Vuelta Podium Girls Change

tangled_metal · February 2018

SecretSqirrel wrote:

RichN95 wrote:

RichN95 wrote:

- how many overweight, bald men are there presenting TV?

So we had Greg Wallace and Dom Littlewood from British TV. It's not a great haul. And surely the obvious answer was Dara O'Briain anyway.

How many overweight, bald women are there presenting TV?

Seen Dawn Porter on TV recently. Does that count?

blazing_saddles · February 2018

These are the first "podium birds" pressure groups should aim to get rid of.

rick_chasey · February 2018

Ben6899 wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

Ben6899 wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

a feminist movement which has objected to things such as grid girls.

And this is where people need to be careful. I mean, it's not very empowering for any woman that happens to be a "grid girl".

Live and let live.

You know the argument right?

I mean, I’m sure it was tough for the black musicians who accompanied minstrel shows but ya, whatcha gonna do?

I’m sure you’d be comfortable with more people becoming vegetarian, even at th expense of some butchers.

In this instance I’d suggest that the broader feminist movement has been successful in making things such as grid girls something that’s not seen as progressive or forward thinking, and so, ultimately less popular.

Do bear in mind this is a business decision. I know you’ve taken that context out but it’s important. They’re bowing to changing public perceptions, not a specific pressure group.

The minstrels parallel is a fair one and I get your point - I would need to do some reading, but I bet similar discussions were had when some black musicians were suddenly out of work for the greater good.

The vegetarians/butchers is not a great analogy, in all fairness.

The point I am trying to make in all this is that it's not as straight forward as some here would like to think. There's no room in civilised society for the "podium birds" attitude, but also we have to be wary of thinking and acting on behalf of others (I know this was a business decision, but the feminist groups taking away empowerment from women is a little perverse).

If you were starting your sport tomorrow, you probably wouldn't include "podium girls" "grid girls" whatever.

Of course, there are winners and losers in the process of change. That doesn't mean the change isn't worth having.

I don't think people are necessarily acting on behalf of others. There are jobs I think don't help gender causes, and I'm entitled to say that.

The whole empowerment thing is a red herring.

Improve structural and cultural gender equality, doesn't necessarily need to be "empowerment". It can just be doing small things to help change the way different genders are perceived.

In this instance, women as 'spoils' (as Vino put) or 'adornments' to men.

mididoctors · February 2018

Vino'sGhost wrote:

Gweeds wrote:

Vino'sGhost wrote:

I suspect that most whinging about this is being done by ugly unsuccessful blokes with minging wives and women with beards.

The podium birds are there to add a bit of glamour to affairs. Ive been to loads of events where the only thing that stops it being an awkward end to a race on a portable stage in the wind and rain are the podium birds. Its certainly not the mayor.

Rasputin has spoken.

Dick.

Ahhhh the liberal free thinker has grunted. Why not tell the women what they want and how to think.

thats what podium/grid girls ANYTHING is....a culture telling people how to think and perceive you cant use this argument of "telling people what to think" because that already exists

the question is more...

what do we tell each other to think?

salsiccia1 · February 2018

Blazing Saddles wrote:

These are the first "podium birds" pressure groups should aim to get rid of.

In fairness, there are plenty of people complaining about the fashion industry influencing body image. And you do get men doing the same job for the same reason: because they make clothes look good.

Ben6899 · February 2018

Salsiccia1 wrote:

Blazing Saddles wrote:

These are the first "podium birds" pressure groups should aim to get rid of.

In fairness, there are plenty of people complaining about the fashion industry influencing body image. And you do get men doing the same job for the same reason: because they make clothes look good.

This is true. Put Savile Row suit on Richard Keys and it looks like something from George at ASDA.

Richmond Racer 2 · February 2018

Ben6899 wrote:

Richmond Racer 2 wrote:

Ben6899 wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

a feminist movement which has objected to things such as grid girls.

And this is where people need to be careful. I mean, it's not very empowering for any woman that happens to be a "grid girl".

Live and let live.

The whole shebang isnt empowering

That's not for anyone outside to decide.

Oh mate.

And the owners have decided. Or are they - in your world - 'outsiders'?

Dont worry, there'll still be Babestation for ya

Vino'sGhost · February 2018

Ben6899 wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

Ben6899 wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

a feminist movement which has objected to things such as grid girls.

And this is where people need to be careful. I mean, it's not very empowering for any woman that happens to be a "grid girl".

Live and let live.

You know the argument right?

I mean, I’m sure it was tough for the black musicians who accompanied minstrel shows but ya, whatcha gonna do?

I’m sure you’d be comfortable with more people becoming vegetarian, even at th expense of some butchers.

In this instance I’d suggest that the broader feminist movement has been successful in making things such as grid girls something that’s not seen as progressive or forward thinking, and so, ultimately less popular.

Do bear in mind this is a business decision. I know you’ve taken that context out but it’s important. They’re bowing to changing public perceptions, not a specific pressure group.

The minstrels parallel is a fair one and I get your point - I would need to do some reading, but I bet similar discussions were had when some black musicians were suddenly out of work for the greater good.

The vegetarians/butchers is not a great analogy, in all fairness.

The point I am trying to make in all this is that it's not as straight forward as some here would like to think. There's no room in civilised society for the "podium birds" attitude, but also we have to be wary of thinking and acting on behalf of others (I know this was a business decision, but the feminist groups taking away empowerment from women is a little perverse).

There’s plenty of room for podium birds. Arrogant small minded tools have a place too

Ben6899 · February 2018

Richmond Racer 2 wrote:

Ben6899 wrote:

Richmond Racer 2 wrote:

Ben6899 wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

a feminist movement which has objected to things such as grid girls.

And this is where people need to be careful. I mean, it's not very empowering for any woman that happens to be a "grid girl".

Live and let live.

The whole shebang isnt empowering

That's not for anyone outside to decide.

Oh mate.

And the owners have decided. Or are they - in your world - 'outsiders'?

Dont worry, there'll still be Babestation for ya

Hey. Don't be a dick, mate. You should see from my other contributions to this that that's totally unwarranted.

trivial_poursuivant · February 2018

Thing that gets me is: they are removing podium girls, they are removing grid girls, they are removing darts walk on girls. They could be removing ring girls in boxing.

No mention of American Football cheerleaders. Probably cos they know without them there is f@ck all worth watching.

tangled_metal · February 2018

I used to watch American football as a kid. Even watched it live at a local British team at a teenager. Despite rampant hormones I didn't really care one jot about cheerleaders. I watched the sport, it was the interesting part. Scantily clad girls prancing around was about titillating pathetic men and I saw that even as a kid with the raging hormones of a teenager.

Vino'sGhost · February 2018

Tangled Metal wrote:

I used to watch American football as a kid. Even watched it live at a local British team at a teenager. Despite rampant hormones I didn't really care one jot about cheerleaders. I watched the sport, it was the interesting part. Scantily clad girls prancing around was about titillating pathetic men and I saw that even as a kid with the raging hormones of a teenager.

Well that’s just your opinion. Just because you don’t find women attractive doesn’t mean that men don’t

tangled_metal · February 2018

I find them attractive. I just don't find attractive women prancing around in clothing they'd probably not choose to wear outside of such an event for no obvious reason other than gratification of men exactly entertaining or attractive. If you can explain what their purpose is other than that I'd be interested.

If you find them the only interest in an American football game then why do you go to the game in the first place? If it's on TV use the remote. If you're going to any sporting event without any interest in it I do question whether providing you with some prancing "totty" is the best solution or not being there in the first place is best.

trivial_poursuivant · February 2018

The point was the sport is boring , not the girls . But I see there are so many enraged for the sake of being anraged people who love to jump on the occasional bandwagon which tbh they previously didn’t really care two sh1ts about until it gave them something else to vent their spleens over. It really is pathetic some of it.

I personally don’t see issues with podium girls or cheerleaders. Cheerleaders are there to stir upthe crowd. They enjoy it, the fans enjoy it. So what’s the big deal? Some will call it exploiting women. They choose to do it and they get paid quite well. But let’s ban it, then ban woman from modelling anything, then ban short skirts, make up, low cut tops, make all women wear black full body length gowns that cover their faces, we wouldn’t want them being exploited now. Extreme sounding but that’s exactly what it is and it exists and we should be glad we live in a country that doesn’t enforce such stupid rules.

lettingthedaysgoby · February 2018

http://blog.amandabatty.com/2018/02/dea ... -girl.html

This is spot on.

trivial_poursuivant · February 2018

lettingthedaysgoby wrote:

http://blog.amandabatty.com/2018/02/dear-podium-girl.html

This is spot on.

Female professional mountain biker.

Who probably earns less than many women who do so based on their looks. Bet she ain’t at all bitter.

bobmcstuff · February 2018

RichN95 wrote:

Ben6899 wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

a feminist movement which has objected to things such as grid girls.

And this is where people need to be careful. I mean, it's not very empowering for any woman that happens to be a "grid girl".

Live and let live.

It's hard too tell what is empowering. Sky F1 reporter William Esler posted this:

Swansea uni! No way!

apreading · February 2018

lettingthedaysgoby wrote:

http://blog.amandabatty.com/2018/02/dear-podium-girl.html

This is spot on.

Here is the bit I dont get though:

But from a female professional athlete to you, here's some unsolicited advice: go get a job that relies on expertise outside of your appearance.

So, a person can get a job that relies on:

1) their intelligence
2) their strength
3) their speed
4) their reactions
5) their ability to drive a car fast
6) their ability to understand psychology and help others
7) their ability to operate under pressure

In fact a person can get a job based on any mental or physical asset they have where theirs is above average EXCEPT their appearance. Why should this be the exception? Surely this is just using your best talents to maximise your potential in whichever field your talents lie? Why is using your appearance any worse than using your strength or speed? It isnt. Its just because our judgement is clouded by a millennia of poor attitudes towards women that we even think there is anything wrong with this.

People like to look at good looking people.

In formula 1, Steve Jones started his career as a male model and used his appearance as a big part of his appeal to get to where he is today. I am not saying he isnt good at what he does (I am not commenting either way on that) but if he had been a fat, balding man, he would not be where he is today and would not be the anchor for C4 coverage of F1. So should be be exluded too?

trivial_poursuivant · February 2018

apreading wrote:

lettingthedaysgoby wrote:

http://blog.amandabatty.com/2018/02/dear-podium-girl.html

This is spot on.

Here is the bit I dont get though:

But from a female professional athlete to you, here's some unsolicited advice: go get a job that relies on expertise outside of your appearance.

So, a person can get a job that relies on:

1) their intelligence
2) their strength
3) their speed
4) their reactions
5) their ability to drive a car fast
6) their ability to understand psychology and help others
7) their ability to operate under pressure

In fact a person can get a job based on any mental or physical asset they have where theirs is above average EXCEPT their appearance. Why should this be the exception? Surely this is just using your best talents to maximise your potential in whichever field your talents lie? Why is using your appearance any worse than using your strength or speed? It isnt. Its just because our judgement is clouded by a millennia of poor attitudes towards women that we even think there is anything wrong with this.

People like to look at good looking people.

In formula 1, Steve Jones started his career as a male model and used his appearance as a big part of his appeal to get to where he is today. I am not saying he isnt good at what he does (I am not commenting either way on that) but if he had been a fat, balding man, he would not be where he is today and would not be the anchor for C4 coverage of F1. So should be be exluded too?

People talk of equality. So a woman should be able to be paid (quite rightly) the same as a man but we still want to control the ways in which they should. A female model will always be able to earn more than men. I can’t think of many male models who are world famous multi millionaires.

RichN95. · February 2018

apreading wrote:

lettingthedaysgoby wrote:

http://blog.amandabatty.com/2018/02/dear-podium-girl.html

This is spot on.

Here is the bit I dont get though:

But from a female professional athlete to you, here's some unsolicited advice: go get a job that relies on expertise outside of your appearance.

Here's the bit I don't get:

Damn. I really do feel for you. But again -- you're a non-contributor. You don't actually add anything to the sport that you've latched onto, nor are you investing in the market or industry. You don't bring value to any of the sports, nor do you attract the kind of audience that actually spends money

They get paid well and enjoy their job. What's not to like from their point of view? I doubt they give a toss about their market value.

Wheelspinner · February 2018

Anyone who thinks US pro sport cheerleaders are just ditzy bimbos in silly costumes has no clue at all. They are professional, paid very well and train very damned hard for the job. I doubt the pro MTB rider is any fitter at all. Bitter maybe, but not fitter.

RichN95. · February 2018

Wheelspinner wrote:

Anyone who thinks US pro sport cheerleaders are just ditzy bimbos in silly costumes has no clue at all. They are professional, paid very well and train very damned hard for the job. I doubt the pro MTB rider is any fitter at all. Bitter maybe, but not fitter.

Good point. Cheerleading in the US is seen as a 'sport' in its own right.

rick_chasey · February 2018

inseine · February 2018

RichN95 wrote:

Wheelspinner wrote:

Anyone who thinks US pro sport cheerleaders are just ditzy bimbos in silly costumes has no clue at all. They are professional, paid very well and train very damned hard for the job. I doubt the pro MTB rider is any fitter at all. Bitter maybe, but not fitter.

Good point. Cheerleading in the US is seen as a 'sport' in its own right.

A friend of mine is a femanist actavist and his daughter is a cheerleader. Although I've never got it, it is viewed as a sport and they train hard to perfect the routines (like synchronized swimming?). As far as I know you don't get kicked out of the team if you're not concudered pretty enough.

iainf72 · February 2018

Trivial poursuivant wrote:

lettingthedaysgoby wrote:

http://blog.amandabatty.com/2018/02/dear-podium-girl.html

This is spot on.

Female professional mountain biker.

Who probably earns less than many women who do so based on their looks. Bet she ain’t at all bitter.

Wait, if I'm understanding that, the market has decided the girls are surplus to requirement. The same market that decides what Amanda gets paid.

If you're going to make a market based argument, at least think about it a bit first.

trivial_poursuivant · February 2018

iainf72 wrote:

Trivial poursuivant wrote:

lettingthedaysgoby wrote:

http://blog.amandabatty.com/2018/02/dear-podium-girl.html

This is spot on.

Female professional mountain biker.

Who probably earns less than many women who do so based on their looks. Bet she ain’t at all bitter.

Wait, if I'm understanding that, the market has decided the girls are surplus to requirement. The same market that decides what Amanda gets paid.

If you're going to make a market based argument, at least think about it a bit first.

I’m not making it a market based argument. Maybe you are. I’m pointing out that we currently have a professional cyclist saying she thinks a girl who stands on a podium has no place being anywhere near her sport. Who the f@ck is she exactly to say who can do what?

The whole ridiculous thing to me is,If a girl was to be stood there in a bikini ( I know they aint but for arguments sake) there is this school of thought that a woman is being exploited and that men are just ogling her. But ifI go to a sunny beach I will see thousands of girls all in skimpy bikinis. They certainly are not good for swimming in compared to a proper swimming costume. So why? Because they WANT to be looked at, they WANT to show of their figures and how well tanned they are. They can stand on a beach and that’s ok but nowhere else. There is a whole bunch of hypocrites on here who are damning the practise of podium girls, walk on girls etc, or even the use of them to host charity functions. But I don’t remember hearing a God damn peep out of any of them on the subject previously. But then, they never had an angry rabble to join on the subject before. Yet they probably still do like to look at the girl on the beach i the bikini without giving it a second thought.

iainf72 · February 2018

Trivial poursuivant wrote:

I’m not making it a market based argument. Maybe you are. I’m pointing out that we currently have a professional cyclist saying she thinks a girl who stands on a podium has no place being anywhere near her sport. Who the f@ck is she exactly to say who can do what?

I was referring to the blog's author, not you, making the market-based argument.

I think podium girls are a bit silly but if you go into it eyes open and you can make a buck doing it, that's up to the individual. What we should be more concerned about is people signing up for jobs and then being treated like a piece of meat. Using your looks to earn money is just as valid as using your brain or athletic ability. IMO.

trivial_poursuivant · February 2018

lettingthedaysgoby wrote:

http://blog.amandabatty.com/2018/02/dear-podium-girl.html

This is spot on.

Just a quick question. What exactly is YOUR position on podium girls? And why?

No_Ta_Doctor · February 2018

Trivial poursuivant wrote:

iainf72 wrote:

Trivial poursuivant wrote:

lettingthedaysgoby wrote:

http://blog.amandabatty.com/2018/02/dear-podium-girl.html

This is spot on.

Female professional mountain biker.

Who probably earns less than many women who do so based on their looks. Bet she ain’t at all bitter.

Wait, if I'm understanding that, the market has decided the girls are surplus to requirement. The same market that decides what Amanda gets paid.

If you're going to make a market based argument, at least think about it a bit first.

I’m not making it a market based argument. Maybe you are. I’m pointing out that we currently have a professional cyclist saying she thinks a girl who stands on a podium has no place being anywhere near her sport. Who the f@ck is she exactly to say who can do what?

The whole ridiculous thing to me is,If a girl was to be stood there in a bikini ( I know they aint but for arguments sake) there is this school of thought that a woman is being exploited and that men are just ogling her. But ifI go to a sunny beach I will see thousands of girls all in skimpy bikinis. They certainly are not good for swimming in compared to a proper swimming costume. So why? Because they WANT to be looked at, they WANT to show of their figures and how well tanned they are. They can stand on a beach and that’s ok but nowhere else. There is a whole bunch of hypocrites on here who are damning the practise of podium girls, walk on girls etc, or even the use of them to host charity functions. But I don’t remember hearing a God damn peep out of any of them on the subject previously. But then, they never had an angry rabble to join on the subject before. Yet they probably still do like to look at the girl on the beach i the bikini without giving it a second thought.

I'm not sure you've been paying attention. Plenty of people on this forum have maintained a consistent position on podium girls for as long as I've been here. We've been having this debate for several years at least. Welcome to the party, sorry you couldn't join us earlier.

As for why girls wear bikinis on the beach, helpful hint: they aren't doing it for you.
Who the f@ck is Amanda Batty to say what should or should not go on in the sport she participates in... She's a professional mountain biker. It's her sport.

trivial_poursuivant · February 2018

No tA Doctor wrote:

Trivial poursuivant wrote:

iainf72 wrote:

Trivial poursuivant wrote:

lettingthedaysgoby wrote:

http://blog.amandabatty.com/2018/02/dear-podium-girl.html

This is spot on.

Female professional mountain biker.

Who probably earns less than many women who do so based on their looks. Bet she ain’t at all bitter.

Wait, if I'm understanding that, the market has decided the girls are surplus to requirement. The same market that decides what Amanda gets paid.

If you're going to make a market based argument, at least think about it a bit first.

I’m not making it a market based argument. Maybe you are. I’m pointing out that we currently have a professional cyclist saying she thinks a girl who stands on a podium has no place being anywhere near her sport. Who the f@ck is she exactly to say who can do what?

The whole ridiculous thing to me is,If a girl was to be stood there in a bikini ( I know they aint but for arguments sake) there is this school of thought that a woman is being exploited and that men are just ogling her. But ifI go to a sunny beach I will see thousands of girls all in skimpy bikinis. They certainly are not good for swimming in compared to a proper swimming costume. So why? Because they WANT to be looked at, they WANT to show of their figures and how well tanned they are. They can stand on a beach and that’s ok but nowhere else. There is a whole bunch of hypocrites on here who are damning the practise of podium girls, walk on girls etc, or even the use of them to host charity functions. But I don’t remember hearing a God damn peep out of any of them on the subject previously. But then, they never had an angry rabble to join on the subject before. Yet they probably still do like to look at the girl on the beach i the bikini without giving it a second thought.

I'm not sure you've been paying attention. Plenty of people on this forum have maintained a consistent position on podium girls for as long as I've been here. We've been having this debate for several years at least. Welcome to the party, sorry you couldn't join us earlier.

As for why girls wear bikinis on the beach, helpful hint: they aren't doing it for you.
Who the f@ck is Amanda Batty to say what should or should not go on in the sport she participates in... She's a professional mountain biker. It's her sport.

They were there in this sport long before she came along. So how does that qualify her as being more righteous in the subject? As for the bikini girls maybe they are not doing it for me personally but are you saying girls don’t like to look attractive to men? I would say the enormous fashion, cosmetic and perfume industries will say otherwise.

Vuelta Podium Girls Change

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