Giro 2018: stage 9, PESCO SANNITA - GRAN SASSO D'ITALIA (Campo Imperatore) 13 May 2018 / Sunday / 22

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Comments

  • thegreatdivide
    thegreatdivide Posts: 5,807
    RichN95 wrote:
    ddraver wrote:
    The problem deV is that for Orica Scott (at the time) it's an unfortunate admin error, however one might imagine that if Sky had made the same mistake the reaction from the cycle-twitterati would not be quite so lenient...

    Froome is potentially about to lose a GT, and a reputation for alleged abuse of the same drug.
    Different drug. Yates needs a TUE for his.

    And I believe that he's given said TUE after going through the required testing set by the UCI? Unlike salbutamol.
  • mfin
    mfin Posts: 6,729
    I wonder if we'll see Froome taking salbutamol on camera this year. I bet the silly sausage is a bit self-conscious about it now.
  • bobmcstuff
    bobmcstuff Posts: 11,435
    DdFtuVJXkAAhcb8.jpg

    Chaves must weigh about as much as my right leg.

    (although apparently Pozzovivo is 1kg lighter)
  • bobmcstuff
    bobmcstuff Posts: 11,435
    thegreatdivide wrote:
    RichN95 wrote:
    ddraver wrote:
    The problem deV is that for Orica Scott (at the time) it's an unfortunate admin error, however one might imagine that if Sky had made the same mistake the reaction from the cycle-twitterati would not be quite so lenient...

    Froome is potentially about to lose a GT, and a reputation for alleged abuse of the same drug.
    Different drug. Yates needs a TUE for his.

    And I believe that he's given said TUE after going through the required testing set by the UCI? Unlike salbutamol.

    There is a bit of insinuation in the Asylum about Yates' TUE but it's miniscule compared to Froome.

    Personally I don't understand why Michelton-Scott get let off so lightly given the history of various members of the organisation. That and their performance this Giro (since winning is normally enough for people to start calling shenanigans). Not that I believe there's anything in particular going on here, it just seems a bit lopsided.
  • dish_dash
    dish_dash Posts: 5,647
    bobmcstuff wrote:
    thegreatdivide wrote:
    RichN95 wrote:
    ddraver wrote:
    The problem deV is that for Orica Scott (at the time) it's an unfortunate admin error, however one might imagine that if Sky had made the same mistake the reaction from the cycle-twitterati would not be quite so lenient...

    Froome is potentially about to lose a GT, and a reputation for alleged abuse of the same drug.
    Different drug. Yates needs a TUE for his.

    And I believe that he's given said TUE after going through the required testing set by the UCI? Unlike salbutamol.

    There is a bit of insinuation in the Asylum about Yates' TUE but it's miniscule compared to Froome.

    Personally I don't understand why Michelton-Scott get let off so lightly given the history of various members of the organisation. That and their performance this Giro (since winning is normally enough for people to start calling shenanigans). Not that I believe there's anything in particular going on here, it just seems a bit lopsided.

    Sky dug their hole with the clearer than clean, zero tolerance BS. Yes, maybe they didn't mean all of it etc. but SirDave did try to pitch Sky as being different and the Media lapped it up.

    The only other similar team is Slipstream. And Vaughters doesn't talk quite as much BS when contradicting a previous position. If anything at that point he just shuts up and most people forget...

    You think Michelton should be questioned for the pink jersey in the first week of the Giro. How about QuickStep for their record this year?
  • Vino'sGhost
    Vino'sGhost Posts: 4,129
    dish_dash wrote:
    bobmcstuff wrote:
    thegreatdivide wrote:
    RichN95 wrote:
    ddraver wrote:
    The problem deV is that for Orica Scott (at the time) it's an unfortunate admin error, however one might imagine that if Sky had made the same mistake the reaction from the cycle-twitterati would not be quite so lenient...

    Froome is potentially about to lose a GT, and a reputation for alleged abuse of the same drug.
    Different drug. Yates needs a TUE for his.

    And I believe that he's given said TUE after going through the required testing set by the UCI? Unlike salbutamol.

    There is a bit of insinuation in the Asylum about Yates' TUE but it's miniscule compared to Froome.

    Personally I don't understand why Michelton-Scott get let off so lightly given the history of various members of the organisation. That and their performance this Giro (since winning is normally enough for people to start calling shenanigans). Not that I believe there's anything in particular going on here, it just seems a bit lopsided.

    Sky dug their hole with the clearer than clean, zero tolerance BS. Yes, maybe they didn't mean all of it etc. but SirDave did try to pitch Sky as being different and the Media lapped it up.

    The only other similar team is Slipstream. And Vaughters doesn't talk quite as much BS when contradicting a previous position. If anything at that point he just shuts up and most people forget...

    You think Michelton should be questioned for the pink jersey in the first week of the Giro. How about QuickStep for their record this year?

    In fairness they hired virtually every classics specialist of note, an abundance of riches
  • bobmcstuff
    bobmcstuff Posts: 11,435
    dish_dash wrote:
    bobmcstuff wrote:
    thegreatdivide wrote:
    RichN95 wrote:
    ddraver wrote:
    The problem deV is that for Orica Scott (at the time) it's an unfortunate admin error, however one might imagine that if Sky had made the same mistake the reaction from the cycle-twitterati would not be quite so lenient...

    Froome is potentially about to lose a GT, and a reputation for alleged abuse of the same drug.
    Different drug. Yates needs a TUE for his.

    And I believe that he's given said TUE after going through the required testing set by the UCI? Unlike salbutamol.

    There is a bit of insinuation in the Asylum about Yates' TUE but it's miniscule compared to Froome.

    Personally I don't understand why Michelton-Scott get let off so lightly given the history of various members of the organisation. That and their performance this Giro (since winning is normally enough for people to start calling shenanigans). Not that I believe there's anything in particular going on here, it just seems a bit lopsided.

    Sky dug their hole with the clearer than clean, zero tolerance BS. Yes, maybe they didn't mean all of it etc. but SirDave did try to pitch Sky as being different and the Media lapped it up.

    The only other similar team is Slipstream. And Vaughters doesn't talk quite as much BS when contradicting a previous position. If anything at that point he just shuts up and most people forget...

    You think Michelton should be questioned for the pink jersey in the first week of the Giro. How about QuickStep for their record this year?

    Sure, Quickstep should be held to the same standard as everyone else.

    I don't really agree that Vaughters has got away with it by talking less BS - the man's a master BS'er. The real reason is no-one cares because he's not winning anything (and perhaps because the team isn't British, maybe he would be getting a lot of stick in the US media if he was winning stuff - but the Mail and BBC wouldn't give a toss).
  • timoid.
    timoid. Posts: 3,133
    Vino'sGhost wrote:

    In fairness they hired virtually every classics specialist of note, an abundance of riches


    If this holds true why not give a pass to Sky's Tour dominance due to buying a squal of Super Domestiques that would be protected riders on any other team?

    You are very inconsistent.
    It's a little like wrestling a gorilla. You don't quit when you're tired. You quit when the gorilla is tired.
  • RichN95.
    RichN95. Posts: 27,253
    dish_dash wrote:

    Sky dug their hole with the clearer than clean, zero tolerance BS. Yes, maybe they didn't mean all of it etc. but SirDave did try to pitch Sky as being different and the Media lapped it up.

    The only other similar team is Slipstream. And Vaughters doesn't talk quite as much BS when contradicting a previous position. If anything at that point he just shuts up and most people forget...
    There's all the MPCC teams. They're the worst of the lot. Survivors of the EPO years lecturing the rest of peloton on their higher moral standards.
    Twitter: @RichN95
  • Vino'sGhost
    Vino'sGhost Posts: 4,129
    Timoid. wrote:
    Vino'sGhost wrote:

    In fairness they hired virtually every classics specialist of note, an abundance of riches


    If this holds true why not give a pass to Sky's Tour dominance due to buying a squal of Super Domestiques that would be protected riders on any other team?

    You are very inconsistent.

    Im actually consistent. my comment above was that its not surprising they won so many of the classics and cobbled early season races because they had virtually all the contenders.

    Sky hasnt got every superdomestique by any stretch of the imagination, Astana demonstrated that well yesterday with its entire team on the front in the end and Mitchelton Scott put none other thant tuft on the front for hours. Movistar have a very strong team for GC.

    In anycase i dont have an issue with skys dominance and never have had.
  • carbonclem
    carbonclem Posts: 1,784
    RichN95 wrote:
    dish_dash wrote:

    Sky dug their hole with the clearer than clean, zero tolerance BS. Yes, maybe they didn't mean all of it etc. but SirDave did try to pitch Sky as being different and the Media lapped it up.

    The only other similar team is Slipstream. And Vaughters doesn't talk quite as much BS when contradicting a previous position. If anything at that point he just shuts up and most people forget...
    There's all the MPCC teams. They're the worst of the lot. Survivors of the EPO years lecturing the rest of peloton on their higher moral standards.

    Always makes me smile when people talk about Sky pretending to be holier than thou, when the whole MPCC thing with other teams gets ignored :D
    2020/2021/2022 Metric Century Challenge Winner
  • DeVlaeminck
    DeVlaeminck Posts: 9,104
    Still can't see why anyone thinks Yates or Orica (or the current incarnation) are getting an easy ride.

    Unless people are questioning the veracity of their account Yates is actually an innocent victim in all this having served a ban for what most would consider was something beyond his control - yes I know technically the rider is responsible but does anyone reasonably expect a young rider to double check something the team have told him they would do ?

    As for the team - well it's a bit of a non-story isn't it. There is no interest in the fact that Orica's procedures were less than watertight - it doesn't really cast any suspicion on their riders - there is no reason for any journalist to make a thing out of it.

    It may be that we consider Sky and Froome are getting an unnecessarily hard ride over the salbutamol affair but that's another matter.
    [Castle Donington Ladies FC - going up in '22]
  • RichN95.
    RichN95. Posts: 27,253
    DeVlaeminck wrote:
    Still can't see why anyone thinks Yates or Orica (or the current incarnation) are getting an easy ride.

    Unless people are questioning the veracity of their account Yates is actually an innocent victim in all this having served a ban for what most would consider was something beyond his control - yes I know technically the rider is responsible but does anyone reasonably expect a young rider to double check something the team have told him they would do ?

    As for the team - well it's a bit of a non-story isn't it. There is no interest in the fact that Orica's procedures were less than watertight - it doesn't really cast any suspicion on their riders - there is no reason for any journalist to make a thing out of it.

    It may be that we consider Sky and Froome are getting an unnecessarily hard ride over the salbutamol affair but that's another matter.
    It's nothing specific to Yates. But only a few months ago TUEs and asthma inhalers apparently presented an existential crisis to whole sport. Every interview asked riders about it. Yet now, with the only major rider known to have a permanent TUE (for asthma) leading the Giro, it no longer seems to be an issue. What changed?
    Twitter: @RichN95
  • Mad_Malx
    Mad_Malx Posts: 5,182
    I'm looking forward to tomorrow when we can argue about the proper regional food
  • Vino'sGhost
    Vino'sGhost Posts: 4,129
    RichN95 wrote:
    DeVlaeminck wrote:
    Still can't see why anyone thinks Yates or Orica (or the current incarnation) are getting an easy ride.

    Unless people are questioning the veracity of their account Yates is actually an innocent victim in all this having served a ban for what most would consider was something beyond his control - yes I know technically the rider is responsible but does anyone reasonably expect a young rider to double check something the team have told him they would do ?

    As for the team - well it's a bit of a non-story isn't it. There is no interest in the fact that Orica's procedures were less than watertight - it doesn't really cast any suspicion on their riders - there is no reason for any journalist to make a thing out of it.

    It may be that we consider Sky and Froome are getting an unnecessarily hard ride over the salbutamol affair but that's another matter.
    It's nothing specific to Yates. But only a few months ago TUEs and asthma inhalers apparently presented an existential crisis to whole sport. Every interview asked riders about it. Yet now, with the only major rider known to have a permanent TUE (for asthma) leading the Giro, it no longer seems to be an issue. What changed?

    Whats changed is there is no suggestion that Yates TUE was anything other than that. The previous issue was surrounding the veracity of statements relating to need that led to other TUE's being issued.

    Its a totally different situation and DeVlaeminck summed the whole thing up perfectly
  • mididoctors
    mididoctors Posts: 18,908
    Simon Yates accepts four-month ban and apologises. the end.
    "If I was a 38 year old man, I definitely wouldn't be riding a bright yellow bike with Hello Kitty disc wheels, put it that way. What we're witnessing here is the world's most high profile mid-life crisis" Afx237vi Mon Jul 20, 2009 2:43 pm
  • Vino'sGhost
    Vino'sGhost Posts: 4,129
    mididoctors wrote:
    Simon Yates accepts four-month ban and apologises. the end.
    Exactly that.
  • ddraver
    ddraver Posts: 26,695
    bobmcstuff wrote:
    dish_dash wrote:
    bobmcstuff wrote:
    thegreatdivide wrote:
    RichN95 wrote:
    ddraver wrote:
    The problem deV is that for Orica Scott (at the time) it's an unfortunate admin error, however one might imagine that if Sky had made the same mistake the reaction from the cycle-twitterati would not be quite so lenient...

    Froome is potentially about to lose a GT, and a reputation for alleged abuse of the same drug.
    Different drug. Yates needs a TUE for his.

    And I believe that he's given said TUE after going through the required testing set by the UCI? Unlike salbutamol.

    There is a bit of insinuation in the Asylum about Yates' TUE but it's miniscule compared to Froome.

    Personally I don't understand why Michelton-Scott get let off so lightly given the history of various members of the organisation. That and their performance this Giro (since winning is normally enough for people to start calling shenanigans). Not that I believe there's anything in particular going on here, it just seems a bit lopsided.

    Sky dug their hole with the clearer than clean, zero tolerance BS. Yes, maybe they didn't mean all of it etc. but SirDave did try to pitch Sky as being different and the Media lapped it up.

    The only other similar team is Slipstream. And Vaughters doesn't talk quite as much BS when contradicting a previous position. If anything at that point he just shuts up and most people forget...

    You think Michelton should be questioned for the pink jersey in the first week of the Giro. How about QuickStep for their record this year?

    Sure, Quickstep should be held to the same standard as everyone else.

    I don't really agree that Vaughters has got away with it by talking less BS - the man's a master BS'er. The real reason is no-one cares because he's not winning anything (and perhaps because the team isn't British, maybe he would be getting a lot of stick in the US media if he was winning stuff - but the Mail and BBC wouldn't give a toss).

    Whilst I do see what you mean dish.

    The flipside I always see with that argument is that if I start a team tomorrow and say, 'F88k it, we re gonna take whatever we can get our filthy little hands on', Do I get a free doping pass?
    We're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
    - @ddraver
  • m.r.m.
    m.r.m. Posts: 3,473
    DeVlaeminck wrote:
    Still can't see why anyone thinks Yates or Orica (or the current incarnation) are getting an easy ride.
    Think he is being used as a straw man to convince Vino's Ghost of the fallacy of his position.
    PTP Champion 2019, 2022 & 2023
  • knedlicky
    knedlicky Posts: 3,097
    Above The Cows wrote:
    I have to add this climb to my to-do list.
    If you do, remember to take some warm clothing for when resting up top, then the descent.
    About 10 years ago, I went up from near Rieti, via L'Aquila, and joined this stage route about 10 kms from the finish. Down at Rieti it was about 30 deg C, but at the top it was only just above freezing. And that in August !
  • ridgerider
    ridgerider Posts: 2,852
    DeVlaeminck wrote:
    Still can't see why anyone thinks Yates or Orica (or the current incarnation) are getting an easy ride.
    I think it's because no-one is asking whether the guy has needed medication since he was a child, only when pollen is in the air, or just before each Grand Tour he competes in.
    Half man, Half bike
  • knedlicky
    knedlicky Posts: 3,097
    Blazing Saddles wrote:
    Bottom line is that Eurosport carries the blame.
    They display apathy towards cycling fans globally, by indulging someone with such ineptitude.
    Not 'globally', because (fortunately) he isn't a commentator on other (foreign language) Eurosport cycling coverage.
    He does appear different in that (unless I'm mistaken) his cycling experince is having a paper-round as a youth, whereas the other Eurosport GT commentators have at least done, if not always road racing, then at least cyclo-cross or similar at a fairly high level.
  • blazing_saddles
    blazing_saddles Posts: 22,725
    knedlicky wrote:
    Blazing Saddles wrote:
    Bottom line is that Eurosport carries the blame.
    They display apathy towards cycling fans globally, by indulging someone with such ineptitude.
    Not 'globally', because (fortunately) he isn't a commentator on other (foreign language) Eurosport cycling coverage.
    He does appear different in that (unless I'm mistaken) his cycling experince is having a paper-round as a youth, whereas the other Eurosport GT commentators have at least done, if not always road racing, then at least cyclo-cross or similar at a fairly high level.

    Normally yes, but much of Europe got stuck with him, for some reason, yesterday.
    Feeds and whatnot.
    "Science is a tool for cheaters". An anonymous French PE teacher.
  • dstev55
    dstev55 Posts: 742
    Ridgerider wrote:
    DeVlaeminck wrote:
    Still can't see why anyone thinks Yates or Orica (or the current incarnation) are getting an easy ride.
    I think it's because no-one is asking whether the guy has needed medication since he was a child, only when pollen is in the air, or just before each Grand Tour he competes in.

    Is there any GC rider you can't point a finger at for one reason or another? :roll:

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