Dura Ace 9100 noisy and poor shifting

24

Comments

  • Ben6899
    Ben6899 Posts: 9,686
    The thing is when you check hanger alignment with a tool, it takes the derailleur out of the equation. So if the derailleur cage is skew, this check won't identify that. Well it will, but only by deduction.

    It does look to me like the derailleur cage is at an angle to the vertical plane.
    Ben

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  • captain_tiara
    captain_tiara Posts: 106
    A tight cable run will cause issues. Normally results in inconsistent shifting. I'd make that loop to the rear mech longer.
  • champson
    champson Posts: 57
    Captain Tiara wrote:
    A tight cable run will cause issues. Normally results in inconsistent shifting. I'd make that loop to the rear mech longer.
    That has been at the back of my mind. The RD loop is actually a special Shimano part that is designed for the 9100 (OT-RS900) and is 24cm long. I do think that my cables at the bars are not long enough so next I will replace with some longer sections to create a more gentle bend.
  • champson
    champson Posts: 57
    Ben6899 wrote:
    The thing is when you check hanger alignment with a tool, it takes the derailleur out of the equation. So if the derailleur cage is skew, this check won't identify that. Well it will, but only by deduction.

    It does look to me like the derailleur cage is at an angle to the vertical plane.
    I'm concious of this, and do suspect it might not be true. Seems unlikely it was bent from new though and the shifting has never been good.
    I have tried applying pressure on the derailleur whilst someone else was turning the pedals and changing gear, but I could only make it worse not better.
  • timothyw
    timothyw Posts: 2,482
    Did the derailleur come in bubble wrap or in the retail box?

    I'd have thought damage would be fairly apparent if it was in the box, but if bubble wrapped there's at least a slim chance that it might have been crushed at some point and so potentially bent.
  • champson
    champson Posts: 57
    TimothyW wrote:
    Did the derailleur come in bubble wrap or in the retail box?

    I'd have thought damage would be fairly apparent if it was in the box, but if bubble wrapped there's at least a slim chance that it might have been crushed at some point and so potentially bent.
    It was a non-retail purchase but it came in an individual carboard box and was well packaged.
  • turbo1191
    turbo1191 Posts: 501
    edited October 2017
    Watching with interest as I have a very similar problem :? . Everything seems fine on mine until i get to big ring on the front and the largest 3 cogs on the back - it all becomes a bit 'noisy'.. also on the same cog as you I have a very similar chain link problem..
  • timothyw
    timothyw Posts: 2,482
    turbo1191 wrote:
    Watching with interest as I have a very similar problem :? . Everything seems fine on mine until i get to big ring on the front and the largest 3 cogs on the back
    You are trimming the front derailleur right? Half press the left hand shifter, it'll move slightly over.

    Same deal when you're in the little ring. The trim is towards the bigger side of the cassette, both on the big and small ring with the new 11 speed groups.
  • turbo1191
    turbo1191 Posts: 501
    Yes. Trim is set up fine on the front. There is no chain rub on the front derailleur.. All the noise is coming from the back..
  • timothyw
    timothyw Posts: 2,482
    In which case the next thing to look at would be b screw adjustment (which would also cause the problem you're describing) but I'm imagining you've done that too.....
  • turbo1191
    turbo1191 Posts: 501
    Yip.. fairly stumped to be honest. I'll wait and see if the op manages to cure the problem!
  • trivial_poursuivant
    trivial_poursuivant Posts: 1,136
    I’d take the chain off and shift up and down the cassette to see how it aligns on each click. I usually if building set the high and low stops at this point.

    If they all seem good , put the chain back on and see how it runs through the front derailleur. Making sure it doesn’t touch in any gear combo (yes it is possible on 11sp) and just run through the gears while observing the whole system for noise or movement. Stuff like play in the BB if not pretensioned properly etc.
  • milemuncher1
    milemuncher1 Posts: 1,472
    Check the jockey wheels are not flapping about. A bit of ptfe tape around the threads, or thread lock compound should keep them tight. Check each link on the chain for twisting. I had a chain with a very slightly Pringled link in it, which was causing a similar problem to what you describe, I couldn’t see it clearly, until it really twisted, and caused a chain jam, on a climb, which was fun.
  • svetty
    svetty Posts: 1,904
    Milemuncher1 wrote:
    Check the jockey wheels are not flapping about. A bit of ptfe tape around the threads, or thread lock compound should keep them tight. Check each link on the chain for twisting. I had a chain with a very slightly Pringled link in it, which was causing a similar problem to what you describe, I couldn’t see it clearly, until it really twisted, and caused a chain jam, on a climb, which was fun.

    Some lateral movement is intended with jockey wheels.....
    FFS! Harden up and grow a pair :D
  • fenix
    fenix Posts: 5,437
    Certainly the top one. It's designed like that.
  • champson
    champson Posts: 57
    turbo1191 wrote:
    Yip.. fairly stumped to be honest. I'll wait and see if the op manages to cure the problem!
    Sorry, haven't had any luck at all! I've switched to my Winter bike now so will try and have another look at it on the workshop stand.
    One thing I did try is lengthening the chain with an extra link. It made no difference at all, so chain length is defo not the issue.
    It's put me off Shimano enough to go Campag on my current build project.
  • turbo1191
    turbo1191 Posts: 501
    It's infuriating . Our problems are almost identical. My rear mech isn't dura ace it's the new ultegra 8000 series. I've got a bike with tiagra on it and it's almost silent in comparison on the bigger rings at the back..
  • davidof
    davidof Posts: 3,146
    champson wrote:
    It's put me off Shimano enough to go Campag on my current build project.

    There's another thread on here with someone with similar kinds of issues with Campag.

    viewtopic.php?f=40004&t=13085990
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  • milemuncher1
    milemuncher1 Posts: 1,472
    Svetty wrote:
    Milemuncher1 wrote:
    Check the jockey wheels are not flapping about. A bit of ptfe tape around the threads, or thread lock compound should keep them tight. Check each link on the chain for twisting. I had a chain with a very slightly Pringled link in it, which was causing a similar problem to what you describe, I couldn’t see it clearly, until it really twisted, and caused a chain jam, on a climb, which was fun.

    Some lateral movement is intended with jockey wheels.....

    Not flapping about like a dogs dick in the wind though. They do work loose you know.............................................................................. ( is that enough dots)?
  • webboo
    webboo Posts: 6,087
    How long have you been studying the effects of the wind on dogs dicks. :)
  • dennisn
    dennisn Posts: 10,601
    I think the key problem in the OP's post are the first two words "I've installed...".
  • imposter2.0
    imposter2.0 Posts: 12,028
    Milemuncher1 wrote:

    Not flapping about like a dogs dick in the wind though. They do work loose you know.............................................................................. ( is that enough dots)?

    Never ever heard of jockey wheels 'working loose'. Ever. Do you have any examples of when this has happened?
  • Gixertrixter
    Gixertrixter Posts: 1
    I have this issue with my Dura Ace 9100 Di2. The shifting is fine but it is rediculously noisy. It seems putting a new chain on it seems to quiet it down for a bit and then it gets noisy again. I have swapped the hanger out and checked the chain line. I have put an Ultegra Di2 derailleur on and it is silent. I have sent the derailleur back to Canyon who have apparently sent it back to Shimano who have said it is fine. The mechanic at Canyon says he put it on his bike and it was fine. Next step is to send the whole bike back to Canyon.
  • trivial_poursuivant
    trivial_poursuivant Posts: 1,136
    Gixertrixter wrote:
    I have this issue with my Dura Ace 9100 Di2. The shifting is fine but it is rediculously noisy. It seems putting a new chain on it seems to quiet it down for a bit and then it gets noisy again. I have swapped the hanger out and checked the chain line. I have put an Ultegra Di2 derailleur on and it is silent. I have sent the derailleur back to Canyon who have apparently sent it back to Shimano who have said it is fine. The mechanic at Canyon says he put it on his bike and it was fine. Next step is to send the whole bike back to Canyon.

    If the Ultegra is quiet it disproves the bike is at fault. So sending it back will be an unnecessary expense especially since there is probably nothing wrong with it. What chain are you using and do you use a quick link to join the chain? How many miles were on the bike ? Could it be jockey wheel wear? They are only cheap plastic and gunk up wear pretty easily even on DA.
  • cougie
    cougie Posts: 22,512
    Imposter wrote:
    Milemuncher1 wrote:

    Not flapping about like a dogs dick in the wind though. They do work loose you know.............................................................................. ( is that enough dots)?

    Never ever heard of jockey wheels 'working loose'. Ever. Do you have any examples of when this has happened?

    My mate's rear mech fell apart. Jockey wheels flying everywhere. So yes they can work loose but it's the only one I've seen it happen to.
  • cld531c
    cld531c Posts: 517
    cougie wrote:
    Imposter wrote:
    Milemuncher1 wrote:

    Not flapping about like a dogs dick in the wind though. They do work loose you know.............................................................................. ( is that enough dots)?

    Never ever heard of jockey wheels 'working loose'. Ever. Do you have any examples of when this has happened?



    It is apparently common if you keep your cadence below 30!
  • Semantik
    Semantik Posts: 537
    https://www.dropbox.com/sh/7gfgj5o2d9dp ... G_8601.JPG

    Guess OP gone AWOL now but personally I would add 3+ more links to that fecker then try again.
  • champson
    champson Posts: 57
    I am still hanging around :D I did try adding some more links, but alas no differernce. The bike is off the road for winter currently so I plan to strip it down again and rebuild. I'll post an update when I get some free time to do it. Riding my winter bike has reminded me how smooth Shimano shifting should be (6700 Ultegra in this case).
  • Velotechnics
    Velotechnics Posts: 1
    Gixertrixter wrote:
    I have this issue with my Dura Ace 9100 Di2. The shifting is fine but it is rediculously noisy. It seems putting a new chain on it seems to quiet it down for a bit and then it gets noisy again. I have swapped the hanger out and checked the chain line. I have put an Ultegra Di2 derailleur on and it is silent. I have sent the derailleur back to Canyon who have apparently sent it back to Shimano who have said it is fine. The mechanic at Canyon says he put it on his bike and it was fine. Next step is to send the whole bike back to Canyon.
    Which model ultegra derailleur did you put on the bike to make it silent? 6870 or 8050 series?
  • pilot_pete
    pilot_pete Posts: 2,120
    How annoying. My DA 9170 Group is also very noisy in operation. Shifting is accurate and fast but the chain is noisy as hell and does the same little skip on the cassette when turning the pedals backwards on the workstand. Everything set up correctly as per the OP following the Shimano Dealer Manual advice and minor adjustments on the fly to stop a little rub when pushing hard on the pedals out the saddle (due to very slight flex between BB and chainrings).

    It really sounds pretty agricultural, but works perfectly. I’m wondering if the deep section carbon rims are amplifying the noise!?

    My set up is DA 9150 front and rear mechs, Ultegra R8000 11-28 cassette, DA 9170 shifters, Rotor 3D 52/36 round ring crank with a CBear ceramic BB. Chain is Shimano Ultegra HG701 11 speed.

    Just like the OP, no chain rub against derailleur, everything set up correctly, yet it is noisy as hell! My son’s 10yo Alez with 9sp Sora is as smooth and quiet as hell in comparison...!

    PP

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