Whats going to happen to all the non disc brake bikes?

Barry danger

Barry danger wrote:

De Sisti wrote:

Barry danger wrote:

Discs are simply superior brakes. You want a lighter bike using rims then fair play but arguing that road bikes do not need discs and it's a marketing ploy is ridiculous. Most of us who love discs are probably ex mtb riders who like to ride without thinking about how they have to alter there their braking due to various weather conditions. We just like our kit to work how it should. Discs are the way forward and the dinosaurs will have to get used to it and considering the speeds that are obtainable on road bikes it seems ludicrous people would want an antiquated braking system on there their pride and joy.

Yeah rim brakes argument side win due to us disc brake lovers being thick and unable to spell. Argument over rim brakes rule .

Barry danger

Bikes`n`guns wrote:

I have a cx bike with disc, but under no circumstances will my road bikes ever have discs.

Just building a bespoke Rourke with rim brakes, why ? because discs are as ugly as sin. Simple.

Looks over performance. Says it all and that's what the argument is really about.

Matthewfalle

Barry danger wrote:

Bikes`n`guns wrote:

I have a cx bike with disc, but under no circumstances will my road bikes ever have discs.

Just building a bespoke Rourke with rim brakes, why ? because discs are as ugly as sin. Simple.

Looks over performance. Says it all and that's what the argument is really about.

Is there any performance advantage of discs over rims?

Bear in mind all factors prior to answering please.

Lookyhere

Barry danger wrote:

Bikes`n`guns wrote:

I have a cx bike with disc, but under no circumstances will my road bikes ever have discs.

Just building a bespoke Rourke with rim brakes, why ? because discs are as ugly as sin. Simple.

Looks over performance. Says it all and that's what the argument is really about.

Ridden both, if disc were better, i d have them, as i ve got on my MTBs but the tyre/tarmac interface is totally different, there is just so little grip on a road bike.
Personally, i ve never felt the need for more powerful brakes on a road bike and modulation is just fine with rim, there is a winter/rain wheel rim wear argument i ll grant you, esp with factory wheels.

But lets face it, disc look cr@p on a road bike

cycleclinic

All the rim brake road and cx bikes will be ridden. I have a cx frame with cantus I must build up.

Barry danger

Lookyhere wrote:

Barry danger wrote:

Bikes`n`guns wrote:

I have a cx bike with disc, but under no circumstances will my road bikes ever have discs.

Just building a bespoke Rourke with rim brakes, why ? because discs are as ugly as sin. Simple.

Looks over performance. Says it all and that's what the argument is really about.

Ridden both, if disc were better, i d have them, as i ve got on my MTBs but the tyre/tarmac interface is totally different, there is just so little grip on a road bike.
Personally, i ve never felt the need for more powerful brakes on a road bike and modulation is just fine with rim, there is a winter/rain wheel rim wear argument i ll grant you, esp with factory wheels.

But lets face it, disc look cr@p on a road bike

there is a winter/rain wheel rim wear argument i ll grant you, esp with factory wheels

Exactly . Discs work perfect/ better than rims in all conditions ...why choose looks over performance unless it's the weight factor which is negligible in itself

Lookyhere

Barry danger wrote:

Lookyhere wrote:

Barry danger wrote:

Bikes`n`guns wrote:

I have a cx bike with disc, but under no circumstances will my road bikes ever have discs.

Just building a bespoke Rourke with rim brakes, why ? because discs are as ugly as sin. Simple.

Looks over performance. Says it all and that's what the argument is really about.

Ridden both, if disc were better, i d have them, as i ve got on my MTBs but the tyre/tarmac interface is totally different, there is just so little grip on a road bike.
Personally, i ve never felt the need for more powerful brakes on a road bike and modulation is just fine with rim, there is a winter/rain wheel rim wear argument i ll grant you, esp with factory wheels.

But lets face it, disc look cr@p on a road bike

there is a winter/rain wheel rim wear argument i ll grant you, esp with factory wheels

Exactly . Discs work perfect/ better than rims in all conditions ...why choose looks over performance unless it's the weight factor which is negligible in itself

In your opinion.

We are not going to change each others minds, personally when ABS is the norm on a road bike, then i ll try them again.

DavidJB

I have a TCR Advanced SL0 with rim brakes for racing and just got a TCR with disc brakes for training. I must say disc's are much better for braking due to the modulation and it's nice that they work in the wet.

Matthewfalle

Matthewfalle wrote:

Barry danger wrote:

Bikes`n`guns wrote:

I have a cx bike with disc, but under no circumstances will my road bikes ever have discs.

Just building a bespoke Rourke with rim brakes, why ? because discs are as ugly as sin. Simple.

Looks over performance. Says it all and that's what the argument is really about.

Is there any performance advantage of discs over rims?

Bear in mind all factors prior to answering please.

still waiting

Barry danger

Matthewfalle wrote:

Matthewfalle wrote:

Barry danger wrote:

Bikes`n`guns wrote:

I have a cx bike with disc, but under no circumstances will my road bikes ever have discs.

Just building a bespoke Rourke with rim brakes, why ? because discs are as ugly as sin. Simple.

Looks over performance. Says it all and that's what the argument is really about.

Is there any performance advantage of discs over rims?

Bear in mind all factors prior to answering please.

still waiting

Just ride a road bike with discs for one week in the British winter . It seems crazy that you are convinced that rim brakes are equal or superior to discs . I personally don't care what people prefer to ride but not accepting discs perform better in all conditions is backwards thinking .

mamba80

Barry danger wrote:

Matthewfalle wrote:

Matthewfalle wrote:

Barry danger wrote:

Bikes`n`guns wrote:

I have a cx bike with disc, but under no circumstances will my road bikes ever have discs.

Just building a bespoke Rourke with rim brakes, why ? because discs are as ugly as sin. Simple.

Looks over performance. Says it all and that's what the argument is really about.

Is there any performance advantage of discs over rims?

Bear in mind all factors prior to answering please.

still waiting

Just ride a road bike with discs for one week in the British winter . It seems crazy that you are convinced that rim brakes are equal or superior to discs . I personally don't care what people prefer to ride but not accepting discs perform better in all conditions is backwards thinking .

You do care though dont you? like DI2 fans, disk braked fans seem almost evangelical in forcing their views on anyone who dares disagree.

Doesnt matter if they are better or not, its what you are prefer/like to use, as said earlier, the tech is is in its infancy and ABS will be the next "must have"

Barry danger

I'm not forcing my views on anyone ...simply saying discs perform better than rim brakes . People can use whatever they wish but I'll choose performance over tradition or because people simply believe rims " look better " every time. I'm relatively new to road biking which is probably why I hold no love for how a road bike "should look ".

On the other hand many years ago when 27 and 29 inch wheels were proposed for mountain bikes over the 26 I was aghast at this and said it would never take off and was just a fad and ploy to get more money off us ....

charlie_potatoes

mamba80 wrote:

You do care though dont you? like DI2 fans, disk braked fans seem almost evangelical in forcing their views on anyone who dares disagree.

There is a certain amount of panic and buyers remorse amongst some early adopters. They seem desperate for disc's to be adopted by the masses. I liken this to the VHS vs Betamax war. Betamax owners were very evangelical about their superior product. We had VHS

Barry danger

Charlie Potatoes wrote:

mamba80 wrote:

You do care though dont you? like DI2 fans, disk braked fans seem almost evangelical in forcing their views on anyone who dares disagree.

There is a certain amount of panic and buyers remorse amongst some early adopters. They seem desperate for disc's to be adopted by the masses. I liken this to the VHS vs Betamax war. Betamax owners were very evangelical about their superior product. We had VHS

Well I actually see you as the betamax owner . And I'm not desperate for the masses to ride discs .I simply chucked my 2 p into the pot because of the comments about road bikes do not need discs and there's no performance difference which there absolutely is . If people want to ride machines at high speeds with unreliable brakes good on em but I have not got the balls for that and prefer discs .

thegreatdivide

Barry danger wrote:

Well I actually see you as the betamax owner . And I'm not desperate for the masses to ride discs .I simply chucked my 2 p into the pot because of the comments about road bikes do not need discs and there's no performance difference which there absolutely is . If people want to ride machines at high speeds with unreliable brakes good on em but I have not got the balls for that and prefer discs .

Cycling might not be the sport for you then pal.

In my 30 odd years of riding road bikes I have NEVER thought to myself 'I really need disc brakes'. But then again, I know how to ride a road bike properly and safely in any condition from snow, to rain, to ar$e clenching mountain descents.

Barry danger

thegreatdivide wrote:

Barry danger wrote:

Well I actually see you as the betamax owner . And I'm not desperate for the masses to ride discs .I simply chucked my 2 p into the pot because of the comments about road bikes do not need discs and there's no performance difference which there absolutely is . If people want to ride machines at high speeds with unreliable brakes good on em but I have not got the balls for that and prefer discs .

Cycling might not be the sport for you then pal.

In my 30 odd years of riding road bikes I have NEVER thought to myself 'I really need disc brakes'. But then again, I know how to ride a road bike properly and safely in any condition from snow, to rain, to ar$e clenching mountain descents.

Kind of a ridiculous comment . Have you ever rode discs on those ass clenching descents ? The thing about discs is you don't really need to alter your braking style in any conditions because they just work .Am I a pussy because I like the best performance I can get from my equipment ? You sound like you would be even faster with discs

cookeeemonster

mamba80 wrote:

Barry danger wrote:

Matthewfalle wrote:

Matthewfalle wrote:

Barry danger wrote:

Bikes`n`guns wrote:

I have a cx bike with disc, but under no circumstances will my road bikes ever have discs.

Just building a bespoke Rourke with rim brakes, why ? because discs are as ugly as sin. Simple.

Looks over performance. Says it all and that's what the argument is really about.

Is there any performance advantage of discs over rims?

Bear in mind all factors prior to answering please.

still waiting

Just ride a road bike with discs for one week in the British winter . It seems crazy that you are convinced that rim brakes are equal or superior to discs . I personally don't care what people prefer to ride but not accepting discs perform better in all conditions is backwards thinking .

You do care though dont you? like DI2 fans, disk braked fans seem almost evangelical in forcing their views on anyone who dares disagree.

Genuinely, it's the rimmers who are evangelical regarding their opinions. Disc owners will happily give their opinion based on their experiences, but it's the rimmers who keep BANGING ON AND ON AND ON AND ON AND ON AND ON AND ON AND ON in threads like this.

NOBODY CARES. PLEASE FOR THE LOVE OF GOD LET THIS THREAD DIE AND JUST RIDE WHATEVER THE HELL YOU WANT TO RIDE!!!

I have both rim and disc brake bikes. They are both good. I'm lucky. xx

kajjal

Ask the question to mountain bikers and they will think you are crazy.

Disc brakes have several times more braking force which leads to more consistency, better feel and less effort in use. On looser surfaces , in the wet and for heavier riders they are a noticeable improvement. Light riders in the dry with good quality rim brakes not so much.

DeVlaeminck

Why would I take advice from a MTBer about a road bike? I've had road and MTB discs and I prefer the feel/modulation of rim brakes to the road discs I've tried.

Yes discs have advantages but there are arguments both ways, for a race bike I'd go with rim brakes.

Matthewfalle

Barry danger wrote:

Matthewfalle wrote:

Matthewfalle wrote:

Barry danger wrote:

Bikes`n`guns wrote:

I have a cx bike with disc, but under no circumstances will my road bikes ever have discs.

Just building a bespoke Rourke with rim brakes, why ? because discs are as ugly as sin. Simple.

Looks over performance. Says it all and that's what the argument is really about.

Is there any performance advantage of discs over rims?

Bear in mind all factors prior to answering please.

still waiting

Just ride a road bike with discs for one week in the British winter . It seems crazy that you are convinced that rim brakes are equal or superior to discs . I personally don't care what people prefer to ride but not accepting discs perform better in all conditions is backwards thinking .

But that’s not taking into account all factors though is it? Far, far from.

I’ll give you a second chance - remember, this time take into account all factors. Put yourself in the shoes of a road cyclist.

Barry danger

Matthewfalle wrote:

Barry danger wrote:

Matthewfalle wrote:

Matthewfalle wrote:

Barry danger wrote:

Bikes`n`guns wrote:

I have a cx bike with disc, but under no circumstances will my road bikes ever have discs.

Just building a bespoke Rourke with rim brakes, why ? because discs are as ugly as sin. Simple.

Looks over performance. Says it all and that's what the argument is really about.

Is there any performance advantage of discs over rims?

Bear in mind all factors prior to answering please.

still waiting

Just ride a road bike with discs for one week in the British winter . It seems crazy that you are convinced that rim brakes are equal or superior to discs . I personally don't care what people prefer to ride but not accepting discs perform better in all conditions is backwards thinking .

But that’s not taking into account all factors though is it? Far, far from.

I’ll give you a second chance - remember, this time take into account all factors. Put yourself in the shoes of a road cyclist.

Mathew, you tell me where rims out perform discs should be the question. Weight is the only possible thing but as I've said that's negligible . I'm not an arsehole preaching everyone should ride discs , I understand the tradition in road biking and have fallen in love with it after 20 odd years of laughing at fat blokes dressed up as camp ninjas (of which I'm now a proud camp ninja myself ) . I only stated my opinion on the matter due to people saying there is no need for them on a road bike and there is no difference in performance . I also ride at least 10 hours a week on a road bike so do consider myself a road cyclist . I thank you for giving me a second chance as I would not of been able to sleep otherwise ... but dude ....just fooking state your bloody reasoning instead of going all yoda !

mac111051

I remember when Honda bought out the CB750 with disc brakes, that would never catch on, and electric start that was just stupid

trivial_poursuivant

mac111051 wrote:

I remember when Honda bought out the CB750 with disc brakes, that would never catch on, and electric start that was just stupid

Almost as stupid as trying to compare a motor vehicle to a pedal bike.

mercia_man

mac111051 wrote:

I remember when Honda bought out the CB750 with disc brakes, that would never catch on, and electric start that was just stupid

As someone who started motorcycling in the mid-60s on British bikes with feeble drum brakes and kick starters, I really appreciated the advent of disc brakes and electric starters. They made a big difference to my enjoyment of motorcycling.

But I don't reckon the performance advantage of discs for road bicycles is so marked. I'm perfectly happy with modern twin pivot rim brakes, mechanical gearing and tubed tyres. I understand them, they work really well and I can fix and maintain them easily. This has been a big factor for me during 30 years of cycle touring. I just like the classic simplicity of a traditional road bike and have no desire for discs, electronic gears or tubeless tyres. I've tried them, but I can't say they felt like a huge leap forward despite what the evangelists assert.

Indexed gears, clipless pedals and combination brakes/shifters are, I feel, the really transformative and useful technological advances of my time in cycling.

milemuncher1

Charlie Potatoes wrote:

mamba80 wrote:

You do care though dont you? like DI2 fans, disk braked fans seem almost evangelical in forcing their views on anyone who dares disagree.

There is a certain amount of panic and buyers remorse amongst some early adopters. They seem desperate for disc's to be adopted by the masses. I liken this to the VHS vs Betamax war. Betamax owners were very evangelical about their superior product. We had VHS

Betamax was technically the better system. Betamax was killed by the problem of incompatibility with manufacturers other than Sony’s equipment, and lack of recording space, on a Betamax tape.

ZMC888

Kajjal wrote:

Ask the question to mountain bikers and they will think you are crazy.

Disc brakes have several times more braking force which leads to more consistency, better feel and less effort in use. On looser surfaces , in the wet and for heavier riders they are a noticeable improvement. Light riders in the dry with good quality rim brakes not so much.

I am a Enduro MTB rider and road rider. I'm sorry but I feel you are trying to put words into my mouth with your comment.

Fact is I much prefer rim brakes on road bikes and disks on MTBs. I have three mountain bikes all with disks, one with Shimano XT, another SLX and another with older squeely Avid Juicy, oh and a CX with BB7 road.

What's wrong with disks then?
-Can be a pig to set up properly.
-Pistons get dirty brakes can rub.
-Pads can be expensive and can easily glaze over and get contaminated.
-Need to be bled at least once a season, can be tricky to get air out of the system.
-Rotors are often warped out of the box and on new bikes. It can be a pig truing them properly.

However for Mountain bikes all these disadvantages are well worth it to have much more powerful brakes, making them a no-brainer.

But for road I feel caliper brakes are superior. Why?
-Light weight. I just don't need to be adding an extra 600g to my bike. It doesn't sound like much but it's the difference between a stellar wheelset and a cheapo OEM set.
-To get a lightweight climbing type bike around the UCI weight limit of 6.8kg you'll have to spend lots more money on a bike.
-Road bikes have narrow tires, you just don't need more power such a small contact patch. I can endo on my 105 brakes and leave black lines anywhere I want in the dry, I don't need any more power than that.
-Road bike disk brakes from personal experience feel castrated. Like someone in the health and safety department didn't want a noob to go over the bars. If it were a case of having brakes that felt like Shinmao Saints but on my road bike, I'd be keener, but they don't.
-Rim brakes potential development is by no means over. Shimano 105 are fantastic brakes, and the new Ultrega are even better, there could even by more development in rim coatings and brake pads to really improve rim performance even in the wet.
-We don't really know what disk size and axle standards are going to be the eventual universal standard yet.
-Caliper brakes are incredibly easy to set up and adjust.

meanredspider

This thread is just a prime example of why I don’t bother posting on BR any more because it’s such a waste of time using fact and logic on the internet. I’ve broken my resolution this morning because I’m bored waiting for the rest of the house to wake up.

I’m sure I’ve been described as “evangelical” about disc brakes (and Di2 for that matter) and I think the term is particularly ironic. For me, it’s like the Creationist Evangelical wing of the church describing proponents of evolution by natural selection as “evangelical” - supporters of the old order attacking those who use science and evidence to support their position. Comparing VHS and Betamax is a nonsense in this context. Rim brakes have been around my entire life on road bikes (over 50 years pretty much unaltered) and discs have arrived in the last 7 or so on commercially available road bikes (a bit longer on CX).

I’ve ALWAYS said rim brakes are fine. I have a “Team Issue” Scott Foil with rim brakes just to prove the point - which I bought AFTER I bought my Volagi (one of the very first commercially available disc road bikes). If I’m “evangelical”, I’m a very strange evangelist. The point (for me, at least) is that you’re trading outright braking performance for something else (weight, aesthetics, cost etc). And that’s fine. I was fine with the Foil because I was riding in N Holland (standard double & 12-23 cassette) - brakes, even for a larger guy like me, aren’t really important when you hardly ever use them. Aero, however small, when you are doing 80km into a gale on an exposed raised path, is. So, if you live somewhere flat, or you are very light, or you only ride in the dry, or (provocatively) you’re not much good with mechanical stuff, rim brakes are possibly the best choice.

But where you won’t get me to agree is that rim brakes perform as well as disc brakes. One of the more amusing (to my eyes) arguments is that you just ride slower on rims. It does at least acknowledge that rim brakes are poorer but tries to wrap it up in some sort of twisted logic.

Actions speak louder than words. When I did Alpe D’HuZes (charity event - 6x up (and 5 down) Alpe d’Huez in a day), I had the choice of the Scott Foil or the Volagi Liscio. The Scott is lighter but on rims and the Volagi heavier but with discs. Hardest physical event I was ever likely to do with 6500m of climbing. Based upon my experience of both bikes, I took the Volagi (even meant I had to fly it from Scotland to NL first) because the advantage of discs on the descents outweighed (literally) the disadvantage on the climbs. BTW, I heard several tyres, if not rims, go bang on the descents that day.

Anyhow, I’m not going to rehearse the factual arguments for discs. Everyone reading this will have read them before and, if you’ve ignored them then, you’ll ignore them now. And you’ll still believe god created the world in 7 days. And you’ll still call me “evangelical”.

In the meantime, that’s people waking up and I’m off to ride my bike.

As you were.

mamba80

meanredspider wrote:

This thread is just a prime example of why I don’t bother posting on BR any more because it’s such a waste of time using fact and logic on the internet. I’ve broken my resolution this morning because I’m bored waiting for the rest of the house to wake up.

But where you won’t get me to agree is that rim brakes perform as well as disc brakes. One of the more amusing (to my eyes) arguments is that you just ride slower on rims. It does at least acknowledge that rim brakes are poorer but tries to wrap it up in some sort of twisted logic.

what you still dont quite get is much like your arguments on DI2 and also now on disc, is we dont all share your opinion.

also, never yet heard anyone say they ride slower on rim brakes as an argument for rim, do they really?

why do advocates of DI2 or disc always start threads either directly or in more round-about ways, stating their superior wisdom in buying these products and why everyone else is wrong?

it really doesnt matter, enjoy your bikes and your morning ride, been a bit rough up your neck of the woods and have a happy new year.

meanredspider

mamba80 wrote:

what you still dont quite get is much like your arguments on DI2 and also now on disc, is we dont all share your opinion.

The thing is, it isn’t opinion, it’s fact that disc braking performance is better. As I said, I’m not going to bother rehearsing the engineering arguments - I’ve typed them far far too often in response to the opinion that they aren’t.

mamba80 wrote:

also, never yet heard anyone say they ride slower on rim brakes as an argument for rim, do they really?

Yes - take Trivial Pursuivant (sp?) a couple of pages back saying he just (I think it was in capitals) takes his time on descents so you don’t need better brakes.

mamba80 wrote:

why do advocates of DI2 or disc always start threads either directly or in more round-about ways, stating their superior wisdom in buying these products and why everyone else is wrong?

Speaking for myself, I’ve almost never posted in anything other than response to someone saying how pointless/rubbish/stupid discs and Di2 are. I try to avoid opinion and stick to the facts. Take Di2: my oldest system is in its 7th year I think - other than charge the battery occasionally, I’ve literally not touched it and has just shifted faultlessly. Same goes for each of my newer systems. No mechanical system would have taken the abuse my Di2 has and behaved the same (I’ve run plenty of them to know). The thing that people don’t seem to get (especially with the evangelical comments) is that I simply don’t care what anybody else chooses. Just don’t expect me to agree when you say discs or Di2 are crap - usually based upon almost no experience.

mamba80 wrote:

it really doesnt matter, enjoy your bikes and your morning ride, been a bit rough up your neck of the woods and have a happy new year.

I live between Cambridge and Cotswolds these days - missing the Highlands - would love to be doing the fire roads today.

That’s it from me. Happy New Year to all on here - even you, Sloppy

charlie_potatoes

I think the title of this thread should be changed to "Whats going to happen to all the disc brake bikes?"