Froome Vuelta salbutamol problem

iainf72

No tA Doctor wrote:

You seem to have inadvertently stumbled upon a key fact here. No amount of puffs is going to win you a bike race.

Quite. It's basically a Performance Normalising Drug.

tim000

redvision wrote:

ademort wrote:

Just a thought. I am also an asthma patient and use Ventolin Disc 200microgram . I understand that Froome uses the 100 microgram ventolin meaning he can take 16 puffs per day. Is it possible that his inhaler was putting out 200 micrograms each time and therefore doubling his Salbutomol level. I know drugs are strictly controlled etc but could it happen. At the end of the day when you use an inhaler you don,t see the medicine you just breathe in and thats it. If you take tablets or medicine in liquid form you can see what you are taking can,t you. Just a thought that he might have had a 200 microgram inhaler and not a 100 microgram inhaler. Any thoughts.

Yes, by him pressing the inhaler twice

Inhalers deliver a measured dose so no, it would not have delivered a double dosage.

some inhalers deliver 100mg and some 200 mg . could have been given the wrong one . but he is responsible for what he takes . so would still be a ban . however , im sure that would have been one of the first things they checked .

blazing_saddles

tim000 wrote:

redvision wrote:

ademort wrote:

Just a thought. I am also an asthma patient and use Ventolin Disc 200microgram . I understand that Froome uses the 100 microgram ventolin meaning he can take 16 puffs per day. Is it possible that his inhaler was putting out 200 micrograms each time and therefore doubling his Salbutomol level. I know drugs are strictly controlled etc but could it happen. At the end of the day when you use an inhaler you don,t see the medicine you just breathe in and thats it. If you take tablets or medicine in liquid form you can see what you are taking can,t you. Just a thought that he might have had a 200 microgram inhaler and not a 100 microgram inhaler. Any thoughts.

Yes, by him pressing the inhaler twice

Inhalers deliver a measured dose so no, it would not have delivered a double dosage.

some inhalers deliver 100mg and some 200 mg . could have been given the wrong one . but he is responsible for what he takes . so would still be a ban . however , im sure that would have been one of the first things they checked .

It would rather neatly explain why he was at exactly twice the threshold.
One imagines that such a scenario might put him in roughly the same sanction territory as Simon Yates, but as for an outright walk: no chance.

inseine

Blazing Saddles wrote:

tim000 wrote:

redvision wrote:

ademort wrote:

Just a thought. I am also an asthma patient and use Ventolin Disc 200microgram . I understand that Froome uses the 100 microgram ventolin meaning he can take 16 puffs per day. Is it possible that his inhaler was putting out 200 micrograms each time and therefore doubling his Salbutomol level. I know drugs are strictly controlled etc but could it happen. At the end of the day when you use an inhaler you don,t see the medicine you just breathe in and thats it. If you take tablets or medicine in liquid form you can see what you are taking can,t you. Just a thought that he might have had a 200 microgram inhaler and not a 100 microgram inhaler. Any thoughts.

Yes, by him pressing the inhaler twice

Inhalers deliver a measured dose so no, it would not have delivered a double dosage.

some inhalers deliver 100mg and some 200 mg . could have been given the wrong one . but he is responsible for what he takes . so would still be a ban . however , im sure that would have been one of the first things they checked .

It would rather neatly explain why he was at exactly twice the threshold.
One imagines that such a scenario might put him in roughly the same sanction territory as Simon Yates, but as for an outright walk: no chance.

I thought we'd agreed a million pages back that the amount in doesn't equate at all in a linier way to the recorded levels.

redvision

tim000 wrote:

redvision wrote:

ademort wrote:

Just a thought. I am also an asthma patient and use Ventolin Disc 200microgram . I understand that Froome uses the 100 microgram ventolin meaning he can take 16 puffs per day. Is it possible that his inhaler was putting out 200 micrograms each time and therefore doubling his Salbutomol level. I know drugs are strictly controlled etc but could it happen. At the end of the day when you use an inhaler you don,t see the medicine you just breathe in and thats it. If you take tablets or medicine in liquid form you can see what you are taking can,t you. Just a thought that he might have had a 200 microgram inhaler and not a 100 microgram inhaler. Any thoughts.

Yes, by him pressing the inhaler twice

Inhalers deliver a measured dose so no, it would not have delivered a double dosage.

some inhalers deliver 100mg and some 200 mg . could have been given the wrong one . but he is responsible for what he takes . so would still be a ban . however , im sure that would have been one of the first things they checked .

DB stated this week they are only concerned with proving Froome didn't take more than 16 puffs in the allowed period. Therefore his inhaler was 100mg salbutamol.

Vino'sGhost

No tA Doctor wrote:

Vino'sGhost wrote:

Q How many puffs does it take to win bike race?

You seem to have inadvertently stumbled upon a key fact here. No amount of puffs is going to win you a bike race.

And in keeping with the debate style employed frequently by you, because it obviously emphasises that no other conclusion can be drawn that isn't utterly laughable and therefore held by a complete idiot:

Your comment where you attempt to call me an idiot doesn't actually make sense. I suspect that whilst you may have identified what you believed to be a kindred spirit, you have in fact mis diagnosed.

Matthewfalle

ademort wrote:

Just a thought. I am also an asthma patient and use Ventolin Disc 200microgram . I understand that Froome uses the 100 microgram ventolin meaning he can take 16 puffs per day. Is it possible that his inhaler was putting out 200 micrograms each time and therefore doubling his Salbutomol level. I know drugs are strictly controlled etc but could it happen. At the end of the day when you use an inhaler you don,t see the medicine you just breathe in and thats it. If you take tablets or medicine in liquid form you can see what you are taking can,t you. Just a thought that he might have had a 200 microgram inhaler and not a 100 microgram inhaler. Any thoughts.

then he is an idiot for not checking his medication.

would you go around sticking anything in your body you hadn't double checked? I certainly don't.

larkim

In light of the posts which seem to require someone dealing with some asthmatic symptoms during a race to be immediately hospitalised because they must be critically ill, I refer you to hold meal winning Lizzie Yarnold today.

"After the first run I wasn't sure whether I was going to be able to finish the race because my chest infection was so bad I was struggling to breathe and I got here only with the help of my team."

redvision

larkim wrote:

In light of the posts which seem to require someone dealing with some asthmatic symptoms during a race to be immediately hospitalised because they must be critically ill, I refer you to hold meal winning Lizzie Yarnold today.

"After the first run I wasn't sure whether I was going to be able to finish the race because my chest infection was so bad I was struggling to breathe and I got here only with the help of my team."

Yes but a chest infection is not an asthma attack.
A chest infection is obviously a serious condition but an asthma attack can kill within minutes.

tailwindhome

iainf72 wrote:

No tA Doctor wrote:

You seem to have inadvertently stumbled upon a key fact here. No amount of puffs is going to win you a bike race.

Quite. It's basically a Performance Normalising Drug.

Even if that's true, it's irrelevant.

ademort

tim000 wrote:

redvision wrote:

ademort wrote:

Just a thought. I am also an asthma patient and use Ventolin Disc 200microgram . I understand that Froome uses the 100 microgram ventolin meaning he can take 16 puffs per day. Is it possible that his inhaler was putting out 200 micrograms each time and therefore doubling his Salbutomol level. I know drugs are strictly controlled etc but could it happen. At the end of the day when you use an inhaler you don,t see the medicine you just breathe in and thats it. If you take tablets or medicine in liquid form you can see what you are taking can,t you. Just a thought that he might have had a 200 microgram inhaler and not a 100 microgram inhaler. Any thoughts.

Yes, by him pressing the inhaler twice

Inhalers deliver a measured dose so no, it would not have delivered a double dosage.

some inhalers deliver 100mg and some 200 mg . could have been given the wrong one . but he is responsible for what he takes . so would still be a ban . however , im sure that would have been one of the first things they checked .

Thats what i mean he could have been given an inhaler labelled with 100mg but was in fact 200mg. Would he have known, No. Would he be responsible for taking it, surely not.Can he prove it ?????

redvision

ademort wrote:

tim000 wrote:

redvision wrote:

ademort wrote:

Just a thought. I am also an asthma patient and use Ventolin Disc 200microgram . I understand that Froome uses the 100 microgram ventolin meaning he can take 16 puffs per day. Is it possible that his inhaler was putting out 200 micrograms each time and therefore doubling his Salbutomol level. I know drugs are strictly controlled etc but could it happen. At the end of the day when you use an inhaler you don,t see the medicine you just breathe in and thats it. If you take tablets or medicine in liquid form you can see what you are taking can,t you. Just a thought that he might have had a 200 microgram inhaler and not a 100 microgram inhaler. Any thoughts.

Yes, by him pressing the inhaler twice

Inhalers deliver a measured dose so no, it would not have delivered a double dosage.

some inhalers deliver 100mg and some 200 mg . could have been given the wrong one . but he is responsible for what he takes . so would still be a ban . however , im sure that would have been one of the first things they checked .

Thats what i mean he could have been given an inhaler labelled with 100mg but was in fact 200mg. Would he have known, No. Would he be responsible for taking it, surely not.Can he prove it ?????

But DB implied that Froome will demonstrate he took up to the maximum but not over. If the inhaler was 200mg the salbutamol level in his urine would have been far higher than it was.

If he did have an incorrect inhaler first of all its easy for him to notice as it would be a different colour, but I'm fairly sure it would have already been made public as there would be an investigation in to the pharmacy or doctor who administered it.

Think you're clutching at straws.

Matthewfalle

redvision wrote:

ademort wrote:

tim000 wrote:

redvision wrote:

ademort wrote:

Just a thought. I am also an asthma patient and use Ventolin Disc 200microgram . I understand that Froome uses the 100 microgram ventolin meaning he can take 16 puffs per day. Is it possible that his inhaler was putting out 200 micrograms each time and therefore doubling his Salbutomol level. I know drugs are strictly controlled etc but could it happen. At the end of the day when you use an inhaler you don,t see the medicine you just breathe in and thats it. If you take tablets or medicine in liquid form you can see what you are taking can,t you. Just a thought that he might have had a 200 microgram inhaler and not a 100 microgram inhaler. Any thoughts.

Yes, by him pressing the inhaler twice

Inhalers deliver a measured dose so no, it would not have delivered a double dosage.

some inhalers deliver 100mg and some 200 mg . could have been given the wrong one . but he is responsible for what he takes . so would still be a ban . however , im sure that would have been one of the first things they checked .

Thats what i mean he could have been given an inhaler labelled with 100mg but was in fact 200mg. Would he have known, No. Would he be responsible for taking it, surely not.Can he prove it ?????

But DB implied that Froome will demonstrate he took up to the maximum but not over. If the inhaler was 200mg the salbutamol level in his urine would have been far higher than it was.

If he did have an incorrect inhaler first of all its easy for him to notice as it would be a different colour, but I'm fairly sure it would have already been made public as there would be an investigation in to the pharmacy or doctor who administered it.

Think you're clutching at straws.

Ffs

No he wouldn’t have been given the wrong inhaler

Yes he would have known

No it wouldn’t give exactly double the reading

As above - straws, clutch, blinkered.

bobmcstuff

I suppose it's physically possible he was given the wrong inhaler, but it sounds hugely unlikely and in any case wouldn't stop him getting a ban.

tim000

Matthewfalle wrote:

redvision wrote:

ademort wrote:

tim000 wrote:

redvision wrote:

ademort wrote:

Just a thought. I am also an asthma patient and use Ventolin Disc 200microgram . I understand that Froome uses the 100 microgram ventolin meaning he can take 16 puffs per day. Is it possible that his inhaler was putting out 200 micrograms each time and therefore doubling his Salbutomol level. I know drugs are strictly controlled etc but could it happen. At the end of the day when you use an inhaler you don,t see the medicine you just breathe in and thats it. If you take tablets or medicine in liquid form you can see what you are taking can,t you. Just a thought that he might have had a 200 microgram inhaler and not a 100 microgram inhaler. Any thoughts.

Yes, by him pressing the inhaler twice

Inhalers deliver a measured dose so no, it would not have delivered a double dosage.

some inhalers deliver 100mg and some 200 mg . could have been given the wrong one . but he is responsible for what he takes . so would still be a ban . however , im sure that would have been one of the first things they checked .

Thats what i mean he could have been given an inhaler labelled with 100mg but was in fact 200mg. Would he have known, No. Would he be responsible for taking it, surely not.Can he prove it ?????

But DB implied that Froome will demonstrate he took up to the maximum but not over. If the inhaler was 200mg the salbutamol level in his urine would have been far higher than it was.

If he did have an incorrect inhaler first of all its easy for him to notice as it would be a different colour, but I'm fairly sure it would have already been made public as there would be an investigation in to the pharmacy or doctor who administered it.

Think you're clutching at straws.

Ffs

No he wouldn’t have been given the wrong inhaler

Yes he would have known

No it wouldn’t give exactly double the reading

As above - straws, clutch, blinkered.

got to agree , thinking overdoing an inhaler is going to turn you in to superman is clutching at straws.

blazing_saddles

Matthewfalle wrote:

As above - straws, clutch, blinkered.

Ffs, it's just something to play about with on another slow day.
Nobody said it happened.
It isn't a straw being clutched.
As for blinkered: that applies to anybody who made their mind up, as soon as the story broke.

tailwindhome

Blazing Saddles wrote:

As for blinkered: that applies to anybody who made their mind up, as soon as the story broke.

Who waited that long?

Matthewfalle

bobmcstuff wrote:

I suppose it's physically possible he was given the wrong inhaler, but it sounds hugely unlikely and in any case wouldn't stop him getting a ban.

so

pharmacy blokes gives wronginhaler to gopher without checking label

gopher gives wrong inhaler to Dr without checking label

Dr gives wrong inhaler to Froome without checking label

Froome blindly sticks random stuff in himself without checking label


yeah, right

tim000

don't think I`ve ever checked mine . but then im not going to get tested anymore .

blazing_saddles

TailWindHome wrote:

Blazing Saddles wrote:

As for blinkered: that applies to anybody who made their mind up, as soon as the story broke.

Who waited that long?

Touché.

No_Ta_Doctor

Blazing Saddles wrote:

TailWindHome wrote:

Blazing Saddles wrote:

As for blinkered: that applies to anybody who made their mind up, as soon as the story broke.

Who waited that long?

Touché.

This * 1000.

bobmcstuff

Matthewfalle wrote:

bobmcstuff wrote:

I suppose it's physically possible he was given the wrong inhaler, but it sounds hugely unlikely and in any case wouldn't stop him getting a ban.

so

pharmacy blokes gives wronginhaler to gopher without checking label

gopher gives wrong inhaler to Dr without checking label

Dr gives wrong inhaler to Froome without checking label

Froome blindly sticks random stuff in himself without checking label


yeah, right

So what part of "hugely unlikely" didn't make sense?

I agree, it sounds hugely unlikely.

tim000

bobmcstuff wrote:

Matthewfalle wrote:

bobmcstuff wrote:

I suppose it's physically possible he was given the wrong inhaler, but it sounds hugely unlikely and in any case wouldn't stop him getting a ban.

so

pharmacy blokes gives wronginhaler to gopher without checking label

gopher gives wrong inhaler to Dr without checking label

Dr gives wrong inhaler to Froome without checking label

Froome blindly sticks random stuff in himself without checking label


yeah, right

So what part of "hugely unlikely" didn't make sense?

I agree, it sounds hugely unlikely.

ive come to the conclusion matthew doesn't read some of the posts he quotes . :roll:

blazing_saddles

Just had to post the latest piece of negative Sky spotlighting from our beloved CN.
No need to read the link, just the comment taken from underneath, which is a succinct summation.

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/elisson ... bach-case/

So the story is about someone who has not given evidence in this case, has not been asked to give evidence, and says he would have nothing to give if asked. And there's no suggestion that they are even thinking of asking him. That's a story?

Matthewfalle

tim000 wrote:

bobmcstuff wrote:

Matthewfalle wrote:

bobmcstuff wrote:

I suppose it's physically possible he was given the wrong inhaler, but it sounds hugely unlikely and in any case wouldn't stop him getting a ban.

so

pharmacy blokes gives wronginhaler to gopher without checking label

gopher gives wrong inhaler to Dr without checking label

Dr gives wrong inhaler to Froome without checking label

Froome blindly sticks random stuff in himself without checking label


yeah, right

So what part of "hugely unlikely" didn't make sense?

I agree, it sounds hugely unlikely.

ive come to the conclusion matthew doesn't read some of the posts he quotes . :roll:

Who doesn’t?

StillGoing

Wrong labelling of inhalers or faulty delivery system. Shows manufacturing mistakes with inhalers can happen.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-43144944

Bo Duke

philthy3 wrote:

Wrong labelling of inhalers or faulty delivery system. Shows manufacturing mistakes with inhalers can happen.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-43144944

Froome wins on a technicality, now lets move on!

Mad_Malx

Resurrection:
https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2018/ ... SApp_Other

Only 3 Salbutamol aaf in last 2 years, all resulted in charges, say ukad. (edit - 3 years)

larkim

That's definitely an interesting insight which certainly counters an expectation that I had which was that this was relatively frequent.

bobmcstuff

What's the interaction between UKAD and UCI's anti doping, Froome doesn't get tested by UKAD does he?