Pinot DNS for TDF
Comments
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davidof wrote:Asked how French riders need to win le Tour, The Badger replied: "what they need to do is to follow the example of Virenque" !
what is he getting at?
Get doped then when you're still not winning, as that wasn't the reason for lack of success in the first place, take to giving away time so you can chase the spotty jumper and a stage win.0 -
I would think he meant adopt a more aggressive style, pile on the self belief and show a bit of le éclair
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Hmmmm eclair.
Not sure how much that would help to be honest.Correlation is not causation.0 -
davidof wrote:Asked how French riders need to win le Tour, The Badger replied: "what they need to do is to follow the example of Virenque" !
what is he getting at?
Settle for a podium place?0 -
Like an eclair, Virenque was full of stuff that’s not good for you.Above The Cows wrote:Hmmmm eclair.
Not sure how much that would help to be honest.Twitter: @RichN950 -
KingstonGraham wrote:davidof wrote:Asked how French riders need to win le Tour, The Badger replied: "what they need to do is to follow the example of Virenque" !
what is he getting at?
Settle for a podium place?
Win Paris-Tours? Almost the same as the tour of france0 -
Above The Cows wrote:Hmmmm eclair.
Not sure how much that would help to be honest.
Housewives favourite.Warning No formatter is installed for the format0 -
I think this comment inadvertently gets to a lot of the problem with French cycling. Virenque, as noted above, was the housewive's favourite, the darling of the crowd. Feted by the French press corp.davidof wrote:Asked how French riders need to win le Tour, The Badger replied: "what they need to do is to follow the example of Virenque" !
what is he getting at?
He also never won a stage race in his entire career.
French GC riders seem, to me, too pre-occupied with winning favour with the media and public rather than winning races.Twitter: @RichN950 -
You often tell us what French cycling is doing wrong, RichN95 (I lurk here more than I write). Since I half-think you’re right, I’d like to hear what you think they should do.
I’d like to see Brailsford have a go with one of them (not Pinot), but I guess that dream is over now.0 -
1. Stop giving automatic wild card places to French teams regardless of how well they do. Make it competitive. There will be five French teams in this year's Tour. They employ nearly 100 French cyclists. There are not 100 French cyclists of that quality. Add in the other Pro Conti teams and it's almost 130 riders.OnYourRight wrote:You often tell us what French cycling is doing wrong, RichN95 (I lurk here more than I write). Since I half-think you’re right, I’d like to hear what you think they should do.
2. Start thinking internationally. Stop bothering about the French Cup. This is a big deal for French teams, it shouldn't be.
3. Start recruiting internationally. Most French teams are predominantly French. There's a lot of French riders coasting (see point 1). There are better riders available. Most especially, consider non-French leaders.
4. Find someone with vision and get a big company to back them. Cofidis, AG2R and FdJ are all twenty years old and funded by payday loans and scratchcards. Where are Carrefour or Louis Vuitton? They've been run by the same people with the same money. They are all very much in their comfort zone.
5. Stop thinking they know it all. Someone like Madiot saying that the 'Anglo-Saxons' have nothing to teach the French is just arrogant. Like a rabid Brexiteer.
Essentially French cycling is bloated, complacent, isolationist and blames others for failure. And any rider that shows something is indulged - for example Brice Feillu has probably made a million Euros off the back of his 2009 Tour stage win without ever doing anything of note since.Twitter: @RichN950 -
If we're doing songs, someone who speaks French at a better level than my sh1tty GCSE must be able to come up with something that reworks that godfawful Plastic Bertrand song...Fat chopper. Some racing. Some testing. Some crashing.
Specialising in Git Daaahns and Cafs. Norvern Munkey/Transplanted Laaandoner.0 -
On a minor point of order, Plastic Bertrand is Belgian.0
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These are the eight counting riders who currently hold France third in the UCI rankings ( behind Italy and Belgium) and ahead of Netherlands, GB and Colombia
Very similar ages ie a generation. This is a generation of riders that are post Festina and post Armstrong and have come through a system that was the first to 'change things' and stick to that change. When recently a rider from the 'other generation' foolishly doped it resulted in a national outrage and he was given a prison sentence.
They are up against teams who continue to flaunt the rules and look for grey areas. They hate the cynicism of Sky. The white jerseys and open hands and the dark motives.
There will not be any controversy surrounding these riders or their teams . The sponsors have stuck with them and offered consistency
The poster above makes it sound as though the lottery has clubbed together and got a few good looking lads from the Vendee to 'have a go' - and all the mothers are shouting 'Romain' a la 'Tim' at Wimbledon. A plucky outsider with no chance only national fervour :roll:
BARDET Romain (ALM)
FRA
28
ALAPHILIPPE Julian (QST)
FRA
26
DEMARE Arnaud (GFC)
FRA
27
VUILLERMOZ Alexis (ALM)
FRA
30
GALLOPIN Tony (ALM)
FRA
30
PINOT Thibaut (GFC)
FRA
28
BOUHANNI Nacer (COF)
FRA
28
LAPORTE Christophe (COF)0 -
No tA Doctor wrote:Above The Cows wrote:Hmmmm eclair.
Not sure how much that would help to be honest.
Housewives favourite.
Behave!Correlation is not causation.0 -
SpecialGuestStar wrote:They are up against teams who continue to flaunt the rules and look for grey areas. They hate the cynicism of Sky. The white jerseys and open hands and the dark motives.
What you call flaunting the rules and looking for grey areas, others call R&D and attention to detail.
What you all cynicism others call professionalism.
What you call open hands and dark motives others call a determination to win rather than entertain and finding a way within the rules to do that.
What you fail to mention in all of this is that Sky are phenomenally successful whereas French teams are not. You display exactly the sort of sentiment Rich is talking about, a desire for flair over results, a belief that different ways of doing things, especially if they are successful, must be shady as opposed to just different and better. It's quite funny. It must be like the International Meridian Conference in Washington DC in 1884 where the French couldn't understand why the world just accepted the British system even though they claimed the French system was better. The French failed to realise that the world had moved on, that the world of shipping was already using British charts and navigational tools set to British standards and as much as the French wailed about their superior system and the nefariousness of the British they were not going to get the Germans or the Americans on their side.Correlation is not causation.0 -
Oh cut this misty eyed romanticism (and French nationalism). France had the Festina and Cofidis affairs and still didn't win anything.SpecialGuestStar wrote:They are up against teams who continue to flaunt the rules and look for grey areas. They hate the cynicism of Sky. The white jerseys and open hands and the dark motives.
Sky won the Tour de France for the first time, and how did they react - they dropped the rider who won for someone better.
Last year a Frenchman won two stages and the KOM jerseys for a team which had won the Giro - he reacted by moving to a smaller team so he could be free to ride 'with panache' rather trying to win.
That's your differenceTwitter: @RichN950 -
RichN95 wrote:SpecialGuestStar wrote:They are up against teams who continue to flaunt the rules and look for grey areas. They hate the cynicism of Sky. The white jerseys and open hands and the dark motives.
Sky won the Tour de France for the first time, and how did they react - they dropped the rider who wouldn't be able to get to that weight again for a donkey that doesn't mind following orders
Lots of opinions that's why it's a forum.0 -
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It's nearly a year since they had a win at World Tour levelRick Chasey wrote:AG2R are a pretty good team tbh. Especially given their budget.Twitter: @RichN950 -
RichN95 wrote:Last year a Frenchman won two stages and the KOM jerseys for a team which had won the Giro - he reacted by moving to a smaller team so he could be free to ride 'with panache' rather trying to win.
He also got sent home from the Vuelta for repeatedly not following team orders.Correlation is not causation.0 -
Above The Cows wrote:RichN95 wrote:Last year a Frenchman won two stages and the KOM jerseys for a team which had won the Giro - he reacted by moving to a smaller team so he could be free to ride 'with panache' rather trying to win.
He also got sent home from the Vuelta for repeatedly not following team orders.
There's also a welshman that crashes all the time.
I know you like to draw people with the broad brush of a national stereotype Rich, but you really ought not to.0 -
I doubt Barguil moved down to Pro Continental to express his natural panache or whatever was claimed. It was more the attraction of a solid contract offer, the status of a team built around him, and living in Brittany.
Not sure how far the racing-with-panache excuse can be stretched. To a large extent, you race with panache when you’re not winning. The moment one of these French hopefuls has the yellow jersey on his shoulders, I think everything will change in how the story is told and how French teams and riders see themselves.
AG2R: that team has a pretty decent budget, to be fair.0 -
RichN95 wrote:
It's nearly a year since they had a win at World Tour levelRick Chasey wrote:AG2R are a pretty good team tbh. Especially given their budget.
half way up the world tour table this year, with a budget that's firmly in the bottom half.0 -
And who has won more stage races than Pinot, Bardet, Barguil and Rolland combinedRick Chasey wrote:
There's also a welshman that crashes all the time.Twitter: @RichN950 -
Good for them. The cycling equivalent of Burnley FC then.Rick Chasey wrote:RichN95 wrote:
It's nearly a year since they had a win at World Tour levelRick Chasey wrote:AG2R are a pretty good team tbh. Especially given their budget.
half way up the world tour table this year, with a budget that's firmly in the bottom half.
But that begs the question why is the biggest team in the country with the biggest event in the sport have such a small budget. Why isn't there a French team with a Sky like budget?Twitter: @RichN950 -
“Bottom half” is a bit misleading in that the top teams have comparable budgets (maybe Sky and Katusha excepted). And a few million here or there makes less difference at the top than at the Direct Energie level. When you’ve money to spend on special pillows you’re way, way into diminishing returns. AG2R’s budget is within striking distance of the Mitchelton-Scott and Movistar budgets. I think they could do better, but I don’t know if being French is the problem.
I live in Paris and see a lot of grass-roots cycling talent in France. However, much of the racing scene is still pretty working class. There’s nothing wrong with that and I fit right in, but Louis Vuitton (mentioned up-thread however seriously) isn’t going to see this as the promised land any time soon. I think in the UK cycling is nowadays a lot more aspirational and attractive to investors … which isn’t to say France isn’t slowly going the same way.
Maybe we just need to wait. Even more.0 -
It was just the second big French company I could think of. I really meant their parent company LVMH.OnYourRight wrote:Louis Vuitton (mentioned up-thread however seriously)Twitter: @RichN950 -
RichN95 wrote:
Good for them. The cycling equivalent of Burnley FC then.Rick Chasey wrote:RichN95 wrote:
It's nearly a year since they had a win at World Tour levelRick Chasey wrote:AG2R are a pretty good team tbh. Especially given their budget.
half way up the world tour table this year, with a budget that's firmly in the bottom half.
But that begs the question why is the biggest team in the country with the biggest event in the sport have such a small budget. Why isn't there a French team with a Sky like budget?
I think generally there has been less state investment in sport in France compared to the UK.
Corporate money tends to follow the winners rather than the other way around; sky turned up on the road after monster track success beforehand.
The UK committed to spending a lot on sport for a long time and that eventually paid off.
I also think there's an element of luck.0 -
Louis Vuitton are part of the same group as Pinerello so you never know.OnYourRight wrote:Louis Vuitton (mentioned up-thread however seriously) isn’t going to see this as the promised land any time soon. I think in the UK cycling is nowadays a lot more aspirational and attractive to investors0 -
And TAG Heuer who were rumoured at one point to be taking over from BMC.inseine wrote:
Louis Vuitton are part of the same group as Pinerello so you never know.OnYourRight wrote:Louis Vuitton (mentioned up-thread however seriously) isn’t going to see this as the promised land any time soon. I think in the UK cycling is nowadays a lot more aspirational and attractive to investorsTwitter: @RichN950
