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Las Vegas

crispybug2crispybug2 Posts: 2,915
edited October 2017 in The cake stop
BBC is reporting that there over 50 dead following a mass shooting at a music festival on the main strip!

It's reported that the gunman is a 64 year old local resident who was shot dead

A large cache of arms was found in his room at the Mandalay Bay hotel

This is the largest mass shooting in American history and it's worth noting that the state of Nevada has some of least stringent gun laws in America
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  • fenixfenix Posts: 5,437
    "Lone Wolf" innit. Nothing anyone could do about it.....

    If it was a Muslim doing the shooting there'd be hell to pay.

    America needs to sort itself out - but can't with that clown in charge. Remember when Obama tried to bring in gun control ?
  • chris_basschris_bass Posts: 4,913
    i'm sure Americans will come out with more guns is the solution, not fewer. That is the usual line isn't it? Guns make everyone safer, right?
    www.conjunctivitis.com - a site for sore eyes
  • dinyulldinyull Posts: 2,979
    America is too far gone to fix regarding guns.
    No way back.
  • veronese68veronese68 Posts: 25,289 Lives Here
    The standard response from the NRA is that if the good people had guns they could have shot the assailant before so many people died. So, 20,000 people shooting at a hotel building? What could possibly go wrong.
    Sorry if that sounds trite but the whole thing is way beyond ridiculous. They believe so firmly in their right to bear arms they just cannot see reason. They are quite simply too pig ignorant. If anyone can give me a good reason that a private individual needs an automatic weapon I will eat my words, personally I can't see it.
    Desperately sad for all involved, but it was entirely preventable if there was any will to change.
  • We don't yet know if this was a legally owned weapon. Legally owned by anyone, that is, not just the shitbag who did the shooting.
  • cougiecougie Posts: 22,512
    Does it matter if it was legal or not ? splitting hairs really.
  • ProssPross Posts: 31,634
    We don't yet know if this was a legally owned weapon. Legally owned by anyone, that is, not just the shitbag who did the shooting.

    That kind of misses the point that such weapons and ammunition are readily available. Even allowing for the supposed 'constitutional right' to bear arms some states are way more lax in their controls than others. I assume there have been studies showing correlation between lax regulations and mass shootings, it would be interesting to see.
  • ProssPross Posts: 31,634
    Chris Bass wrote:
    i'm sure Americans will come out with more guns is the solution, not fewer. That is the usual line isn't it? Guns make everyone safer, right?

    From memory Trump's defence last time was to come out shouting about how the lack of guns in the UK left us vulnerable to terrorist attacks even though far more people die in shootings in the US than terrorism in the US and Europe put together (even with the numerous attacks in the last 18 months).
  • Pross wrote:
    We don't yet know if this was a legally owned weapon. Legally owned by anyone, that is, not just the shitbag who did the shooting.

    That kind of misses the point that such weapons and ammunition are readily available. Even allowing for the supposed 'constitutional right' to bear arms some states are way more lax in their controls than others. I assume there have been studies showing correlation between lax regulations and mass shootings, it would be interesting to see.

    Are they? That depends on what sort of weapon it was.
  • crispybug2crispybug2 Posts: 2,915
    Genuine tweet on NRA twitter :-

    "So predictable, without the facts the left is assing up against #nra and blaming guns for the Las Vegas shootings "

    Honestly words f*cking fail me!
  • rolf_frolf_f Posts: 16,015
    crispybug2 wrote:
    This is the largest mass shooting in American history and it's worth noting that the state of Nevada has some of least stringent gun laws in America

    Clearly still too stringent.
    Faster than a tent.......
  • chris_basschris_bass Posts: 4,913
    crispybug2 wrote:
    Genuine tweet on NRA twitter :-

    "So predictable, without the facts the left is assing up against #nra and blaming guns for the Las Vegas shootings "

    Honestly words f*cking fail me!

    I can't say i'm hugely surprised, i'm sure Trump will come out with something similar soon enough.

    He has already offered his warmest sympathies, whatever that means?!
    www.conjunctivitis.com - a site for sore eyes
  • They're more readily available. A former work colleague used to shoot stuff with a Florida based friend he used to visit a lot. Each time he'd photograph a table containing the guns they were playing with. Serious firepower! He was a close protection specialist I believe so had a concealed weapon license anyway. Some of those guns were work related apparently but others were not

    There's other things you can get that over here are banned. Shotgun rounds that fire out special projectiles. From turning the shotgun into a flamethrower to two linked ball bearings that spin around and can cut through a fence post or leg. Plus loads of other exotics.

    Americans really can get some interesting weaponry. The shotgun pellets are available mail order from shooting and hunting magazine ads BTW.

    Texas and Nevada are pretty lax states wrt guns. Others are more strict. It's a lottery really. The same work colleague was in Texas for business and went into a restaurant in town / city. The cloakroom wasn't just for coats but also cowboy hats, spurs, shotguns, rifles and handguns. He got asked for his guns but n didn't have any obviously. The lass behind the counter seemed surprised. Seems most in that expensive restaurant had handguns to check in, many had rifles as well. The spurs thing made me laugh. Apparently he saw men getting out of big trucks in an urban location wearing spurs. I think he said the spurs were blunt so they didn't cut things up.

    I have never been to Texas but quite a few I've worked with in the past have. I've spoken to enough native Texans in the past to believe more than half the stories my colleagues told me. They're nuts by UK standards!

    Nevada natives I can fully believe are almost as bad.

    My family partly came from Michigan, they all seemed fairly normal. I think it's the southern states, mid western and western states that are worst.
  • crispybug2 wrote:
    Genuine tweet on NRA twitter :-

    "So predictable, without the facts the left is assing up against #nra and blaming guns for the Las Vegas shootings "

    Honestly words f*cking fail me!

    No, the NRA are still silent. Once it was proved that the gun was not held legally, they will come out and say that the gun control laws are already strict enough.

    That's just a supporter (who yesterday was having a go at the Puerto Rico mayor and the NFL).
  • ProssPross Posts: 31,634
    Pross wrote:
    We don't yet know if this was a legally owned weapon. Legally owned by anyone, that is, not just the shitbag who did the shooting.

    That kind of misses the point that such weapons and ammunition are readily available. Even allowing for the supposed 'constitutional right' to bear arms some states are way more lax in their controls than others. I assume there have been studies showing correlation between lax regulations and mass shootings, it would be interesting to see.

    Are they? That depends on what sort of weapon it was.

    Not really, about the only restriction on weapon type under Nevada laws as far as I understand it is a minimum length of a barrel or overall weapon. Even machine guns are allowed subject to the Federal law which seems to be nothing manufactured after 1986. Pretty much any Nevada resident with Nevada ID can just walk into a gun store and buy any legal weapon subject to a very cursory check that they are not ineligible which amounts to being legally in the country and not being a criminal (to simplify slightly).
  • Pross wrote:
    We don't yet know if this was a legally owned weapon. Legally owned by anyone, that is, not just the shitbag who did the shooting.

    That kind of misses the point that such weapons and ammunition are readily available. Even allowing for the supposed 'constitutional right' to bear arms some states are way more lax in their controls than others. I assume there have been studies showing correlation between lax regulations and mass shootings, it would be interesting to see.

    Just compare USA with Canada and you have your answer.
  • dinyulldinyull Posts: 2,979
    They're more readily available. A former work colleague used to shoot stuff with a Florida based friend he used to visit a lot. Each time he'd photograph a table containing the guns they were playing with. Serious firepower! He was a close protection specialist I believe so had a concealed weapon license anyway. Some of those guns were work related apparently but others were not

    There's other things you can get that over here are banned. Shotgun rounds that fire out special projectiles. From turning the shotgun into a flamethrower to two linked ball bearings that spin around and can cut through a fence post or leg. Plus loads of other exotics.

    Americans really can get some interesting weaponry. The shotgun pellets are available mail order from shooting and hunting magazine ads BTW.

    Texas and Nevada are pretty lax states wrt guns. Others are more strict. It's a lottery really. The same work colleague was in Texas for business and went into a restaurant in town / city. The cloakroom wasn't just for coats but also cowboy hats, spurs, shotguns, rifles and handguns. He got asked for his guns but n didn't have any obviously. The lass behind the counter seemed surprised. Seems most in that expensive restaurant had handguns to check in, many had rifles as well. The spurs thing made me laugh. Apparently he saw men getting out of big trucks in an urban location wearing spurs. I think he said the spurs were blunt so they didn't cut things up.

    I have never been to Texas but quite a few I've worked with in the past have. I've spoken to enough native Texans in the past to believe more than half the stories my colleagues told me. They're nuts by UK standards!

    Nevada natives I can fully believe are almost as bad.

    My family partly came from Michigan, they all seemed fairly normal. I think it's the southern states, mid western and western states that are worst.

    Dad worked in Galveston a few years back. Texas is f*cking mental.

    Sent me a pic from a supermarket of someone carrying an assault rifle like it was nothing.

    The locals he worked with used to take him to a backstreet bar when they'd regularly be shooting beer cans/bottles or vermin in the beer garden.

    Was warned not to go into certain areas at certain times...apparently because the latinos usually get into arguments when they've had too much tequila and they're usually settled with the gun.
  • mfinmfin Posts: 6,726
    Islamic State now claiming credit for it and saying this man was a recent convert to islam
  • rick_chaseyrick_chasey Posts: 60,998 Lives Here
    https://t.co/L79J6iLuqU worthwhile being fairly choice about what source you use...
  • mfinmfin Posts: 6,726
    https://t.co/L79J6iLuqU worthwhile being fairly choice about what source you use...

    Source I was quoting was BBC News 24
  • rick_chaseyrick_chasey Posts: 60,998 Lives Here
    mfin wrote:
    https://t.co/L79J6iLuqU worthwhile being fairly choice about what source you use...

    Source I was quoting was BBC News 24

    Sure but I'm fairly sure ISIS would also claim the monster sh!t my colleague did this morning if they knew the damage it was causing.

    Doesn't mean it has anything to do with it.
  • ProssPross Posts: 31,634
    mfin wrote:
    https://t.co/L79J6iLuqU worthwhile being fairly choice about what source you use...

    Source I was quoting was BBC News 24

    Sure but I'm fairly sure ISIS would also claim the monster sh!t my colleague did this morning if they knew the damage it was causing.

    Doesn't mean it has anything to do with it.

    Trump will seize on it as fact though (the shooting, not the monster censored although he might blame them for that too).
  • One colleague went hunting Texas style. It v was the swamp area so boat, beer, rifle each plus spare and a shed load if ammo. Not much was hit but a lot of cans and bottles thrown overboard. The only supply bigger than the ammo pile was the cooler that took up most of the boat! Madness really.

    Or the vermin shoot. Factory gets a vermin problem it's easily sorted. Beer and pump action shotguns. One line and shoot anything that moves in front of you. Only don't get ahead of the line! The shoot is likely after a BBQ and a load of cans. It sounded like ppl weren't seeing things straight by the time of the vermin clearance.

    Skunk clearance? Big censored shotgun / in a calibre (is that right word?) that's not allowed in the UK. Shock and awe. It's easier to clean up skunk blood / residue than skunk spray. Besides it's likely not to be recognizable as an animal after a few quick shots in confined quarters.

    No, nothing mental about Texans and guns at all. I've heard Nevada ppl aren't much better but never spoken to any to find out.
  • mfinmfin Posts: 6,726
    mfin wrote:
    https://t.co/L79J6iLuqU worthwhile being fairly choice about what source you use...

    Source I was quoting was BBC News 24

    Sure but I'm fairly sure ISIS would also claim the monster sh!t my colleague did this morning if they knew the damage it was causing.

    Doesn't mean it has anything to do with it.

    Well, in your mind perhaps, but they don't have a record of claiming everything.

    I agree in this case it seems odd and unlikely purely by the age and ethnicity of the perpetrator not fitting the normal pattern at first glance.
  • rick_chaseyrick_chasey Posts: 60,998 Lives Here
    Jason Burke, the Guardian’s Africa correspondent and author of The New Threat, a work on the Islamic State and other terrorist groups, writes that the public and the press need to be skeptical of claims that the Las Vegas shooter converted to Islam or was somehow linked to an international group.

    The Isis claim of responsibility for Las Vegas shooting appears to have been first published on Amaq news agency, an ISIS communication channel which has seen many previous such statements. We need to be very prudent assessing this one. The profile of the attacker alone urges extreme caution, and US officials have already said they have no evidence of any link to the group.

    Until around a year ago, Isis claims tended to be reliable. The group used carefully calibrated wording to indicate its degree of involvement of the group, and, if there was some exaggeration, there was limited outright fabrication. The group often provided proof of its involvement through videos recorded by attackers before an incident.

    Isis also started quoting “security sources”, which are thought by security officials to be close friends or relatives, contacted by the group, who confirmed an individual’s motivation and loyalties. Sometimes of these appear to have been “interviewed” by Isis after an attack to back up its claim.
    But in recent months Isis, facing military defeat and the loss of territories, have repeatedly made claims which have been shown to utterly unjustified. Isis claimed a role in the Westminster attacks in March – and an exhaustive investigation found no link. The group claimed a shooting in a Philippines casino in June, where the attacker was an gambler with large debts and a drinking problem. There are many other examples.
    This claim today describes the shooter in Las Vegas as a “soldier” of the Isis, who converted to Islam several months ago. This is theoretically possible of course but seems far fetched, not least because he committed suicide.

    Islamic militant groups launch “fedayeen” actions in which death is a near certainty, thus becoming “martyrs”, but they do not ever take their own lives in this way, which is seen as a terrible sin.
    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/liv ... st-updates
  • dinyulldinyull Posts: 2,979
    Do we think that this could be the incident that finally makes them take gun control seriously?

    If (at least) 500 injured in the space of 5-10 mins doesn't do it I don't think anything will.
  • rick_chaseyrick_chasey Posts: 60,998 Lives Here
    Dinyull wrote:
    Do we think that this could be the incident that finally makes them take gun control seriously?

    If (at least) 500 injured in the space of 5-10 mins doesn't do it I don't think anything will.

    Sandy Hook didn't do sh!t.

    Why would this be different?
  • dinyulldinyull Posts: 2,979
    The larger number.

    If 50+ are dead and another 500 are injured you can bet that there are many more to die yet.

    I know the affect of children plays it's part, but this is totally unprecedented.

    I know nothing happened after florida and san bernardino, but this can't be laid at the door of ISIS like those were/are over there.
  • rick_chaseyrick_chasey Posts: 60,998 Lives Here
    FWIW these incidents normally result in an increase in gun sales, so that says something of the mentality.
  • fenixfenix Posts: 5,437
    Can't see anything moving the gun lobby in the states now. Especially with Trump in the White House - he's not capable or eloquent enough to get anything big through.
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