Discs: Big thread?

13

Comments

  • kajjal
    kajjal Posts: 3,380
    If you need a pad spreader on every ride there is a problem with your brakes , unless you are going through a set of pads each ride.
  • veronese68
    veronese68 Posts: 27,683
    Kajjal wrote:
    If you need a pad spreader on every ride there is a problem with your brakes , unless you are going through a set of pads each ride.
    There is definitely a problem, I’m not convinced it’s the brakes.
    Kinesis Pro6
    Marin Nail Trail
    Cotic Solaris
  • webboo
    webboo Posts: 6,087
    Does he need to use it because he’s so pumped from braking.
  • chippyk
    chippyk Posts: 529
    Anyone would think for the past 50 years there has been a huge problem with stopping, tyre choice, modulation, rim wear and god knows what else. FFS, just buy a bike you like that does the job you want it to do, ride it, look after and enjoy it.
  • dstev55
    dstev55 Posts: 742
    Yet another instance of my discs stopping better than rim brakes.

    6-7% decline, I was on the front, 5 others behind, i could see 2 cars slowing for a right turn, warned everyone as early as I could slowed a little then had to brake hard. 2 guys with Dura Ace rim brakes and carbon wheels couldnt stop as quick as me, one mounted the pavement the other somehow didn't hit the car. One of the guys lighter than me too. Bone dry conditions.
  • tomisitt
    tomisitt Posts: 257
    dstev55 wrote:
    Yet another instance of my discs stopping better than rim brakes.

    6-7% decline, I was on the front, 5 others behind, i could see 2 cars slowing for a right turn, warned everyone as early as I could slowed a little then had to brake hard. 2 guys with Dura Ace rim brakes and carbon wheels couldnt stop as quick as me, one mounted the pavement the other somehow didn't hit the car. One of the guys lighter than me too. Bone dry conditions.

    I don’t think anyone’s arguing that carbon rim brakes are as good as discs, so your point is moot. Also, you have to take into account that you didn’t brake smoothly, the guys behind may have been unsighted, and they needed time to react to your sudden deceleration. Decent quality rim brakes on ally rims will stop you just as quickly as discs in dry conditions. As the OP is building up a summer bike, I’d suggest he goes with rim brakes.
  • sloppyschleckonds
    sloppyschleckonds Posts: 8,019
    dstev55 wrote:
    Yet another instance of my discs stopping better than rim brakes.

    6-7% decline, I was on the front, 5 others behind, i could see 2 cars slowing for a right turn, warned everyone as early as I could slowed a little then had to brake hard. 2 guys with Dura Ace rim brakes and carbon wheels couldnt stop as quick as me, one mounted the pavement the other somehow didn't hit the car. One of the guys lighter than me too. Bone dry conditions.

    You sound a nightmare to ride with, I'll go with what JGSI said about you and your buddy
    JGSI wrote:
    Pair of choppers both of you.
    I'm sorry you don't believe in miracles
  • dstev55
    dstev55 Posts: 742
    SloppySchleckonds wrote:
    dstev55 wrote:
    Yet another instance of my discs stopping better than rim brakes.

    6-7% decline, I was on the front, 5 others behind, i could see 2 cars slowing for a right turn, warned everyone as early as I could slowed a little then had to brake hard. 2 guys with Dura Ace rim brakes and carbon wheels couldnt stop as quick as me, one mounted the pavement the other somehow didn't hit the car. One of the guys lighter than me too. Bone dry conditions.

    You sound a nightmare to ride with, I'll go with what JGSI said about you and your buddy
    JGSI wrote:
    Pair of choppers both of you.

    Nothing wrong with my riding. They were warned plenty early enough and probably should have left a bit more of a gap between them and me considering we were descending.

    I've never been involved in an accident either with just myself or anyone else in 3 years of riding so I'm safe in the knowledge I group ride in a safe and considerate manner.
  • milemuncher1
    milemuncher1 Posts: 1,472
    Kajjal wrote:
    If you need a pad spreader on every ride there is a problem with your brakes , unless you are going through a set of pads each ride.

    No particular problems, I just can’t be bothered buggering about with the bolts on the calliper at the side of the road, much easier to keep it quiet with a spreader, then recenter the calipers when home, where I’ve got a torque wrench.
  • milemuncher1
    milemuncher1 Posts: 1,472
    dstev55 wrote:
    Yet another instance of my discs stopping better than rim brakes.

    6-7% decline, I was on the front, 5 others behind, i could see 2 cars slowing for a right turn, warned everyone as early as I could slowed a little then had to brake hard. 2 guys with Dura Ace rim brakes and carbon wheels couldnt stop as quick as me, one mounted the pavement the other somehow didn't hit the car. One of the guys lighter than me too. Bone dry conditions.


    And a prime example of why I hate disc brakes mixed in with rim brakes, on an amateur group ride. I’m expecting the descent of Leith on the PRLS, to resemble a missile range this year.
  • milemuncher1
    milemuncher1 Posts: 1,472
    dstev55 wrote:

    Nothing wrong with my riding. They were warned plenty early enough and probably should have left a bit more of a gap between them and me considering we were descending.

    I've never been involved in an accident either with just myself or anyone else in 3 years of riding so I'm safe in the knowledge I group ride in a safe and considerate manner.

    I always try to get the disc brakes riders to ride at the back of the group, where possible, on flat bits or descents. Sometimes they do, sometimes they decide to be the hero, and ignore the advice, which causes problems, in a mixed bunch, as long as everyone acknowledges that I’ve asked the group to form up / ride in that manner, my back is covered if it goes tits up. The penny is starting to drop, we’re not there yet though.
  • milemuncher1
    milemuncher1 Posts: 1,472
    Livewire wrote:
    Milemuncher1 wrote:
    Livewire wrote:
    Milemuncher1 wrote:
    jimmurray wrote:
    Milemuncher1 wrote:
    jimmurray wrote:
    My ride was ruined on Saturday because of issues with front disk brake, shimano hydraulic, on my Tarmac. Screaming and resonating off and on throughout the ride. Only sure way to stop it was to ride out of saddle with weight over front wheel or ride with front brake lightly applied.

    I’ve had that, it’s beyond irritating.

    Did you find out why it was doing it and how to fixt it? I had 11 hours of it on Saturday.

    It was doing it because the pads weren’t completely flat in the calipers. I bought one of these.

    YXu1FZR.jpg

    It’s a pad spreader. As soon as I pushed it in between the pads, and put the wheel back in, it stopped the squealing. I have to remember to take it with me if I’m riding the bike with the disc brakes, because it happens every time I take the wheels out to fix a puncture.

    You don't need to carry a pad spreader with you on every ride, you need to centre the calliper over the disc properly.

    Until it gets knocked, then the spreader works to get you home quietly.

    Even on the off chance the caliper was knocked you still don't need to carry a spreader, you can use any number of things to push the brake pads back into the caliper. A flat stone off of the floor will even do the job. I would however just use my front door key as I carry that when I am out on the bike.

    The spreader won’t gouge the pads, or contaminate them, both things are bad news for the pads.
  • green_mark
    green_mark Posts: 74
    dstev55 wrote:
    Ok so let's start listing some pros and cons:

    I don't count greater tyre clearances as an advantage of discs because this is nothing to do with the nature or discs vs. rim brakes, just the availability of long-drop rim brakes, which tend not to be fitted as standard on road bikes. My winter bike has rim brakes that can cope with 35mm cyclocross tyres if I take the mudguards off.
    [/quote]

    You're missing out that long-drop calipers have less leverage and therefore less braking power than short-reach calipers, which in turn are poorer than discs. So there is a big advantage of discs in providing larger tyre clearances without decreasing braking power.

    And with those larger tyres you get better braking performance on both dry and wet - larger equals gripper equals more braking force before you have an uncontrolled skid.
  • dstev55
    dstev55 Posts: 742
    Milemuncher1 wrote:
    dstev55 wrote:

    Nothing wrong with my riding. They were warned plenty early enough and probably should have left a bit more of a gap between them and me considering we were descending.

    I've never been involved in an accident either with just myself or anyone else in 3 years of riding so I'm safe in the knowledge I group ride in a safe and considerate manner.

    I always try to get the disc brakes riders to ride at the back of the group, where possible, on flat bits or descents. Sometimes they do, sometimes they decide to be the hero, and ignore the advice, which causes problems, in a mixed bunch, as long as everyone acknowledges that I’ve asked the group to form up / ride in that manner, my back is covered if it goes tits up. The penny is starting to drop, we’re not there yet though.

    It's a good point but where do you draw the line? What I mean is doing what you say means I have to sacrifice my training (by sitting on the back) to try and potentially avoid an accident. We've got all on some of them doing a turn on the front at all! What do we do, all set a date where we go and buy a disc brake bike together?
  • lettingthedaysgoby
    lettingthedaysgoby Posts: 1,732
    Strange, my club rides always feature a mixture of both types and we all just ride wherever we want in the bunch and don't seem to have any crashes whatsoever.

    As for having to carry a pad spreader on every ride, lol Learn to change a wheel.
  • First.Aspect
    First.Aspect Posts: 16,604
    I've never had much difficulty applying too much braking for the tyres I'm using, regardless of whether the rim is alloy or carbon or whether I've been using cable or hydraulic discs.

    Undoubtedly, hydraulic discs are nicer to use and you have to think about how to use them less (but they are not maintenance free and I find myself having to fiddle with them much more often than rim brakes). What this adds up to is that you are more likely to get it right using disc brakes, so you are more confident and probably faster going down a hill. But I don't think you will see pros with discs coming to the front on long descents, because those on rim brakes will also know how to use them to the limit.

    I don't think even the pros think that a mix of braking systems is causing crashes in the peloton any more - that's just a silly mantra in my view. If you think that, why are you only worried about disc/rim brakes? Why not separate out heavy people and make sure that they don't ride behind whippets? Or sift them out according to tyre width and pressure?

    Or would that just be stupid?
  • raisinberry777
    raisinberry777 Posts: 141
    Milemuncher1 wrote:
    I always try to get the disc brakes riders to ride at the back of the group, where possible, on flat bits or descents. Sometimes they do, sometimes they decide to be the hero, and ignore the advice, which causes problems, in a mixed bunch, as long as everyone acknowledges that I’ve asked the group to form up / ride in that manner, my back is covered if it goes tits up. The penny is starting to drop, we’re not there yet though.

    If the riders in your group are this bad, then I would suggest it is the group that is the problem, rather than the bikes.

    Somehow, group rides all around the world are managing just fine with riders on bikes mixed between disc and non-disc.
  • Livewire
    Livewire Posts: 91
    Milemuncher1 wrote:
    Livewire wrote:
    Milemuncher1 wrote:
    Livewire wrote:
    Milemuncher1 wrote:
    jimmurray wrote:
    Milemuncher1 wrote:
    jimmurray wrote:
    My ride was ruined on Saturday because of issues with front disk brake, shimano hydraulic, on my Tarmac. Screaming and resonating off and on throughout the ride. Only sure way to stop it was to ride out of saddle with weight over front wheel or ride with front brake lightly applied.

    I’ve had that, it’s beyond irritating.

    Did you find out why it was doing it and how to fixt it? I had 11 hours of it on Saturday.

    It was doing it because the pads weren’t completely flat in the calipers. I bought one of these.

    YXu1FZR.jpg

    It’s a pad spreader. As soon as I pushed it in between the pads, and put the wheel back in, it stopped the squealing. I have to remember to take it with me if I’m riding the bike with the disc brakes, because it happens every time I take the wheels out to fix a puncture.

    You don't need to carry a pad spreader with you on every ride, you need to centre the calliper over the disc properly.

    Until it gets knocked, then the spreader works to get you home quietly.

    Even on the off chance the caliper was knocked you still don't need to carry a spreader, you can use any number of things to push the brake pads back into the caliper. A flat stone off of the floor will even do the job. I would however just use my front door key as I carry that when I am out on the bike.

    The spreader won’t gouge the pads, or contaminate them, both things are bad news for the pads.

    Nor will my front door key, or hundreds of things you can find lying on the ground.
  • thegreatdivide
    thegreatdivide Posts: 5,807
    dstev55 wrote:
    I've never been involved in an accident either with just myself or anyone else in 3 years of riding so I'm safe in the knowledge I group ride in a safe and considerate manner.

    There’s the kicker – you’ve only been riding for three years. If you think you’re safe you’re living in a dream. Everyone crashes eventually. It’s the nature of the sport you’ve chosen. Looking back at my crashes have I ever thought if I’d had discs that would never have happened? Nope.
  • First.Aspect
    First.Aspect Posts: 16,604
    dstev55 wrote:
    Yet another instance of my discs stopping better than rim brakes.

    6-7% decline, I was on the front, 5 others behind, i could see 2 cars slowing for a right turn, warned everyone as early as I could slowed a little then had to brake hard. 2 guys with Dura Ace rim brakes and carbon wheels couldnt stop as quick as me, one mounted the pavement the other somehow didn't hit the car. One of the guys lighter than me too. Bone dry conditions.
    You were on the front with more warming and a better view. Even if you were letting them know they will still have delayed while they figured out what you were flapppng about. This is a frequently encountered concertina effect when riding in groups.

    Same thing happens on motorways.

    There were three of you. If you were the only one wearing a gilet would that also be the cause!
  • 3wheeler
    3wheeler Posts: 110
    JAMIE4759 wrote:
    ...
    Now that disc brakes on road bikes have been around for a few years, how are those that use them finding them? ...

    It's always funny how many people who don't have (or want) disc brakes feel the need to post on a thread about them. :D
  • dstev55
    dstev55 Posts: 742
    First Aspect wrote:
    dstev55 wrote:
    Yet another instance of my discs stopping better than rim brakes.

    6-7% decline, I was on the front, 5 others behind, i could see 2 cars slowing for a right turn, warned everyone as early as I could slowed a little then had to brake hard. 2 guys with Dura Ace rim brakes and carbon wheels couldnt stop as quick as me, one mounted the pavement the other somehow didn't hit the car. One of the guys lighter than me too. Bone dry conditions.
    You were on the front with more warming and a better view. Even if you were letting them know they will still have delayed while they figured out what you were flapppng about. This is a frequently encountered concertina effect when riding in groups.

    Same thing happens on motorways.

    There were three of you. If you were the only one wearing a gilet would that also be the cause!

    But it is the motorists responsibility to maintain a gap that is sufficient to allow for reaction and braking times. On a descent I think the same should apply to cyclists.

    I don't believe I was doing anything wrong in leading my group and I had no complaints from the cyclists who overcooked it.
  • dstev55
    dstev55 Posts: 742
    thegreatdivide wrote:
    dstev55 wrote:
    I've never been involved in an accident either with just myself or anyone else in 3 years of riding so I'm safe in the knowledge I group ride in a safe and considerate manner.

    There’s the kicker – you’ve only been riding for three years. If you think you’re safe you’re living in a dream. Everyone crashes eventually. It’s the nature of the sport you’ve chosen. Looking back at my crashes have I ever thought if I’d had discs that would never have happened? Nope.

    So how many years do I have to be riding to become a safe rider? Please let me know sò I can put the date in my diary.... :roll:
  • pamplemoose
    pamplemoose Posts: 85
    3wheeler wrote:
    It's always funny how many people who don't have (or want) disc brakes feel the need to post on a thread about them. :D

    Or people who’ve never even tried the current generation of hydro road discs.

    Anecdotally, I know many members of my club have switched to discs (myself included) and not one of them wishes they had rim brakes instead. It’s not a case of “I’ve bought something so it must be amazing”, discs are just really good.
  • noodleman
    noodleman Posts: 852
    pamplemoose wrote:
    3wheeler wrote:
    It's always funny how many people who don't have (or want) disc brakes feel the need to post on a thread about them. :D

    Or people who’ve never even tried the current generation of hydro road discs.

    Anecdotally, I know many members of my club have switched to discs (myself included) and not one of them wishes they had rim brakes instead. It’s not a case of “I’ve bought something so it must be amazing”, discs are just really good.

    Take that back! First hand experience counts for nothing here!!
    argon 18 e116 2013 Vision Metron 80
    Bianchi Oltre XR Sram Red E-tap, Fulcrum racing speed xlr
    De Rosa SK pininfarina disc
    S Works Tarmac e-tap 2017
    Rose pro sl disc
  • thegreatdivide
    thegreatdivide Posts: 5,807
    dstev55 wrote:
    thegreatdivide wrote:
    dstev55 wrote:
    I've never been involved in an accident either with just myself or anyone else in 3 years of riding so I'm safe in the knowledge I group ride in a safe and considerate manner.

    There’s the kicker – you’ve only been riding for three years. If you think you’re safe you’re living in a dream. Everyone crashes eventually. It’s the nature of the sport you’ve chosen. Looking back at my crashes have I ever thought if I’d had discs that would never have happened? Nope.

    So how many years do I have to be riding to become a safe rider? Please let me know sò I can put the date in my diary.... :roll:

    Read my post again.
  • sloppyschleckonds
    sloppyschleckonds Posts: 8,019
    pamplemoose wrote:
    3wheeler wrote:
    It's always funny how many people who don't have (or want) disc brakes feel the need to post on a thread about them. :D

    Or people who’ve never even tried the current generation of hydro road discs.

    Anecdotally, I know many members of my club have switched to discs (myself included) and not one of them wishes they had rim brakes instead. It’s not a case of “I’ve bought something so it must be amazing”, discs are just really good.

    Anyway......
    JAMIE4759 wrote:
    Are discs really necessary for summer?
    I'm sorry you don't believe in miracles
  • veronese68
    veronese68 Posts: 27,683
    SloppySchleckonds wrote:
    Anyway......
    JAMIE4759 wrote:
    Are discs really necessary for summer?
    This is the UK, we had our two day allocation of summer a couple of weeks ago.
    Kinesis Pro6
    Marin Nail Trail
    Cotic Solaris
  • First.Aspect
    First.Aspect Posts: 16,604
    dstev55 wrote:
    First Aspect wrote:
    dstev55 wrote:
    Yet another instance of my discs stopping better than rim brakes.

    6-7% decline, I was on the front, 5 others behind, i could see 2 cars slowing for a right turn, warned everyone as early as I could slowed a little then had to brake hard. 2 guys with Dura Ace rim brakes and carbon wheels couldnt stop as quick as me, one mounted the pavement the other somehow didn't hit the car. One of the guys lighter than me too. Bone dry conditions.
    You were on the front with more warming and a better view. Even if you were letting them know they will still have delayed while they figured out what you were flapppng about. This is a frequently encountered concertina effect when riding in groups.

    Same thing happens on motorways.

    There were three of you. If you were the only one wearing a gilet would that also be the cause!

    But it is the motorists responsibility to maintain a gap that is sufficient to allow for reaction and braking times. On a descent I think the same should apply to cyclists.

    I don't believe I was doing anything wrong in leading my group and I had no complaints from the cyclists who overcooked it.
    It wasn't a criticism of your riding just an explanation of what can happen that doesn't recourse to the differences in equipment.
  • veronese68
    veronese68 Posts: 27,683
    3wheeler wrote:
    JAMIE4759 wrote:
    ...
    Now that disc brakes on road bikes have been around for a few years, how are those that use them finding them? ...
    It's always funny how many people who don't have (or want) disc brakes feel the need to post on a thread about them. :D
    Indeed, the naysayers are those without discs, not many with discs that don't like them. We had one that had a squealing issue on a ride and MM waffling about having to carry a muckspreader and idiots being unable to cope with differences in braking ability. The fact that the difference in braking ability negates the stuff being spouted about rim brakes being so good you don't need better brakes seems lost on the naysayers. Presumably this is because they are too good to need better brakes or maybe some of it is BS.
    I've got discs, I think they're great.
    Kinesis Pro6
    Marin Nail Trail
    Cotic Solaris

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