Dura Ace 9100 noisy and poor shifting
I've installed a complete new mechanical 9100 groupset on a Giant Defy and just can't get drivetrain to run smooth.
Noisy during normal cycling (i.e. not shifting), especially when on the large front ring, gets noisier as the chain moves towards the large sprockets. On the small chain ring, the drivetrain is quieter, but still not great and shifting is still bad.
Shifting is always slow and noisy.
Set up as per install guide, chain length set whilst on large sprocket and ring, + 2 links.
I originally used the dura ace chain, but have now swapped to a KMX X11 and it's no better or worse.
Rear deraileur and hanger checked numerous times for straightness.
Careful inspection shows that the chain isn't rubbing on the front deraileur, and the trim poistions of the levers are working as inteneded (i.e. as you approach cross-chaining situations).
B-screw has been adjusted and doesn't make much difference to shifting.
Cassette lock ring properly tigntened.
QR nice and tight.
Cables repalced and correct outer casing used for rear deraileur loop, but no improvement.
I should also say this frame has had Ultegra 6700 on preivously, and that drivetrain worked great. I'm just wondering if others are seeing the same things, or have any ideas.
It all sounds like the hanger or deraileur is bent, but honestly it's perfectly true.
Ideas welcome!
Noisy during normal cycling (i.e. not shifting), especially when on the large front ring, gets noisier as the chain moves towards the large sprockets. On the small chain ring, the drivetrain is quieter, but still not great and shifting is still bad.
Shifting is always slow and noisy.
Set up as per install guide, chain length set whilst on large sprocket and ring, + 2 links.
I originally used the dura ace chain, but have now swapped to a KMX X11 and it's no better or worse.
Rear deraileur and hanger checked numerous times for straightness.
Careful inspection shows that the chain isn't rubbing on the front deraileur, and the trim poistions of the levers are working as inteneded (i.e. as you approach cross-chaining situations).
B-screw has been adjusted and doesn't make much difference to shifting.
Cassette lock ring properly tigntened.
QR nice and tight.
Cables repalced and correct outer casing used for rear deraileur loop, but no improvement.
I should also say this frame has had Ultegra 6700 on preivously, and that drivetrain worked great. I'm just wondering if others are seeing the same things, or have any ideas.
It all sounds like the hanger or deraileur is bent, but honestly it's perfectly true.
Ideas welcome!
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Comments
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Worn sprockets ?0
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You're sure that you've threaded the chain through the rear derailleur properly?
I think it might be a combination of two factors - one being that you were used to the sound of your old group, secondly that new groupsets can be a little noisy - they run in over the first few hundred miles. Doesn't explain the poor shifting though.0 -
I never had bought the idea that bike stuff needs to be 'run in'.... personally, I'd be on Ebay for a cheap replacement hanger and start all over again.
I thought 9100 was supposed to be the sweetest ever incarnation of a mechanical groupset?0 -
The other thing that occurred, hopefully not a stupid question, are the wheels 11 speed compatible?
I'm not sure if it's possible to get an 11 speed cassette on a 10 speed frerhub, but if you had I'd expect it to be noisy and with poor shifting as it'd probably wobble about a bit...0 -
I have been running 9100 mechanical on my Bianchi now for 6 months and its been perfect throughout. I initially had some chain rub on the front mech but I sorted this. Rear shifting is the best I've experienced and is a simple one finger flick.
Is the chain line OK? Do you need to add/remove a spacer on the drive side? If its slow to shift is there too much/too little cable tension in the rear mech.0 -
How did you check the hanger for straightness?Ben
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Thanks for the comments, here are some replies:
Sprocket is new (12-28) Dura Ace 9100.
- I double checked I have the chain threaded correctly
Funnily enough that would cause the exact symptoms I have.
- I've ridden 600+ miles and it's not getting any better.
- Wheels are 11 speed Dura Ace 9000-C24s so no spacer required (and cassette is nice and tight).
- I checked the alignment with a Park DAG 2.2 I even replaced the hanger and then checked it again. I guess the deraileur could still be bent (as opposed to the hanger) but seems unlikely as it was new.
I am beginning to suspect that chain may be too short for some reason, as the deraileur will be most stretched on the large ring and sprocket, which is where the noise is worst.0 -
Stiff link ? Watch the chain going through the mech to see ? Possibly unlikely if its the second chain you've had.0
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It's strange as if I rotate the crank backwards the chain seems to get caught on the sprocket slightly, but I suspect this is a feature of 9100 as rotating in the normal direction it doesn't catch.Fenix wrote:Stiff link ? Watch the chain going through the mech to see ? Possibly unlikely if its the second chain you've had.0 -
champson wrote:
It's strange as if I rotate the crank backwards the chain seems to get caught on the sprocket slightly, but I suspect this is a feature of 9100 as rotating in the normal direction it doesn't catch.Fenix wrote:Stiff link ? Watch the chain going through the mech to see ? Possibly unlikely if its the second chain you've had.
Have you used a split link or pin to join the chain ? Is the split link on properly or has the pin been pushed in too far so when its chopped you have a bit sticking out on the inside? Does it jump when rotating the crank backwards in any gear?
If the chain is too short this will be obvious when in big/big and even then you would only expect noise at the very top of the cassette when in the big ring.0 -
It's a KMC chain link and it's on properly. I should mention that the noise is constant throughout the rotation of the chain, so I think it's something to do with the deraileur.PaulMon wrote:champson wrote:
It's strange as if I rotate the crank backwards the chain seems to get caught on the sprocket slightly, but I suspect this is a feature of 9100 as rotating in the normal direction it doesn't catch.Fenix wrote:Stiff link ? Watch the chain going through the mech to see ? Possibly unlikely if its the second chain you've had.
Have you used a split link or pin to join the chain ? Is the split link on properly or has the pin been pushed in too far so when its chopped you have a bit sticking out on the inside? Does it jump when rotating the crank backwards in any gear?
If the chain is too short this will be obvious when in big/big and even then you would only expect noise at the very top of the cassette when in the big ring.0 -
Pictures might shed some light...can you upload some?
It's not a 10spd chain I'm guessing...
PP0 -
For this reason, when joining a chain with a pin I always drive the pin through from the inside so that the end you break off is on the outside...PaulMon wrote:Have you used a split link or pin to join the chain ? Is the split link on properly or has the pin been pushed in too far so when its chopped you have a bit sticking out on the inside? Does it jump when rotating the crank backwards in any gear?0 -
Good idea I will try and upload some. Chain is verified 11 speedPilot Pete wrote:Pictures might shed some light...can you upload some?
It's not a 10spd chain I'm guessing...
PP 0 -
I have just taken my bike in to the LBS as I couldn't get my dura ace 9100 front mech to stop rubbing on the chain in one particular sprocket. It rubbed on the outside of the chain and the when I did the trim it rubbed on the inside. However it was pointed out on the inside of the front mech there is a rubber/ plastic guard and it is there for this situation.
Is the noise from this.0 -
champson wrote:I am beginning to suspect that chain may be too short for some reason, as the deraileur will be most stretched on the large ring and sprocket, which is where the noise is worst.
Don't cross chain. Many setups will be noisy when cross chaining since that's when the chain line is at its most extreme.
How does it sound mid cassette in the big ring at the front?
KMC chains are definitely noisier than Shimano chains FYI.0 -
Ryan_W wrote:champson wrote:I am beginning to suspect that chain may be too short for some reason, as the deraileur will be most stretched on the large ring and sprocket, which is where the noise is worst.
Don't cross chain. Many setups will be noisy when cross chaining since that's when the chain line is at its most extreme.
How does it sound mid cassette in the big ring at the front?
KMC chains are definitely noisier than Shimano chains FYI.
The odd thing is that it is quieter when cross chaining on the small ring and small sprocket compared to the large ring and mid sprocket. I didn't notice too much difference when I went from the shimano chain to the KMC X11 to be honest. Maybe that's because I have something else wrong and it drowns out any other slight difference between the two.0 -
Put up a pic of it in big/big and small/small.
Are you sure you're not running a 10sp chain on an 11sp setup?!
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Interesting, as I find on the work stand that there is no chain rub at all when using the trims as intended.Webboo wrote:I have just taken my bike in to the LBS as I couldn't get my dura ace 9100 front mech to stop rubbing on the chain in one particular sprocket. It rubbed on the outside of the chain and the when I did the trim it rubbed on the inside. However it was pointed out on the inside of the front mech there is a rubber/ plastic guard and it is there for this situation.
Is the noise from this.
My noise is much more metal on metal, as if it hasn’t any lube on the chain.0 -
I have uploaded some pics. I also had a better video but seem to have pressed the wrong button. Comments welcome!
Sorry bike is a bit dusty, went out for a ride instead of trying to fix gears
Pics on dropbox:
https://www.dropbox.com/sh/7gfgj5o2d9dp ... OVZ5a?dl=0
Clicking when pedaling backwards, and then showing it works OK going forwards:
https://vimeo.com/236787430
Better close up video of above:
https://vimeo.com/2367871110 -
Your chains too short and looks like your hangers bent.
Small / small should look like this:
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Ryan_W wrote:Your chains too short and looks like your hangers bent.
Small / small should look like this:
Thanks Ryan, could it be that the derailleur is bent rather than the hanger? I've checked a few times with the alignment tool.
I followed the shimano instructions for chain length, i.e. chain on big sprocket and chain ring then add 2 links. I'll check this again tomorrow. I could add another 2 links if I add a another chain link I guess.0 -
It's certainly possible to bend the derailleur rather than the hanger. When I was just starting out I managed to bend my rear derailleur after fixing a puncture (put the wheel back in and pedalled off without the chain being in the right place....) the hanger was fine.
No idea if that's what you've done here though.
Given that you can get it into the big/big combination and some slack is still visibly being taken by the derailleur, I don't think the problem is that the chain is too short.
If the chain's too short it'd become very obvious when you try and get into big/big....0 -
Unless the mech cage is at its absolute limit of forward extension when in big-big then it looks OK to me. It's a little hard to tell whether the mech cage is bent as the photos do vary in viewing angle. I think DA9100 is slightly more noisy in operation than 9000 so it may be that you are just a bit conscious of this?FFS! Harden up and grow a pair0
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Svetty wrote:Unless the mech cage is at its absolute limit of forward extension when in big-big then it looks OK to me. It's a little hard to tell whether the mech cage is bent as the photos do vary in viewing angle. I think DA9100 is slightly more noisy in operation than 9000 so it may be that you are just a bit conscious of this?
Maybe it is a bit noisy inherently, I am also wondering if it something to do with the lube I am using (ProGold Chain Lube):
https://www.evanscycles.com/progold-pro ... e-EV163361
I've used this for years on 105 and Ultegra equipped bikes, and it's been great. However, it is quite thin and I'm wondering if 9100 neeeds something thicker for some reason.0 -
This is more than noise though, right? The shifting is poor as well.
I think the mech or hanger is bent. Or both are. That's quite obvious from the photos taken at the rear of the bike - although I concede there could be some parallax error here.
If it's just noisy, I wouldn't worry. But poor shifting points to an underlying problem.Ben
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Try the Shimano chain again and check it is on the right way round (with the writing on the outer face).0
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I have checked the hanger alignment so many times, and also bear in mind that the Ultegra 6700 worked fine on the same bike. Unfortunately I have sold the Ultegra already so can't put it back on to prove it.
If you look at the following picture I found on the web, the derailleur bracket seems to be at a different angle to mine, not sure if that could mean anything.
https://images.velochannel.com/2016/07/ ... w-road.jpg0
