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Public Sector 1% Pay Rise Cap - Why Are There No Protests?

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  • surrey_commutersurrey_commuter Posts: 11,484
    Mr Goo wrote:
    Mr Goo wrote:
    This thread started off quite well has sadly deviated and descended into an economics and political argument witha side of discussion.

    The question is WHY DON'T THE BRITISH PUBLIC STAND UP FOR WHAT THEY THINK IS RIGHT AND DEMONSTRATE AND MARCH EN MASS FOR INJUSTICE ? 1% PAY CAP FOR PUBLIC SECTOR WORKERS AT THIS EXTENDED LENGTH IS A GROSS INJUSTICE. WHY ARE WE AS A NATION SO SUBSERVIENT AND COW TOWED BY THOSE IN POWER?

    So your wife works in the NHS and you think she deserves a payrise to increase your household income. Separately you can't be ar5ed to work harder and earn more money.

    and then you wonder why people can't be ar5ed to go on a march so others can increase their household income

    Ooooo. That's barbed.
    So you think it fair that public sector workers havent even had a cost of living rise in last half dozen plus years. Yet MP's (public employees) have been getting 6 to 7 %. So just about what's wrong with this country. why compare to MPs? why not compare to private sector? and when you do include the value of the pension


    And I'll add this. No MD/Director or boss should earn more than 3 to 4 times that of their lowest paid employee.

    I'm not a commie or socialist I believe in free market but I believe that the wealth should be spread for all to benefit.
    I may be missing something
    And as for me not being arsed to work harder. I have done management work, looking after staff and found that it wasn't for me. Does that make me a slacker then.? Must remember that when I get up at 4 in the morning for a business trip to Penzance.

    it was you who said he could not be arsed to earn more money
  • Stevo_666Stevo_666 Posts: 42,232
    Mr Goo wrote:
    This thread started off quite well has sadly deviated and descended into an economics and political argument witha side of discussion.

    The question is WHY DON'T THE BRITISH PUBLIC STAND UP FOR WHAT THEY THINK IS RIGHT AND DEMONSTRATE AND MARCH EN MASS FOR INJUSTICE ? 1% PAY CAP FOR PUBLIC SECTOR WORKERS AT THIS EXTENDED LENGTH IS A GROSS INJUSTICE. WHY ARE WE AS A NATION SO SUBSERVIENT AND COW TOWED BY THOSE IN POWER?
    I've also answered your question earlier showing how public sector pay is still on average ahead of private sector pay.

    I'll also add that maybe people realise that it is a case of striking a balance between the interests of public sector workers and those who pay for them (to paraphrase the government before anybody jumps in on that). Or perhaps more importantly maybe people realise that to the extent we have to borrow more to pay for this, it is 'kicking the can down the road' for our children to pay for in future, which IMO is selfish.
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  • kingrollokingrollo Posts: 3,147
    My NHS pension costs me £200 pm - and the current forecast is that when I am 66 I will get £12k pa - & £20k lump sum - My gross salary is well under £30k.

    I stay because I like the job - and I feel to old to start over. I would say though that staff renention is becoming a real problem in the NHS. Ive recruited for one post coming for 5 times since 2010 - the reason they leave is always the salary.

    So begrudge us the 1% at your peril - it might keep costs down, but you get what you pay for.
  • kingstongrahamkingstongraham Posts: 12,051
    kingrollo wrote:
    My NHS pension costs me £200 pm - and the current forecast is that when I am 66 I will get £12k pa - & £20k lump sum - My gross salary is well under £30k.

    I stay because I like the job - and I feel to old to start over. I would say though that staff renention is becoming a real problem in the NHS. Ive recruited for one post coming for 5 times since 2010 - the reason they leave is always the salary.

    So begrudge us the 1% at your peril - it might keep costs down, but you get what you pay for.

    If it's index linked, that's about a £400,000 annuity cost currently.

    I don't begrudge you getting inflation linked pay increases at all, it would be entirely fair. It's just that 1% is the same as lots of the rest of us have been getting so isn't going to bring people out onto the streets.

    It has way more impact you saying that you can't get people to work for these wages and care is suffering because of it.
  • kingrollokingrollo Posts: 3,147
    kingrollo wrote:
    My NHS pension costs me £200 pm - and the current forecast is that when I am 66 I will get £12k pa - & £20k lump sum - My gross salary is well under £30k.

    I stay because I like the job - and I feel to old to start over. I would say though that staff renention is becoming a real problem in the NHS. Ive recruited for one post coming for 5 times since 2010 - the reason they leave is always the salary.

    So begrudge us the 1% at your peril - it might keep costs down, but you get what you pay for.

    If it's index linked, that's about a £400,000 annuity cost currently.

    I don't begrudge you getting inflation linked pay increases at all, it would be entirely fair. It's just that 1% is the same as lots of the rest of us have been getting so isn't going to bring people out onto the streets.

    It has way more impact you saying that you can't get people to work for these wages and care is suffering because of it.

    As an aside what does that mean in laymans terms ? - With the pensions chopping and changing so much Im never sure Im getting a good deal or not.

    I never worry to much about wages (if you want more move jobs ) - But IME we have now got to a stage where all the best staff have left
  • kingstongrahamkingstongraham Posts: 12,051
    kingrollo wrote:
    If it's index linked, that's about a £400,000 annuity cost currently.

    As an aside what does that mean in laymans terms ? - With the pensions chopping and changing so much Im never sure Im getting a good deal or not.

    You can get it a bit cheaper than I said. If you wanted an annuity which guaranteed you £12,000 annual income, which rises with inflation, and you are 66, you would need to have a pension pot of about £330,000.

    Plus your £20k lump sum, this means to get the same level of pension without it being guaranteed by your employer, you would have need to have saved £350,000 by the time you retire.
  • surrey_commutersurrey_commuter Posts: 11,484
    kingrollo wrote:
    If it's index linked, that's about a £400,000 annuity cost currently.

    As an aside what does that mean in laymans terms ? - With the pensions chopping and changing so much Im never sure Im getting a good deal or not.

    You can get it a bit cheaper than I said. If you wanted an annuity which guaranteed you £12,000 annual income, which rises with inflation, and you are 66, you would need to have a pension pot of about £330,000.

    Plus your £20k lump sum, this means to get the same level of pension without it being guaranteed by your employer, you would have need to have saved £350,000 by the time you retire.

    less technically - you are getting a deal far superior to 90% of people in the private sector
  • BelgianBeerGeekBelgianBeerGeek Posts: 5,230
    OK. As a humble civil servant, the impression I am getting is that 1% as a cap is something envied in the wider, private sector. And yet you bravely toil on, tugging your forelock to the boss who arrives in his Rolls :wink:
    So all this talk of our pay rises falling behind the private sector is all BS? I am genuinely interested, and wonder, if that is the case, why you lot aren't falling over yourselves to get a cushy public sector job with the amazing pension that goes with it?
    Ecrasez l’infame
  • kingstongrahamkingstongraham Posts: 12,051
    OK. As a humble civil servant, the impression I am getting is that 1% as a cap is something envied in the wider, private sector. And yet you bravely toil on, tugging your forelock to the boss who arrives in his Rolls :wink:
    So all this talk of our pay rises falling behind the private sector is all BS? I am genuinely interested, and wonder, if that is the case, why you lot aren't falling over yourselves to get a cushy public sector job with the amazing pension that goes with it?

    I think that if there remains a 1% cap, your rises are about to start falling behind the private sector.

    It's a balance, isn't it? The pension isn't generally as good in the private sector, but the wages are generally higher. Comparing the pay without looking at the pension benefit is not a fair comparison.

    Also, it sounds like there's a lot of unions and paper work, and I can't be bothered with that.
  • kingrollokingrollo Posts: 3,147
    kingrollo wrote:
    If it's index linked, that's about a £400,000 annuity cost currently.

    As an aside what does that mean in laymans terms ? - With the pensions chopping and changing so much Im never sure Im getting a good deal or not.

    You can get it a bit cheaper than I said. If you wanted an annuity which guaranteed you £12,000 annual income, which rises with inflation, and you are 66, you would need to have a pension pot of about £330,000.

    Plus your £20k lump sum, this means to get the same level of pension without it being guaranteed by your employer, you would have need to have saved £350,000 by the time you retire.

    less technically - you are getting a deal far superior to 90% of people in the private sector


    Really ? - Because for a lot of my working life I was in this private sector - and its those pensions I am banking on to keep me in my old age. I was earning more but I felt as through I was contributing less as a % . These pensions are worth more than my NHS one - which I am considering dropping TBH.
  • kingrollokingrollo Posts: 3,147
    kingrollo wrote:
    kingrollo wrote:
    If it's index linked, that's about a £400,000 annuity cost currently.

    As an aside what does that mean in laymans terms ? - With the pensions chopping and changing so much Im never sure Im getting a good deal or not.

    You can get it a bit cheaper than I said. If you wanted an annuity which guaranteed you £12,000 annual income, which rises with inflation, and you are 66, you would need to have a pension pot of about £330,000.

    Plus your £20k lump sum, this means to get the same level of pension without it being guaranteed by your employer, you would have need to have saved £350,000 by the time you retire.

    less technically - you are getting a deal far superior to 90% of people in the private sector


    Really ? - Because for a lot of my working life I was in this private sector - and its those pensions I am banking on to keep me in my old age. I was earning more but I felt as through I was contributing less as a % . These pensions are worth more than my NHS one - which I am considering dropping TBH.
    Edit - Ive always worked for big companies - so I suppose they offer better pensions as more people are in them - either public or private.

  • kingstongrahamkingstongraham Posts: 12,051
    kingrollo wrote:
    kingrollo wrote:
    If it's index linked, that's about a £400,000 annuity cost currently.

    As an aside what does that mean in laymans terms ? - With the pensions chopping and changing so much Im never sure Im getting a good deal or not.

    You can get it a bit cheaper than I said. If you wanted an annuity which guaranteed you £12,000 annual income, which rises with inflation, and you are 66, you would need to have a pension pot of about £330,000.

    Plus your £20k lump sum, this means to get the same level of pension without it being guaranteed by your employer, you would have need to have saved £350,000 by the time you retire.

    less technically - you are getting a deal far superior to 90% of people in the private sector


    Really ? - Because for a lot of my working life I was in this private sector - and its those pensions I am banking on to keep me in my old age. I was earning more but I felt as through I was contributing less as a % . These pensions are worth more than my NHS one - which I am considering dropping TBH.

    That was then, this is now. I have a little bit of a defined benefit pension started 20 years ago, which now feels very generous. You cannot get a defined benefit pension pretty much anywhere in the private sector now. You need to save up money, and you'd need to save up £350,000 to get the same benefit from any scheme that is now the norm in the private sector. Some of that may be paid into the savings by the employer, some by the employee.
  • kingrollokingrollo Posts: 3,147
    kingrollo wrote:
    kingrollo wrote:
    If it's index linked, that's about a £400,000 annuity cost currently.

    As an aside what does that mean in laymans terms ? - With the pensions chopping and changing so much Im never sure Im getting a good deal or not.

    You can get it a bit cheaper than I said. If you wanted an annuity which guaranteed you £12,000 annual income, which rises with inflation, and you are 66, you would need to have a pension pot of about £330,000.

    Plus your £20k lump sum, this means to get the same level of pension without it being guaranteed by your employer, you would have need to have saved £350,000 by the time you retire.

    less technically - you are getting a deal far superior to 90% of people in the private sector


    Really ? - Because for a lot of my working life I was in this private sector - and its those pensions I am banking on to keep me in my old age. I was earning more but I felt as through I was contributing less as a % . These pensions are worth more than my NHS one - which I am considering dropping TBH.

    That was then, this is now. I have a little bit of a defined benefit pension started 20 years ago, which now feels very generous. You cannot get a defined benefit pension pretty much anywhere in the private sector now. You need to save up money, and you'd need to save up £350,000 to get the same benefit from any scheme that is now the norm in the private sector. Some of that may be paid into the savings by the employer, some by the employee.

    So private sector pensions were better historically ? - That would fit in with my experience - however as I said I earned more in the private sector so the pension is a lot bigger - I don't ever recall paying what I pay now though.

    My young sons are now approaching working age - and have asked about opportunities within the NHS - Ive told them to look elsewhere - even if the pension is better (which is very debatable IME) I wouldn't steer them into the public sector just for a good pension - the cons outweigh the pro's IMO - and there is that much tampering with PS pensions - you can never really be sure what you are paying into....
  • kingstongrahamkingstongraham Posts: 12,051
    kingrollo wrote:
    So private sector pensions were better historically ? - That would fit in with my experience - however as I said I earned more in the private sector so the pension is a lot bigger - I don't ever recall paying what I pay now though.

    My young sons are now approaching working age - and have asked about opportunities within the NHS - Ive told them to look elsewhere - even if the pension is better (which is very debatable IME) I wouldn't steer them into the public sector just for a good pension - the cons outweigh the pro's IMO - and there is that much tampering with PS pensions - you can never really be sure what you are paying into....

    Absolutely private sector pensions were better historically than now. The result is that now BA has long been described as a massive pension fund with an airline attached. That won't happen for newer companies, as there is no long term liability for companies from defined contribution based pensions.

    There will be tampering with the public sector pensions - at the moment it is not debatable that yours is better than most in the private sector, but that can't be guaranteed for all new entrants as politics changes and demographics change.

    You are unfortunately not "paying into" anything as far as I know. The pension will be paid out of your sons' taxes.
  • kingrollokingrollo Posts: 3,147
    kingrollo wrote:
    So private sector pensions were better historically ? - That would fit in with my experience - however as I said I earned more in the private sector so the pension is a lot bigger - I don't ever recall paying what I pay now though.

    My young sons are now approaching working age - and have asked about opportunities within the NHS - Ive told them to look elsewhere - even if the pension is better (which is very debatable IME) I wouldn't steer them into the public sector just for a good pension - the cons outweigh the pro's IMO - and there is that much tampering with PS pensions - you can never really be sure what you are paying into....

    Absolutely private sector pensions were better historically than now. The result is that now BA has long been described as a massive pension fund with an airline attached. That won't happen for newer companies, as there is no long term liability for companies from defined contribution based pensions.

    There will be tampering with the public sector pensions - at the moment it is not debatable that yours is better than most in the private sector, but that can't be guaranteed for all new entrants as politics changes and demographics change.

    You are unfortunately not "paying into" anything as far as I know. The pension will be paid out of your sons' taxes.

    Not sure thats true - the NHS pension was around 2bn in profit and thats even before the contribution hikes.

    I can only repeat that my private sector pensions are much better than my NHS ones - and by your own admission there is more tampering to come - who'd pay £220 pm to get £12k pa when your 66 - and then be told 'ah actually its 68 now mate' - I don't know how they get away with it - its almost like PPI mis-selling

    As of result of the hikes and tampering - most youngsters in the nhs opt out of the scheme - meaning when they retire they will be even more dependent on the state !!!!! -
  • mamba80mamba80 Posts: 5,086
    Mr Goo wrote:
    Mr Goo wrote:
    This thread started off quite well has sadly deviated and descended into an economics and political argument witha side of discussion.

    The question is WHY DON'T THE BRITISH PUBLIC STAND UP FOR WHAT THEY THINK IS RIGHT AND DEMONSTRATE AND MARCH EN MASS FOR INJUSTICE ? 1% PAY CAP FOR PUBLIC SECTOR WORKERS AT THIS EXTENDED LENGTH IS A GROSS INJUSTICE. WHY ARE WE AS A NATION SO SUBSERVIENT AND COW TOWED BY THOSE IN POWER?
    Because no-one's bothered

    I think you're probably right. Seems hardly anyone on here cares one iota. Better to take it up the Arsenal just so long as you can watch Eastenders and have a pint at the weekend.
    I'm not talking about strikes. I'm talking about rallies and demonstrations. Why aren't thousands descending on Westminster, city halls and town halls, city & town centres.

    What has happened to the psyche of the British population that was so forthright and upstanding at the turn of the 20th Century but has completely deserted us in the 21st Century. This is not a question of economics or political stance but more about who and what we are and have become...... A hive of drones?

    even people on low wages, are no where as badly off as those fighting for decent working conditions at the beginning of the 20th C.

    Like i said earlier, getting involved in demonstrations can end up with a criminal record.
  • mamba80mamba80 Posts: 5,086
    Stevo 666 wrote:
    mamba80 wrote:
    Its pretty shitte really isnt it? add in the 9k per year fees and mtce grants for the compulsory degree and unless you r a budding Florence, why would anyone chose nursing as a career?

    i mean i bet Stevo is on 4 x this min, for doing what exactly? i m double and i fcuk around with bits of tech woooooo!
    Regardless of what that multiple is, like you and most other employees I am only worth what a willing employer is prepared to pay me. And that's the way it should be IMO because its a market for our services.

    What they are willing to pay me depends on various factors including supply and demand (we benchmark against the market), the amount I can add to the bottom line, level of risks mitigated, costs managed, reams of legislation complied with, taking judgment calls on complex issues, building a good team, keeping them motivated and performing, facilitating business transactions, cutting through the censored and telling people what they need to do in plain English, helping the board make sensible decisions, and supporting the business generally to get things done. I could go on :wink:

    I'm in the fortunate position that these things are worth a fair bit to my employer without having to flog myself to death, but then again that's partly the reason for my career choice.

    I cant disagree with what you are saying but i think its a pretty mixed up world when a healthcare worker is deemed to be worth less than some who can config a Cisco router etc
    Maybe its because they are in the main Women?
  • surrey_commutersurrey_commuter Posts: 11,484
    from an actuarial website

    The most recent funding valuation of the NHS Pension Scheme as at 31 March 2012 recorded pension scheme liabilities of £240.4 billion. The NHS Pension Scheme does not have a fund of assets in the same way as is required of private sector schemes; contributions from employees and employers are paid into the general Government tax pot. However, an account is kept of these contributions, a return given at a pre-determined rate (3% above pension increases since 31 March 2011) and deductions made for benefits paid to members, and this total represents the notional assets of the fund. At the valuation date the notional assets were £230.1 billion, resulting in a notional deficit of £10.3 billion.

    the benefits that you have earned can not be taken off you.

    you are currently paying £2,640 per annum to get approximately £500 pension income. In the private sector and assuming your employer matched your contributions after buying an annuity you would have approximately half the income.
  • kingstongrahamkingstongraham Posts: 12,051
    from an actuarial website

    The most recent funding valuation of the NHS Pension Scheme as at 31 March 2012 recorded pension scheme liabilities of £240.4 billion. The NHS Pension Scheme does not have a fund of assets in the same way as is required of private sector schemes; contributions from employees and employers are paid into the general Government tax pot. However, an account is kept of these contributions, a return given at a pre-determined rate (3% above pension increases since 31 March 2011) and deductions made for benefits paid to members, and this total represents the notional assets of the fund. At the valuation date the notional assets were £230.1 billion, resulting in a notional deficit of £10.3 billion.

    the benefits that you have earned can not be taken off you.

    you are currently paying £2,640 per annum to get approximately £500 pension income. In the private sector and assuming your employer matched your contributions after buying an annuity you would have approximately half the income.

    Over how long are the contributions made in your calculation?
  • kingstongrahamkingstongraham Posts: 12,051
    mamba80 wrote:
    I cant disagree with what you are saying but i think its a pretty mixed up world when a healthcare worker is deemed to be worth less than some who can config a Cisco router etc
    Maybe its because they are in the main Women?

    And/Or there isn't an active market for their services?
  • kingrollokingrollo Posts: 3,147
    from an actuarial website

    The most recent funding valuation of the NHS Pension Scheme as at 31 March 2012 recorded pension scheme liabilities of £240.4 billion. The NHS Pension Scheme does not have a fund of assets in the same way as is required of private sector schemes; contributions from employees and employers are paid into the general Government tax pot. However, an account is kept of these contributions, a return given at a pre-determined rate (3% above pension increases since 31 March 2011) and deductions made for benefits paid to members, and this total represents the notional assets of the fund. At the valuation date the notional assets were £230.1 billion, resulting in a notional deficit of £10.3 billion.

    the benefits that you have earned can not be taken off you.

    you are currently paying £2,640 per annum to get approximately £500 pension income. In the private sector and assuming your employer matched your contributions after buying an annuity you would have approximately half the income.

    So why do people in the private sector tend to better off in there old age than those from the public sector ?

    *Actually mine have - I was due to get my pension at 60 - now its 66 - so six years pension payments have been taken off me - and as the previous poster has said this is likely to happen over and over with public sector pensions
  • kingrollokingrollo Posts: 3,147
    http://www.devoncountyunison.org.uk/cam ... h-busters/

    MYTH – There’s a big public sector pensions deficit that has to be repaid.

    There is no funding gap – the public sector schemes were assessed for long term risk and adjusted accordingly three years ago and are now very secure.

    Both the local government pension scheme and NHS pension scheme are currently cash rich with income far exceeding outgoings – some £2 billion in the case of the NHS pension scheme.
  • ProssPross Posts: 24,271
    The problem when trying to compare rises in the public and private sectors is that the private sector is hugely variable as it reflects market and labour forces mainly. That said, it's quite odd in my sector at the moment. The company I recently left finished the final quarter of a 5 year rescue plan and to hit market expectations they made staffing cuts at a time when most in the industry were struggling to recruit and as a result the remaining staff were working excessive hours - my team were probably averaging around 10 hours of unpaid overtime a week and still failing to meet deadlines - the promise was that once through the final quarter there was going to be money available to invest in staff salaries. Come April there was a 2% across the board pay rise and unsurprisingly people are now voting with their feet. Oddly, the company pay people joining them higher than the market rate though probably as it's the only way to get people in. From what I've been told not many other companies in the sector are giving decent pay rises despite a skills shortage but at the same time you can get a big salary increase if you move. A graduate from my old team with 2 years experience just walked into a new role with a 20% increase. It's all very odd, I'd have thought it would be better all around if companies just looked after their staff and retained them.

    Also, as I've said before I think the cap needs to be removed or increased now but those who talk about private sector pay increases seemed to miss the big cuts (not 'real terms' but actual cuts) large parts of the private sector had to accept in 09 / 10 while the public sector continued to get pay increases. Not that I think it should be a race to the bottom or 'I've had a cut so everyone else should' but I think it might explain the lack of uproar over the public sector cap and it shows how the same market forces that drive pay increases can also be negative.
  • ProssPross Posts: 24,271
    kingrollo wrote:
    from an actuarial website

    The most recent funding valuation of the NHS Pension Scheme as at 31 March 2012 recorded pension scheme liabilities of £240.4 billion. The NHS Pension Scheme does not have a fund of assets in the same way as is required of private sector schemes; contributions from employees and employers are paid into the general Government tax pot. However, an account is kept of these contributions, a return given at a pre-determined rate (3% above pension increases since 31 March 2011) and deductions made for benefits paid to members, and this total represents the notional assets of the fund. At the valuation date the notional assets were £230.1 billion, resulting in a notional deficit of £10.3 billion.

    the benefits that you have earned can not be taken off you.

    you are currently paying £2,640 per annum to get approximately £500 pension income. In the private sector and assuming your employer matched your contributions after buying an annuity you would have approximately half the income.

    So why do people in the private sector tend to better off in there old age than those from the public sector ?

    *Actually mine have - I was due to get my pension at 60 - now its 66 - so six years pension payments have been taken off me - and as the previous poster has said this is likely to happen over and over with public sector pensions

    Do they tend to be better off? There were certainly some very good private pensions such as my father-in-law gets from British Steel but my father worked as a printer all his life (50 years) and his pension is less than my mother's that she accrued in about 15 years of public sector (part-time school caretaker, part time home carer and then as a full time nursing assistant). Pound for pound contributed my public sector pension will be paying out vastly more than my private schemes will (overall the private one will hopefully pay more as the private scheme covered the first 8 years of my working life with a salary that ranged from about £5k per year to £19k).
  • meanredspidermeanredspider Posts: 12,550
    A lot of people in the public sector will put up with less good pay because the pensions tend to be good. I know that's the case for Mrs MRS.
    ROAD < Scott Foil HMX Di2, Volagi Liscio Di2, Jamis Renegade Elite Di2, Cube Reaction Race > ROUGH
  • kingstongrahamkingstongraham Posts: 12,051
    kingrollo wrote:
    http://www.devoncountyunison.org.uk/campaigns/protect-our-pensions/pension-myth-busters/

    MYTH – There’s a big public sector pensions deficit that has to be repaid.

    There is no funding gap – the public sector schemes were assessed for long term risk and adjusted accordingly three years ago and are now very secure.

    Both the local government pension scheme and NHS pension scheme are currently cash rich with income far exceeding outgoings – some £2 billion in the case of the NHS pension scheme.

    And on the other side, https://amp.ft.com/content/889e1862-e7b ... 2c54a7f539

    Maybe someone who understands these things can explain what this means?
    . For the avoidance of doubt, the actual rate of contributions payable by employers,
    14.3% of pensionable pay for 2015-16, is not the same as the employers’ share of
    the standard contribution rate as above (26.5% for 2015-16). This is because the
    actual employer contribution rate was determined as part of a funding valuation using
    different assumptions. The key difference between the assumptions used for funding
    valuations and Pension Accounts is the discount rate. The discount rate for Resource
    Accounts is set each year by HM Treasury to reflect the requirements of accounting
    standard IAS19.
  • surrey_commutersurrey_commuter Posts: 11,484
    from an actuarial website

    The most recent funding valuation of the NHS Pension Scheme as at 31 March 2012 recorded pension scheme liabilities of £240.4 billion. The NHS Pension Scheme does not have a fund of assets in the same way as is required of private sector schemes; contributions from employees and employers are paid into the general Government tax pot. However, an account is kept of these contributions, a return given at a pre-determined rate (3% above pension increases since 31 March 2011) and deductions made for benefits paid to members, and this total represents the notional assets of the fund. At the valuation date the notional assets were £230.1 billion, resulting in a notional deficit of £10.3 billion.

    the benefits that you have earned can not be taken off you.

    you are currently paying £2,640 per annum to get approximately £500 pension income. In the private sector and assuming your employer matched your contributions after buying an annuity you would have approximately half the income.

    Over how long are the contributions made in your calculation?

    One year's contribution earning one 54th of his annual salary which I have guessed at £27k

    All rough approximations with heroic assumptions to be used for illustrative purposes only
  • Stevo_666Stevo_666 Posts: 42,232
    mamba80 wrote:
    Stevo 666 wrote:
    mamba80 wrote:
    Its pretty shitte really isnt it? add in the 9k per year fees and mtce grants for the compulsory degree and unless you r a budding Florence, why would anyone chose nursing as a career?

    i mean i bet Stevo is on 4 x this min, for doing what exactly? i m double and i fcuk around with bits of tech woooooo!
    Regardless of what that multiple is, like you and most other employees I am only worth what a willing employer is prepared to pay me. And that's the way it should be IMO because its a market for our services.

    What they are willing to pay me depends on various factors including supply and demand (we benchmark against the market), the amount I can add to the bottom line, level of risks mitigated, costs managed, reams of legislation complied with, taking judgment calls on complex issues, building a good team, keeping them motivated and performing, facilitating business transactions, cutting through the censored and telling people what they need to do in plain English, helping the board make sensible decisions, and supporting the business generally to get things done. I could go on :wink:

    I'm in the fortunate position that these things are worth a fair bit to my employer without having to flog myself to death, but then again that's partly the reason for my career choice.

    I cant disagree with what you are saying but i think its a pretty mixed up world when a healthcare worker is deemed to be worth less than some who can config a Cisco router etc
    Maybe its because they are in the main Women?
    Thanks for agreeing :shock: :wink:

    It depends how you are judging worth. I think you are judging it by your perception of social value of certain professions such as a healthcare worker. In the end it's driven by economics - for better or worse, dependi on your viewpoint.

    Whether its gender related, not sure.
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  • mamba80mamba80 Posts: 5,086
    I ll agree with you if you make sense....

    Of course nurses etc dont add to the UK's bottom line, but i do think we ve got our priorities slightly wrong, its screwed up when an nhs manager in logistics can earn double what a nurse can.
  • rick_chaseyrick_chasey Posts: 50,728 Lives Here
    mamba80 wrote:
    I ll agree with you if you make sense....

    Of course nurses etc dont add to the UK's bottom line, but i do think we ve got our priorities slightly wrong, its screwed up when an nhs manager in logistics can earn double what a nurse can.

    Out of interest, who do you think the private sector spends a lot on hiring decent quality managers???
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