Las Vegas

rick_chasey

Matthewfalle wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

Haha so do you?

TBH, if you carry it on your way to the shops on your free time, you might want to re-evaluate a few life choices.

God no, I hate the frickin' things, although I do carry them for work. They are massively inconvenient if you really want to know.

And why would I want to re-evaluate a few life choices?

I take it you're not a risk taker or like serving your country then?

Which one?

rjsterry

Matthewfalle wrote:

I take it you're not a risk taker or like serving your country then?

No, I don't think Rick is a civil servant with a gambling problem

Matthewfalle

Rick Chasey wrote:

Matthewfalle wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

Haha so do you?

TBH, if you carry it on your way to the shops on your free time, you might want to re-evaluate a few life choices.

God no, I hate the frickin' things, although I do carry them for work. They are massively inconvenient if you really want to know.

And why would I want to re-evaluate a few life choices?

I take it you're not a risk taker or like serving your country then?

Which one?

either/either.

Matthewfalle

rjsterry wrote:

Matthewfalle wrote:

I take it you're not a risk taker or like serving your country then?

No, I don't think Rick is a civil servant with a gambling problem

true. even civil servants are useful sometimes...

pblakeney

Graeme_S wrote:

Matthewfalle wrote:

I worked in the NHS and frequently had to call the Feds to help out on jobs. If she's never felt threatened then I wish I had her job.

She doesn't work in the community anymore, but it would have been mainly elderly people she would have been visiting. She's a physiotherapist, I think it was stroke rehab she was doing last time she worked in the community. She's doing heart failure and cardiac rehab in a hospital based role now.

Matthewfalle wrote:

And I'm not a particularly small, naïve or wall flower type

Neither's Mrs S (she's 5'11")

My wife is coming home (hopefully) from yet another shift of full time community nursing.
She and her colleagues regularly have to treat junkies in their dens. It is not all nurse Gladys.

rick_chasey

Matthewfalle wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

Matthewfalle wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

Haha so do you?

TBH, if you carry it on your way to the shops on your free time, you might want to re-evaluate a few life choices.

God no, I hate the frickin' things, although I do carry them for work. They are massively inconvenient if you really want to know.

And why would I want to re-evaluate a few life choices?

I take it you're not a risk taker or like serving your country then?

Which one?

either/either.

Nah.

I'd struggle with allegiances, and I'd be more of a liability than a help.

I work with enough ex forces as it is. All my bosses since I started have been ex-forces.

Matthewfalle

rjsterry wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

Who here walks around the U.K. with a gun?

If not, why not?

Nope. Not even in a slightly scruffy bit of south London.

Clearly we're all oblivious to the ever-present danger. Last I heard the police were struggling to find firearms officers, but I'll concede it's not something I follow closely. Got any actual figures MF?

Let me have a dig around but you are entirely correct - they want/need loads but can't recruit.

Matthewfalle

Rick Chasey wrote:

Matthewfalle wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

Matthewfalle wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

Haha so do you?

TBH, if you carry it on your way to the shops on your free time, you might want to re-evaluate a few life choices.

God no, I hate the frickin' things, although I do carry them for work. They are massively inconvenient if you really want to know.

And why would I want to re-evaluate a few life choices?

I take it you're not a risk taker or like serving your country then?

Which one?

either/either.

Nah.


I'd be more of a liability than a help.

We guessed.

Matthewfalle

PBlakeney wrote:

Graeme_S wrote:

Matthewfalle wrote:

I worked in the NHS and frequently had to call the Feds to help out on jobs. If she's never felt threatened then I wish I had her job.

She doesn't work in the community anymore, but it would have been mainly elderly people she would have been visiting. She's a physiotherapist, I think it was stroke rehab she was doing last time she worked in the community. She's doing heart failure and cardiac rehab in a hospital based role now.

Matthewfalle wrote:

And I'm not a particularly small, naïve or wall flower type

Neither's Mrs S (she's 5'11")

My wife is coming home (hopefully) from yet another shift of full time community nursing.
She and her colleagues regularly have to treat junkies in their dens. It is not all nurse Gladys.

This 100%.

The smackers don't like it when you Narcan them because they lose their high and they tend to go oriental like a chicken on you and have a pop. It can turn a tad inconvenient.

rjsterry

Matthewfalle wrote:

rjsterry wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

Who here walks around the U.K. with a gun?

If not, why not?

Nope. Not even in a slightly scruffy bit of south London.

Clearly we're all oblivious to the ever-present danger. Last I heard the police were struggling to find firearms officers, but I'll concede it's not something I follow closely. Got any actual figures MF?

Let me have a dig around but you are entirely correct - they want/need loads but can't recruit.

The survey that BT posted suggests Met officers at least are some what ambivalent - "we'll carry them if we're told to but we're in no rush". You sure you haven't got a slightly skewed view?

briantrumpet

rjsterry wrote:

Matthewfalle wrote:

rjsterry wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

Who here walks around the U.K. with a gun?

If not, why not?

Nope. Not even in a slightly scruffy bit of south London.

Clearly we're all oblivious to the ever-present danger. Last I heard the police were struggling to find firearms officers, but I'll concede it's not something I follow closely. Got any actual figures MF?

Let me have a dig around but you are entirely correct - they want/need loads but can't recruit.

The survey that BT posted suggests Met officers at least are some what ambivalent - "we'll carry them if we're told to but we're in no rush". You sure you haven't got a slightly skewed view?

I have a recollection of other UK police surveys being strongly against wider firearms carrying by them, on the whole. Will have a dig around.

EDIT - 1995, "A survey (1995) of police attitudes to armed patrols found:
79% of police officers said they were not in favour of being routinely armed. But 40% said more officers should be trained to use firearms" Make of that what you will.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/static ... police.stm

Matthewfalle

Not sure how biased/unbiased the FT is but this quite interesting with figures quoted therein from the Govt.
https://www.ft.com/content/55639ffe-407 ... 8?mhq5j=e5

Let me see if I can find anything direct from the Govt itself.

Matthewfalle

rjsterry wrote:

Matthewfalle wrote:

rjsterry wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

Who here walks around the U.K. with a gun?

If not, why not?

Nope. Not even in a slightly scruffy bit of south London.

Clearly we're all oblivious to the ever-present danger. Last I heard the police were struggling to find firearms officers, but I'll concede it's not something I follow closely. Got any actual figures MF?

Let me have a dig around but you are entirely correct - they want/need loads but can't recruit.

The survey that BT posted suggests Met officers at least are some what ambivalent - "we'll carry them if we're told to but we're in no rush". You sure you haven't got a slightly skewed view?

In which way? Towards or against? Or another!

Matthewfalle

briantrumpet wrote:

rjsterry wrote:

Matthewfalle wrote:

rjsterry wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

Who here walks around the U.K. with a gun?

If not, why not?

Nope. Not even in a slightly scruffy bit of south London.

Clearly we're all oblivious to the ever-present danger. Last I heard the police were struggling to find firearms officers, but I'll concede it's not something I follow closely. Got any actual figures MF?

Let me have a dig around but you are entirely correct - they want/need loads but can't recruit.

The survey that BT posted suggests Met officers at least are some what ambivalent - "we'll carry them if we're told to but we're in no rush". You sure you haven't got a slightly skewed view?

I have a recollection of other UK police surveys being strongly against wider firearms carrying by them, on the whole. Will have a dig around.

EDIT - 1995, "A survey (1995) of police attitudes to armed patrols found:
79% of police officers said they were not in favour of being routinely armed. But 40% said more officers should be trained to use firearms" Make of that what you will.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/static ... police.stm

The Guardian reported a few weeks back that "over half" (no exact percentile given) of Met Police wanted more armed [police but 1 in 10 said they would quit if they were forced to carry one.

So the majority want it but a minority will leave of forced to do so. Seems standard.

briantrumpet

Though it seems that support for more routine armed policemen is on the rise. http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/ho ... 63626.html

However: "The greatest support among the 32,300 officers surveyed was for guns not to be issued routinely to all officers, but for more police to be trained to use firearms so they could use them when needed."

graeme_s-2

PBlakeney wrote:

My wife is coming home (hopefully) from yet another shift of full time community nursing.
She and her colleagues regularly have to treat junkies in their dens. It is not all nurse Gladys.

I didn’t say she’d never felt threatened. I said she’d never wished she could carry a firearm. She was doing home visits in a former mining area. Not everyone immediately wants to arm themselves because they’ve encountered an unpleasant or threatening situation.

briantrumpet

But.... there were just seven occasions in 2016 when UK police fired guns. http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/po ... 60391.html

Here's a list of police deaths, in sortable columns. Six shot dead since 2003. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_B ... ne_of_duty

mfin

Matthewfalle wrote:

mfin wrote:

Matthewfalle wrote:

Most bobbies don't which is why there has been has massive increase in recruitment for armed busies/busies with Issued Tasers.

I don't think you quite understand the real world but it's fine.

Why are you saying most don't feel safe because they don't have guns. The ones I know personally have never said anything to that affect. Maybe it is true, I don't know. Where are you getting that information from? (That most don't feel safe)

One. Now that's the results of a survey we can all trust..............

Where was he working out of interest?

Eh? I was asking where you were getting the information from that police officers don't feel safe cos they don't have guns? Are you just making it up because all I was saying is I know a couple very well who don't seem to have ever mentioned this that's all. So if it's true, where is your information from?

I see the bit above about an amount of police wanting more armed police but it's not quite the same as saying a police officer doesn't feel safe without a gun.

Have you ever had any use of guns by the way?

EDIT: Ah, I see below you are in the forces? That explains a lot.

briantrumpet

Of course, any change in policy would have to be driven by whether arming officers actually improved safety, not the perception of safety. The view from gun owners in the US is that guns make them feel safer, but the statistics of gun deaths in the US would appear to suggest that they are not.

rick_chasey

Matthewfalle wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

Matthewfalle wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

Matthewfalle wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

Haha so do you?

TBH, if you carry it on your way to the shops on your free time, you might want to re-evaluate a few life choices.

God no, I hate the frickin' things, although I do carry them for work. They are massively inconvenient if you really want to know.

And why would I want to re-evaluate a few life choices?

I take it you're not a risk taker or like serving your country then?

Which one?

either/either.

Nah.


I'd be more of a liability than a help.

We guessed.

I guess they don't teach charm in the forces

But you're arguing a funny point, I have to say.

Would you want Britain to be a nation where carrying guns is normal every day behaviour?

Professional soldiers and police don't really count.

mamba80

I d be against routine arming of the UK Police, the levels of violence here are just not comparable with SA or USA.

Having said that, they are armed in almost all of Europe and is hasnt appeared to have led to an increase in criminal shootings/attacks on the Police anymore than here.

there absolutely no requirement for joe punter to carry a gun of any type, would be a disaster, we could however hold a referendum? let the people speak.

briantrumpet

mamba80 wrote:

there absolutely no requirement for joe punter to carry a gun of any type, would be a disaster, we could however hold a referendum? let the people speak.

Yes, referendums are always the best way to sort out complex issues involving nuanced arguments. What could possibly go wrong?

sloppyschleckonds

briantrumpet wrote:

mamba80 wrote:

there absolutely no requirement for joe punter to carry a gun of any type, would be a disaster, we could however hold a referendum? let the people speak.

Yes, referendums are always the best way to sort out complex issues involving nuanced arguments. What could possibly go wrong?

You'll get 17 million idiots pointing at a slogan on a bus and nodding

Matthewfalle

Rick Chasey wrote:

Matthewfalle wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

Matthewfalle wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

Matthewfalle wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

Haha so do you?

TBH, if you carry it on your way to the shops on your free time, you might want to re-evaluate a few life choices.

God no, I hate the frickin' things, although I do carry them for work. They are massively inconvenient if you really want to know.

And why would I want to re-evaluate a few life choices?

I take it you're not a risk taker or like serving your country then?

Which one?

either/either.

Nah.


I'd be more of a liability than a help.

We guessed.

I guess they don't teach charm in the forces

rjsterry

Matthewfalle wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

In fairness, if guns were banned, and the ban well enforced she wouldn't need to carry the gun in the first place.

Which is the whole argument, you numpty.

Andy anyway, my argument was, it's all very well waving a gun at someone, but if they pull one out themselves, you better be prepared to shoot them.

Hence, my point about 'if you're gonna be armed, you need to be prepared to use it'.

Otherwise you're better off just letting the guy take your stuff and you not be shot.

Yup - I can see all the bad people handing in their guns straight away - rapists, dealers, robbers - sheeesh: there would be hundreds of them lining up down the street to hand in their pieces.

Ridiculous statement.

Cloud bloody cuckoo land.

Back tracking, I know, but here are some figures, mostly from the ONS. 90% of rapists are partners, ex-partners, family members and other people known to the victim, not strangers (with any kind of weapon). There are an estimated 97000 rapes in England and Wales per year. In contrast the number of UK robberies involving a firearm in 2015 was less than 2000, slightly less than a third of the total number of firearms offences at 7000, and about 4% of the 50000 robberies per year.

rjsterry

Matthewfalle wrote:

rjsterry wrote:

Matthewfalle wrote:

rjsterry wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

Who here walks around the U.K. with a gun?

If not, why not?

Nope. Not even in a slightly scruffy bit of south London.

Clearly we're all oblivious to the ever-present danger. Last I heard the police were struggling to find firearms officers, but I'll concede it's not something I follow closely. Got any actual figures MF?

Let me have a dig around but you are entirely correct - they want/need loads but can't recruit.

The survey that BT posted suggests Met officers at least are some what ambivalent - "we'll carry them if we're told to but we're in no rush". You sure you haven't got a slightly skewed view?

In which way? Towards or against? Or another!

Towards the prevalence of gun crime. I can see that some military experience of NI would give you a very different take on things, but that is not exactly 'normal' even now.

pblakeney

Graeme_S wrote:

PBlakeney wrote:

My wife is coming home (hopefully) from yet another shift of full time community nursing.
She and her colleagues regularly have to treat junkies in their dens. It is not all nurse Gladys.

I didn’t say she’d never felt threatened. I said she’d never wished she could carry a firearm. She was doing home visits in a former mining area. Not everyone immediately wants to arm themselves because they’ve encountered an unpleasant or threatening situation.

I was pointing out that some people get threatened on a regular basis and that you don't have to be in the forces for that to happen. One of my wife's colleagues was threatened with a hot chip pan. No action was taken other than that nurse not having to go back. My wife does though, and needless to say she is not comfortable with that. Does rather conflict with the nurse Gladys impression that people have.
Not to say that arming nurses is the solution mind.

briantrumpet

PBlakeney wrote:

Graeme_S wrote:

PBlakeney wrote:

My wife is coming home (hopefully) from yet another shift of full time community nursing.
She and her colleagues regularly have to treat junkies in their dens. It is not all nurse Gladys.

I didn’t say she’d never felt threatened. I said she’d never wished she could carry a firearm. She was doing home visits in a former mining area. Not everyone immediately wants to arm themselves because they’ve encountered an unpleasant or threatening situation.

I was pointing out that some people get threatened on a regular basis and that you don't have to be in the forces for that to happen. One of my wife's colleagues was threatened with a hot chip pan. No action was taken other than that nurse not having to go back. My wife does though, and needless to say she is not comfortable with that. Does rather conflict with the nurse Gladys impression that people have.
Not to say that arming nurses is the solution mind.

Right, I'm here to take your blood pressure...

rjsterry

PBlakeney wrote:

Graeme_S wrote:

PBlakeney wrote:

My wife is coming home (hopefully) from yet another shift of full time community nursing.
She and her colleagues regularly have to treat junkies in their dens. It is not all nurse Gladys.

I didn’t say she’d never felt threatened. I said she’d never wished she could carry a firearm. She was doing home visits in a former mining area. Not everyone immediately wants to arm themselves because they’ve encountered an unpleasant or threatening situation.

I was pointing out that some people get threatened on a regular basis and that you don't have to be in the forces for that to happen. One of my wife's colleagues was threatened with a hot chip pan. No action was taken other than that nurse not having to go back. My wife does though, and needless to say she is not comfortable with that. Does rather conflict with the nurse Gladys impression that people have.
Not to say that arming nurses is the solution mind.

Bringing this back round to Las Vegas, it rather illustrates the point that violent people just grab whatever is to hand. If the country is knee deep in guns then one of them is more likely to get used.

pblakeney

rjsterry wrote:

Bringing this back round to Las Vegas, it rather illustrates the point that violent people just grab whatever is to hand. If the country is knee deep in guns then one of them is more likely to get used.

Yup! When I was a youngster it was considered quite normal to teach people how to make improvised weapons. (Hang over from the war and National service?). I know how to make a very effective weapon from a newspaper for example.
To explain a fully automatic machine gun purely as a means of defence seems to be pushing the boundary into another stratosphere. Ban on the law abiding public having guns while the police have guns for the non-compliant seems the best compromise. And any solution will be a compromise.