Whats going to happen to all the non disc brake bikes?

fat daddy

I have a chain ring that looks just like that .... think its time for a new one .... or I could just use it as a rotor

Alex99

lostboysaint wrote:

PBlakeney wrote:

on-yer-bike wrote:

I was more referring to the marketing pressure. Many cyclists wont be seen dead with rim brakes soon whether they are necessary or not. I suspect there are some cyclists who justify rim brakes to themselves on the basis that the pros still use them, but that will all change soon.

Those people are mugs.
I have better things to spend money on.

Like, for example, wheel rims?!

You think rims on disk wheels will last forever? If the lifetime of the component needs to increase because braking sidewall wear WAS the limiting factor, now fatigue will be the limiting factor. We'll see higher spoke count and beefier rims as the norm.

mfin

Most people seem quite happy to carry on rimming, even if it is accepted the other way makes gently feathering more effective. Grip is always a factor whether at the rim or the contact surface. Wetness is when performance can really be assessed, and of course lube is best kept well away and just on equipment that needs it.

on-yer-bike

:-)

Mapaputsi

I’m with the OP on this to some regard, agree that there will be better value on second hand rim-brake bikes in the next few years as the many Sunday cyclists and part-timers part with their rim brake bikes for the next big thing (hopefully!).

Would not say that it is the ‘nail in the coffin’ for rim brakes though.

homers_double

on-yer-bike wrote:

I was more referring to the marketing pressure. Many cyclists wont be seen dead with rim brakes soon whether they are necessary or not. I suspect there are some cyclists who justify rim brakes to themselves on the basis that the pros still use them, but that will all change soon.

I didn't crumble to marketing pressure when I bought a disc specific Trek, neither do I justify keeping my winter rim braked bike on the basis that "its what pro's ride".

The simple fact is, whether you like it or not, discs perform better. The flip side is that rim brakes can perform adequately too.

It simply boils down to what you want personally. Then buy the red version.

DeVlaeminck

I expect to see a glut of one owner disc braked bikes as people realise they fell for the marketing hype and get fed up of having heavy and unnecessarily complicated brakes which don't work any better than rim brakes.

Matthewfalle

If anyone has any obsolete Obermayers they don't want I don't mind popping past to pick them up.

on-yer-bike

Here we go...
http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtop ... t=13087628

keith57

My Parlee Z5 SLi still comes in under 6kg, makes it rather good for going uphill, where I tend not to need my brakes much!

Going downhill the DA brakes are also still rather good, so I can't see myself ever selling it.

My new Trek Emonda SLR8, with disks is great for when it's raining, which it does a lot!! Heavy at a tad over 7kg though....

I don't race or ride expensive Sportives (why pay to ride on public roads?), so it all doesn't really matter to me

debeli

I am sure they will sweep in and have a major effect on the market, but that doesn't have to mean there will be a sudden glut of caliper-brakes bikes on the market.

In most conditions my Campag caliper will stand my road bike on its nose at the beginni g or end of a long and hilly ride. That is all I ask of it. The brakes are light, effective, reliable and easy to set up and adjust. Parts are cheap.

I can still buy cassettes and chain rings for old 3x7 bikes... and chains too. Even mechs and shifters. Little will change. The big internet retailers may move on, but all this stuff is cheap and entity through the LBS.

I was a late and reluctant convert to discs on MTBs... and I was a bit cross that they were so good: Little pressure at the lever, almost no date over the longest ride and less prone to collecting mud, water and grit. Nonetheless, I still have v-brake and canti MTBs as well and that are still a good ride.

As for road... I think that I and many others will stay with that they know and what has not met them down over many decades. Coincidentally that same thing is also light. Very light. Hurrah for rim brakes, with a quiet and accepting not towards hydraulic discs on mud-pluggers.

zefs

You only need discs if you
do long descends with a lot of breaking
ride in the rain
want carbon wheels that will last longer and be safer

Snowblind

I am not a fair-weather cyclist and I ride in heavy rain often. Often enough that if I could justify buying a new frameset, wheels and levers/brakes to make the switch to disc brakes, I absolutely would. However, I can't and I am sure many are in the same boat or simply can't afford to purchase brand new bikes at the drop of the latest product advancements.

Disc brakes offer superior performance, but they have an associated cost many can't meet. Additionally, there is the aesthetic factor that should not be underestimated (particularly for the 'older' generation).

trivial_poursuivant

I look at many of the arguments for discs that people use. Here are a few:

Better braking modulation. True, but is that to say the current rim brakes are rubbish? No! Rim brakes have never been so good. They can stop you plenty in even the worst conditions.

No rim wear. Many people don’t ride rims to destruction. They generally either buy new well before then or something else goes first. Hubs go, crashed or buckled wheel and whether it’s cost effective to repair.

Those who have this idea that they are better in races cos you can brake later etc, what you think this is? F1? Bike racing doesn’t work that that way! There is very little time to be made up from having better brakes racing around a closed track or similar which is what the vast majority of racing in the UK is. The thought that going downhill at 50mph happens is fantasy. This may be what you see on pro elite racing but they pretty much know how to handle themselves no matter what they are riding. They push the limits cos they have the skills to do so.

I also read the comments of ‘I can descend safer full stop’ - I have never worried about rim brakes going downhill on exceptionally steep hills. I just TAKE MY TIME. There is nothing to be gained from flying down a hill as speed to the point im worried my brakes won’t stop me. If it’s wet just slow down - chances are (if your that shallow) Strava KOMs won’t be falling in the wet. If it’s dry - I go as fast as I feel safe. I’m not racing. So why the rush?

Which to me is one of the reasons why People suddenly feel the need for better brakes, aero bikes, sub 6kg builds, Strava - or the need to want to look good in front of people they never met. Ooh look. I got another KOM on a bit of nondescript Tarmac no one actually gives a flying fig about.

Racing is something only about 1-2% of people do regularly. The average cat 4 race will have many first timers. Many never return and just went for the experience or feel intimidated or just are not good enough at the time. Club runs are probably the only real place where discs will be useful to the masses. But again - these are social rides where if you are not waiting for the slowest of the group it’s a bit sh1t.

End of it all. Discs offer an alternative braking system but for the most, it changes nothing. People will ride the same way they always did. They won’t make people superstars. They won’t cause colossal pileups. They just mean people can stop a little bit quicker. It’s a gimmick to rip money out of your pocket, hoping to last long enough while the big companies figure out the next way of taking your hard earned money. My guess it’s when they lobby for change in bike design away from the traditional 2 triangle shape. Once they allow bikes to look different they’ll start pushing that. Then we can have the same arguments over that instead.

sloppyschleckonds

You have to feel for those that bought expensive rim brake bikes, only to sell them losing several hundreds of £££s to end up with a disc brake version of the same bike that 6 months down the road they'll realise it gives them nothing more than they had before. Great marketing.

Matthewfalle

SloppySchleckonds wrote:

You have to feel for those that bought expensive rim brake bikes, only to sell them losing several hundreds of £££s to end up with a disc brake version of the same bike that 6 months down the road they'll realise it gives them nothing more than they had before. Great marketing.

Totes negatron dude - it gives them lots more.

Weight and initial expense generally, but at least that's something.

thegreatdivide

Trivial poursuivant wrote:

I look at many of the arguments for discs that people use. Here are a few:

Better braking modulation. True, but is that to say the current rim brakes are rubbish? No! Rim brakes have never been so good. They can stop you plenty in even the worst conditions.

No rim wear. Many people don’t ride rims to destruction. They generally either buy new well before then or something else goes first. Hubs go, crashed or buckled wheel and whether it’s cost effective to repair.

Those who have this idea that they are better in races cos you can brake later etc, what you think this is? F1? Bike racing doesn’t work that that way! There is very little time to be made up from having better brakes racing around a closed track or similar which is what the vast majority of racing in the UK is. The thought that going downhill at 50mph happens is fantasy. This may be what you see on pro elite racing but they pretty much know how to handle themselves no matter what they are riding. They push the limits cos they have the skills to do so.

I also read the comments of ‘I can descend safer full stop’ - I have never worried about rim brakes going downhill on exceptionally steep hills. I just TAKE MY TIME. There is nothing to be gained from flying down a hill as speed to the point im worried my brakes won’t stop me. If it’s wet just slow down - chances are (if your that shallow) Strava KOMs won’t be falling in the wet. If it’s dry - I go as fast as I feel safe. I’m not racing. So why the rush?

Which to me is one of the reasons why People suddenly feel the need for better brakes, aero bikes, sub 6kg builds, Strava - or the need to want to look good in front of people they never met. Ooh look. I got another KOM on a bit of nondescript Tarmac no one actually gives a flying fig about.

Racing is something only about 1-2% of people do regularly. The average cat 4 race will have many first timers. Many never return and just went for the experience or feel intimidated or just are not good enough at the time. Club runs are probably the only real place where discs will be useful to the masses. But again - these are social rides where if you are not waiting for the slowest of the group it’s a bit sh1t.

End of it all. Discs offer an alternative braking system but for the most, it changes nothing. People will ride the same way they always did. They won’t make people superstars. They won’t cause colossal pileups. They just mean people can stop a little bit quicker. It’s a gimmick to rip money out of your pocket, hoping to last long enough while the big companies figure out the next way of taking your hard earned money. My guess it’s when they lobby for change in bike design away from the traditional 2 triangle shape. Once they allow bikes to look different they’ll start pushing that. Then we can have the same arguments over that instead.

And that folks is the correct answer.

milemuncher1

Rim brakes aren’t going anywhere. As soon as the majority of leisure cyclists start to realise what a relative PITA, they are on a road bike, the uptake of disc braked roadies will drop off. The main driving force thus far, has been the ‘early adopters’ wanting to have the latest kit. That won’t last.

apreading

Braking later isnt just about racing. Its not just a performance thing. It means that if something unexpected happens you can react more quickly, and the inexperienced dont get caught out by not braking early enough. This is multiplied exponentially when its wet - rim brakes have to clear the water first before doing much, discs work pretty much immediately. This is particularly useful in traffic when cars cut across in front of you.

You also feel differently when you cycle with your children, they are on rim brakes and you have discs. You suddenly realise when they cant stop before a T-Junction that their ability to stop is so much worse than yours and that the bike being able to brake later/quicker would make them safer.

trivial_poursuivant

apreading wrote:

Braking later isnt just about racing. Its not just a performance thing. It means that if something unexpected happens you can react more quickly, and the inexperienced dont get caught out by not braking early enough. This is multiplied exponentially when its wet - rim brakes have to clear the water first before doing much, discs work pretty much immediately. This is particularly useful in traffic when cars cut across in front of you.

You also feel differently when you cycle with your children, they are on rim brakes and you have discs. You suddenly realise when they cant stop before a T-Junction that their ability to stop is so much worse than yours and that the bike being able to brake later/quicker would make them safer.

Everything you just said falls into the club or social Ride category and I mentioned that. If you are out on your own then you tend to (I hope) look further up the road to anticipate incidents. Too many people driving look barely past the end of their bonnets. You should be looking further up the road for things. In a group ride you maybe don’t do this so much if your second, third wheel etc. I just rode 50 miles on partly icy country roads. I constantly had my head up looking for the next obstacle. Nothing should come as a sudden surprise at the last second. Even cars pulling out at junctions. I anticipate and slow. Don’t need ninja disc stopping power for that. You just use your brain.

apreading

You cant always anticipate a rabbit, a pothole or a car doing something unpredictable. And you cant always see around a bend on country lanes and dont always know them well enough to anticipate what will be around the other side.

Things do often happen suddenly and also you may need alot of distance to stop if going fast, downhill and/or weigh 14 stone.

Yes you anticipate as much as you can but if better brakes are more forigiving when you dont get it right for your fault or someone/somthing elses fault then surely that is both safer and better?

fat daddy

Trivial poursuivant wrote:

Nothing should come as a sudden surprise at the last second..

I cant believe people spend extra money on swissstop pads .... why not just use clarkes, they are cheaper and more than adequate, why people want better braking when clarkes pads are more than capable of stopping the bike in any conditions.

In seriousness though .... I wish there was a rim brake lover that would man up and just admit that Discs are better at braking .. but they dont like the looks so are sticking with rims.

Now lets talk sudden surprises .... rode the '97 Klein in today with rim brakes on it .... did about 4miles in 1/2ft deep snow .... got out the snow approached the road looking for a gap to hop off the kerb, touched the brakes and NOTHING ... now I am not talking, steep descent, rim brakes wet nothing, I am talking absolutely nothing, no brakes what so ever, full pull, lever goes solid .. braking ?? .. nill, nada, nothing, zip !

ice is impressive ... compare that to the other day when I was riding in through axle deep water in -1deg and on exiting the water the disk brakes would seemingly come on as the water turned to ice and wedged the calipers and the disk together

my point ??? ........ none at all, just wanted to brag about my heroic riding

trivial_poursuivant

You can’t predict a pothole? Do they move? Maybe look at the road.

Going downhill fast. You ride to the conditions if you’re too stupid to do that you kind of get what you deserve imo. The faster you go the further ahead you anticipate. If you need to rely on your brakes to bail you out cos your going too fast to be able to react in time then no amount of better brakes are saving you.

trivial_poursuivant

fat daddy wrote:

Trivial poursuivant wrote:

Nothing should come as a sudden surprise at the last second..

In seriousness though .... I wish there was a rim brake lover that would man up and just admit that Discs are better at braking .. but they dont like the looks so are sticking with rims.

That works both ways. I bet there are a few people who sold a rim brakes bike to buy a disc brakes bike and although the braking is a bit better , overall there is nothing else better to justify their decision. But they wouldn’t say anything cos who would admit that?

apreading

Trivial poursuivant wrote:

You can’t predict a pothole? Do they move? Maybe look at the road.

Going downhill fast. You ride to the conditions if you’re too stupid to do that you kind of get what you deserve imo. The faster you go the further ahead you anticipate. If you need to rely on your brakes to bail you out cos your going too fast to be able to react in time then no amount of better brakes are saving you.

You cant always see potholes in advance because of the angle hiding it until you get closer or maybe because its dark. Or they are around a bend in the road, or there is a car in front of you meaning you dont see it until the car passes over it.

This is my last post on this thread because I recognise your name from trolling in previous threads so I know which way this will go if we try to use logic or the laws of physics to argue with you!

Anyway, with this attitude, natural selection will come into play at some point and you will suddenly stop posting on here...

Barry danger

Discs are simply superior brakes . You want a lighter bike using rims then fair play but arguing that road bikes do not need discs and it's a marketing ploy is ridiculous . Most of us who love discs are probably ex mtb riders who like to ride without thinking about how they have to alter there braking due to various weather conditions .We just like our kit to work how it should . Discs are the way forward and the dinosaurs will have to get used to it and considering the speeds that are obtainable on road bikes it seems ludicrous people would want an antiquated braking system on there pride and joy .

de_sisti

Barry danger wrote:

Discs are simply superior brakes. You want a lighter bike using rims then fair play but arguing that road bikes do not need discs and it's a marketing ploy is ridiculous. Most of us who love discs are probably ex mtb riders who like to ride without thinking about how they have to alter there their braking due to various weather conditions. We just like our kit to work how it should. Discs are the way forward and the dinosaurs will have to get used to it and considering the speeds that are obtainable on road bikes it seems ludicrous people would want an antiquated braking system on there their pride and joy.

trivial_poursuivant

apreading wrote:

Trivial poursuivant wrote:

You can’t predict a pothole? Do they move? Maybe look at the road.

Going downhill fast. You ride to the conditions if you’re too stupid to do that you kind of get what you deserve imo. The faster you go the further ahead you anticipate. If you need to rely on your brakes to bail you out cos your going too fast to be able to react in time then no amount of better brakes are saving you.

You cant always see potholes in advance because of the angle hiding it until you get closer or maybe because its dark.

Then. You. Still. Won’t. See. Them. No. Matter. What. Brakes. You. Have!!

I suggest riding to the conditions. If you can’t see something until you are almost upon it, slow down. Simple as that. All I can say is , if your only just seeing things so late the few seconds a disc brake gives you are all that saves you, you are riding like a mong.

I laugh at you saying you won’t post again and call me a troll. It’s an open forum, anyone any everyone are free to submit their opinions. You, me , anyone. It’s not for you to decide who is right and who is wrong, who the f@ck are you?? Either join the debate or leave. I don’t care either way but don’t come here calling people trolls just because you cannot form an adult discussion without getting all upset. There is no right or wrong it’s people opinions. I give mine. I play devils advocate for some of it. Otherwise the threads can become boring. Unfortunately some are a bit too sensitive for a bit of banter or discussions which they can’t handle.

bikes`n`guns

I have a cx bike with disc, but under no circumstances will my road bikes ever have discs.

Just building a bespoke Rourke with rim brakes, why ? because discs are as ugly as sin. Simple.

Barry danger

De Sisti wrote:

Barry danger wrote:

Discs are simply superior brakes. You want a lighter bike using rims then fair play but arguing that road bikes do not need discs and it's a marketing ploy is ridiculous. Most of us who love discs are probably ex mtb riders who like to ride without thinking about how they have to alter there their braking due to various weather conditions. We just like our kit to work how it should. Discs are the way forward and the dinosaurs will have to get used to it and considering the speeds that are obtainable on road bikes it seems ludicrous people would want an antiquated braking system on there their pride and joy.