40. I was by the white line shoulder.



I was going to leave it, but I saw the bin lorry stop and turn into one of the local farms, 0.5mile ahead and I caught up. Perhaps he didn’t realise how close he was. So I approached VERY POLITELY. “Good morning. I’m not aiming to criticise your driving. I just wanted to let you know that the overtake was very close to my liking. What do you think?”

He took a moment. He said “To be honest, I don’t care about cyclists” with a rather heart-warming west country accent.

He said it very calmly. He was very calm the whole time.

I was shocked. His view was that cyclists are “all over the road.” “I was doing 30mph, you were doing 4-5mph,” “of course, you’d feel the wind,” “I know how to overtake” etc. We were both quite calm about it, without raising voice or swear words. But he just didn't care about cyclists.

Scariest thing was that he was able to calmly and clearly express his opinion that he does not care about cyclists. Cyclists, in his perspective, is no longer a person on a bicycle on the side of the road. Cyclists, in his tone, seem to be equivalent to foxes, pheasants, badgers, or any other animal subject to roadkill.

I’m tired of putting up with this sort of mentality.
I’m put off cycling on the road.
Another nail (but not final) on my “cycling” coffin.

Cyclists don’t stand a chance in the hierarchy of road users.

Seriously, how do you continue to cycle on the road be it for leisure, club, or commuting?

photonic69

What a tosser. Report him to the company, the council and the Police.

orraloon

Agreed. Report the pr1ck. Enough fuss made, company disciplinary, then he might change his view... or not.

cougie

How close was the lorry to you ?

Brakeless

As above, follow it up. A professional driver with that attitude who's on the road most of every working day is a liability to other road users and to his employer.

sloppyschleckonds

defever wrote:

Cyclists, in his tone, seem to be equivalent to foxes, pheasants, badgers, or any other animal subject to roadkill.

I'd like to hear moar from the badgers, foxes & pheasants

priory

I have only once reported this sort of thing , but the police took it very seriously to my surprise. It would be reasonable for you to write to his employer a precis as above . If the employer's response is dismissive give the letters to the police and say that you find his driving and the employers attitude suspicious of a safety risk to the public which is not being addressed and may be a sign of deeper system failures. A thorough inspection of tachographs etc might follow , or the possibilty of it coming will give the company something to think about.

by the way, I was told by the police that a complaint about his driving would need to be supported by another witness within a short time or the record would be binned. Suspicious behaviour however can be acted on and record kept against the vehicle .

sniper68

I reported my brother,a Bus driver,to his employer after he posted some less than positive remarks about cyclists and pedestrians on FB.I included screenshots of all his rants 8)
He got a verbal warning 8)

defever

cougie wrote:

How close was the lorry to you ?

Imagine this using the screenshot of the Google Map above:

I was cycling away into the far end of the road on the screenshot (i.e. left hand lane), 1/4 left of the hard shoulder (secondary position). An oncoming vehicle (I think it was Golf / Polo or similar sized hatchback) was approaching. Bin lorry approaching behind me. The oncoming vehicle, the bin lorry and I all passed at the same time.

That means the bin lorry, being a heavy / large commercial vehicle, would not have crossed the centre line of the road whilst overtaking me, due to an oncoming vehicle. I don’t know how wide the bin lorry or the road itself, but you can imagine from the screenshot. I felt the drag wind and spray (not to mention the loud noise) enough that I sensed the wind pulling me into the lorry (not substantial enough that I felt imminent danger).

That’s how I felt. I realise that it happened in a split second or two, but it was close enough for me to approach the driver and tell how I felt.

He claimed that he was doing 30mph (it was on a national speed limit zone, i.e. could be anything legal up to 50mph for the bin lorry) and I was doing 4 – 5mph. Upon my return to home, my Garmin and Strava record indicated that I was doing 20mph at that exact point.

gary_sparrow

Sniper68 wrote:

I reported my brother,a Bus driver,to his employer after he posted some less than positive remarks about cyclists and pedestrians on FB.I included screenshots of all his rants 8)
He got a verbal warning 8)

Do you still talk ?

sniper68

Gary sparrow wrote:

Sniper68 wrote:

I reported my brother,a Bus driver,to his employer after he posted some less than positive remarks about cyclists and pedestrians on FB.I included screenshots of all his rants 8)
He got a verbal warning 8)

Do you still talk ?

Occasionally.

pblakeney

Sniper68 wrote:

Gary sparrow wrote:

Sniper68 wrote:

I reported my brother,a Bus driver,to his employer after he posted some less than positive remarks about cyclists and pedestrians on FB.I included screenshots of all his rants 8)
He got a verbal warning 8)

Do you still talk ?

Occasionally.

Politely?

StillGoing

Contact the local authority that award the contract.

sniper68

PBlakeney wrote:

Sniper68 wrote:

Gary sparrow wrote:

Sniper68 wrote:

I reported my brother,a Bus driver,to his employer after he posted some less than positive remarks about cyclists and pedestrians on FB.I included screenshots of all his rants 8)
He got a verbal warning 8)

Do you still talk ?

Occasionally.

Politely?

Yes!
It’s not a conventional situation but we both know where we stand.

pblakeney

Sniper68 wrote:

It’s not a conventional situation but we both know where we stand.

Nice.
Boring, but nice.

tangled_metal

Any witnesses that you know the details of to corroborate your story? If the answer is no then accept that whilst reporting it to every relevant organisation is worthwhile nothing much will happen as a result. That in no way means reporting it is not something that should be done. If nothing else you will get satisfaction knowing you didn't just let that behaviour and attitude go by without pushing back against it.

BTW I don't report incidents personally but do encourage others to. Hypocrite? Yes I am but my coping strategy is to try and learn from it but move on. I try to understand if I could have done something to prevent the bad driving. For example should I have been more towards primary? Am I riding to close to the l kerb which allows idiots to get their opportunity to be an idiot? I assess, learn, think evil thoughts then move on.

We all have our coping strategies for surviving our cycle commutes or other rides. Reporting is perhaps more socially considerate, move is perhaps more selfish.

Whatever you do, make sure you don't let the buggers grind you down until you give up the bike. There's something about cycling that drew you to it. Don't let them take that away from you.

tangled_metal

BTW sniper, nice job reporting your brother. Respect for living up to your principles.

haydenm

As others have said, report him to the council and his employer. Even if nothing is really done at least they know it happened and doesn't go unreported. At worst he will get some rubbish 'training' where his boss tells him that their public image is important. Even if it wasn't as close as you say (I believe you but they might not), it's the perception more than the specifics. If a lorry working from one of our sites was reported doing anything like that then I would ask for them never to work for us again (despite the fact they are often self employed, working for contractors who are then working for a company who work for us). If that didn't happen they wouldn't be asked to tender for the next job, but they know that and do what we ask with no complaints...

milemuncher1

In the last 20 years or so, I’ve seen the numbers of road users increase a lot, the number of ‘close’ passes and general feckwittery has gone up proportionately. I’m not that concerned about that per se. What bothers me most is the disproportionate size increase, of the majority of vehicles, doing the feckcumpery. It’s an increasingly rare occurrence to get passed by a vehicle of a size, I’d deem appropriate for the road I’m on. Everybody seems to have ditched their hatchbacks and saloons, for ridiculous wankenpanzers, and haven’t adjusted their driving accordingly. Bin lorries and buses and HGVs and the like are always going to cause a sphincter constriction, when they pass, even if they give me sufficient room. If they close pass, it’s just not cricket, and I’m not averse to pointing out the error of the drivers ways to them, given a chance. Does that in itself deter me from cycling? Not a chance, there are plenty of other things that mean I’m increasingly finding that a short trip, on a hybrid, using shared / dedicated paths, and trips out on a XC MTB, are far more enjoyable than a long stint on a road bike, but I still enjoy riding a bike of some description, and probably always will.

timothyw

I'm not particularly surprised by what the driver said - just a rare case of his words matching up to his deeds.

I probably would have got a bit shouty and pointed out that I'm not just a cyclist, I'm also a father and husband. Or I might have said 'I don't care about bin men' and hit him.

More sensibly though, it's never fun being overtaken by a bin lorry or other similarly large vehicle - and you could have taken primary to postpone the overtake (or force him to drive into you....)

If you leave a gap that the vehicle can get through without hitting you, then in the eyes of an unfortunate number of motorists there is enough room.

Remember, if they wanted to hit you, it would be very easy for them to do so - it's carelessness, not malice. I've never come across a driver that actually tried to hurt me.

tangled_metal

My pet hate right now is large vehicles using roads that are really not suitable just because it avoids busy main roads.

For example I commute on an A road (A6) that is rather narrow in places. However it's a kind of rat run for artics when the nearly parallel M6 is busy. A few times a year we get nights with the large logistics trucks coming off the M6 and using two roads to get to this A6 rat run. One had a weight limit sign that's been covered up or sprayed over. The reason for the weight limit is a narrow bridge over a canal that barely let's an artic through. They still take that road and struggle over that bridge (on a bit of a bend too) and struggle round the crossroads onto the A6.

Now the odd truck might be acceptable but these occasions you get convoys lasting a few hours of near continuous artic trucks. Dx logistics, M&S, DHL, FedEx, Royal mail, yodel, etc. Large artic after large artic. Made worse by a dangerous double lights just after a crest of a hill today cars struggle to stop at but trucks sometimes can't stop before crossing the line. There's a pedestrian crossing there too.

Sorry for the rant but IMHO there needs to be a real study on suitability of roads for vehicles and an enforced ban for such vehicles on roads deemed unsuitable (except for direct local access from more suitable roads). This view came about when Heysham link Road was being built and I got between the wheels of a bogey truck carrying reinforced concrete beams overtook me on a narrow stretch of road with double white lines and pulled on like I was a stationary object not realising I had moved forward too. Basically bad driving and poor visibility. I seriously only survived because by luck a gate to a field came up so the kerb was low enough for me to get onto the narrow pavement just in time to get out of the line of the rear wheels.

Trucks are dangerous and IMHO need to be kept on main roads or if utility like bin lorries they should be driven by people who do give a sh1t about other people.

BTW dustbin lorries almost certainly have cameras. Just saying. If the op complains to the company there might be evidence to back his side up.

imafatman

The "i must overtake a cyclist at all costs" mentality is scary. I was cycling along my residential street yesterday when I heard a car approaching very fast from behind. Just up ahead was a clearing which I was going to pull in to allow the car to pass.

Did the daft cunt wait 5 seconds so I could pull in and they could pass safely? Of course fucking not, they just flew past me with probably 0.5m of space so they could get to their destination 5 seconds quicker. I would have fucking punched the cunt but it was a woman so of course would end up with me all over the BBC as a woman beater.

slowbike

congratulations on keeping your cool - I would've lost it.

Report it - assuming you have enough details to identify the driver. It might go nowhere, but another cyclist might report them or they may get reported for another traffic incident - then they'll start adding them all up.

I got one of those rear camera lights when they were cheap - it only records 1/2 hr in a loop - but that's enough for my commute - 3 close pass reports to the online reporting service with a clip from the video - all with letters passed to the registered keeper (they're all private cars) and one "educating a colleague" moment - where a seemingly intelligent man didn't consider he was too close. Video or even stills tend to focus the mind a bit more. The evidence isn't subjective - it's there, everyone can see it.

defever

Thanks everyone for your comments.

Whilst reporting him to appropriate parties seems an adequate action, I am considering the consequence of reporting.

The driver was very clear about his views on cyclists. He was also very clear about how he overtakes a cyclist. He wasn't spitting out rubbish in the heat of the moment. Nor was he threatening (apart from the overtake I experienced). We were both calm and had a conversation. He listened to me. This is what scared me about him; calm, listening, yet he expressed that he doesn't care. Unfortunately, his views on cyclists has become very negative and depersonalised for some reason. His mind was clearly set. What would reporting this "non-physical contact" encounter result in? Perhaps he gets a word from his boss, or maybe a caution from police at most. Perhaps he might re-think about caring cyclists. Based on speaking to him, I'm not convinced. Perhaps it might re-enforce his blanket views on cyclists.

Without the clear visual evidence or a credible witness of the experience I had (though he can be identifiable with some research), reporting may not be in favour of cyclists:

1) I cannot objectively provide the position of the bin lorry, the oncoming car, and I in relation to the road
2) Perhaps I didn't recognise early enough that the bin lorry was approaching from behind
3) Perhaps the bin lorry was in fact far away enough (we didn't collide in the end) and I over-reacted
4) Being reported by "a cyclists" for non-collision encounter which did not result in measurable harm (other than my fright) may irritate him rather than provide opportunity to reflect the encounter
5) "Another self-righteous cyclist wasting everyone's time telling a driver how to drive"
6) Re-enforces his negative views on cyclists

I explained to him that his overtake was too close to my liking. Then he said he doesn't care about cyclists. Had he not realised that he might have been close overtaking, I would assume he would have responded differently from stating that he doesn't care. I expressed my view, he responded with his view. Our views on the experience could not agree. One man's words against another.

Just another storm in a teacup in grand scheme of things?

slowbike

defever wrote:

Without the clear visual evidence or a credible witness of the experience I had (though he can be identifiable with some research), reporting may not be in favour of cyclists:

1) I cannot objectively provide the position of the bin lorry, the oncoming car, and I in relation to the road
2) Perhaps I didn't recognise early enough that the bin lorry was approaching from behind
3) Perhaps the bin lorry was in fact far away enough (we didn't collide in the end) and I over-reacted
4) Being reported by "a cyclists" for non-collision encounter which did not result in measurable harm (other than my fright) may irritate him rather than provide opportunity to reflect the encounter
5) "Another self-righteous cyclist wasting everyone's time telling a driver how to drive"
6) Re-enforces his negative views on cyclists

I explained to him that his overtake was too close to my liking. Then he said he doesn't care about cyclists. Had he not realised that he might have been close overtaking, I would assume he would have responded differently from stating that he doesn't care. I expressed my view, he responded with his view. Our views on the experience could not agree. One man's words against another.

Just another storm in a teacup in grand scheme of things?

Sorry - but number 2 is just bolx - you have the right to be on the road and whilst your positioning may be called into question, the onus is still on the overtaking vehicle to keep clear.
1.5 meters is the recommended MINIMUM - unfortunately, it's also only recommended.

The lorry driver certainly isn't going to change his opinion when being confronted by potential roadkill - however, he may if his job was at risk and the Police were interested too...
Of course, he may just be very good at winding up people - keeping his cool and arguing for the sake of it. However, due to the close pass, on balance I would be inclined to report it. Not passing close isn't for our comfort - it's to keep us safer and he passed close before the discussion.

simon_e

defever wrote:

Thanks everyone for your comments.

Whilst reporting him to appropriate parties seems an adequate action, I am considering the consequence of reporting.

Have you considered the potential consequences of NOT reporting him?

- He intimidates and frightens other road users and continues to think that it's OK
- He injures someone
- He kills someone

I don't care how f..king clear his views are. Psychopaths have clear views, it doesn't make them right. He needs to know how to treat other road users with some respect. You're not a "cyclist", you're a person getting from A to B, just like he is. Start with this:

https://twitter.com/WMPolice/status/776679721606209536

Overtaking etc is also covered unambiguously in the Highway Code:
https://www.gov.uk/guidance/the-highway ... 159-to-203
Or does he thinks that those rules do not apply to him?

defever wrote:

Just another storm in a teacup in grand scheme of things?

I have to disagree most strongly. You obviously haven't heard of the Accident Pyramid. I am sick to death of ignorant drivers thinking they own the f..king roads, bullying and harrassing pedestrians and people in/on smaller vehicles. If you don't report him you are letting him get away with it so someone else can get the same or worse treatment. If so then you're complicit and part of the problem.

Sniper68 wrote:

I reported my brother,a Bus driver,to his employer after he posted some less than positive remarks about cyclists and pedestrians on FB.I included screenshots of all his rants 8)
He got a verbal warning 8)

If that was my family member I would never speak to or acknowledge him again.

gary_sparrow

Sniper68 wrote:

Gary sparrow wrote:

Sniper68 wrote:

I reported my brother,a Bus driver,to his employer after he posted some less than positive remarks about cyclists and pedestrians on FB.I included screenshots of all his rants 8)
He got a verbal warning 8)

Do you still talk ?

Occasionally.

This is bizarre, is it a wind up ?

laurentian

You may not gain anything by reporting him but you certainly have nothing to lose so do it.

sniper68

Gary sparrow wrote:

Sniper68 wrote:

Gary sparrow wrote:

Sniper68 wrote:

I reported my brother,a Bus driver,to his employer after he posted some less than positive remarks about cyclists and pedestrians on FB.I included screenshots of all his rants 8)
He got a verbal warning 8)

Do you still talk ?

Occasionally.

This is bizarre, is it a wind up ?

Nope.
I’d do it again if I had to.Why is it bizarre?

Vino'sGhost

Sniper68 wrote:

Gary sparrow wrote:

Sniper68 wrote:

Gary sparrow wrote:

Sniper68 wrote:

I reported my brother,a Bus driver,to his employer after he posted some less than positive remarks about cyclists and pedestrians on FB.I included screenshots of all his rants 8)
He got a verbal warning 8)

Do you still talk ?

Occasionally.

This is bizarre, is it a wind up ?

Nope.
I’d do it again if I had to.Why is it bizarre?

I respect your stance but find gloating about it a bit wa nky

Vino'sGhost

imafatman wrote:

The "i must overtake a cyclist at all costs" mentality is scary. I was cycling along my residential street yesterday when I heard a car approaching very fast from behind. Just up ahead was a clearing which I was going to pull in to allow the car to pass.

Did the daft **** wait 5 seconds so I could pull in and they could pass safely? Of course ******* not, they just flew past me with probably 0.5m of space so they could get to their destination 5 seconds quicker. I would have ******* punched the **** but it was a woman so of course would end up with me all over the BBC as a woman beater.

Nothing wrong with that, equality is equality.