Vuelta 2017 line up.

hypster

I seem to remember Simon attacking on a couple of stages at least. Over the top of the last climb on stage 15 and La Planche de Belle Filles (maybe) ? As Uran did absolutely no attacking whatsoever Yates 2 / Uran 0 = Infinity times better.

rick_chasey

hypster wrote:

I seem to remember Simon attacking on a couple of stages at least. Over the top of the last climb on stage 15 and La Planche de Belle Filles (maybe) ? As Uran did absolutely no attacking whatsoever Yates 2 / Uran 0 = Infinity times better.

Uran won a stage.

RonB

That long TTT might make for some intersting choices though, in terms of domestiques.

hypster

Rick Chasey wrote:

hypster wrote:

I seem to remember Simon attacking on a couple of stages at least. Over the top of the last climb on stage 15 and La Planche de Belle Filles (maybe) ? As Uran did absolutely no attacking whatsoever Yates 2 / Uran 0 = Infinity times better.

Uran won a stage.

After holding on to the Mavic service car for about a minute while a mechanic (illegally incidentally) changed gears for him.

That wasn't my point anyway, my point was in answer to the previous poster who was implying that Yates was a wheelsucker.

rick_chasey

Christ, do you lot want the entire Tour to be ridden as a TT?

Wheelsucking literally the entire point of cycle racing. Without that it's totally w*nk.

That's why most people only watch the individual pursuit once every 4 years.

hypster

Rick Chasey wrote:

Christ, do you lot want the entire Tour to be ridden as a TT?

Wheelsucking literally the entire point of cycle racing. Without that it's totally w*nk.

That's why most people only watch the individual pursuit once every 4 years.

Are you replyingto me? Because apart from your point about Uran, I agree with you.

m.r.m.

I wish my man Kwiatkowski would only ride the Vuelta as training if at all (and if such a thing is possible at Sky) and focus on World's and possibly Lombardia!

timoid.

Rick Chasey wrote:

What, beyond sitting last wheel of the favourites group in any mountain stage?

Ha ha. My thoughts exactly.

I still really like the Yates brothers. Come across really well.

professeur

hypster wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

hypster wrote:

I seem to remember Simon attacking on a couple of stages at least. Over the top of the last climb on stage 15 and La Planche de Belle Filles (maybe) ? As Uran did absolutely no attacking whatsoever Yates 2 / Uran 0 = Infinity times better.

Uran won a stage.

After holding on to the Mavic service car for about a minute while a mechanic (illegally incidentally) changed gears for him.

That wasn't my point anyway, my point was in answer to the previous poster who was implying that Yates was a wheelsucker.

Ah, the underlying subtext of this forum: brave British lads and the foreign cheaters...

EDIT: not a personal dig, just the feeling I get when I read these boards often

blazing_saddles

professeur wrote:

hypster wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

hypster wrote:

I seem to remember Simon attacking on a couple of stages at least. Over the top of the last climb on stage 15 and La Planche de Belle Filles (maybe) ? As Uran did absolutely no attacking whatsoever Yates 2 / Uran 0 = Infinity times better.

Uran won a stage.

After holding on to the Mavic service car for about a minute while a mechanic (illegally incidentally) changed gears for him.

That wasn't my point anyway, my point was in answer to the previous poster who was implying that Yates was a wheelsucker.

Ah, the underlying subtext of this forum: brave British lads and the foreign cheaters...

EDIT: not a personal dig, just the feeling I get when I read these boards often

I don't see anybody agreeing with that criticism of Uran and as I recall, everybody at the time was super impressed that Uran accomplished what he did with a bent derailleur.
Rather an outspoken POV, I would say.

hypster

Blazing Saddles wrote:

professeur wrote:

hypster wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

hypster wrote:

I seem to remember Simon attacking on a couple of stages at least. Over the top of the last climb on stage 15 and La Planche de Belle Filles (maybe) ? As Uran did absolutely no attacking whatsoever Yates 2 / Uran 0 = Infinity times better.

Uran won a stage.

After holding on to the Mavic service car for about a minute while a mechanic (illegally incidentally) changed gears for him.

That wasn't my point anyway, my point was in answer to the previous poster who was implying that Yates was a wheelsucker.

Ah, the underlying subtext of this forum: brave British lads and the foreign cheaters...

EDIT: not a personal dig, just the feeling I get when I read these boards often

I don't see anybody agreeing with that criticism of Uran and as I recall, everybody at the time was super impressed that Uran accomplished what he did with a bent derailleur.
Rather an outspoken POV, I would say.

I cribbed that comment about Uran holding on to the Mavic car from another poster on here a while back. Also the illegal changing of gears by the mechanic from another forum where they actually quoted the UCI rule number covering it but I can't remember which forum. I did a search but can't find it I'm afraid otherwise I would post the link.

The whole point is what tainted this Tour somewhat is the arbitrary way the commissaires chose to enforce the rules at almost every juncture not the fact that any particular rider cheated as such. A lot of people admired Uran's tenancious tactics but personally I just think he was a twicer. I fully admit that that is just my subjective view of him and it's not a verdict on Johnny Foreigner compared to Simon Yates for instance. I thought Bardet and Barguil were immense and would sooner have seen Bardet hold on to second place than Uran.

TheBigBean

I was supporting Uran near the end as all Team My Man had fallen by the wayside. He looked very strong and it is disappointing that he didn't have a dig. Ultimately, he was riding for second, and he achieved that, but I do think he should face a bit of criticism.

Edit - wrong thread for this.

tailwindhome

hypster wrote:

A lot of people admired Uran's tenancious tactics but personally I just think he was a twicer..

What's a twicer?

hypster

TailWindHome wrote:

hypster wrote:

A lot of people admired Uran's tenancious tactics but personally I just think he was a twicer..

What's a twicer?

Not sure what the derivation is but it's used within my circle of family and friends to denote someone who's a bit dodgy. Probably a bit strong of me to describe Uran as that as he did nothing wrong but I just dropped into the vernacular and meant nothing malicious, I just didn't admire his tactics.

Probably best to end this line now as it's completely off-topic for this thread.

jimmythecuckoo

Looking forward to this but not wishing the time away as there is some decent stuff between then and now.

Artic Race of Norway being the highlight.

DeVlaeminck

Rick Chasey wrote:

hypster wrote:

I seem to remember Simon attacking on a couple of stages at least. Over the top of the last climb on stage 15 and La Planche de Belle Filles (maybe) ? As Uran did absolutely no attacking whatsoever Yates 2 / Uran 0 = Infinity times better.

Uran won a stage.

I think with both Yates brothers and Uran you can understand them sitting in because their ambitions coming to the Tour in the last couple of years were probably not to win it or even make the podium. As a fan I don't want to see it but if it were me I might do the same, though in Uran's case once he found himself so close to yellow in the last week I'm surprised he didn't risk more.

Now all 3 have a bit of pressure on them to make that next step - Uran has been here before of course and gone backwards but he's earned another shot at it. As far as the Yates' goes challenging for a Giro or Vuelta is probably what I'd like to see - I'm assuming the team rate a fit Chaves as their best GC rider and he'll go for the Tour. The issue is going to be if they are pressed into domestique duties for Chaves how that affects their own ambitions - I guess they may each lead a grand tour and work for Chaves at the Tour. Adam has also shown himself as a capable one day rider so that may come into the equation.

phreak

We're kind of assuming that riders had plenty in reserve but were too conservative and hence didn't attack. Given that the whole Sky tactic in the mountains is to ride a consistently high tempo precisely to discourage attacks, I'm more inclined to think that the majority just didn't have the legs to do anything but hang onto the train for as long as possible.

bobmcstuff

Both Yates' Tours have been about learning and gaining experience of racing for 3 weeks (so says Matt White in every interview) so they've probably been told to stick with the GC riders as long as possible at this stage, making an attack towards the end if they're feeling good. If they attacked a lot early on and ended up shagging themselves for the 3rd week that wouldn't be very helpful when it comes to gaining experience of racing for 3 weeks.

I think both have proven themselves to be attacking riders in the past so hopefully we will see them doing a bit more of that in future.

DeVlaeminck

phreak wrote:

We're kind of assuming that riders had plenty in reserve but were too conservative and hence didn't attack. Given that the whole Sky tactic in the mountains is to ride a consistently high tempo precisely to discourage attacks, I'm more inclined to think that the majority just didn't have the legs to do anything but hang onto the train for as long as possible.

It's a fair point but often unless you attack you don't really know if you have more left than the other guy. When Froome cracked on that finale I bet he was suffering earlier and more time could have been taken - I accept there is a chance he may have found a second wind and ridden back up to them too. Uran seemed to have something left on the Izoard, he closed Froome down, he rarely seemed to be in trouble during the race so Inthink it's fair to think he might have risked more. Yates perhaps not, he was off the back plenty of times when things kicked off.

gsk82

DeVlaeminck wrote:

phreak wrote:

We're kind of assuming that riders had plenty in reserve but were too conservative and hence didn't attack. Given that the whole Sky tactic in the mountains is to ride a consistently high tempo precisely to discourage attacks, I'm more inclined to think that the majority just didn't have the legs to do anything but hang onto the train for as long as possible.

It's a fair point but often unless you attack you don't really know if you have more left than the other guy. When Froome cracked on that finale I bet he was suffering earlier and more time could have been taken - I accept there is a chance he may have found a second wind and ridden back up to them too. Uran seemed to have something left on the Izoard, he closed Froome down, he rarely seemed to be in trouble during the race so Inthink it's fair to think he might have risked more. Yates perhaps not, he was off the back plenty of times when things kicked off.

Uran closed the gap on a flatter section of the izoard after following bardet, then lost time at the finish.

milton50

professeur wrote:

Ah, the underlying subtext of this forum: brave British lads and the foreign cheaters...

EDIT: not a personal dig, just the feeling I get when I read these boards often

I think you would get the same impression from reading a French or Italian cycling forum.

DeVlaeminck

gsk82 wrote:

DeVlaeminck wrote:

phreak wrote:

We're kind of assuming that riders had plenty in reserve but were too conservative and hence didn't attack. Given that the whole Sky tactic in the mountains is to ride a consistently high tempo precisely to discourage attacks, I'm more inclined to think that the majority just didn't have the legs to do anything but hang onto the train for as long as possible.

It's a fair point but often unless you attack you don't really know if you have more left than the other guy. When Froome cracked on that finale I bet he was suffering earlier and more time could have been taken - I accept there is a chance he may have found a second wind and ridden back up to them too. Uran seemed to have something left on the Izoard, he closed Froome down, he rarely seemed to be in trouble during the race so Inthink it's fair to think he might have risked more. Yates perhaps not, he was off the back plenty of times when things kicked off.

Uran closed the gap on a flatter section of the izoard after following bardet, then lost time at the finish.

He was about a second or two behind Froome in an anaerobic effort - I don't think that's really significant in terms of how fresh they were it's effectively an uphill sprint finish - you could lose that in a missed gear chamge.

dinyull

Froome sounded pretty ominous in interview with Matt Rendell in Paris.

Said something along the lines of being absolutely on track to do the Tour Vuelta double, came across (to me at least) like he still thinks his form is yet to peak.

timoid.

Dinyull wrote:

Froome sounded pretty ominous in interview with Matt Rendell in Paris.

Said something along the lines of being absolutely on track to do the Tour Vuelta double, came across (to me at least) like he still thinks his form is yet to peak.

That 2012 Vuelta still bugs him.

If he gets it, he might go for the set. Probably not til 2019 though.

ic.

Dinyull wrote:

Froome sounded pretty ominous in interview with Matt Rendell in Paris.

Said something along the lines of being absolutely on track to do the Tour Vuelta double, came across (to me at least) like he still thinks his form is yet to peak.

I've been thinking it all year. 2017 is about the double. He went easy for the first half of the year, built towards a peak in the Tour's 3rd week then on to the Vuelta. I'm hoping it's the reason behind the lack of serious attacks in the Tour's MTFs, that he's got one eye on the Vuelta so why go into the red when he had the TT to come anyway. Risky little game, sure. Part 2 of the plan could be to have a fully fit and rested Poels as his main dom in the Vuelta

yourpaceormine

jimmythecuckoo wrote:

Looking forward to this but not wishing the time away as there is some decent stuff between then and now.

Artic Race of Norway being the highlight.

Race commentary of ARoN on Twitter is usually quite entertaining.

bobmcstuff

IC. wrote:

Dinyull wrote:

Froome sounded pretty ominous in interview with Matt Rendell in Paris.

Said something along the lines of being absolutely on track to do the Tour Vuelta double, came across (to me at least) like he still thinks his form is yet to peak.

I've been thinking it all year. 2017 is about the double. He went easy for the first half of the year, built towards a peak in the Tour's 3rd week then on to the Vuelta. I'm hoping it's the reason behind the lack of serious attacks in the Tour's MTFs, that he's got one eye on the Vuelta so why go into the red when he had the TT to come anyway. Risky little game, sure. Part 2 of the plan could be to have a fully fit and rested Poels as his main dom in the Vuelta

I agree with this (although not so much hoping, it's just what I think)

Anyway the Vuelta looks fairly open apart from Froome, it could be a good race.

Given how much the Tour ended up coming down to the two TTs, you have to wonder how Dumoulin in his Giro form would have fared (some season Sunweb are having right?).

m.r.m.

Dumoulin would have given Froome a good run, but in order for him to win the second TT would have had to be longer.

FocusZing

“The Vuelta is a race I love racing,” Froome said. “It’s a vicious race but it’s three weeks that I enjoy. I’ve come second three times now and I’d love to win the Vuelta. To win the Tour and the Vuelta in one year would be absolutely incredible. I’ve got that opportunity now and I’m certainly going to go for it.”

Victory would make Froome - who trained to peak late in the Tour, partly with the Vuelta in mind - not only the first Briton ever to win Spain’s national tour but only the third rider in history to manage the Tour-Vuelta double after Jacques Anquetil in 1963 and Bernard Hinault in 1978.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/cycling/2017 ... e-history/

timoid.

FocusZing wrote:

The double hasn't been done since 1995.

Don't think it's been done since 1978 (Hinault)