Discs: Big thread?

jamie4759

Hello all,

Please don't shout, but this is a rim v disc question.

Now that disc brakes on road bikes have been around for a few years, how are those that use them finding them? Good and bad points appreciated. I can't recall a time where I thought that rim brakes were insufficient, but I suppose we said that about 11 speed! Anyway, looking at options for a summer build. Are discs really necessary for summer? The only thing in my mind is whether rim brakes will be obsolete in a few years time. On the other hand, is there a common standard for discs yet, or are they still evolving?

All views appreciated.

timothyw

JAMIE4759 wrote:

Are discs really necessary for summer?

No. Unless it's rather wet, or you want to run really flash carbon rims that you don't want to wear with braking.

jgsi

You should rename to thru axle thread... more of a sea change for road bikes as the years pass by and frames get developed.

dstev55

TimothyW wrote:

JAMIE4759 wrote:

Are discs really necessary for summer?

No. Unless it's rather wet, or you want to run really flash carbon rims that you don't want to wear with braking.

Went down a few 10%+ descents today and I definitely stopped quicker and easier with discs. In fact going down one of them, me and another chap misjudged a corner, I broke hard and locked the rear wheel momentarily but got round OK, he did the same on rim brakes and couldn't stop in time and ended up on his side.

jgsi

Thats down to bike handling ability, nothing more.

dstev55

JGSI wrote:

Thats down to bike handling ability, nothing more.

Bullshit. The guy that came off was much more experienced and generally a better descender than me. There's no doubt the extra stopping power of my hydraulic discs had a say.

noodleman

dstev55 wrote:

JGSI wrote:

Thats down to bike handling ability, nothing more.

Bullshit. The guy that came off was much more experienced and generally a better descender than me. There's no doubt the extra stopping power of my hydraulic discs had a say.

I have both disc and rim bikes and so does my mate. If I'm ever following him when he's on rim brakes there's never an issue but if he takes his disc bike and I'm on rim's I'm forever getting caught out when he's braking in front of me. Whether it's poor road surfaces, fast decsents or braking in traffic I often find myself ending up getting caught out by his seemingly stronger braking. This never happens if I'm on discs too or he's on his rim braked bike. Read into it what you like but in my experience there's far more benefit to discs than the old wet weather chestnut.

jgsi

Pair of choppers both of you.

neeb

I think rim brake options are going to be around for a long time to come on high end bikes because there will always be enough people who really don't need discs and really don't want to put up with the extra complication and other minor trade-offs that they come with. They have their applications, but that's not on a performance summer road bike IMO, unless perhaps you live somewhere very hilly and/or are on the heavier side.

What's going to be interesting is seeing which manufacturers continue to make rim brake frames with appropriately optimised geometry, as opposed to just selling the disk frame with rim brakes bolted on.. Disc brakes necessitate compromises with frame geometry such as longer chainstays, which potentially detract from ride characteristics. It's already becoming apparent with new releases which manufacturers are continuing to support rim brakes.

E.g.
Hall of shame - BMC
The new SLR01 has the same geometry in rim and disc versions, with 410mm long chainstays. The previous SLR01 had 402mm chainstays which doubtless played a significant part in the way the bike rode (it was widely acknowledged to be one of the best riding bikes out there in terms of responsiveness, and I'll bet the new version doesn't ride as well).

Thumbs up - Specialized
The new Tarmac SL6 has optimised geometries for rim and disc versions, with 405mm chainstays on the rim version and 410mm on the disc version. This is very nice to see.

cycleclinic

I am still on spyres and I like them. The only issue I have is the campag brake levers not having the right cable pull. Some brake pads are better than others too.

Apart from the cost of the kit and that only applies to hydraulic kit there are no down sides.

The lack of rim wear is real bonus. I am not bothered by bike weight so I discount that. Still u have only one road bike with disc brakes and j don't plan to have another one.

veronese68

I am convinced of the advantages of discs for me, but if I was lighter and it was a bike I’d only ride in good weather I’d think twice. Then probably go disc anyway.
There are plenty of naysayers and they can do as they wish, that’s just my preference.

thistle_

Swapped road bike to hydraulic discs in November, perfect choice through the winter. When it's wet You don't have to brake 2-3 seconds before you want to slow down. I've had hydro discs on my mountain bikes for years.

Now it's dry (drier) I'd still choose them over rim brakes, they're just predictable and work. After 1000+ miles of use, they're still as good as my 105 rim brakes were when new. Much more confident on the descents because the brakes are more powerful and I have more confidence in them.

I'd stay away from cable disc brakes based on previous bad experiences years ago, although that was mainly due to the high maintenance needed keeping the cables clean so the calipers didn't keep sticking. Cable disc calipers may be better these days.

neeb

thistle (MBNW) wrote:

Now it's dry (drier) I'd still choose them over rim brakes, they're just predictable and work. After 1000+ miles of use, they're still as good as my 105 rim brakes were when new.

I get several thousands of miles every year on my rim brakes and hardly ever even have to replace the pads (once every year or two or something). Never noticed any deterioration from new either.

But maybe that's the best test of whether you need disc brakes - if you regularly wear out rim brake pads then perhaps you are breaking often enough and hard enough to make discs useful and make rim wear a significant consideration. If you don't, then you don't.

cycleclinic

I know if I had only one road bike I would be replacing rims twice a year. fortunately, I have 19 and I think I have found no 20. so it take a little while longer to wear them out but even then I am normally replacing worn rims once a year or so on one set.

Wet weather wears rims quickly. If your getting home late then you wont be cleaning the rims before putting it away. Neeb must avoid the wet day or never brakes. the latter is not a bad solution.

green_mark

I thought the main advantage of discs is that it allows you to use wider rims and thus larger tyres thus lower pressures.
So you'll get the braking and cornering advantage even when it is dry.

dstev55

Ok so let's start listing some pros and cons:

Pros
Greater stopping power
Less likely to be affected by fade under heavy use
Much less likely to be affected by water
Elimination of rim wear
No risk of damaging carbon rims due to heat build up
Allows greater clearances for bigger tyres

Cons
More expensive
Heavier than rim brakes
Aesthetics (subjective but a negative for most)
More expensive Hydraulic brakes much better than cable brakes
Complicated wheel standards

Feel free to copy and paste and add anything else!

veronese68

dstev55 wrote:

More expensive Hydraulic brakes much better than cable brakes.

That's only really a con if you have cable discs.
I agree with the rest of what you wrote. I mitigated the changing wheel standards thing by buying hubs that have interchangeable end caps for the last 2 sets of wheels I built. I believe some wheels are now supplied with a variety of end caps for the same reason. Irritating all the same I accept.
Another pro is you can ride with a buckled wheel and still have brakes, unless the buckle is so bad the rim hits the frame that is.

DeVlaeminck

dstev55 wrote:

Ok so let's start listing some pros and cons:

Pros
Greater stopping power
Less likely to be affected by fade under heavy use
Much less likely to be affected by water
Elimination of rim wear
No risk of damaging carbon rims due to heat build up
Allows greater clearances for bigger tyres

Cons
More expensive
Heavier than rim brakes
Aesthetics (subjective but a negative for most)
More expensive Hydraulic brakes much better than cable brakes
Complicated wheel standards

Feel free to copy and paste and add anything else!

I'm not sure more power is a pro, decent rim brakes have sufficient power, I've seen it argued more power allows for better modulation though personally I like the modulation of rim brakes and find discs a bit dead. I've never suffered brake fade on rim brakes either, is that even a thing? I think the pros are no rim wear, more consistent braking in the wet and better than rim brakes on carbon rims in the dry, bigger tyres if that is your thing.

sloppyschleckonds

Its become nearly as boring as people discussing climbing Alpe d'Huez on zwift and how it compares to real cycling.

milemuncher1

For the third time in successive rides, a mix of disc and rim brakes on a group ride nearly ended badly, on a group ride of mine yesterday. 20 riders in a pack, 2 with disc brakes and 18 with rim brakes. The guys with the disc brakes, braked for sharp turns at junctions, or stopping at junctions, in amongst the pack. Cue loud “WOHAAA, WTF, FFFS” as the rim braked riders nearly piled into them. They are a bloody menace, in a leisure rider / amateur group, with a mix of brake types. I wouldn’t normally worry too much, but I’ve got to fill out an accident form, if anyone gets banged up, and that’s a chore.

imposter2.0

Milemuncher1 wrote:

For the third time in successive rides, a mix of disc and rim brakes on a group ride nearly ended badly, on a group ride of mine yesterday. 20 riders in a pack, 2 with disc brakes and 18 with rim brakes. The guys with the disc brakes brakes for sharp turns at junctions, or stopping at junctions, in amongst the pack. Cue loud “WOHAAA, WTF, FFFS” as the rim braked riders nearly piled into them. They are a bloody menace, in a leisure rider / amateur group, with a mix of brake types.

I suspect the issue is more likely with you and your bunch of choppers, rather than with disc brakes per se. My own recent experience from yesterday was watching a 2/3 circuit race in which a number of riders were on discs - and nothing bad happened.

thegreatdivide

SloppySchleckonds wrote:

Its become nearly as boring as people discussing climbing Alpe d'Huez on zwift and how it compares to real cycling.

My FTP's bigger than your FTP.

svetty

Milemuncher1 wrote:

For the third time in successive rides, a mix of disc and rim brakes on a group ride nearly ended badly, on a group ride of mine yesterday. 20 riders in a pack, 2 with disc brakes and 18 with rim brakes. The guys with the disc brakes, braked for sharp turns at junctions, or stopping at junctions, in amongst the pack. Cue loud “WOHAAA, WTF, FFFS” as the rim braked riders nearly piled into them. They are a bloody menace, in a leisure rider / amateur group, with a mix of brake types. I wouldn’t normally worry too much, but I’ve got to fill out an accident form, if anyone gets banged up, and that’s a chore.

Sounds like a group of Freds without the ability to ride in a bunch properly and a failure to anticipate.....

rick_chasey

Milemuncher1 wrote:

For the third time in successive rides, a mix of disc and rim brakes on a group ride nearly ended badly, on a group ride of mine yesterday. 20 riders in a pack, 2 with disc brakes and 18 with rim brakes. The guys with the disc brakes, braked for sharp turns at junctions, or stopping at junctions, in amongst the pack. Cue loud “WOHAAA, WTF, FFFS” as the rim braked riders nearly piled into them. They are a bloody menace, in a leisure rider / amateur group, with a mix of brake types. I wouldn’t normally worry too much, but I’ve got to fill out an accident form, if anyone gets banged up, and that’s a chore.

Moral of the story?

The ven diagram with riders who brake for bloody everything and riders who have disc brakes probably has a biiig overlap.

dstev55

Svetty wrote:

Milemuncher1 wrote:

For the third time in successive rides, a mix of disc and rim brakes on a group ride nearly ended badly, on a group ride of mine yesterday. 20 riders in a pack, 2 with disc brakes and 18 with rim brakes. The guys with the disc brakes, braked for sharp turns at junctions, or stopping at junctions, in amongst the pack. Cue loud “WOHAAA, WTF, FFFS” as the rim braked riders nearly piled into them. They are a bloody menace, in a leisure rider / amateur group, with a mix of brake types. I wouldn’t normally worry too much, but I’ve got to fill out an accident form, if anyone gets banged up, and that’s a chore.

Sounds like a group of Freds without the ability to ride in a bunch properly and a failure to anticipate.....

I was thinking the same!

I'm often the only one out with discs and if I'm on the front and we need to stop for a junction I'll always give my fellow cyclists a couple of seconds from when I've said stop until I start braking.

jimmurray

My ride was ruined on Saturday because of issues with front disk brake, shimano hydraulic, on my Tarmac. Screaming and resonating off and on throughout the ride. Only sure way to stop it was to ride out of saddle with weight over front wheel or ride with front brake lightly applied.

milemuncher1

Svetty wrote:

Milemuncher1 wrote:

For the third time in successive rides, a mix of disc and rim brakes on a group ride nearly ended badly, on a group ride of mine yesterday. 20 riders in a pack, 2 with disc brakes and 18 with rim brakes. The guys with the disc brakes, braked for sharp turns at junctions, or stopping at junctions, in amongst the pack. Cue loud “WOHAAA, WTF, FFFS” as the rim braked riders nearly piled into them. They are a bloody menace, in a leisure rider / amateur group, with a mix of brake types. I wouldn’t normally worry too much, but I’ve got to fill out an accident form, if anyone gets banged up, and that’s a chore.

Sounds like a group of Freds without the ability to ride in a bunch properly and a failure to anticipate.....

I can’t help the other riders abilities, or whether they can listen to instructions, I’ve just got to deal with the consequences of it all going wrong, if they don’t.

milemuncher1

jimmurray wrote:

My ride was ruined on Saturday because of issues with front disk brake, shimano hydraulic, on my Tarmac. Screaming and resonating off and on throughout the ride. Only sure way to stop it was to ride out of saddle with weight over front wheel or ride with front brake lightly applied.

I’ve had that, it’s beyond irritating.

milemuncher1

Rick Chasey wrote:

Milemuncher1 wrote:

For the third time in successive rides, a mix of disc and rim brakes on a group ride nearly ended badly, on a group ride of mine yesterday. 20 riders in a pack, 2 with disc brakes and 18 with rim brakes. The guys with the disc brakes, braked for sharp turns at junctions, or stopping at junctions, in amongst the pack. Cue loud “WOHAAA, WTF, FFFS” as the rim braked riders nearly piled into them. They are a bloody menace, in a leisure rider / amateur group, with a mix of brake types. I wouldn’t normally worry too much, but I’ve got to fill out an accident form, if anyone gets banged up, and that’s a chore.

Moral of the story?

The ven diagram with riders who brake for bloody everything and riders who have disc brakes probably has a biiig overlap.

That’s very true.

Livewire

My opinion likely counts for nothing however in my experience Disc Brakes are far superior at slowing down any bicycle over any rim brake. Regardless of the weather conditions.

jimmurray

Milemuncher1 wrote:

jimmurray wrote:

My ride was ruined on Saturday because of issues with front disk brake, shimano hydraulic, on my Tarmac. Screaming and resonating off and on throughout the ride. Only sure way to stop it was to ride out of saddle with weight over front wheel or ride with front brake lightly applied.

I’ve had that, it’s beyond irritating.

Did you find out why it was doing it and how to fixt it? I had 11 hours of it on Saturday.