Diesel or petrol

greasedscotsman
greasedscotsman Posts: 6,962
edited September 2017 in The cake stop
Looking to replace my diesel Passat, which I've had for about 11 years. Will probably end up with something similar and for a similar amount of time, so is petrol now the way to go or stick with diesel?
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Comments

  • fat daddy
    fat daddy Posts: 2,605
    Petrol .... Deisel is rapidly becoming the new vilified combustion method .... the particulates are now responsible for untold deaths every year and councils are looking to bring in new cash cows in the form of penalizing diesel cars in cities.

    Petrol cars, WILL follow suit as they try to get everyone to buy hybrids ..... but the anti diesel wagon is starting to pick up pace, if you are planning on keeping the next car for 11 years, dont get a diesel
  • Stevo_666
    Stevo_666 Posts: 58,857
    May depend also on where you live (country/city etc) and how much mileage you do.
    "I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]
  • singleton
    singleton Posts: 2,516
    Right now it looks like diesel is getting a hard time, but petrol may catch up pretty quick.
    I've got a couple of diesels - worst case is I'll keep them a long time and maybe even bite the bullet and fit a petrol engine in one or other if the diesel market disappears.
    It may be worth considering a leasing deal for a few years which gives you predictable costs and the ability to walk away so you're not left with a low value vehicle.
  • veronese68
    veronese68 Posts: 27,412
    We recently bought a used Ford Smax and wanted petrol. We do a low mileage around town for the majority of the year which would clog up a diesel and be very expensive in garage costs. Petrol makes more sense for us. The problem we found was that 95% of big cars that are 5-10 years old are diesel. Diesels are losing value, petrol models are holding up a bit better. As mentioned above petrol will start to lose out to hybrid and then electric in time.
    If you're looking at holding on to something for a long time I'd go petrol and with fewer complications. As modern car electrics start to fail things will get expensive.
    Saying all that if you do a lot of miles diesel might make sense as Stevo says. Your purchase price will be lower if buying used and running costs won't be as high if you regularly go on long runs.
  • Stevo 666 wrote:
    May depend also on where you live (country/city etc) and how much mileage you do.

    I'm in the UK. Mileage is very low at the moment. Probably below 5,000, which a big chuck is trips over to France a couple of times a year.

    Of course, this could all change if the idea is to do as before and keep for 10 years or so.
  • Veronese68 wrote:
    The problem we found was that 95% of big cars that are 5-10 years old are diesel.

    Yup, that's what I'm finding. Might have to change plans a bit. Maybe not plan is keep it so long. Maybe get something smaller.
  • veronese68
    veronese68 Posts: 27,412
    oxoman wrote:
    Just one other thing I wouldn't be getting any VAG car as they're lying toerags.
    They are just the ones that got caught.
  • Stevo 666 wrote:
    May depend also on where you live (country/city etc) and how much mileage you do.

    I'm in the UK. Mileage is very low at the moment. Probably below 5,000, which a big chuck is trips over to France a couple of times a year.

    Of course, this could all change if the idea is to do as before and keep for 10 years or so.

    Petrol. Unless you do regular decent length trips on the motorway, the diesel particulate filter might be a PITA.
  • cooldad
    cooldad Posts: 32,599
    Diesel is smelly and disgusting.
    I don't do smileys.

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  • They say anything over 18000 miles a year and diesel is best but that was before the vw issue over emissions.
  • mamil314
    mamil314 Posts: 1,103
    Veronese68 wrote:
    oxoman wrote:
    Just one other thing I wouldn't be getting any VAG car as they're lying toerags.
    They are just the ones that got caught.


    Can we stop with whataboutism already, does this make it all right?
  • mamil314 wrote:
    Veronese68 wrote:
    oxoman wrote:
    Just one other thing I wouldn't be getting any VAG car as they're lying toerags.
    They are just the ones that got caught.


    Can we stop with whataboutism already, does this make it all right?

    Also, they got caught because their figures were so wrong when tested by West Virginia University, when a BMW tested in the same way was fine.
  • Stevo_666
    Stevo_666 Posts: 58,857
    Stevo 666 wrote:
    May depend also on where you live (country/city etc) and how much mileage you do.

    I'm in the UK. Mileage is very low at the moment. Probably below 5,000, which a big chuck is trips over to France a couple of times a year.

    Of course, this could all change if the idea is to do as before and keep for 10 years or so.
    I meant whether you're a city dweller or a country bumpkin - as the likely punishment for driving oil burners may be for people driving them in cities - London is already talking about doing it.
    "I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]
  • keef66
    keef66 Posts: 13,123
    It's a proper puzzler. A properly maintained diesel engine can certainly outlast an equivalent petrol one, as long as all the other ancillary engine management / filtration/ EGR / turbo systems etc carry on working properly. But most modern engines are pretty reliable / durable anyway, and repairing / replacing those components on a diesel can be eye-wateringly expensive.

    If you do very high mileages then a diesel will drink a lot less fuel, but if they decide to increase the fuel duty on diesel to deter it's use that could sink the economic argument.
    Diesel cars used to keep their value better than petrol, but I'm guessing that's all gone tits up now too.
    And that's without finding yourself banned from or charged for driving anywhere near a city centre, and becoming a social pariah for owning such a filthy, lethally polluting vehicle.

    Over a year ago when I was choosing a company car the VW emissions fcukup was in full cry, so the writing was already on the wall for diesels. So I did test drive one with a smart turbo petrol engine that shut down 2 of the cylinders when cruising / slowing down. The fuel economy on paper looked impressive and the BIK tax was close to that of the equivalent diesel but I didn't have it long enough to test it properly. It was a hoot to drive, but in the end went for another diesel purely based on the estimated fuel bill and tax liability, knowing it was the leasing company, not me who was taking the risk on depreciation / maintenance costs.

    If I was making a decision now about buying a car for our mainly rural, low mileage existence I think I'd likely go for petrol, or possibly petrol hybrid. But I'd also consider personal contract hire as a way of financing it without the risk and without tying up too much cash.

    If I stay in a job long enough to choose another company car I'm sure it will be a petrol hybrid because they'll have changed the tax system to kill diesels once and for all. I can't imagine we'll have the infrastructure to make a fully electric car viable within 3 years...
  • As keef said, it's often the replacement parts on diesels which are the scary bit. If you don't do many miles, or the miles are mainly local, why not get a small petrol car and if you need a bigger vehicle for holidays etc, hire one?
    Ecrasez l’infame
  • twist83
    twist83 Posts: 761
    I always said that Diesel is the Devils fuel.

    I currently have a Petrol 3.2 V6 in the highest tax band and a 2.0 Turbo whacking out 310bhp. But they are petrol so I am doing my bit for the planet.....

    We do about 18000-20000 a year combined across the two. I actually enjoy driving so the additional cost is not a problem for me.

    5-10 year old Diesel. Unless you are doing high miles I would stick to a small engine Turbo car. I have just handed back a A1 1.4T (works car) fantastic engine in it. Never felt wanting on power, reliable, decent on fuel. I can imagine they are a lot cheaper to maintain and fix than a 2.0 TD.
  • Stevo 666 wrote:
    I meant whether you're a city dweller or a country bumpkin - as the likely punishment for driving oil burners may be for people driving them in cities - London is already talking about doing it.

    Oops, sorry. Defo a country bumpkin.
  • pblakeney
    pblakeney Posts: 25,977
    5000 miles a year?
    Petrol. I wouldn't even bother with hybrid for such low mileage.
    The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
    I am not sure. You have no chance.
    Veronese68 wrote:
    PB is the most sensible person on here.
  • keef66
    keef66 Posts: 13,123
    twist83 wrote:
    I have just handed back a A1 1.4T (works car) fantastic engine in it. Never felt wanting on power, reliable, decent on fuel. I can imagine they are a lot cheaper to maintain and fix than a 2.0 TD.

    That was what I test drove; An A1 with the 1.4T cod engine. A hoot to drive, but we both went down with flu the weekend we had it so never really gave it a decent run :(

    Ended up with the 1.6 tdci version which is also quite zippy, extremely frugal, but apparently killing the planet.
  • Stevo_666
    Stevo_666 Posts: 58,857
    Stevo 666 wrote:
    I meant whether you're a city dweller or a country bumpkin - as the likely punishment for driving oil burners may be for people driving them in cities - London is already talking about doing it.

    Oops, sorry. Defo a country bumpkin.
    OK, so you may not get ripped off for city driving, but 5k miles a year probably isn't enough to justify a diesel so I'd say go petrol. (If they force me off the road in the London burbs then I may get a decent gas guzzling petrol jobbie just for the hell of it :) )
    "I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]
  • mouth
    mouth Posts: 1,195
    Hmm,

    Currently having a similar conundrum myself.

    Modern diesels are far cleaner than ever before, but this comes with its own issues, mainly DPF related. Given the mileage you're putting out, I suspect long journeys are few and far between. Expect a bill (upwards of £1000) to clean your DPF in the first 4 years. If you want to circumvent any kind of issues with DPF/EGR etc, import a Mercedes directly from Germany yourself. Also, on your jaunts to France, don't ever fill it up over there. Their diesel is of a lower quality in terms of the additives and cleaning properties mixed in. As for the VAG issues, they're just the ones that got caught. That's gonna be the gift that just keeps on giving.

    Modern petrol engines are far more economical, bridging the mpg gap between the two variants. Personally, I prefer the driveability of a petrol engine, and I have a similar mileage profile to yourself but my father in law who's 50k + annually will always choose diesel for the savings.

    If you're set on a large diesel, take a look at Dacia - it's a bulletproof Renault DCi unit without so much as the cost. Resale will be pretty bad but if you're keeping it 10+ years it won't be worth anything anyway. Look at how Kia and Hyundai have become market contenders in the last 5 years. I expect Dacia to be a similar story.

    I can't comment on tax issues or clean air/congestion charging, but in 2024 it will all become a 'thing' no matter what city you frequent. High performance cars are already being crippled at first registration.
    The only disability in life is a poor attitude.
  • orraloon
    orraloon Posts: 12,773
    As keef said, it's often the replacement parts on diesels which are the scary bit. If you don't do many miles, or the miles are mainly local, why not get a small petrol car and if you need a bigger vehicle for holidays etc, hire one?
    Missus and I going down this route after she left the company job with company car end of last year. Been in no great rush to buy / lease / contract hire the 'proper' replacement big expensive motor which then sits idle for majority of time. Sums point to hiring when necessary for cross channel trips / holidays / etc with a cheapo low tax small petrol car with minimal depreciation for the small scale local needs. Pity we live in a rural village so no car pool option.
  • Stevo_666
    Stevo_666 Posts: 58,857
    Mouth wrote:
    Hmm,

    Currently having a similar conundrum myself.

    Modern diesels are far cleaner than ever before, but this comes with its own issues, mainly DPF related. Given the mileage you're putting out, I suspect long journeys are few and far between. Expect a bill (upwards of £1000) to clean your DPF in the first 4 years.
    It's not that bad - unless the DPF is completely fubarred. More often you can have a forced regeneration done on it which costs less than £100.

    That said, if you're not doing much mileage and lots of short journeys, don't bother with a diesel.
    "I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]
  • Just take it up the motorway once a month and give it a good beating. That clears out the dpf.

    We have a euro 6 blue hdi which is supposed to be as clean as petrol but if they do put up the duty on diesel it would impact us as well. I think they may do it through VED based on emissions.
  • tlw1
    tlw1 Posts: 21,898
    Hybrid makes sense for company car drivers because of the tax

    Buying privately and doing low miles - go big petrol engine and enjoy yourself
  • pblakeney
    pblakeney Posts: 25,977
    TLW1 wrote:
    Hybrid makes sense for company car drivers because of the tax

    Buying privately and doing low miles - go big petrol engine and enjoy yourself
    While you can!
    I visualise driving for pleasure being a track day only thing within 15 years.
    The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
    I am not sure. You have no chance.
    Veronese68 wrote:
    PB is the most sensible person on here.
  • orraloon
    orraloon Posts: 12,773
    PBlakeney wrote:
    TLW1 wrote:
    Hybrid makes sense for company car drivers because of the tax

    Buying privately and doing low miles - go big petrol engine and enjoy yourself
    While you can!
    I visualise driving for pleasure being a track day only thing within 15 years.
    :D Have a family member doing her university course industry placement year with JLR. Electric Range Rovers! Autonomous Jaguars? Jeremy C having kittens.
  • pblakeney
    pblakeney Posts: 25,977
    orraloon wrote:
    PBlakeney wrote:
    TLW1 wrote:
    Hybrid makes sense for company car drivers because of the tax

    Buying privately and doing low miles - go big petrol engine and enjoy yourself
    While you can!
    I visualise driving for pleasure being a track day only thing within 15 years.
    :D Have a family member doing her university course industry placement year with JLR. Electric Range Rovers! Autonomous Jaguars? Jeremy C having kittens.
    I also visualise compulsory black boxes.
    A guy at work has one fitted so he can afford his daughter's insurance at 18. Sucks the life out of his driving. He even gets a warning if he drives to the airport past midnight as it is out of normal driving hours! :shock:
    The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
    I am not sure. You have no chance.
    Veronese68 wrote:
    PB is the most sensible person on here.
  • mr_goo
    mr_goo Posts: 3,770
    PBlakeney wrote:
    orraloon wrote:
    PBlakeney wrote:
    TLW1 wrote:
    Hybrid makes sense for company car drivers because of the tax

    Buying privately and doing low miles - go big petrol engine and enjoy yourself
    While you can!
    I visualise driving for pleasure being a track day only thing within 15 years.
    :D Have a family member doing her university course industry placement year with JLR. Electric Range Rovers! Autonomous Jaguars? Jeremy C having kittens.
    I also visualise compulsory black boxes.
    A guy at work has one fitted so he can afford his daughter's insurance at 18. Sucks the life out of his driving. He even gets a warning if he drives to the airport past midnight as it is out of normal driving hours! :shock:

    Done the same on Mrs Goos Alfa. Only way we could afford to insure our daughter. It rewards you with bronze, silver and gold medals for each trip according to speed, braking, acceleration and time of day. In the summer evenings we cannot get above bronze because it's deemed night time driving.

    Anyhow go with Petrol, Hybrid or Electric. The Alfa is Guilietta Sportiva the diesel version of the Quadrifoglio and worst days work I ever did was buy it. A heart over head purchase. Can't even put my foot down on it because of that damned black box.
    Always be yourself, unless you can be Aaron Rodgers....Then always be Aaron Rodgers.
  • Petrol.

    The fact that Diesel use less fuel is a bit of a myth to be honest... I used to average 50 mpg with a diesel and now I am at 48.5 mpg with a petrol... the difference is hardly worth poisoning people... unless you drive 30K miles per year, then it might make a difference to your wallet.

    The only REAL difference is torque. Diesel engines go up a 5-7% slope like nothing, petrol engines struggle, unless they are massive turbo charged monsters (hence use a lot of fuel).
    My 90 bhp diesel had way more torque than my 105 bhp petrol... in practice though it doesn't make any real world difference
    left the forum March 2023