TDF 2017: 15th July - Blagnac - Rodez - 181.5kms *Spoilers*
Comments
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hypster wrote:mamba80 wrote:I agree with Pross, it is one thing preparing for the finish recce etc and making sure that you dont get caught out and can take adv of any mistakes but quite another to know that Aru or whoever would actually make these errors.
As i believe D.Millar said, once the pace went up, Aru didnt have the team to get him back up, i watched the live coverage and Aru's mistake was clearly made sometime before they got anywhere ne Rodez,, once they started that super fast descent, Aru's fate was sealed.
He did very well to only lose 24 sec's and finish 30th, he was almost last as they went into the town.
Michael Valgren - Astana
"I don’t know. Ask him. I tried to take him to the front, but he didn’t stick on my wheel. Did we lose the jersey?"
David Millar talks **** - shocker!
When Millar was talking, Aru didn't have anyone with him. Millar talks facts, shocker.
Whether someone tried to drag him back up to the front previously or not, Millar called it absolutely right at that moment in time. Also, if you're trying to move Aru up, you've already made a complete Horlicks of your job, which is to make sure he's already there. Astana failed well before the pace went up.0 -
mfin wrote:hypster wrote:Obviously Froome's tactics of attacking Aru several times on the final descent and run-in yesterday had more affect than some give credit for.
Attributing a significant toll on Aru to have come from the small amount of chasing on a descent and run-in yesterday by Froome is cloud cuckoo land thinking.
Is it? Sky have been softening Aru and Astana up for two days in the Pyrenees and that descent was just the coup de grace. Why do you think that Aru didn't chase down any of the breakaway by Landa/Contador/Quintana/Barguil. He was shagged that's why and why he couldn't hold his teammate's wheel today. He must be praying for the rest day on Monday.0 -
RichN95 wrote:I only saw the last four kilos in the pub on a phone. But I saw Froome and Kwiato and the front looking cool and I saw Aru at the back working his butt off trying to gain positions. Froome was 6th last time they did that finish - he knew what he was doing.
Yup better team, better planning, better awareness, more experience and treating it seriously. I like Aru but he and his team are outclassed despite his potential/0 -
hypster wrote:mfin wrote:hypster wrote:Obviously Froome's tactics of attacking Aru several times on the final descent and run-in yesterday had more affect than some give credit for.
Attributing a significant toll on Aru to have come from the small amount of chasing on a descent and run-in yesterday by Froome is cloud cuckoo land thinking.
Is it?
Yeah.0 -
hypster wrote:mfin wrote:hypster wrote:Obviously Froome's tactics of attacking Aru several times on the final descent and run-in yesterday had more affect than some give credit for.
Attributing a significant toll on Aru to have come from the small amount of chasing on a descent and run-in yesterday by Froome is cloud cuckoo land thinking.
Is it? Sky have been softening Aru and Astana up for two days in the Pyrenees and that descent was just the coup de grace. Why do you think that Aru didn't chase down any of the breakaway by Landa/Contador/Quintana/Barguil. He was shagged that's why and why he couldn't hold his teammate's wheel today. He must be praying for the rest day on Monday.
I don't think Aru was physically shot, and certainly not because of a couple of speculative digs that weren't hugely pressed home the day before. Nobody rode him off their wheels today.
There's a stronger argument that the last couple of days left him mentally fatigued. That might be a causal factor for not being at the sharp end.0 -
It's a bit fanciful to attribute today to Froome having a couple of digs on a descent yesterday.
My guess would be he's just not great at holding a position in the bunch - the battle for positions looked pretty full on.[Castle Donington Ladies FC - going up in '22]0 -
mfin wrote:hypster wrote:mfin wrote:hypster wrote:Obviously Froome's tactics of attacking Aru several times on the final descent and run-in yesterday had more affect than some give credit for.
Attributing a significant toll on Aru to have come from the small amount of chasing on a descent and run-in yesterday by Froome is cloud cuckoo land thinking.
Is it?
Yeah.
Very witty Wilde.0 -
RichN95 wrote:On a completely different point, I'm enjoying Gary Imlach's constant annoyance at Froome delaying the presentations with his warm downs.
ITV have a slightly irreverent attitude towards the tour, I think. I quite like the running joke with Ned innocently asking if David Millar happens to know anything about a particular chateau, at which point the latter provides the tourist spiel from the organisers. It's not particularly amusing as a gag, but it does imply that they have exactly the same response to the traditional coverage style as the rest of us.0 -
Not sure what everyone was expecting from Aru/Astana. They've had a really bad year, specially in the climbing department. They sadly lost Scarponi, Tiralongo has retired, Kangert had that horrendous crash in the Giro. Cataldo and Fuglsang have had to abandon. Aru has recently returned from injury and was not originally going to the Tour. Lopez has just returned from injury and did well in the Tour of Austria.
I bet their pretty chuffed at winning a stage and having the yellow jersey for a couple of days. No way was Aru going to take it all the way to Paris. That said, the pressure of defending the leaders jersey is now gone, but a podium would still be quite an achievement.
Sky on the other hand really can't lose.0 -
SecretSqirrel wrote:Not sure what everyone was expecting from Aru/Astana. They've had a really bad year, specially in the climbing department. They sadly lost Scarponi, Tiralongo has retired, Kangert had that horrendous crash in the Giro. Cataldo and Fuglsang have had to abandon. Aru has recently returned from injury and was not originally going to the Tour. Lopez has just returned from injury and did well in the Tour of Austria.
I bet their pretty chuffed at winning a stage and having the yellow jersey for a couple of days. No way was Aru going to take it all the way to Paris. That said, the pressure of defending the leaders jersey is now gone, but a podium would still be quite an achievement.
Sky on the other hand really can't lose.
I think Aru could still win this.
Even if he couldn't, I think the manner in which he's handed it over is going to hurt. It's one thing to not have the legs on the final climb, or to be done over in a TT. To surrender the lead on a sprinty stage when you weren't even close to the position you should have been...0 -
inseine wrote:
Quintana and Bennet lost 21 seconds, Landa 14Pross wrote:inseine wrote:
And good by SKY? I know it sticks on the throatRichmond Racer 2 wrote:that was poor from Astana
It was just obvious by Sky, most of the other GC contenders lost little or no time. I know Aru's team is weakened but you would have expected them to protect him better than that and even if not I'd have thought Aru would have glued himself to one of his rivals with a strong team (QS would have been a good choice on a like this).
Landa is just a domestique, Quintana had been considered out of contention anyway before yesterday and no-one thought Bennet actually existed until Thursday 0 -
inseine wrote:Did I mishear Luke Rowe or did he suggest Aru might want to loose the jersey.
My thought as it was happening. This simplifies things for Aru. Landa can no longer attack up the road as he'd be attacking his own teams yellow jersey, and is now back working for Froome. Froome now has to cover all attacks from Bardet/Uran/Aru/Martin (not to mention speculative long ones from Contador and Quintana) who are all closer than usual at this stage. While Froome looked good the last two days he has looked weaker in high mountains and Aru strong.
Aru has no team to help him control the race, so give the jersey away, sit on Froome while he is attacked by all and sundry then take big time out on the Izoard and hope to hold on in the TT.
I think he has pulled a really good tactical move here.
Either that or he is a complete div and got caught out of position.0 -
Isn't Tiralongo part of the Astana DS team now, so still assists if in a different way.SecretSqirrel wrote:Not sure what everyone was expecting from Aru/Astana. They've had a really bad year, ...Tiralongo has retired, ...0 -
Cozzie wrote:inseine wrote:Did I mishear Luke Rowe or did he suggest Aru might want to loose the jersey.
My thought as it was happening. This simplifies things for Aru. Landa can no longer attack up the road as he'd be attacking his own teams yellow jersey, and is now back working for Froome. Froome now has to cover all attacks from Bardet/Uran/Aru/Martin (not to mention speculative long ones from Contador and Quintana) who are all closer than usual at this stage. While Froome looked good the last two days he has looked weaker in high mountains and Aru strong.
Aru has no team to help him control the race, so give the jersey away, sit on Froome while he is attacked by all and sundry then take big time out on the Izoard and hope to hold on in the TT.
I think he has pulled a really good tactical move here.
Either that or he is a complete div and got caught out of position.
He'd have to take 90 seconds on the Izoard - if he could do that then wouldn't he already be well ahead?[Castle Donington Ladies FC - going up in '22]0 -
Froome was still in virtual yellow anyway given his TT advantage. No way Aru deliberately gave away yellow today, all that would have achieved is giving Sky and Froome a massive confidence boost, extra seconds to play with if Froome has a tricky stage end and a bigger reserve for the TT. Only the internet could come up with that sort of theory!2015 Canyon Nerve AL 6.0 (son #1's)
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knedlicky wrote:
Poulidor in the French media believes Aru feigned weakness and purposely lost the jersey.inseine wrote:Did I mishear Luke Rowe or did he suggest Aru might want to loose the jersey.
Not sure how well Poulidor knows modern cycling and its riders, though.
Too late to be giving away 25 seconds on purpose, if that is what he's done. Stage 17 looks like the only one where Aru has saved himself any strife. Other than that I don't see any benefit not being in yellow. Stage 18 will surely be a straight watts/kg shoot out up the Izoard.0 -
It is insanity to think that Aru lost the jersey on purpose. Only a tinfoil hat mentalist would get behind such a theory.0
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In the tour people don't just lose the race lead for shits and giggles.0
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knedlicky wrote:
Isn't Tiralongo part of the Astana DS team now, so still assists if in a different way.SecretSqirrel wrote:Not sure what everyone was expecting from Aru/Astana. They've had a really bad year, ...Tiralongo has retired, ...
Yes, the old man does bottle duty from the car now
25 secs was too much to lose. Aru might have had his off day, better than having it in a mountain stage where he may have lost minutes. Attacking suits him better than defending and with Bardet and Uran on the same mission I'm hoping the race is still alive.0 -
Yes, giving away the jersey and having to cede almost half a minute in the process, to a far superior time trialist, is really an excellent tactical strategy. :roll:
Why bother to put a huge effort in to take it in the first place?
Some folks seem to think the leader's jersey comes from Marks and Spencer."Science is a tool for cheaters". An anonymous French PE teacher.0 -
Quintana quoted as saying that he didn't want to battle alongside the bigger guys in the finish yday and preferred to play it safe
That's Quintana in a nutshell0 -
SecretSqirrel wrote:knedlicky wrote:
Isn't Tiralongo part of the Astana DS team now, so still assists if in a different way.SecretSqirrel wrote:Not sure what everyone was expecting from Aru/Astana. They've had a really bad year, ...Tiralongo has retired, ...
Yes, the old man does bottle duty from the car now
25 secs was too much to lose. Aru might have had his off day, better than having it in a mountain stage where he may have lost minutes. Attacking suits him better than defending and with Bardet and Uran on the same mission I'm hoping the race is still alive.
If there's any chance Aru is weakened then Bardet and Uran will be on a mission to put him out of the competition early. Might spark some fireworks early in the stage as they try to find out, but I suspect this one will neutralise itself.0 -
Richmond Racer 2 wrote:Quintana quoted as saying that he didn't want to battle alongside the bigger guys in the finish yday and preferred to play it safe
That's Quintana in a nutshell
Yeah what utter rubbish
That was smart by Froome and sky. I remember Froome sharing in an interview that this tour would be tight and that they'd have to look to every opportunity to take time. Yesterday was a prime example of this.0 -
knedlicky wrote:
Poulidor in the French media believes Aru feigned weakness and purposely lost the jersey.inseine wrote:Did I mishear Luke Rowe or did he suggest Aru might want to loose the jersey.
Not sure how well Poulidor knows modern cycling and its riders, though.
Might explain why he was always second!0 -
Astana have a plan so cunning you could put a tail on it.........0
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underlayunderlay wrote:SecretSqirrel wrote:knedlicky wrote:
Isn't Tiralongo part of the Astana DS team now, so still assists if in a different way.SecretSqirrel wrote:Not sure what everyone was expecting from Aru/Astana. They've had a really bad year, ...Tiralongo has retired, ...
Yes, the old man does bottle duty from the car now
25 secs was too much to lose. Aru might have had his off day, better than having it in a mountain stage where he may have lost minutes. Attacking suits him better than defending and with Bardet and Uran on the same mission I'm hoping the race is still alive.
If there's any chance Aru is weakened then Bardet and Uran will be on a mission to put him out of the competition early. Might spark some fireworks early in the stage as they try to find out, but I suspect this one will neutralise itself.
Agreed. All three are in the same position, if they get can get each other out of the picture they will. This is the fight for a podium place. The race is is Froome's to lose.0 -
I worry about Rigo's bad day. He usually has one.0
