Full susp for £1k - £1.5k

danlightbulb

Hi all. I have my certificate at last.

Anyone spotted any good deals?

Of the original bikes I was interested in, the Bossnut Evo is still on the table at £999, the Vitus Escarpe VR is no longer on sale price so is up at £1850 and the Calibre TripleB is not out yet and is £1400.

jamski

danlightbulb wrote:

Hi all. I have my certificate at last.

Anyone spotted any good deals?

Of the original bikes I was interested in, the Bossnut Evo is still on the table at £999, the Vitus Escarpe VR is no longer on sale price so is up at £1850 and the Calibre TripleB is not out yet and is £1400.

Right, how much have you got to spend. Just the £1k, or can you go up? And if you can go up, what is your absolute max? Oh, and where can you use your voucher?

danlightbulb

jamski wrote:

Right, how much have you got to spend. Just the £1k, or can you go up? And if you can go up, what is your absolute max? Oh, and where can you use your voucher?

Ok.

I have £1000 on the voucher and it can be spent at chain reaction, go outdoors, decathlon, quite a few local bike shops, leisure lakes, evans i think, cycle republic. I cannot use it at Halfords.

I can put extra too it. The reality is that i enjoy riding and will put as much extra as i consider still offers good value for money for a good spec increase. This means that £1500 is fine (the Escarpe at the sale price probably would have been ideal), £2000 is pushing it but for the right bike, maybe I would. Im not keen on going above that unless there is a really good reason to do so.

jamski

danlightbulb wrote:

jamski wrote:

Right, how much have you got to spend. Just the £1k, or can you go up? And if you can go up, what is your absolute max? Oh, and where can you use your voucher?

Ok.

I have £1000 on the voucher and it can be spent at chain reaction, go outdoors, decathlon, quite a few local bike shops, leisure lakes, evans i think, cycle republic. I cannot use it at Halfords.

I can put extra too it. The reality is that i enjoy riding and will put as much extra as i consider still offers good value for money for a good spec increase. This means that £1500 is fine (the Escarpe at the sale price probably would have been ideal), £2000 is pushing it but for the right bike, maybe I would. Im not keen on going above that unless there is a really good reason to do so.

If you mean it about putting money in, the the Vitus is still a steal. Get a British Cycling code for 10% off and you can get it for £1664.99.

tallpaul_s

Can you definitely use a C2W voucher and a British cycling discount code on the same purchase? I'm pretty sure you can't, and even if you could the 10% off would be on the £850 remaining rather than the full amount.

danlightbulb

jamski wrote:

If you mean it about putting money in, the the Vitus is still a steal. Get a British Cycling code for 10% off and you can get it for £1664.99.

I do mean it yeah, for sure. Ill keep this bike for several years.

However given that the bike was available for £1450 I am loathed to pay £1850 for it (it negates the tax saving im getting from having the voucher in the first place). Also, I cant use the British Cycling discount alongside the voucher (I asked). Finally, that bike is sold out in size medium in any case.

tallpaul_s

Is it a cycle scheme voucher? https://www.cyclescheme.co.uk

If so this opens up a load of retailers with possible deals.

I will say that if you're planning planning on keeping this for a few years, try to put as much towards it as possible, a couple of extra hundred now could save more down the line if you get something with a decent spec that doesn't need upgrades or won't have you wanting to change it after 6 months.

If you can spend up to £2k total for the right bike, I'll say it now - forget the bossnut. There's upgrades you'll probably want to do, and if it was me I'd be wanting to change it after a year, maximum. It's a great bike as a starter FS bike but after a couple of years I guarantee your riding will have outgrown it and you'll want something lighter/more modern geometry/better spec/all the above.

Up to £2k gets you into 2018 stumpjumper territory, or something else much much better specced. Either a big name 2018 bike with slightly lesser spec components but a better frame, or a direct bike with better components. Or, just possibly, a 2017 bargain of a bike

https://www.jejamescycles.com/focus-jam-elite-27-mountain-bike-2018.html

https://www.evanscycles.com/specialized-stumpjumper-fsr-650b-2018-mountain-bike-EV306318

http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/mobile/vitus-sommet-cr-fs-bike-carbon-sram-x1-1x11-2017/rp-prod146566

That Sommet might be a little long on travel but it's not as slack as the 2018 version, 155/160mm isn't that far off 140/150mm. And it's a carbon frame, with a RS Pike, and under 29lbs.

jamski

danlightbulb wrote:

jamski wrote:

If you mean it about putting money in, the the Vitus is still a steal. Get a British Cycling code for 10% off and you can get it for £1664.99.

I do mean it yeah, for sure. Ill keep this bike for several years.

However given that the bike was available for £1450 I am loathed to pay £1850 for it (it negates the tax saving im getting from having the voucher in the first place). Also, I cant use the British Cycling discount alongside the voucher (I asked). Finally, that bike is sold out in size medium in any case.

Cr@p, forgot you couldn't use both. If you're serious about £2k, do Bird accept your vouchers?

www.bird.bike

tallpaul_s

jamski wrote:

danlightbulb wrote:

jamski wrote:

If you mean it about putting money in, the the Vitus is still a steal. Get a British Cycling code for 10% off and you can get it for £1664.99.

I do mean it yeah, for sure. Ill keep this bike for several years.

However given that the bike was available for £1450 I am loathed to pay £1850 for it (it negates the tax saving im getting from having the voucher in the first place). Also, I cant use the British Cycling discount alongside the voucher (I asked). Finally, that bike is sold out in size medium in any case.

Cr@p, forgot you couldn't use both. If you're serious about £2k, do Bird accept your vouchers?

http://www.bird.bike

Ooh good shout. If it's cycle scheme then yeah they on the list

danlightbulb

Thanks guys. yes its cyclescheme.

Paul, id prefer a better specced direct brand than a lower specced big name. Ive ridden a Decathlon Rockrider 8.1 for 6 years lol, have no issues with value for money options. This is why i havent really bothered with local indy shops, they obviously sell only big name stuff.

I did look at the Vitus Sommet, but was concerned it would be too much bike for what I need.

And Jamski, Bird are very nice, but I think id be looking at above £2k once Id added a dropper post and other slight enhancements.

If spending £2k, id really like Pike forks or at least Revelations with 35mm stantions.

jamski

danlightbulb wrote:

Thanks guys. yes its cyclescheme.

Paul, id prefer a better specced direct brand than a lower specced big name. Ive ridden a Decathlon Rockrider 8.1 for 6 years lol, have no issues with value for money options. This is why i havent really bothered with local indy shops, they obviously sell only big name stuff.

I did look at the Vitus Sommet, but was concerned it would be too much bike for what I need.

And Jamski, Bird are very nice, but I think id be looking at above £2k once Id added a dropper post and other slight enhancements.

If spending £2k, id really like Pike forks or at least Revelations with 35mm stantions.

You probably are, yeah. An NX build with Revelations and dropper is coming out at £2183. However, they may be options they can help you with to bring that down. I can't stress enough how amazing they are in every respect.

The other option for Bird would be to find a used one as they have transferable lifetime frame warranty.

danlightbulb

jamski wrote:

You probably are, yeah. An NX build with Revelations and dropper is coming out at £2183. However, they may be options they can help you with to bring that down. I can't stress enough how amazing they are in every respect.

The other option for Bird would be to find a used one as they have transferable lifetime frame warranty.

What makes you say that about them mate, other than I know you have one lol. I'm guessing 2nd hand is no good as I have the voucher to use.

jamski

I posted this on a Facebook post. Feel free to ask me anything, could talk for hours about these bikes!

I’ve had my 120 about a month now, it’s simply epic. So many reasons why I chose Bird, I’ll outline them below, in no particular order, and perhaps slightly rambling.

1. You can spec every, single, part. Yes they have their builder online, which is perfect for 99% of people, but even just using those parts it’s pretty epic. But they will order in any part for you.

2. This basically makes every bike unique. They bike really feels like mine straight away, which is pretty cool.

3. The design. I absolutely love the way they look, AND the way they work. From the geometry to the fantastically brilliant cable routing, to the fact the whole thing is just pure bike porn.

4. The service is second to none. The guys there are top class through every step of the process. The fact you can talk to the people that design and build them is great.

5. The warranty is amazing too. Lifetime transferable frame warranty is pretty rare as far as I know. Certainly for it to be dealt with as easily and swiftly as they do is.

6. It just rides brilliantly. Uphill, downhill, flat, gnarly, it’s works everywhere. And by works, I mean it absolutely smashes everything.

7. This is personal, but the ML fit is spot on. At 5’10/11” I’m always right between sizes, but the ML is just so comfy.

8. They’re pretty amazing value considering what you’re getting. Your own spec, built for you, with that warranty. It’s not bad at all.

Off the top of my head that’s it. In respect of the 120 or 145, I tested both and although my heart was set on the 145, the 120 was the obvious winner. The 145 is just so slack, it felt very alien to ride. I’m 100% sure I’d have got used to it, but the 120 just felt right, and I haven’t regretted it at all. For Swinley and the Surrey Hills it’s perfect, and will easily handle BPW and more. If you have any questions, just shout.i

danlightbulb

Ok so obviously I want the best value for money I can get, and I don't particularly care about the big name brands.

I thought I'd make a basic list and see how they compare.



In terms of head angle, they are all relatively similar give or take a degree or so, which I appreciate may be quite alot.

The 2018 Sommet is alot of travel, and slacker. Its probably too much bike.

There is only one left of the 2017 Sommet, it does however have very similar geometry to the TripleB, albeit with more travel.

The Bird 120 is the most XC of all of them it looks like, its lower travel than the Vitus Escarpe. I'm sure its a great bike but I'm just wondering if I should look for something a bit more aggressive.

I looked at the Bird 145 and up-specced the forks and brakes. I think this puts it very very similar to the final one I'll mention.

The most expensive choice on my list is the Vitus Escarpe VRX at £2500. It does however have Pikes, and Guide RE, putting it very very close to the Bird 145 that I up-specced. Its just a little shorter than the Bird.

Both Birds are quite long bikes, even compared to the Sommet. However I did choose the medium long frame size for the Bird's, everything else is medium.

jamski

You were worried about peddling. Now you want aggressive? The 120 is an out and out trail bike. It’s not XC it’s not particularly enduro, however it will do both.

Having ridden a number of bikes over the past couple of years, the really slack 145 felt really, really alien, and that front wheel stuck out so far. I’m sure I would have got used to it but the 120 felt far more natural.

I went back and forth between a lot of bikes, but in the end I decided to go for a bike that would be perfect for what I ride 99% of the time, and that’s trail centres. It will do Bike Park Wales, it would do more, but it’s a trail bike, and that’s what I ride.

So if I were you I would decide what you ride 99% of the time, and what the PERFECT bike is for that. Is it a trail bike with 120-140mm or is it more enduro with 140-170mm. Would uber slack feel weird (you need to get out and test now you know what you have to spend) and what can you honestly justify spending.

But first of all narrow down what sort of bike you NEED not want, but need. That will really help. And read reviews. The Birds are a lot more ‘capable’ than their travel suggests. Round the Surrey Hills I have travel left, which is exactly what I wanted. I personally wanted to be ever so slightly over biked, so I know it will do what I want, plus that little bit more on occasion. The 145 would have been far too much, cost more, and been harder to do what I wanted on it.

tallpaul_s

Haha, everyone loves a spreadsheet, don't they?

Don't they? :? Maybe it's just me...

I did exactly the same for my choices, once you get your head around geometry you can make some fairly good assumptions on how the bikes will ride. I'd add wheelbase, chainstay length and bottom bracket drop to your list too. Wheelbase is obvious, a longer bike will be more stabe but less agile. Reach, HA and chainstay length all contribute to this. Shorter chainstays will make a bike more agile, easier to manual, pop over rocks. Longer will be more stable, less agile, more planted. A lower BB will (yep, you guessed it!) make the bike more stable at speed and in fast corners, but less agile...

As for the specs, I hate to say it but even at £1850 the Escarpe is still winning. There's a reason I bought mine over anything else, I literally couldn't find anything that gave the same spec for the price. And there's obviously a lot of thought gone into the specs, like the 150mm dropper, the 800mm bars on the larger sizes, a chain guide. The only thing I've changed is the rear tyre, I mean unless you custom build your bike, how often can you say the only thing that NEEDED changing was a tyre?

The closest bike that came close to the spec was the Canyon Spectral AL 5.0 at £2k but that's not an option for you.

Also consider stuff like future upgrade paths - boost is here to stay and in 2 years it'll be easier to get a boost wheelset than a non-boost. Also if you buy a cheap hardtail from in a couple of years, you'll be able to swap wheels between your boost FS bike and your boost hardtail.

And don't think 130m travel isn't enough, it will be - and in return you'll get a much more agile and spritely bike for tight, twisty flat trails than if you get a longer, slacker bike with more travel.

JGTR

The Bird 120 is the most XC of all of them it looks like, its lower travel than the Vitus Escarpe. I'm sure its a great bike but I'm just wondering if I should look for something a bit more aggressive.

The Bird is the most aggressive of all those bikes, don’t let the 120mm travel fool you. I found it needed to be ridden fast to get the best out of it, at slower speeds it felt a bit slow and sluggish. Fastest I’ve ever been on a bike though I think!

danlightbulb

You're right Jamski, I was concerned about pedalling up hills. But the Vitus was recommended (and still is) and is 150mm/140mm travel, fairly long, and with only 0.5 degree head angle difference to the Bird 145. So I'm assuming that if the Vitus will be ok up hills, the Bird 145 will be too (although i don't know the weight of the Bird 145).

I ride Cannock as my home trail, but I will have trips to Wales, Forest of Dean, Hopton, as well. They are all rideable on my 6 year old XC hardtail but its sketchy and Ive pushed it as far as I can. There are black runs at Cannock I don't do, and Ive never had a go on the Stile Cop down hill trails. Whether Ive got the ability I don't know in all honesty, but I'd like to learn how to ride more aggressive stuff and do more jumping etc, bigger drops. I do still need the ability to ride it on singletrack however, so yeah, a full on Enduro bike would be too much. Im sure a slack bike will feel wierd given what Ive ridden up to now, but many of the guys Ive ridden with in the past are rocking 150mm travel and don't seem to have any issues. Maybe they are not having fun? I don't know. Its true that alot of Cannock is twisty single track, but at the same time its badly worn and rutted, i.e ruts that are half wheel depth or more in many places.

Paul - yeah I need a spreadsheet for comparison lol. Its the only way.

Maybe the £1850 Escarpe is still best out of that list for the price, but I'm annoyed that I missed the sale price. I could hold on and see whether anything comes back on sale. If CRC put that top range Vitus VRX on sale for a few hundred less I'd probably pick it straight away.

I'll add the dimensions you suggest to my sheet and see if it reveals anything.

I know that 130mm travel will be enough for 99% of the time, but like I said I do want to push harder than I ever have before. I think if there was a price gap between 130mm and the bigger travel bikes I'd go for 130mm, but they are the same price so its hard not to think that more travel is better by default.

danlightbulb

Ive added those dimensions to my list Paul. They are all very similar really.



Only thing thats really noticeable is the Bird 145 and the Sommet both have 10mm BB drops compared to 20mm BB drop on the Bird 120, the Escarpe and the TripleB.

The Bird 120 has 5mm shorter chainstays and a longer wheelbase than the Escarpe, and the frame is longer too of course as I picked medium-long.

Ive added an up-specced version of the Bird 120 with Pikes and Guide R brakes.

tallpaul_s

Now you've added those figures, I can tell you that ML Aeris 145 is LOOOOOOOOONG!!!

1230mm wheelbase is only 4mm shorter than my XL size Escarpe. If you went for the the 145 I'd suggest going for the M version, otherwise it's full on enduro long and slack levels.

For me, out of that list it's between the Bird Aeris 120 or the Escarpe VR. Keep an eye out for the Escarpe VRX, they have been putting a lot of Vitus bikes on 1 week sales recently. If they do, jump on it!

Also for the pike upgrade, if you're got revelations you can upgrade them to pikes later by adding the 2019 Debonair spring for £42 and the 2019 RCT3 Charger 2 damper for another £200. Makes them identical to 2019 Pikes.

tallpaul_s

Also one more thing - have you actually ridden a modern full suspension bike on the trails, rather then just round a car park? It will be massively more capable than your 6 year old hardtail, even a 120mm bike with modern geometry will handle everything bar double black downhill trails with ease.

20mm less travel won't make that much difference so long as the geometry is up to date. If you haven't done so I'd highly recommend trying to get to a demo day, just to ride a couple of modern FS bikes. You'll soon realise on pretty much all of them that the limiting factor isn't the bike, it's the pink fleshy bit controlling it

danlightbulb

TallPaul_S wrote:

Also one more thing - have you actually ridden a modern full suspension bike on the trails, rather then just round a car park? It will be massively more capable than your 6 year old hardtail, even a 120mm bike with modern geometry will handle everything bar double black downhill trails with ease.

20mm less travel won't make that much difference so long as the geometry is up to date. If you haven't done so I'd highly recommend trying to get to a demo day, just to ride a couple of modern FS bikes. You'll soon realise on pretty much all of them that the limiting factor isn't the bike, it's the pink fleshy bit controlling it

Ive had little goes on my mates bike, but not properly.

The thing is that my one mate has a Nukeproof Mega. Another mate had a Lapierre Zesty a few years ago, I think that was 150mm travel at the time. We all ride Cannock together, and have been over Wales together once. I can't keep up with them on the descents. If I buy a new bike, spending £2k, and still can't keep up with them, then might I think I didn't buy a bike with enough travel? Of course I could buy a downhill bike and still not keep up with them, in which case its my skills. But you see what I'm getting at. I might have regrets if I buy a bike that Im not as fast as them on, and blame the lack of travel.

I can see that even the Bird 120 is long, compared to most of the other bikes on the list even the Sommit. But if it hasn't got the travel, how will length alone help me? And won't a longer bike be harder to control over drop offs (harder to lift the front wheel?) and over jumps, and harder to negotiate up technical climbs/obsticles?

Bird do a demo for £20, which you then get back off the price of the bike. Im thinking about having a day off work and driving down to try one.

jamski

Length makes the bike more stable down hills. I went through the exact same thing, that travel means better, means quicker. If you’re full on downhill/enduro then maybe. It also needs skill. But shorter travel often means more playful.

Trust me, I ride with people on hardtail, and they simply can’t keep up with a full suss. At sale price I’d go with the Vitus. Full price, I’d go Aeris 120. Would you come down to their southern HQ to demo? I’d tag along if you wanted. As for size, the ML is perfect for me at nearly 5’11”.

jamski

I’ll attempt to weight my 120 for you this evening. Seat angle is also important for climbing. The higher the number the better. Keeps the front wheel planted.

danlightbulb

jamski wrote:

Would you come down to their southern HQ to demo? I’d tag along if you wanted. As for size, the ML is perfect for me at nearly 5’11”.

Yeah i guess id collect it then drive to Swinley to ride it? Id be having a day off work though to do it, so would be a daytime ride. Then id go back to the shop to place my order same day hopefully. But yeah if you fancy it, would be great to have company to ride with. ive never ridden swinley.

Do you have any trouble lifting the front wheel for manuals, hopping up over rocks etc? I cant bunny hop or manual now so have to learn that skill.

Im 5 ft 10.5 and 32 inch leg so the ML would be the right size for me i think.

jamski

danlightbulb wrote:

jamski wrote:

Would you come down to their southern HQ to demo? I’d tag along if you wanted. As for size, the ML is perfect for me at nearly 5’11”.

Yeah i guess id collect it then drive to Swinley to ride it? Id be having a day off work though to do it, so would be a daytime ride. Then id go back to the shop to place my order same day hopefully. But yeah if you fancy it, would be great to have company to ride with. ive never ridden swinley.

Do you have any trouble lifting the front wheel for manuals, hopping up over rocks etc? I cant bunny hop or manual now so have to learn that skill.

Im 5 ft 10.5 and 32 inch leg so the ML would be the right size for me i think.

Yeah Swinley is a 20 minute drive away from them. Just let me know when you're planning on doing it and if I can tag along I will. You're pretty much the exact same size as me, ML is the one. At the very least it will give you a good ride on a modern full suss. I can get the front wheel up no problems for hopping over the odd small log, or over muddy sections.

billycool

danlightbulb wrote:

You're right Jamski, I was concerned about pedalling up hills. But the Vitus was recommended (and still is) and is 150mm/140mm travel, fairly long, and with only 0.5 degree head angle difference to the Bird 145. So I'm assuming that if the Vitus will be ok up hills, the Bird 145 will be too (although i don't know the weight of the Bird 145).

I ride Cannock as my home trail, but I will have trips to Wales, Forest of Dean, Hopton, as well. They are all rideable on my 6 year old XC hardtail but its sketchy and Ive pushed it as far as I can. There are black runs at Cannock I don't do, and Ive never had a go on the Stile Cop down hill trails. Whether Ive got the ability I don't know in all honesty, but I'd like to learn how to ride more aggressive stuff and do more jumping etc, bigger drops. I do still need the ability to ride it on singletrack however, so yeah, a full on Enduro bike would be too much. Im sure a slack bike will feel wierd given what Ive ridden up to now, but many of the guys Ive ridden with in the past are rocking 150mm travel and don't seem to have any issues. Maybe they are not having fun? I don't know. Its true that alot of Cannock is twisty single track, but at the same time its badly worn and rutted, i.e ruts that are half wheel depth or more in many places.

Paul - yeah I need a spreadsheet for comparison lol. Its the only way.

Maybe the £1850 Escarpe is still best out of that list for the price, but I'm annoyed that I missed the sale price. I could hold on and see whether anything comes back on sale. If CRC put that top range Vitus VRX on sale for a few hundred less I'd probably pick it straight away.

I'll add the dimensions you suggest to my sheet and see if it reveals anything.

I know that 130mm travel will be enough for 99% of the time, but like I said I do want to push harder than I ever have before. I think if there was a price gap between 130mm and the bigger travel bikes I'd go for 130mm, but they are the same price so its hard not to think that more travel is better by default.

You make a lot of valid points there and it's much more difficult to buy a bike nowadays. The choice is mid boggling.

Ref what you say about travel v's what you want to ride, you seem to have found the middle ground. The temptation is to `go big` as the marketing machine seems to suggest the 150/160mm is the new standard. As you've rightly said, you've ridden a HT, so any FS should be an improvement! For me, 130/140 is plenty (see below comparisons).

At some point, rider ability has to come into the equation. As Yoda said, "Longer travel a better rider does not make".

If you had a 120mm FS bike you'd really enjoy it, as it would be an improvement on your HT. My FS is a sort of Enduro/XC bike but due to previous owner modifications, it's quite light at 13kg, so it climbs perfectly well and descends with no drama. I never exceeded the 140mm on offer. I'm not really a jumper (lack of ability) but I know it could handle it (within reason).

I got my first FS last year after 20+ years on a HT. Just like your comments, I could ride places like Cannock, and a lot of it was great fun - however - it was sketchy in places and I also couldn't keep up with FS bikes. The HT just couldn't carry the speed or cope with more technical aspects of the trail.

Getting a FS has revolutionised my riding. I still love my HT, but the FS adds a different element.

I've copied and pasted this from another post as it's comparing HT to FS and specifically mentions Cannock, BPW etc.

---

Having said that - After 20 years on HT's, I never thought I'd get a FS bike "what's the point" etc etc. I was wrong.

A FS allows me to ride the same terrain differently, and the harder, bumpier, more technical stuff, faster. I rode Pines at the weekend on my FS and had a ball. You could easily ride it on a HT but you get more trail chatter and bounce off roots a bit more etc. The FS is just more planted and gives you a great degree of control and therefore you carry more speed. You probably lose a bit on the climbs and flats (mine is about 28lbs so actually not that bad).

A FS really comes into it's element (for me) on anything vaguely downhill - doesn't have to be knarly bikepark DH but just a good fast trail with little drops offs, lips, berms and roots. You can ride it all on a HT but on a FS it's just a bit smoother and you can push things a bit harder and I'm finally getting a tiny bit of air. I find my HT tried to throw/buck/chuck me off at times due to the rigid rear end. The FS is far more forgiving. The geometry is slacker so that helps but having 140mm travel really makes a difference.

I now have a HT and FS. Both give me equally as much pleasure.

Places I've ridden both:

Bike Park Wales (uplift) HT - blues were quick and really fun (lots of trail chatter). Reds were not very enjoyable -too harsh.
FS - blues were even quicker (no trail chatter), Reds were mental (in a good way)
Cwncarn(uplift) HT - Twrch was good fun - if not a bit rocky in places and bounced off a lot of stuff - massve arm pump.
FS - Rode `over` most rocks and just more composed and carried more speed - great fun
Cwmcarn DH HT - not great - rode it by accident - less said the better
FS - still quite scary but so much more fun and could jump off stuff
Cannock Chase HT - great fun - fast and flowing, climbs really well. Final DH run limited in what I could do
FS - hooligan - fast and jumped off stuff - whoop whoop! Final descent is great fun.
Pines HT - also great fun - natural environment - some trail chatter and roots kicking me off line
FS - what trail chatter, what roots?
South Wales (Afan) HT - climbs really well - loves the technical single track - limited a bit with trail chatter/roots at times. Felt limited at times.
FS - hooilgan part 2 - the DH sections were nuts, faster, more grip/control and just mental I was whooping like a 5 year old. - climbs well but not the same was as the HT.

I did Afan 2 weeks ago and Pines last weekend. At Afan I gained more on the DH than I `lost` on the climbing (I can lock out forks and stiffen rear shock). At Pines I got round in under an hour on my FS and beat my HT time.

Not sure if that helps.

When I go back to my HT I enjoy it differently and almost ride it differently when I hve been on my FS. I rode pines recently on my HT and got some air, drops offs and stuff I wouldn't normally do - because I'd learnt it on my FS and didn't think my HT could do it. I had new skills and confidence in my HT I'd not had before.

Both are awesome but I've been pleasantly surprised by how much a FS bike has enriched my MTB, even at the tender age of 44

---

End of essay. There is no absolute answer in terms of travel, but I'd say that anything between 120mm and 140mm should give you what you are looking for. As for geometry, reach, stack, BB height etc. I've no idea :?

I would suggest you try as many bikes as you can. It's easy to get distracted by some of the hype. When you try a bike that `fits` you, you'll know.

Happy shopping.

joebristol

I’m a Bird 145 owner (and I have an old 2004 Kona Caldera as my hardtail). It’s orobably comparable to the Mega that you mention your mate has if it’s quite a new Mega. It’s very long and pretty slack - I’ve got 160mm Yari’s on the front of mine and have recently changed the rear linkage to up it to 160mm travel at the back.

For me it’s too much bike really for most of my riding, but I’m happy with that as when you get it onto the really fast / rocky stuff it’s just epic. I mostly ride Ashton Court and Leigh Woods in Bristol, then Cwmcarn in Wales and Swinley Forest where I meet my mate who lives in London.

Where it comes into it’s own is at Bike Park Wales / Flyup 417 etc - it’s a monster.

If you’re coming from a hardtail with fairly old geometry you may find it a bit of a shock though and have to change your riding style. I find it works best when you really weight the front wheel going into corners and let the rear go quite light - then it rails bends. If you don’t weight the front it doesn’t turn in well at all and can washnout in a worst case scenario.

I’ve not ridden the 120 but I imagine it would be a good halfway point between what you have and something like the 145. It is likely easier to manual / pop the front wheel and and more playful.

Some people have won uk Enduro races on the 120 - I’m sure I’ve seen it posted on the Bird owners Facebook page.

That said, the Vitus bikes look pretty good value if you don’t want to go above £2k and I’ve heard good hints about how they ride.

With Bird you’re getting almost as good value, but with excellent service direct from the owners of the company and a lifetime frame warranty. You can literally ring up and discuss spec ideas and other things you want to talk about down the line with Ben or Dan.

danlightbulb

Would it be too imbalanced if i specced the Bird 120 with 140mm forks rather than 130mm forks?

And damn it. CRCs latest weekly deals havent helped me. Theyve dropped £700 off a Domineer downhill bike but nothing on the Escarpes.

jamski

danlightbulb wrote:

Would it be too imbalanced if i specced the Bird 120 with 140mm forks rather than 130mm forks?

Nope, do it! It's stress tested to 140mm. When I get a fork service done I'll be putting in the 140mm air shaft. Had they have done the 140mm Pike when I got mine I would have got them.