Vuelta Podium Girls Change

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  • salsiccia1salsiccia1 Posts: 3,244
    Resurrecting an old thread with this one:

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/42890261

    It's only a matter of time now for the bigger races, isn't it?
    It's only a bit of sport, Mun. Relax and enjoy the racing.
  • Bodyguard-team-Pune.jpg
    "Science is a tool for cheaters". An anonymous French PE teacher.
  • rick_chaseyrick_chasey Posts: 43,856 Lives Here
    Holiday snaps?
  • RichN95.RichN95. Posts: 22,562
    salsiccia1 wrote:
    Resurrecting an old thread with this one:

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/42890261

    It's only a matter of time now for the bigger races, isn't it?
    Probably not. The difference with the hostesses in Grand Tours at least is the podium bit is only a small part of a long day representing sponsors and at the Tour at least they are appropriately dressed for the role. In darts and F1 their role seemed to be little more than titilation.
    Twitter: @RichN95
  • Holiday snaps?

    Eh? You must holiday in very difference places to me.....
    "Science is a tool for cheaters". An anonymous French PE teacher.
  • Vino'sGhostVino'sGhost Posts: 4,320
    Liberal lefty weak are most likely to be most upset. Attractive people less so. There are studies etc etc.

    On a personal level I can look at a woman and find her figure or appearance attractive without that woman being reduced purely to the level of sexual object. For me it’s a part of the spectacle.

    Suggesting that a woman is in any way diminished bey a man who looks at her as a woman is one dimensional but well supported by decades of self serving feminist pr, much of which assumes all men are would be rapists and all women are weak and retiring.
  • salsiccia1salsiccia1 Posts: 3,244
    edited January 2018
    The point about podium girls on the Tour having a lot of other functions is a good one, but the fact that they are always only attractive young women undermines the argument a bit. If the hosts were of both sexes, such as the Vuelta have done, that would be at least a move in the right direction.
    It's only a bit of sport, Mun. Relax and enjoy the racing.
  • ProssPross Posts: 21,075
    The interesting thing with the darts and F1 bans is no-one seems to have consulted the women who do the job and who, it seems, are upset at losing a well paid, exciting job (the words of one of those interviewed).
  • salsiccia1salsiccia1 Posts: 3,244
    Pross wrote:
    The interesting thing with the darts and F1 bans is no-one seems to have consulted the women who do the job and who, it seems, are upset at losing a well paid, exciting job (the words of one of those interviewed).

    That's a fair point too, but for the greater good things have to change IMHO.
    It's only a bit of sport, Mun. Relax and enjoy the racing.
  • Vino'sGhostVino'sGhost Posts: 4,320
    Where’s the greater good?
  • Where’s the greater good?
    The slow move towards a world where women aren’t just viewed as pretty objects to look at maybe?
  • Where’s the greater good?
    The slow move towards a world where women aren’t just viewed as pretty objects to look at maybe?

    You really think that women are only viewed like that?
    By Hollywood well, maybe, but for the rest of us, that's pretty bleak.
    "Science is a tool for cheaters". An anonymous French PE teacher.
  • salsiccia1salsiccia1 Posts: 3,244
    Where’s the greater good?

    Two that come to mind:

    - The idea that women can be more than just an adornment to top level sport
    - That girls can think that there are other ways to be successful than being tall, thin and pretty
    It's only a bit of sport, Mun. Relax and enjoy the racing.
  • awaveyawavey Posts: 2,152
    salsiccia1 wrote:
    Where’s the greater good?

    Two that come to mind:

    - The idea that women can be more than just an adornment to top level sport
    - That girls can think that there are other ways to be successful than being tall, thin and pretty

    on both points Id say those are ideas and thinking that men need to learn first and foremost, most women are already well aware of those things.
  • RichN95.RichN95. Posts: 22,562
    salsiccia1 wrote:
    Where’s the greater good?

    Two that come to mind:

    - The idea that women can be more than just an adornment to top level sport
    - That girls can think that there are other ways to be successful than being tall, thin and pretty
    But if you see them as 'just an adornment' you are doing them a disservice. They do a lot more than that. They are responsible for looking after the race sponsors and their guests, including the logistics - a pretty important job.
    Twitter: @RichN95
  • salsiccia1salsiccia1 Posts: 3,244
    RichN95 wrote:
    salsiccia1 wrote:
    Where’s the greater good?

    Two that come to mind:

    - The idea that women can be more than just an adornment to top level sport
    - That girls can think that there are other ways to be successful than being tall, thin and pretty
    But if you see them as 'just an adornment' you are doing them a disservice. They do a lot more than that. They are responsible for looking after the race sponsors and their guests, including the logistics - a pretty important job.

    The things you mention are all unseen. And all of it: the looking after sponsors, logistics and presenting on the podium, all of that can be done by anyone competent; not just a young, attractive woman.

    The average punter just sees a few pretty girls standing next to a successful man. What does that say?
    It's only a bit of sport, Mun. Relax and enjoy the racing.
  • RichN95.RichN95. Posts: 22,562
    salsiccia1 wrote:
    RichN95 wrote:
    salsiccia1 wrote:
    Where’s the greater good?

    Two that come to mind:

    - The idea that women can be more than just an adornment to top level sport
    - That girls can think that there are other ways to be successful than being tall, thin and pretty
    But if you see them as 'just an adornment' you are doing them a disservice. They do a lot more than that. They are responsible for looking after the race sponsors and their guests, including the logistics - a pretty important job.

    The things you mention are all unseen. And all of it: the looking after sponsors, logistics and presenting on the podium, all of that can be done by anyone competent; not just a young, attractive woman.

    The average punter just sees a few pretty girls standing next to a successful man. What does that say?
    There are parts that need changing (the kissing bit), but using good looking women (or men) to promote a brand is just advertising. Some jobs require physical skills, some require intelligence and some require looks.
    Twitter: @RichN95
  • salsiccia1salsiccia1 Posts: 3,244
    RichN95 wrote:
    salsiccia1 wrote:
    RichN95 wrote:
    salsiccia1 wrote:
    Where’s the greater good?

    Two that come to mind:

    - The idea that women can be more than just an adornment to top level sport
    - That girls can think that there are other ways to be successful than being tall, thin and pretty
    But if you see them as 'just an adornment' you are doing them a disservice. They do a lot more than that. They are responsible for looking after the race sponsors and their guests, including the logistics - a pretty important job.

    The things you mention are all unseen. And all of it: the looking after sponsors, logistics and presenting on the podium, all of that can be done by anyone competent; not just a young, attractive woman.

    The average punter just sees a few pretty girls standing next to a successful man. What does that say?
    There are parts that need changing (the kissing bit), but using good looking women (or men) to promote a brand is just advertising. Some jobs require physical skills, some require intelligence and some require looks.

    Fine, let's have races use both men and women to do the job. As much as they do behind the scenes, the visible part reinforces the same old ideas of women's roles in high level sport, maybe not explicitly but subliminally, at least.
    It's only a bit of sport, Mun. Relax and enjoy the racing.
  • RichN95.RichN95. Posts: 22,562
    salsiccia1 wrote:
    Fine, let's have races use both men and women to do the job.
    OK. Although I would suggest that it's a job women are better at. They tend be more personable.
    Twitter: @RichN95
  • inseineinseine Posts: 5,655
    Pross wrote:
    The interesting thing with the darts and F1 bans is no-one seems to have consulted the women who do the job and who, it seems, are upset at losing a well paid, exciting job (the words of one of those interviewed).
    It's irrelevant what an individual thinks if it's undermining a whole sectors position in society. Take that approach and you'll end up with Italian tv.
  • Vino'sGhostVino'sGhost Posts: 4,320
    inseine wrote:
    Pross wrote:
    The interesting thing with the darts and F1 bans is no-one seems to have consulted the women who do the job and who, it seems, are upset at losing a well paid, exciting job (the words of one of those interviewed).
    It's irrelevant what an individual thinks if it's undermining a whole sectors position in society. Take that approach and you'll end up with Italian tv.
    So your position is that those individual womens opinon is irrelevant, you (a man) is deciding whats best for all women.
    :lol::lol::lol::lol:
    I suspect that most women are capable of thinking for themselves and possibly would like to have the choice about what they can and cannot do.
  • rick_chaseyrick_chasey Posts: 43,856 Lives Here
    So vino, let’s turn it the other way around.

    What’s the case FOR podium ‘girls’, since you seem so keen on them?
  • inseineinseine Posts: 5,655
    inseine wrote:
    Pross wrote:
    The interesting thing with the darts and F1 bans is no-one seems to have consulted the women who do the job and who, it seems, are upset at losing a well paid, exciting job (the words of one of those interviewed).
    It's irrelevant what an individual thinks if it's undermining a whole sectors position in society. Take that approach and you'll end up with Italian tv.
    So your position is that those individual womens opinon is irrelevant, you (a man) is deciding whats best for all women.
    :lol::lol::lol::lol:
    I suspect that most women are capable of thinking for themselves and possibly would like to have the choice about what they can and cannot do.
    It's not a case of me being a man or them women.
    You're OK with this? I'm sure the women weren't forced.
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  • bobmcstuffbobmcstuff Posts: 7,724
    /\ Christ, at least the podium girls are actually dressed. There's just no good reason for that.

    I probably fall on the sausage's side on this one, for all else they may do day to day, having part of the job description "be pretty in the vicinity of successful man" doesn't seem like the right thing to do. By all means keep the rest of it.

    I still think having local aspiring juniors present the prizes is a better idea.
  • Is the rights of the few women doing these anachronistic, gender / looks based, "exciting" jobs worth overriding the rights of the majority of women who suffers at the constant drip feeding of sexism, chauvinism and sexual assault/harassment at levels ranging from objectification through to Harvey Weinstein (according to the widely reported allegations if true)?

    Simple question but I suspect supporters of bikini clad female objects at male sporting events don't understand or recognise the issues within that question. Keep on dragging your knuckles guys one day the modern world will drag you into it's reach! :)
  • RichN95 wrote:
    salsiccia1 wrote:
    Fine, let's have races use both men and women to do the job.
    OK. Although I would suggest that it's a job women are better at. They tend be more personable.

    I'd have thought that by definition of only recruiting women to the podium host / sponsor liaison etc role, ASO et all are breaking some European employment law?
  • Do European employment laws apply in Italy and indeed France when it doesn't suit them? :wink:
  • There are two components to a podium girl's job, we only see the podium ceremony.
    But the first component - making old white men in the V.I.P. section comfortable - is just as sexist as the second. They're there to make sure the old geezers know when the bar is open, where the buffet is, maybe some fetch and carry or waiting etc. There's no reason they should have to be a slim pretty young woman to do that except that race organisers want some pretty young things as eye candy for the VIPs. They're pretty much employed to flirt with old white blokes and get leched over.
    “Road racing was over and the UCI had banned my riding positions on the track, so it was like ‘Jings, crivvens, help ma Boab, what do I do now? I know, I’ll go away and be depressed for 10 years’.”

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  • RichN95.RichN95. Posts: 22,562
    Is the rights of the few women doing these anachronistic, gender / looks based, "exciting" jobs worth overriding the rights of the majority of women who suffers at the constant drip feeding of sexism, chauvinism and sexual assault/harassment at levels ranging from objectification through to Harvey Weinstein (according to the widely reported allegations if true)?

    Simple question but I suspect supporters of bikini clad female objects at male sporting events don't understand or recognise the issues within that question. Keep on dragging your knuckles guys one day the modern world will drag you into it's reach! :)
    Firstly good looking women doing PR jobs is not the reason for Harvey Weinstein etc, Harvey Weinstein is. The blame for pervy men is 100% on the pervy men.

    Secondly, I don't think anyone is defending the wearing of bikinis - I'm certainly not. The dress code for the Tour de France is tasteful - give them a hat and they'd be allowed into the Royal Enclosure at Ascot
    Twitter: @RichN95
  • inseineinseine Posts: 5,655
    RichN95 wrote:
    Is the rights of the few women doing these anachronistic, gender / looks based, "exciting" jobs worth overriding the rights of the majority of women who suffers at the constant drip feeding of sexism, chauvinism and sexual assault/harassment at levels ranging from objectification through to Harvey Weinstein (according to the widely reported allegations if true)?

    Simple question but I suspect supporters of bikini clad female objects at male sporting events don't understand or recognise the issues within that question. Keep on dragging your knuckles guys one day the modern world will drag you into it's reach! :)
    Firstly good looking women doing PR jobs is not the reason for Harvey Weinstein etc, Harvey Weinstein is. The blame for pervy men is 100% on the pervy men.

    Secondly, I don't think anyone is defending the wearing of bikinis - I'm certainly not. The dress code for the Tour de France is tasteful - give them a hat and they'd be allowed into the Royal Enclosure at Ascot
    Still think you're on sticky ground. One mans bikini is another mans Ascot dress. It's a bit like the cases lately of women being forced to wear high heels. It's all about someone hiring someone else because they alike the way they look. Forget it if they don't find you attractive because you're too old, too short, too fat or don't have all the right bits in all the right places.
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