Las Vegas

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  • Pross
    Pross Posts: 40,589
    Dinyull wrote:
    Do we think that this could be the incident that finally makes them take gun control seriously?

    No, there's too many politicians who would lose their core vote.
  • veronese68
    veronese68 Posts: 27,331
    Rick Chasey wrote:
    FWIW these incidents normally result in an increase in gun sales, so that says something of the mentality.
    The Mrs was just reading that share prices in the biggest two US gun manufacturers have already gone up as a result of this.
    Kinesis Pro6
    Marin Nail Trail
    Cotic Solaris
  • briantrumpet
    briantrumpet Posts: 17,932
    Pross wrote:
    Dinyull wrote:
    Do we think that this could be the incident that finally makes them take gun control seriously?

    No, there's too many politicians who would lose their core vote.
    ...and their NRA funding.

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/sp ... -congress/
    https://www.facebook.com/unanglaisendiois
  • pblakeney
    pblakeney Posts: 25,805
    Dinyull wrote:
    Do we think that this could be the incident that finally makes them take gun control seriously?

    If (at least) 500 injured in the space of 5-10 mins doesn't do it I don't think anything will.
    No. It won’t.
    The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
    I am not sure. You have no chance.
    Veronese68 wrote:
    PB is the most sensible person on here.
  • rolf_f
    rolf_f Posts: 16,015
    Trump needs to clamp down on white men in retirement villages with guns and no criminal record before it's too late.
    Faster than a tent.......
  • kingstongraham
    kingstongraham Posts: 26,270
    Dinyull wrote:
    Do we think that this could be the incident that finally makes them take gun control seriously?

    If (at least) 500 injured in the space of 5-10 mins doesn't do it I don't think anything will.

    Whitehouse: now is not the time to talk about gun control.

    There's your answer. Radio 4 tonight played what Obama said after the last one. That was a real heartfelt speech, and still achieved nothing.
  • Pross
    Pross Posts: 40,589
    Terrifying statistic just quoted on BBC. Last year four times more people were killed by guns in the US than all the fatalities among coalition forces over 16 years in Iraq and Afghanistan combined. Or to put in another way, 10 times the amount who died in the Twin Towers.
  • briantrumpet
    briantrumpet Posts: 17,932
    Pross wrote:
    Terrifying statistic just quoted on BBC. Last year four times more people were killed by guns in the US than all the fatalities among coalition forces over 16 years in Iraq and Afghanistan combined. Or to put in another way, 10 times the amount who died in the Twin Towers.
    Any gun statistics from the US are terrifying - such as more people were killed by police shootings in the first 35 days of 2016 than have been killed by police shootings in the UK in 35 years.
    https://www.facebook.com/unanglaisendiois
  • tailwindhome
    tailwindhome Posts: 18,941
    KingstonGraham wrote:
    Whitehouse: now is not the time to talk about gun control.

    They're right.
    It's too late
    “New York has the haircuts, London has the trousers, but Belfast has the reason!
  • rolf_f
    rolf_f Posts: 16,015
    Of course, the NRA response to this is that you need a "good guy with a gun" to stop this. Apart from the fact that the good guy with a gun has apparently yet to stop any mass shooting, this time the shooting appears to have been carried out by a "good guy with a gun".

    In the mean time, Trump is killing far more people than Stephen Paddock did by not giving a sh1t about anyone in Puerto Rico.
    Faster than a tent.......
  • veronese68
    veronese68 Posts: 27,331
    Rolf F wrote:
    In the mean time, Trump is killing far more people than Stephen Paddock did by not giving a sh1t about anyone in Puerto Rico.
    Of course he doesn't, they can't vote for him.
    Kinesis Pro6
    Marin Nail Trail
    Cotic Solaris
  • dinyull
    dinyull Posts: 2,979
    Pross wrote:
    Terrifying statistic just quoted on BBC. Last year four times more people were killed by guns in the US than all the fatalities among coalition forces over 16 years in Iraq and Afghanistan combined. Or to put in another way, 10 times the amount who died in the Twin Towers.

    273 mass shootings in the first 275 days this year.
  • kingstongraham
    kingstongraham Posts: 26,270
    http://www.theonion.com/article/no-way- ... y-ha-57086
  • mamba80
    mamba80 Posts: 5,032
    Dinyull wrote:
    Pross wrote:
    Terrifying statistic just quoted on BBC. Last year four times more people were killed by guns in the US than all the fatalities among coalition forces over 16 years in Iraq and Afghanistan combined. Or to put in another way, 10 times the amount who died in the Twin Towers.

    273 mass shootings in the first 275 days this year.

    With millions of weapons and 50 individual states, each with their own laws and geography, i dont see how you can get rid of even the semi automatic weapons - modified - this guy was using, its been illegal to have an automatic weapon since the mid 80s, with big fines and or imprisonment.
    People go one about the size of clips etc etc but instead of killing 58, he might have only killed 38 wow.

    Given that, perhaps more needs to be done on what makes people behave in this manner? there seems to be a complete lack of mental health care in the states, couple this with an equally poor education system.
  • Ben6899
    Ben6899 Posts: 9,686
    mamba80 wrote:
    With millions of weapons and 50 individual states... there seems to be a complete lack of mental health care in the states, couple this with an equally poor education system.

    Economy aside, the US is Third World when compared to most of Europe.
    Ben

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  • fenix
    fenix Posts: 5,437
    The Gun Lobby has screwed America - I'm not sure if there's any way back for them :

    https://www.gq.com/story/inside-federal ... -many-guns
  • fenix
    fenix Posts: 5,437
    The Gun Lobby has screwed America - I'm not sure if there's any way back for them :

    https://www.gq.com/story/inside-federal ... -many-guns
  • twist83
    twist83 Posts: 761
    Interesting as the general consensus seems to be that any american which shoots or owns firearms is a lunatic or some irresponsible individual with no concept of safety. Just not true.

    I have shot since I was 7 years old and have held a Firearms Cert and Shotgun Cert since I was able to. My club(s) over the years have twinned with numerous clubs in America. We often go over there to shoot. As they do have access to firearms that have been subsequently banned over time in the UK.

    Firearms deaths and gun crime have risen significantly since the Semi Auto Rifle ban and the Pistol ban in the UK. However you can still purchase a Semi Auto Shotgun which will hold around 12-14 rounds and also have Solid Slug ammunition. I have one of these and it would do far more damage than a pistol. So the UK laws are non-nonsensical and born out of knee jerk reaction.

    America however is a very different problem. Having spoken to numerous friends in the US who are keen shooters from Kentucky, Texas, Florida. They all have said they would welcome sensible restrictions and checks etc on Firearms if it means helping to avoid this. However a ban never will happen and would never work.

    A valid point someone else mentioned was mental health. It is a problem and that should be addressed. For every one nutter there are thousands (or millions) in the states who do not go on killing sprees. A gun is only useful if someone picks it up and makes the decision to squeeze the trigger.

    The Dunblane masscacre. He should have had his FAC revoked numerous times. But did not. That could have been avoided.
  • nickice
    nickice Posts: 2,439
    Dinyull wrote:
    Pross wrote:
    Terrifying statistic just quoted on BBC. Last year four times more people were killed by guns in the US than all the fatalities among coalition forces over 16 years in Iraq and Afghanistan combined. Or to put in another way, 10 times the amount who died in the Twin Towers.

    273 mass shootings in the first 275 days this year.


    What do people understand by mass shootings? Apparently these stats are based on two or more people being shot (and I think it includes gang violence). I'm not saying that's not bad but when we think of mass shootings, we think of seemingly random acts of violence perpetrated against large groups. I don't think those stats reflect that.
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 72,738
    nickice wrote:
    Dinyull wrote:
    Pross wrote:
    Terrifying statistic just quoted on BBC. Last year four times more people were killed by guns in the US than all the fatalities among coalition forces over 16 years in Iraq and Afghanistan combined. Or to put in another way, 10 times the amount who died in the Twin Towers.

    273 mass shootings in the first 275 days this year.


    What do people understand by mass shootings? Apparently these stats are based on two or more people being shot (and I think it includes gang violence). I'm not saying that's not bad but when we think of mass shootings, we think of seemingly random acts of violence perpetrated against large groups. I don't think those stats reflect that.

    IIRC mass shooting means 4+
    _
  • twist83
    twist83 Posts: 761
    The stats are generally milked to suit the scenario. As you mention a lot of the time this also includes Suicide via firearm as well I believe?
  • nickice
    nickice Posts: 2,439
    twist83 wrote:
    The stats are generally milked to suit the scenario. As you mention a lot of the time this also includes Suicide via firearm as well I believe?

    I've heard that, too. In theory, I'm in favour of gun control but it'll never work in the USA. There are too many guns and too many people who want to keep their guns that taking them off them would result in massive violence (and maybe even civil war). That's not even mentioning 3D printers and their potential to eventually produce cheap guns.
  • nickice
    nickice Posts: 2,439
    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/won ... ec2b92dbb1
  • twist83
    twist83 Posts: 761
    I think the Civil War thing is likely very true.

    As a shooter and as mentioned above. A whole host of Amercian Shooters would welcome and abide by restrictions and checks. I agree with this as well.

    It is a funny thing. I generally keep hidden the fact I own Firearms and shoot (target only) as a lot of people look upon me like a complete lunatic. The hoops you go through to get one in this country would make most people just give up. Along with the cost.
  • kingstongraham
    kingstongraham Posts: 26,270
    Rick Chasey wrote:
    nickice wrote:
    Dinyull wrote:
    Pross wrote:
    Terrifying statistic just quoted on BBC. Last year four times more people were killed by guns in the US than all the fatalities among coalition forces over 16 years in Iraq and Afghanistan combined. Or to put in another way, 10 times the amount who died in the Twin Towers.

    273 mass shootings in the first 275 days this year.


    What do people understand by mass shootings? Apparently these stats are based on two or more people being shot (and I think it includes gang violence). I'm not saying that's not bad but when we think of mass shootings, we think of seemingly random acts of violence perpetrated against large groups. I don't think those stats reflect that.

    IIRC mass shooting means 4+

    4 or more people shot or killed excluding the perpetrator.
  • kingstongraham
    kingstongraham Posts: 26,270
    twist83 wrote:
    The stats are generally milked to suit the scenario. As you mention a lot of the time this also includes Suicide via firearm as well I believe?

    Total deaths by guns will include suicide, but mass shootings will not.
  • dinyull
    dinyull Posts: 2,979
    Rick Chasey wrote:
    nickice wrote:
    Dinyull wrote:
    Pross wrote:
    Terrifying statistic just quoted on BBC. Last year four times more people were killed by guns in the US than all the fatalities among coalition forces over 16 years in Iraq and Afghanistan combined. Or to put in another way, 10 times the amount who died in the Twin Towers.

    273 mass shootings in the first 275 days this year.

    What do people understand by mass shootings? Apparently these stats are based on two or more people being shot (and I think it includes gang violence). I'm not saying that's not bad but when we think of mass shootings, we think of seemingly random acts of violence perpetrated against large groups. I don't think those stats reflect that.

    IIRC mass shooting means 4+

    Yes, 4.
  • twist83
    twist83 Posts: 761
    KingstonGraham wrote:
    twist83 wrote:
    The stats are generally milked to suit the scenario. As you mention a lot of the time this also includes Suicide via firearm as well I believe?

    Total deaths by guns will include suicide, but mass shootings will not.

    Agreed but a lot of the time when the quote Stats they do include these as well to make the numbers look worse. Not that they really need it.
  • kingstongraham
    kingstongraham Posts: 26,270
    twist83 wrote:
    KingstonGraham wrote:
    twist83 wrote:
    The stats are generally milked to suit the scenario. As you mention a lot of the time this also includes Suicide via firearm as well I believe?

    Total deaths by guns will include suicide, but mass shootings will not.

    Agreed but a lot of the time when the quote Stats they do include these as well to make the numbers look worse. Not that they really need it.

    http://www.gunviolencearchive.org/

    22,000 annual suicides not included in their daily summary - 11,716 deaths so far this year. 273 mass shootings.
  • twist83
    twist83 Posts: 761
    Interesting Website. From clicking on a couple of links though. It seems a lot of it is Gang violence and likely illegally held firearms. But still a substantial amount of deaths.

    I wonder how many it compares to Smoking, drinking and obesity related deaths.

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