Full susp for £1k - £1.5k

12467…10

Comments

  • joebristol
    joebristol Posts: 327
    Having recently started riding a hardtail off-road a bit to mix things up I can confirm I find it a lot more tiring.

    You spend more time standing up and pedalling and you have to work harder. I can go further for longer on the full suss that’s probably 4 or 5 lbs heavier.

    I think it’s good to mix up ht / fs though - helping my fitness at the moment. Although I get moments where the shorter / steeper ht feels like it wants to throw me over the bars.

    The Bossnut geometry is probably in the nice spot between slack and steep where it’ll be pretty calm over rocky stuff but still turn in ok to slow speed corners.
  • danlightbulb
    danlightbulb Posts: 701
    Hi again guys. Still waiting for the voucher to come through, but in the meantime its likely the Calibre Triple B will be out.

    Its £400 more than the Bossnut Evo, and the only differences are the 140mm Reba fork, the dropper post (external though) and the bolt through rear end. Is this worth £400 more than the Evo?

    The Vitus Escarpe hasnt come back on sale yet, but it might do so Im keeping an eye on it.
  • jamski
    jamski Posts: 737
    Better brakes too, rims too I think. Not sure if the shock is different? Yes, I’d say it’s worth the £400. Are you sure you’ve actually requested the voucher? Ours come through at work within days!

    EDIT: Rims are the same, can’t see any info on the shock. Still worth the extra for me.
    Daddy, Husband, Designer, Biker, Gamer, Geek
    Bird Aeris 120 | Boardman Team 650b | Boardman Pro FS | Calibre Two.two
  • danlightbulb
    danlightbulb Posts: 701
    Shock is the same on both. I could fit a dropper for £125 ish so thats £275 extra for the reba over the recon and the guide brakes over the shimano brakes. Plus the bolt through rear which obviously i couldnt do anything about. Maybe its around cost price I guess.

    Cant seem to find out what the difference is between the recon RL and the Reba RL, aside from the 10mm additional travel. Both solo air.

    Voucher is waiting for my company to make the payment to the external provider apparently.
  • jamski
    jamski Posts: 737
    I think, and I'm not 100% as the Sram site isn't the most informative on these forks, but the Rebas are aluminium uppers and the Recons are steel. So the Rebas will be lighter. Basically, if you can stretch to the extra £400, go for the BBB. The forks are a good £150 more, plus the dropper, brakes and bolt through rear end. It's worth the £400.
    Daddy, Husband, Designer, Biker, Gamer, Geek
    Bird Aeris 120 | Boardman Team 650b | Boardman Pro FS | Calibre Two.two
  • tallpaul_s
    tallpaul_s Posts: 130
    The rebas can also use bottomless tokens which are helpful for setting up the fork for your riding style/weight. The recons cannot.
  • danlightbulb
    danlightbulb Posts: 701
    Still waiting on voucher. But no bother at the moment really because I really want to get the Triple B (that is unless the Vitus Escarpe comes back on sale in the meantime).

    I went into Go Outdoors today again and they are saying June/July now, it was originally meant to be 'by' June. So bit annoying that.

    Anyway I'm struggling with sizing still. I tried the large out today. On the medium I have the seatpost almost at its maximum, and with it lowered (would be getting a dropper as standard with the Triple B) I can get my bum behind the saddle. On the large, I don't have the seatpost as high, but enough to get the 125mm dropper working, but with it lowered I couldn't quite get behind the saddle (it seemed to be catching on my inside thighs). Is this a reach issue, indicating that the large is a tad too long for me? Ive been reading lots on sizing and some people say go smaller for chuckability and some people say go larger for more stability.

    On the large, if I stand over it with flat feet, the top tube is touching my groin. On the medium I had an inch and a half maybe touch more, gap.

    I did the reach test (elbow on nose of saddle and see where fingertips are) and I was about halfway up stem on the large and not far off that on the medium.

    Any advice?
  • billycool
    billycool Posts: 833
    danlightbulb wrote:
    Still waiting on voucher. But no bother at the moment really because I really want to get the Triple B (that is unless the Vitus Escarpe comes back on sale in the meantime).

    I went into Go Outdoors today again and they are saying June/July now, it was originally meant to be 'by' June. So bit annoying that.

    Anyway I'm struggling with sizing still. I tried the large out today. On the medium I have the seatpost almost at its maximum, and with it lowered (would be getting a dropper as standard with the Triple B) I can get my bum behind the saddle. On the large, I don't have the seatpost as high, but enough to get the 125mm dropper working, but with it lowered I couldn't quite get behind the saddle (it seemed to be catching on my inside thighs). Is this a reach issue, indicating that the large is a tad too long for me? Ive been reading lots on sizing and some people say go smaller for chuckability and some people say go larger for more stability.

    On the large, if I stand over it with flat feet, the top tube is touching my groin. On the medium I had an inch and a half maybe touch more, gap.

    I did the reach test (elbow on nose of saddle and see where fingertips are) and I was about halfway up stem on the large and not far off that on the medium.

    Any advice?

    How tall are you? Not that it really matters.

    From what you have said - the L sounds too big.

    The obvious question I guess, is whether you feel one or the other will allow you to ride how you want to ride.

    I prefer `chuckability`, as I ride quite technical XC singletrack. It really depends what you want to get out of it.
    "Ride, crash, replace"
  • danlightbulb
    danlightbulb Posts: 701
    Im 178cm (5'10) with a 32 inch inside leg. Its right on the border of medium and large in most sizing guides.
  • billycool
    billycool Posts: 833
    danlightbulb wrote:
    Im 178cm (5'10) with a 32 inch inside leg. Its right on the border of medium and large in most sizing guides.

    You're the same height as me.

    I'm the same - kind of on the cusp of M and L, depending on the brand and geometry.

    My HT is effectivley a M (18"). It's a 2006 so has an older, more upright geometry. Nowhere near as slack as some of the newer versions. Great for XC type riding (I do a lot of farm tracks and tarmac locally). Climbs like a goat but not great when pointed downhill. Feels a bit cramped and too much weight over the front end. It's only 80mm travel so a bit limited on anything too knarly (it has done BPW twice and Cwmcarn once, so I'm very proud of it).

    My FS is a `large` (19" I think) Norco Sight 2013 - slacker front end with 140mm travel. Different type of bike but fits me really well and allows me to chuck it down stuff a lot more confidently than my HT. It only weighs about 28lbs, so climbs fairly well.

    With the change in geometry in bikes, reach and stack seem to be the more relevant indicators of bike fit. If I were going to get a newer HT, I'd probably look at a L. It would all still hinge on trying a few and finding something I like. One M bike will feel like a L in another brand. There are so many variables.

    If I standover a bike and the top tube is nearly touching my bits, I'd say that's too big. Hardly scientific but a good guide!
    "Ride, crash, replace"
  • danlightbulb
    danlightbulb Posts: 701
    Its tricky isnt it. I dont really have the option of trying out loads of bikes unless there is something im missing? Because shops just dont seem to stock that much these days and cant try out the online brands like vitus or canyon. Plus, a circle round the shop doesnt tell me very much.

    The Bossnut/TripleB use the same frame which is 17.5" in medium with a straight top tube and will come with a 125mm dropper. The Vitus is almost identical yet is 17" in medium with a kink in the top tube so more standover and a 150mm dropper. If the reach in the large is too long Im going to be at full arm stretch trying to get behind the saddle which isnt good either is it?

    My medium bike currently, xc hardtail bike, sometimes i feel like im too far over the front but on climbs i find myself trying to weight the front wheel more. I also feel im too bent over as the saddle, at the top of its travel for me, is way higher than bars. I cant wheelie it at all I dont know why, if its because of my technique or because im bent over so much on it.
  • tallpaul_s
    tallpaul_s Posts: 130
    danlightbulb wrote:
    Its tricky isnt it. I dont really have the option of trying out loads of bikes unless there is something im missing? Because shops just dont seem to stock that much these days and cant try out the online brands like vitus or canyon. Plus, a circle round the shop doesnt tell me very much.

    The Bossnut/TripleB use the same frame which is 17.5" in medium with a straight top tube and will come with a 125mm dropper. The Vitus is almost identical yet is 17" in medium with a kink in the top tube so more standover and a 150mm dropper. If the reach in the large is too long Im going to be at full arm stretch trying to get behind the saddle which isnt good either is it?

    My medium bike currently, xc hardtail bike, sometimes i feel like im too far over the front but on climbs i find myself trying to weight the front wheel more. I also feel im too bent over as the saddle, at the top of its travel for me, is way higher than bars. I cant wheelie it at all I dont know why, if its because of my technique or because im bent over so much on it.
    The bossnut is pretty damn short compared to other bikes, the L won't be too long, trust me :D

    446mm reach on a large Vs 470mm on the same size Vitus.

    I'm 6ft 3 and ride a 495mm reach Vitus escarpe, and have no issues getting off the back of the bike. It's got a 1234mm wheelbase. I've also ridden a size L cube stereo 2018 which has a 458mm reach and 1190mm wheelbase. Both are great in different ways, the Vitus charges down hill, is a little less responsive but still handles fine. The shorter Cube is very responsive, playful and fun, but is probably a bit less stable at speed over rough stuff. Chainstay length, BB drop etc all come into play as well.

    Basically if you want something more playful, easier to manual and pop air off roots, and that will be easier to chuck around tight corners, get the smaller size. If you want something you can ride down rough, nasty drops and descents at speed, or charge over rock gardens, or just be more stable at speed, get three bigger size. Don't overthink it too much.

    Oh and measuring bikes by standover is a thing of the past now, don't try that on any modern MTB. If I chose a size that way I'd end up with an XXXL! Modern bikes have low standover to enable you to move around lots and to allow people to size up to get a longer bike if they want.
  • Rowan404
    Rowan404 Posts: 104
    http://www.jensonusa.com/Diamondback-Mi ... -Bike-2017 Diamondback mission 1 on sale for around £1200. Best spec you will get for the money.
  • danlightbulb
    danlightbulb Posts: 701
    TallPaul_S wrote:

    Oh and measuring bikes by standover is a thing of the past now, don't try that on any modern MTB. If I chose a size that way I'd end up with an XXXL! Modern bikes have low standover to enable you to move around lots and to allow people to size up to get a longer bike if they want.

    It was the other way around actually, I was concerned the standover wasn't there, rather than it being too much. On the large, if I stand flat footed my ballsack is resting on the top tube, and that's at the saddle end, not the bars end. If I landed near the bars end I'd definitely hinder my ability to father children.


    Just looking at the geometry for the TripleB and Vitus again, and I can see your point though. The seattube on the Triple B is 17.5" and on the Vitus is 17", so slightly smaller. But the reach on the Vitus is 453mm against 429mm on the TripleB so its longer. I wonder if the TripleB is just a bit behind the times, should make the seattube smaller and the reach a little longer.

    The large TripleB may have similar reach to the medium Vitus, but a 19.5" seattube is probably screwing up the ability to get the saddle down which is why I can't get behind it.

    Damn you CRC, put the vitus back on sale.

    Rowan404 wrote:
    http://www.jensonusa.com/Diamondback-Mission-10-Bike-2017 Diamondback mission 1 on sale for around £1200. Best spec you will get for the money.

    Looks nice thanks, I'm in UK though.
  • Rowan404
    Rowan404 Posts: 104
    It would be under 1500 including shipping if that is still your price range.
  • tallpaul_s
    tallpaul_s Posts: 130
    A 125mm dropper is enough to get it out the way, of course 150mm is nicer to have as the seat basically disappears. If you've got a current bike you can check how much drop you'll have room for if you can find the dropper post specs.

    If I helps, my inside leg is 35.5" with the 'book shoved under the nutsack as far up as it'll go' method with bare feet (obviously more when wearing spd shoes) and with a 20.5" seat tube, and a 150mm dropper, I have about 2" of post showing:

    40061047990_38e294c1e7_b.jpgIMG_20180503_171254 by Paul Sims, on Flickr

    Then on an 18.5" seat tube frame, again with a 150mm dropper I had the below amount showing, about 3-4" and tbh it was probably a touch low for proper pedaling height:

    42016686462_a743646abf_b.jpgIMG_20180512_142401 by Paul Sims, on Flickr

    With a 19.5" seat tube frame you'd probably be able to fit a 150mm dropper if you wanted, or you could run the 125mm dropper a little lower than correct pedalling height for a bit more clearance.
  • danlightbulb
    danlightbulb Posts: 701
    TallPaul_S wrote:
    A 125mm dropper is enough to get it out the way, of course 150mm is nicer to have as the seat basically disappears. If you've got a current bike you can check how much drop you'll have room for if you can find the dropper post specs.

    If I helps, my inside leg is 35.5" with the 'book shoved under the nutsack as far up as it'll go' method with bare feet (obviously more when wearing spd shoes) and with a 20.5" seat tube, and a 150mm dropper, I have about 2" of post showing:


    Then on an 18.5" seat tube frame, again with a 150mm dropper I had the below amount showing, about 3-4" and tbh it was probably a touch low for proper pedaling height:


    With a 19.5" seat tube frame you'd probably be able to fit a 150mm dropper if you wanted, or you could run the 125mm dropper a little lower than correct pedalling height for a bit more clearance.

    Sorry mate, a little confused with what you mean? I'm probably not explaining myself very well here.

    On the medium size bossnut I need the seatpost at its maximum extension which is about 8" showing, for pedalling height. With it dropped about 5" (what the dropper would do), I can get my bum behind the saddle without catching it.

    On the large bossnut it has a longer seat tube by 2", so I have about 6" of the seatpost showing at my pedalling height, which is borderline for the 5" dropper. I think a 150mm dropper would put the saddle too high for me (6" + 1" collar = 7"). However with the seat dropped, on the large bike, I couldn't get my bum over the back of the bike because my inner thighs were catching on the wings of the saddle on the way back.

    To be honest I don't know how much it matters if I can't get my bum all the way over the rear wheel? I don't do it now (in fact I don't even bother dropping the seatpost now, even on fast descents. Ive kinda gotten used to it being there between my thighs on the knarlier bits of trail. On the rare occasions I do lower it, I feel like something is missing). However it does occasionally bump me in the bum pushing my weight forward on drops and such, so I guess if I was riding faster its at risk of unbalancing me.

    The Vitus is longer than the Bossnut, but with a half inch less seattube and comes with a 150mm dropper. I'd probably be able to fit a 150mm dropper to the bossnut instead of a 125mm, but as the tripleB comes with a 125mm I wouldn't be making that upgrade just for 1" more.
  • tallpaul_s
    tallpaul_s Posts: 130
    Ahh ok, tbh that sounds like a technique issue rather than a bike size issue. If your thighs are rubbing the seat, open your legs slightly. There should be no issue with the length of the bike or the height of the saddle giving you issues getting over the rear wheel - when you're as far back as you can go your chest will almost be resting on the saddle, and you'll be able to buzz your arse on the rear tyre. You should be able to get way off the back of the bike even with the saddle at full height. See here from 45 secs onwards:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zo49Gd0NgeQ

    A 2" higher saddle shouldn't mean the difference between being able to get off the rear of the bike or not, and it's an essential skill if you ever want to ride steep stuff. TBH the first few times I rode with a dropper it felt like something was missing, but you soon get used to it. The more you ride faster and steep stuff the more you'll realise being able to move around unencumbered is much better, and even cornering with the saddle all the way up is horrible for me, I can't lean the bike over without the saddle getting in the way.
  • danlightbulb
    danlightbulb Posts: 701
    What about standover? Im not worried about too much Im worried about too little. On the large bossnut the toptube is touching my groin when Im standing over it. By the looks of the Vitus frame, with that kink at the standover location, I'd have even more standover on that bike.
  • danlightbulb
    danlightbulb Posts: 701
    Ive tried to do a side by side comparison of both bikes with some guide lines to help me see the differences.

    fUPi153.png

    Its pretty clear the vitus has more standover due to that bent top tube, and it looks like the bars are slightly higher too.
  • apreading
    apreading Posts: 4,535
    If your feet are on the pedals, standover shouldnt be an issue. Its quite literally meaningless.

    And you should be able to get behind the saddle even without a dropper - the dropper just makes it easier and allows you to manoevre the frame more.

    I think you are doing the same thing that many people desparately wanting to buy a bike but having to wait fall into the trap of doing - you are overthinking it. Massively.

    Probably either size frame would be fine.
  • tallpaul_s
    tallpaul_s Posts: 130
    Yeah, the Bossnut is a more dated frame design for sure, with higher standover and shorter reach than most current frames, however it's not stupidly short, it's just not hugely long and as above the standover issue realy isn't an issue :wink:

    The only time standover becomes an issue is if, as you said, you dismount forwards into the top tube. But that's the same for any bike, modern bikes just have more radically sloping top tubes. So long as you clear the top tube when standing right by the saddle, you'll be fine.

    However, as we've said - both the Medium and Large frames will be perfectly fine, however if you want something a little more agile, get the M, if you want it to be a little more stable at speed/down steep stuff, get the L. Simples! :mrgreen:
  • danlightbulb
    danlightbulb Posts: 701
    Guys what are your opinions of the Vitus Escarpe 29er? Same spec as the 27.5 i think. Ive never ridden a 29er.

    http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/mobi ... prod159738
  • steve_sordy
    steve_sordy Posts: 2,443
    One thing to avoid is having a dropper with too much extension for the bike frame and you. Let me explain.

    With the dropper pushed fully in to the frame and fully extended, the saddle was too high for comfort. I needed to drop the saddle by 6-10mm. I agree, not much at all, but when it's too high, it's too high! By how much too high is irrelevant! I found myself dropping the saddle by a small amount to get comfort on the normal riding. But as soon as I used the dropper, getting back to the position was not a simple operation as my 4rse is not well calibrated for that function. Fortunately the Reverb dropper failed early on and I got the 150 mm version replaced with the 125 mm version. Happiness abundance!

    This diagram of dimensions for different types and sizes of droppers will be useful. You might need to use Google Translate to get the headings.

    https://www.alltricks.fr/surl/choisirsa ... copique_v2
  • billycool
    billycool Posts: 833
    danlightbulb wrote:
    TallPaul_S wrote:
    A 125mm dropper is enough to get it out the way, of course 150mm is nicer to have as the seat basically disappears. If you've got a current bike you can check how much drop you'll have room for if you can find the dropper post specs.

    If I helps, my inside leg is 35.5" with the 'book shoved under the nutsack as far up as it'll go' method with bare feet (obviously more when wearing spd shoes) and with a 20.5" seat tube, and a 150mm dropper, I have about 2" of post showing:


    Then on an 18.5" seat tube frame, again with a 150mm dropper I had the below amount showing, about 3-4" and tbh it was probably a touch low for proper pedaling height:


    With a 19.5" seat tube frame you'd probably be able to fit a 150mm dropper if you wanted, or you could run the 125mm dropper a little lower than correct pedalling height for a bit more clearance.

    Sorry mate, a little confused with what you mean? I'm probably not explaining myself very well here.

    On the medium size bossnut I need the seatpost at its maximum extension which is about 8" showing, for pedalling height. With it dropped about 5" (what the dropper would do), I can get my bum behind the saddle without catching it.

    On the large bossnut it has a longer seat tube by 2", so I have about 6" of the seatpost showing at my pedalling height, which is borderline for the 5" dropper. I think a 150mm dropper would put the saddle too high for me (6" + 1" collar = 7"). However with the seat dropped, on the large bike, I couldn't get my bum over the back of the bike because my inner thighs were catching on the wings of the saddle on the way back.

    To be honest I don't know how much it matters if I can't get my bum all the way over the rear wheel? I don't do it now (in fact I don't even bother dropping the seatpost now, even on fast descents. Ive kinda gotten used to it being there between my thighs on the knarlier bits of trail. On the rare occasions I do lower it, I feel like something is missing). However it does occasionally bump me in the bum pushing my weight forward on drops and such, so I guess if I was riding faster its at risk of unbalancing me.

    The Vitus is longer than the Bossnut, but with a half inch less seattube and comes with a 150mm dropper. I'd probably be able to fit a 150mm dropper to the bossnut instead of a 125mm, but as the tripleB comes with a 125mm I wouldn't be making that upgrade just for 1" more.

    It's a tough one, but personally, I'd want to be able to move around on the bike easily and not feel restricted by the saddle. If you're saying that with the L frame you aren't extending your dropper fully, then the dropper is a too long and/or the frame too big. If with the dropper fully depressed you are finding you are catching/brushing the saddle trying to get over the rear wheel, then I'd say the bike is too big.

    For me, the whole point of the dropper is to allow a very easy transition over the rear wheel when you need to (and sometimes in a hurry). Catching/brushing the saddle on the way through can be distracting and potentially cause an unplanned ejection or OTB. It kind of defeats the object of having the dropper.

    If you find the type of riding doesn't require that, then it's not a problem. However, if you are able to get all the way over the rear wheel, you can ride some things faster/differently and maybe other things you wouldn't have done.

    For me, a dropper has revolutionised my FS riding but it does depend what you ride and what you want to get out of it.

    danlightbulb wrote:
    Guys what are your opinions of the Vitus Escarpe 29er? Same spec as the 27.5 i think. Ive never ridden a 29er.

    <a href="http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/mobile/vitus-escarpe-29-vr-suspension-bike-slx-1x11-2018/rp-prod159738&quot; class="skimlinks-unlinked" data-skimwords-word="http%3A%2F%2Fwww.chainreactioncycles.com%2Fmobile%2Fvitus-escarpe-29-vr-suspension-bike-slx-1x11-2018%2Frp-prod159738" data-skim-creative="500005" title="" style="">http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/mobile/vitus-escarpe-29-vr-suspension-bike-slx-1x11-2018/rp-prod159738</a&gt;

    Wheel size is very much a personal preference thing.

    I still ride 26" and it works fine for me as I ride mainly technical/twisty XC. I find 29" a bit too big for the tight turns etc but they do cover the ground really well. If I was going to get another bike I'd get 27.5 as that would be best for me.

    I know people who equally prefer one of the other.

    The only real solution is to try both and see which you prefer.
    "Ride, crash, replace"
  • JGTR
    JGTR Posts: 1,404
    29ers are great for technical tight stuff, just need a slightly different riding style.
  • billycool
    billycool Posts: 833
    JGTR wrote:
    29ers are great for technical tight stuff, just need a slightly different riding style.

    I'm yet to discover that!

    After 25 years on 26" I'll stick with what I know (which isn't much). :?
    "Ride, crash, replace"
  • jamski
    jamski Posts: 737
    So, have you got the voucher yet?
    Daddy, Husband, Designer, Biker, Gamer, Geek
    Bird Aeris 120 | Boardman Team 650b | Boardman Pro FS | Calibre Two.two
  • danlightbulb
    danlightbulb Posts: 701
    jamski wrote:
    So, have you got the voucher yet?

    Annoying me mate. Work hadn't paid the invoice until I chased them so hopefully couple of days and it will be here.

    Don't have a bike to choose though. Vitus not on sale anymore and triple B not released yet.
  • sisleybarnes1
    sisleybarnes1 Posts: 13
    mark_fogel wrote:
    Saw this the other day, these tend to get fairly good reviews.

    http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/vitu ... prod146547

    British Cycling gets you 10% off too so you can spend the change on a dropper.

    Calibre Bossnut, Boardman FS are good to options too. Pauls cycles usually sell last years models for a good price. Apart from that, look for 2nd hand however leave some money in your budget for a good overall service to ensure everything is running smoothly. You can usually get 1-2 year old bike for 1/3 of the price which will leave a bit of cash in your pocket.
    Pretty good offer. Should try it out!

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