Whats going to happen to all the non disc brake bikes?

ZMC888

meanredspider wrote:

This thread is just a prime example of why I don’t bother posting on BR any more because it’s such a waste of time using fact and logic on the internet. I’ve broken my resolution this morning because I’m bored waiting for the rest of the house to wake up.

I’m sure I’ve been described as “evangelical” about disc brakes (and Di2 for that matter) and I think the term is particularly ironic. For me, it’s like the Creationist Evangelical wing of the church describing proponents of evolution by natural selection as “evangelical” - supporters of the old order attacking those who use science and evidence to support their position. Comparing VHS and Betamax is a nonsense in this context. Rim brakes have been around my entire life on road bikes (over 50 years pretty much unaltered) and discs have arrived in the last 7 or so on commercially available road bikes (a bit longer on CX).

I’ve ALWAYS said rim brakes are fine. I have a “Team Issue” Scott Foil with rim brakes just to prove the point - which I bought AFTER I bought my Volagi (one of the very first commercially available disc road bikes). If I’m “evangelical”, I’m a very strange evangelist. The point (for me, at least) is that you’re trading outright braking performance for something else (weight, aesthetics, cost etc). And that’s fine. I was fine with the Foil because I was riding in N Holland (standard double & 12-23 cassette) - brakes, even for a larger guy like me, aren’t really important when you hardly ever use them. Aero, however small, when you are doing 80km into a gale on an exposed raised path, is. So, if you live somewhere flat, or you are very light, or you only ride in the dry, or (provocatively) you’re not much good with mechanical stuff, rim brakes are possibly the best choice.

But where you won’t get me to agree is that rim brakes perform as well as disc brakes. One of the more amusing (to my eyes) arguments is that you just ride slower on rims. It does at least acknowledge that rim brakes are poorer but tries to wrap it up in some sort of twisted logic.

Actions speak louder than words. When I did Alpe D’HuZes (charity event - 6x up (and 5 down) Alpe d’Huez in a day), I had the choice of the Scott Foil or the Volagi Liscio. The Scott is lighter but on rims and the Volagi heavier but with discs. Hardest physical event I was ever likely to do with 6500m of climbing. Based upon my experience of both bikes, I took the Volagi (even meant I had to fly it from Scotland to NL first) because the advantage of discs on the descents outweighed (literally) the disadvantage on the climbs. BTW, I heard several tyres, if not rims, go bang on the descents that day.

Anyhow, I’m not going to rehearse the factual arguments for discs. Everyone reading this will have read them before and, if you’ve ignored them then, you’ll ignore them now. And you’ll still believe god created the world in 7 days. And you’ll still call me “evangelical”.

In the meantime, that’s people waking up and I’m off to ride my bike.

As you were.

A complete load of anecdotal guff, with barely a point made whatsoever.
As you were.

keith57

Personally, I’m getting a bit bored with all the personal attacks on the tinterweb...

This wouldn’t happen as much in ‘real life’.

Much happier just riding my bike, drinking red wine and being nice to my friends...!

Happy New Year All (even the miserable and rude ones, ... you know who you are...)

MiddleRinger

Keith57 wrote:

Much happier just riding my bike, drinking red wine and being nice to my friends...!

Me too. Except I don't have any friends. So just cycling and red wine it is!

About to head out for an hour's relaxed paced New Years Day ride.

kajjal

ZMC888 wrote:

Kajjal wrote:

Ask the question to mountain bikers and they will think you are crazy.

Disc brakes have several times more braking force which leads to more consistency, better feel and less effort in use. On looser surfaces , in the wet and for heavier riders they are a noticeable improvement. Light riders in the dry with good quality rim brakes not so much.

I am a Enduro MTB rider and road rider. I'm sorry but I feel you are trying to put words into my mouth with your comment.

Fact is I much prefer rim brakes on road bikes and disks on MTBs. I have three mountain bikes all with disks, one with Shimano XT, another SLX and another with older squeely Avid Juicy, oh and a CX with BB7 road.

What's wrong with disks then?
-Can be a pig to set up properly.
-Pistons get dirty brakes can rub.
-Pads can be expensive and can easily glaze over and get contaminated.
-Need to be bled at least once a season, can be tricky to get air out of the system.
-Rotors are often warped out of the box and on new bikes. It can be a pig truing them properly.

However for Mountain bikes all these disadvantages are well worth it to have much more powerful brakes, making them a no-brainer.

But for road I feel caliper brakes are superior. Why?
-Light weight. I just don't need to be adding an extra 600g to my bike. It doesn't sound like much but it's the difference between a stellar wheelset and a cheapo OEM set.
-To get a lightweight climbing type bike around the UCI weight limit of 6.8kg you'll have to spend lots more money on a bike.
-Road bikes have narrow tires, you just don't need more power such a small contact patch. I can endo on my 105 brakes and leave black lines anywhere I want in the dry, I don't need any more power than that.
-Road bike disk brakes from personal experience feel castrated. Like someone in the health and safety department didn't want a noob to go over the bars. If it were a case of having brakes that felt like Shinmao Saints but on my road bike, I'd be keener, but they don't.
-Rim brakes potential development is by no means over. Shimano 105 are fantastic brakes, and the new Ultrega are even better, there could even by more development in rim coatings and brake pads to really improve rim performance even in the wet.
-We don't really know what disk size and axle standards are going to be the eventual universal standard yet.
-Caliper brakes are incredibly easy to set up and adjust.

If you find disc brakes hard to setup and maintain it makes sense you prefer rim brakes. This may be why you just associate disc brakes with power rather than control. My disc brakes don’t rub and the rotors are fine.

My road bike has hydraulic r785 disc brakes, they are the same as the the m785 xt brakes on mountain bikes. I weight about 100kg and am 2m tall, I have had none of the problems you have had with disc brakes on any bike except twice getting mild contamination on my road bike. Even then it broke far better than the 105 brakes on my older road bike. Cable disc brakes are not close to quality hydraulic disc brakes. At my weight as as mentioned in my previous post rim brakes are poor. My wife who does mountain biking tried a road bike with ultegra rim brakes and thought they were terrible compared to the hydraulic disc brakes on her mountain bike.

If you prefer rim brakes go for it, the main things is to be out there enjoying it.

kammybear

In 10 years the vast majority of bikes and ALL serious bikes will be disc, just like with mountain bikes.

I'm holding out but my next big bike will be disk...probably in 4-5 years!

keezx

kammybear wrote:

In 10 years the vast majority of bikes and ALL serious bikes will be disc, just like with mountain bikes.

I can't wait to see it happen, waiting for the flood of fine 2end hand stuff coming on the market.
The sooner the better, I have great trust in the cycling part of mankind being followers of fashion and marketing.

Shuggy76

Keezx wrote:

kammybear wrote:

In 10 years the vast majority of bikes and ALL serious bikes will be disc, just like with mountain bikes.

I can't wait to see it happen, waiting for the flood of fine 2end hand stuff coming on the market.
The sooner the better, I have great trust in the cycling part of mankind being followers of fashion and marketing.

This, basically. Suck up the marketing all you sheeple, haven't you heard how great road disc brakes are? Let us luddites have dibs on those inferior bikes soonest

Barry danger

Shuggy76 wrote:

Keezx wrote:

kammybear wrote:

In 10 years the vast majority of bikes and ALL serious bikes will be disc, just like with mountain bikes.

I can't wait to see it happen, waiting for the flood of fine 2end hand stuff coming on the market.
The sooner the better, I have great trust in the cycling part of mankind being followers of fashion and marketing.

This, basically. Suck up the marketing all you sheeple, haven't you heard how great road disc brakes are? Let us luddites have dibs on those inferior bikes soonest

We don't like change in our village we don't. Off with ya motorised vehicle ya devil . My horse gets me about just fine thanks you .

Man Of Lard

Surely it'll be like when you buy an ereader: Amazon send a truck to your house to remove every paper book you own & prevent you from buying another paper book ever again.

Shuggy76

Barry danger wrote:

Shuggy76 wrote:

Keezx wrote:

kammybear wrote:

In 10 years the vast majority of bikes and ALL serious bikes will be disc, just like with mountain bikes.

I can't wait to see it happen, waiting for the flood of fine 2end hand stuff coming on the market.
The sooner the better, I have great trust in the cycling part of mankind being followers of fashion and marketing.

This, basically. Suck up the marketing all you sheeple, haven't you heard how great road disc brakes are? Let us luddites have dibs on those inferior bikes soonest

We don't like change in our village we don't. Off with ya motorised vehicle ya devil . My horse gets me about just fine thanks you .

Alright Dolly!

ben@31

mac111051 wrote:

I remember when Honda bought out the CB750 with disc brakes, that would never catch on, and electric start that was just stupid

Does Belgian cyclist Femke Van den Driessche and maybe Fabian Cancellara? Have an electric start on their bikes ?

DavidJB

At the end of the day who really cares?