Full susp for £1k - £1.5k

joebristol

Hmmmn, not sure. I ran the 145 with 160mm forks and that was considered ok by Bird. Might be worth ringing them and asking what they think. They’ll be happy to chat about it in my experience.

I wouldn’t get het up about 1cm of travel though - it’s more important you have the forks / rear suspension setup correctly for your weight. Both the Revs / Pikes / rear delux shock can all be tuned with tokens for progressiveness of the spring, air pressure, rebound damping. The rear rt I think has a compression lockout - but the slightly more expensive rt3 also has a pedal platform position. With forks the damper in the Pikes is better than the Revs with I think low speed compression and it’ll spike less over repeated big hits.

I’ve got the Yari which is a Lyrik chassis but with a motion control damper like the new Revs - it’s pretty good as far as I’m concerned.

A test ride on a few bikes will really help you. If you go to Bird and test a bike at Swinley you could also probably test something like a Whyte t-130 if you wanted to compare it - I think they run them at Swinley bike hub.

jamski

The RT shock has a pedal platform, the RT3 has the fully damped 'lockout' as well.

Bird now have the 140mm fork option as standard when you spec up the bikes, so it's totally fine.

They also now do the grips as standard that I asked them to special order for me! Like to think that's my little addition to the Bird evolution.

danlightbulb

i specced up a Bird 120 with 140mm pike rct forks, a dropper post, a chainguide and guide r brakes. Its £2500.

So exactly same price as the Vitus Escarpe vrx, which is a little better spec in terms of it has guide re brakes, eagle 1x12 and it has the bigger travel at 150/140.

jamski

danlightbulb wrote:

i specced up a Bird 120 with 140mm pike rct forks, a dropper post, a chainguide and guide r brakes. Its £2500.

So exactly same price as the Vitus Escarpe vrx, which is a little better spec in terms of it has guide re brakes, eagle 1x12 and it has the bigger travel at 150/140.

It's a better spec in terms of some parts (arguable) but is the frame better, is the warranty better, and is the service better? As discussed, bigger travel doesn't mean better either. It's better if you need it, but worse if you don't.

I was originally speccing up Eagle, cutting back on other stuff. Decided to go SLX in the end. Very nearly the same range of gears, certainly climbing wise it's practically identical. It's cheaper to run as chains, cassettes and so on are far cheaper. It's also possibly easier to maintain as the 12 speed can be a little touchy within indexing and so on from reports.

I was going to go slx brakes, but the guys at Bird suggested to stick with Deore. 180/200mm rotors, and they're great, no issues at all. Saving on brakes and drivechain meant I could get Pikes and the RT3 shock. A better place to put your money imo.

So, there are options. You've certainly gone up a level now looking at Bird/Vitus over the Calibre. However it's still decent for £1400.

danlightbulb

Just spoke to Bird on the phone, considering demo on wednesday next week.

Also checked cyclescheme voucher. Because cyclescheme take 10% (what a rip off), Bird add that back to the bike cost. This means Ill be paying £100 extra on whatever i buy from Bird. Bit annoyed about this.

joebristol

Not sure if this will work but this is how I’d build up a budget Aeris 120.

https://www.bird.bike/product/aeris-120 ... figuration


Nx11 speed, guide re brakes, 200/180 rotors, Oneup bashguard, 150mm dropper, 2.5wt Maxxis tyres, 140mm Revelations.

It’s not on the configuration but I’d rather have a Yari than a revelation. I’d also change the front chainring for a 30 rather than the standard 32.

Ultimately you have to judge a better spec vs the bike as a whole and how it rides / the customer service. Set which is more of a priority to you.

Test rides are the way forward I think - see which bikes you enjoy riding more. Try the Bird and the Vitus and see which gives you great best feeling.

I tried an Airdrop Edit and the Bird Aeris 145 and there was just something about the Aeris hat felt livelier.

My friend has the same thing a few years ago, he rode 5 bikes and picked the one with the worst spec on paper and costing the most because when he rode it on trails it was the one that gave the best smiles (Kona Process 134 was what he went for, over a Whyte and several other brands).

joebristol

On the C2W a lot of bike shops charge more for the bike to accept a voucher. I bought a Cannondale Caad12 disc that was on sale at £1100 and with C2W I had to pay £1210. It was still a good deal so I went for it, but it’s a bit annoying. Equally the bike shop don’t want to have to absorb all of that hit themselves in most cases. Someone like Halfords just accept them at face value though in my experience.

danlightbulb

So easy for the price to climb on these. Just specced up pikes, guide re, bigger rotors, rt3 shock and bashguard. Im at £2600 plus the £100 for cyclescheme tax so £2700. I think thats too high for me.

jamski

I think if you can test the Bird and others, then do. But personally, I think, right now, you want the travel and you want the spec. The £1800 Vitus seems like the best option still imo.

Don't get suckered in to speccing the best of everything though, then think you're priced out of the bird. I'm running Deore brakes! They're absolutely fine, Guide REs are a very expensive brake. Think about SLX too.

But spec wont make you a better rider. However a fun bike will be just that, more fun, and you'll ride more, which in turn will make you better. It took me a while to realise this, and you may well get there too. Personally, I think you can spec a 120 for under £2500 that will do what you want and more.

But like I said, if you want a bike now, I think the Vitus is the one.

joebristol

That is the danger with the Bird configurator!

Just stick to NX or SLX for drivetrains, don’t go mental on the brakes (either say guide r with Sram or Deore with Shimano) and the same with the forks. From what you’re riding now the revelations will be a huge amount better - you probably don’t need Pikes for example. The new Revs are boost and have 35mm stanchions so they will be both stiffer and plusher than what you’re used to.

You need to decide absolutely what your budget is, then work off that I think.

The Vitus I think you previously linked is well under £2k and has a good spec for the money. If you like he Bird more ham spec it as cheap as you can and if in time you want to upgrade then do that. But as standard the Revs / groupset / wheels (DT Swiss) are all decent.

I forget now, but can you use your voucher in Halfords or cycle Republic?

If you want good spec for cheap you might find last years Boardman Pro Fs for £1350 or even cheaper.

It had 140f/130r travel with Pikes, GX 11 speed, Sram Guide R and some Mavic wheels with formula hubs! The rims are a bit on the narrow side but other than that it’s a solid bike. I think the head angle was 68.5 degrees and it’s not massively long but decent all the same.

joebristol

https://www.cyclerepublic.com/bikes/mou ... -2016.html

It’s a better spec than the bossnut for similar money, but with slightly less modern / progressive geometry. I had the previous version which was slightly steeper with worse spec but it was a great bike. Used it at BPW a few times and it got bashed round Flyup 417 / Swinley / Cwmcarn / uplift day at FOD etc.

danlightbulb

It might sound silly but the £1800 vitus was available for £1450 in the weekly sale which i missed. I wont be happy paying £1850 for it. If it was in the sale now Id probably go for it

All the little incremental costs appear worth it on their own but its adding up to a bit too much.

Cycle republic yes, so the last year boardman might be an option but its older geometry. gone back to earlier in the thread on that one lol.

jamski

The Boardman ticks a lot of boxes. Pike, brakes, travel, price. Trust me, you'll be able to ride pretty much anything on it, I and many others have. You can also get a different linkage to slacken it a bit. I'll try and find the link. It's a brilliant into into full suss. If I hadn't have had my crash and got insurance money, I'd still more than happily be riding it.

Here you are.

https://www.mountainbikecomponents.co.u ... nkage-2016

There's a great Facebook group called Boardmaniacs, really helpful bunch.

danlightbulb

Thanks. I can go and look at one tomorrow. However, +£120 for a dropper, +£100 for swapping the tyres, £75 for the linkage. Im at £1600 already. Its so hard to know whether i should go a bit higher for a more modern bike. Maybe Im being swayed by hype.

joebristol

When you say modern bike, the Boardman geometry was pretty current when it was launched a couple of years ago - and here are still trail bikes with similar geometry being sold.

Coming from where you’re coming from it would still be a game changer. You’d have awesome forks, and a 4 bar rear suspension system with 130mm of travel.

Yes it’s not near 65 degree head angle / isn’t boost / isn’t long and low, but that isn’t necessarily what everyone needs. Just over a year ago I was riding the previous version of that bike with 32mm Revelations and 1x10 but other than tyres and handlebars it was standard.

With the one mentioned all you really might want to change is tyres for something softer and a dropper. Everything else is pretty good.

You could look for On-One chunky monkey / Smogasboard tyres which are made by Maxxis and are pretty reasonable, but which you can get for £25 delivered each or sometimes cheaper.

In terms of dropper an internally routed Brand X Ascend wouldndonthe job for not much over £100. Sometimes they go on sale too from CRC.

joebristol

Just to add you don’t need a linkage to change the geometry - ride it as it is and I’m sure you’d probably love it. 68.5 degrees isn’t a steep head angle in reality.

I think you should set a budget and get the best bike you can within that budget. It sounds like the Bird will work out more than you want to spend - so you’re left with the Vitus / Bossnut / Boardman at current prices. You then probably need sale bikes - but most shops will pop an extra £100 on the price of a sale bike in your budget.

Have you looked at Paul’s cycles website to see if they have any other options?

jamski

BrandX Dropper you can get for £100, and the tyres it comes with are fine for the rear, £50 for a Maxxis Minion. I would go Boardman over Calibre to be honest. So I would be choosing between that and the Vitus. As Joe said, you don't have to change the linkage, certainly not straight away.

billycool

danlightbulb wrote:

Thanks. I can go and look at one tomorrow. However, +£120 for a dropper, +£100 for swapping the tyres, £75 for the linkage. Im at £1600 already. Its so hard to know whether i should go a bit higher for a more modern bike. Maybe Im being swayed by hype.

Kind of. Yes.

This is your first transition into FS biking and you are after a spec that you don't really need right now. Not saying it isn't nice, but for your first FS, you're aiming quite high.

All of the bikes you've mentioned are great bikes and some really good specs, but I think you are getting bogged down in the detail.

I used to work in sports retail and people would ask for a bit of sports kit because "it's Adidas" or because "my mate has one and he's really good". The problem is that it might not be right for them but they get fixated with it. I've seen people buy the wrong piece of kit just based on the marketing hype.

We always said we should de-brand everything and let people choose based on the product and not the label.

The MTB marketing machine needs to have new things and tech developments to keep us interested. It's very easy to get too absorbed in it and lose sight of the fundamental principle. Buy something that works for you and gives you a lot of pleasure.

You say you don't want anything too slack but last years bikes are `old` geometry. Last years bikes aren't that different and geometry is brand/bike/style specific so not consistent across the board.

My HT is 2006 and very much old school geometry. My FS is 2013 (gasp) and has 26" wheels (double gasp). It's deffo slacker than my HT but not as much as some newer bikes. For me, the BB is at a sensible height and it lets me ride how I want to ride. I can even keep up with people on 27.5 and 29" wheels. Must be black magic.

MOST IMPORTANTLY, it puts a massive smile on my face when I ride it. Even with 20+ years on MTB, my ability is easily exceeded by the bike. I think I would have been just as happy on a 120mm bike, but I had to have a 140mm bike to realise that. I'll never ride anything (or be good enough) to justify anything bigger. If I spent all my time riding BPW or DH courses with uplifts then I'd have something in the 150/160mm category.

A lot of it relates to what you ride on a regular basis (ie Cannock) with the odd trip to BPW or Cwmcarn etc. Try not to spec the bike based on the latter.

I've done BPW and Cwmcarn on a 80mm HT so anything is possible.

If budget were no option, I'd deffo go for one of these newer/shinier bikes, but I'd still want to make sure it was relevant to my type of riding.

joebristol

It all comes down to smiles!

danlightbulb

Yeah i get you.

All the bikes im looking at would be fine im sure.

However i dont want to continually buy new kit so an extra few hundred for something that my abilities can grow into is ok, IF its worth it. Im only really changing because ive reached the limits of my current bike, which actually happened years ago but i couldnt afford it then.

I can spend more for the right bike but its hard to judge whether the extra is value for money still, eg is the Bird more of a luxury purchase than the vitus or the boardman, or am i genuinely getting something better.

billycool

danlightbulb wrote:

Yeah i get you.

All the bikes im looking at would be fine im sure.

However i dont want to continually buy new kit so an extra few hundred for something that my abilities can grow into is ok, IF its worth it. Im only really changing because ive reached the limits of my current bike, which actually happened years ago but i couldnt afford it then.

I can spend more for the right bike but its hard to judge whether the extra is value for money still, eg is the Bird more of a luxury purchase than the vitus or the boardman, or am i genuinely getting something better.

Again - very valid points.

It's hard to know where you'll be in the future, but the spec of ANY of those bikes should be fine for future growth etc and by the time you feel you need something new it will be time for n+1 anyway

If you have a decent frame/forks combo, then everything else will/can be replaced/upgraded anyway. That's half the fun. And if you are the vicitm of the marketing hype, you'll be changing bike every 6 weeks!

My FS has been all over the place and the mid-range spec copes fine. Top spec stuff is nice but not essential.

The `limits` of a HT are usually because it's a HT. I only realised that when I got my FS. With a FS you really do push the boundaries more and then realise that you're not as good as you think you are! I should have stayed in my safe place on my HT, convinicing myself that it was cramping my style. Now I look really average.

Ref the specs etc - I've run SLX drivetrains with no drama, love my SLX brakes (HT) and XT (FS) - nothing else is too fancy. It just works.

FWIW - The Vitus does appeal to me and I'm not sure why. Also the Boardman.

Whatever you do get will enhance your MTB experience x gazillions.

jamski

Just weighed my 120. 14.5kg. Very surprised, doesn’t feel that heavy at all. It does have a pretty beefy front tyre in a 2.6 Minion, but other than that the forks, and rear tyre are pretty light. Anyhoo, that’s what it is. And a new pic.

joebristol

Just to add my 145 is about 32lbs - that’s with Yaris / GX 11 speed / DT Swiss e1900s / dropper post / Guides / dhf2.5wt Exo and dhr2 Exo.

Still a faster bike up most things than my last Boardman which was lighter by a few lbs I believe. I think it’s mostly the steeper seat tube angle and bigger stretch. The Aeris is slower on fire road slogs though.

On that Boardman there isn’t much in need of upgrading - other than perhaps the tyres as mentioned and maybe some wider rims at the same time to go tubeless and give a better tyre profile. On my Boardman I found it fine on the standard mavics with some 2.4” continental mountain kings (black chilli compound)

joebristol

Just to put the length and geometry in perspective I’ve popped in my Boardman and Aeris below. Is extended the Boardman fork travel from 130 to 150, put on bigger tyres and gone 1x10 as the main changes. The Aeris is a good bit longer which can make tight turns a bit trickier - but on fast rocky stuff it’s amazing. At the moment a year on from buying it I still seem to be getting faster and faster.





Both great bikes in their own way but they need to be ridden in a very different way.

tallpaul_s

I reckon unless CRC have the Escarpe VR or VRX model on sale soon, you're looking at the VR if you want to save a bit of money (and you'll have to suck up the price difference from the sale price) or the Bird Aeris 120/145 if you're willing to go over budget a bit. For the extra, you'll get a frame that will last you longer and a spec that's been chosen by you.

On the subject of Bird, those 2 are gorgeous! An AM9 would be my 29er of choice if I go that way at some point, just a complete enduro slaying beast of a bike in XL with 522mm reach, nearly 1300mm wheelbase and a seat tube short enough for a 170mm dropper In raw, of course Frame only they're a bloody bargain!!

jamski

I wasn’t a fan of the raw finish until I saw one in the metal. They are really nice. Best way to eliminate cable rub? No paint! Pure genius.

tallpaul_s

Yeah I saw one at the London bike show, stunning looking frame!!

apreading

danlightbulb wrote:

However i dont want to continually buy new kit so an extra few hundred for something that my abilities can grow into is ok

If you think spending more on a bike will stop you continually buying new kit then a) you are sorely mistaken and b) you havent been paying attention to all the posts on this forum by people continually buying new kit!

Its ALWAYS n+1, no matter how good n is.

And theres always newer, shinier, lighter, better upgrades and accompanying kit.

If you get the bug you WILL always continually buy new kit. If you dont then you shouldnt be spending this much on a bike.

danlightbulb

^^ Ive ridden the last 6 years on a decathlon rockrider 8.1 hardtail which cost me £500. Only replaced worn out things (not alot) and fitted wider bars in that time.

larkim

Didn't this thread start with "I can only justify spending £1k, £1.5k max?

The reality surely is that the more you spend the less you get (relatively). Set the max you want to pay, add 10% wiggle room and then only look at bikes in that price bracket and don't get carried away looking at more expensive ones!