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Public Sector 1% Pay Rise Cap - Why Are There No Protests?

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  • fenixfenix Posts: 5,437
    veronese68 wrote:
    And another thing. How come Queenie isn't covered by the public sector pay cap?
    I know it's calculated differently due to Crown Estates and so on, but even so...

    Aren't they funded from the profits of the Crown Estates Land though ? So she would just get to keep more of it.

    Wonder if they have to keep her sweet. Has the Queen any power to throw May out of Government ? It'd be a laugh.
  • fenixfenix Posts: 5,437
    veronese68 wrote:
    The problem is some have been telling us the NHS is overstretched because of the number of immigrants using it and stretching it to breaking point. Funny how there's no mention of the numbers working in the NHS. I've heard lots of people moaning about the number of foreigners blocking up the NHS, there was someone on here that used to moan about that a lot. People have been protesting the wrong thing steered by those with an agenda.

    Whenever I go to the doctors or hospital it's full of old people. No immigrants overstretching the NHS - as you say a lot of the staff are immigrants themselves.
  • mr_goomr_goo Posts: 3,757
    Some good responses to this.
    1. I do realise that there had been some demonstrations by NHS staff but that seemed to be junior doctors stood outside their hospital of practice, waving banners in vain hope that a passing motorist toots their horn in support. (Me).

    2. 1% cap on the top tier of management and the consultants, GPs and surgeons who are mostly on 6 figure salaries is fair. However Mrs Goo is administration, managing the immunisation programmes for new born, OAPs etc. Quite a responsible position in my opinion.... She barely earns more than a minimum wage shelf stacker at Lidl.

    But what I still don't understand, and it's the nub of the thread title. Why no mass protests. Why aren't we seeing 10s of thousands marching on Westminster or city hall Manchester or wherever. For Hammond to say that the population are weary of austerity is an understatement. By not easing up on it the Tories are clearly not doing themselves any favours and their continued obstinate stance on underlines their credentials as a party of the wealthy, elite city. This could open the door to Corbyn and Mcdonald. And god forbid Abbot.
    Always be yourself, unless you can be Aaron Rodgers....Then always be Aaron Rodgers.
  • surrey_commutersurrey_commuter Posts: 11,493
    People consistently vote for no tax increases so there needs to be a grown up conversation about what else will be cut to pay for any increase.

    I don't know if that statement is true. It's not an a la carte menu for policies but a set menu. If you like everything but the "crispy duck" you don't get to choose. What we need to do (to stretch the anology horribly) is persuade them to offer more of a flexible menu and not assume, because we like some things, we like everything.

    If the Tories went into the next election pledging to put a penny on income tax to fund the NHS do you think they would get more or less votes.

    Anyway to follow the mantra of extracting the most amount of feathers for the least amount of pain they would do better halting planned tax cuts and freeze tax allowances.

    They should also use this as a chance to sort out the ticking bomb that is public sector pensions
  • https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nursing_in_the_United_Kingdom
    in December 2015 showed that 21.7% of NHS nurses were born abroad
    Tier 0 living. You should try it. It's not the deadly, hysterical, fear driven state the government want you to believe it is.

    Fair-weather commuter
    Canyon Ultimate CF 8.0 in Black
  • dinyulldinyull Posts: 2,962
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nursing_in_the_United_Kingdom
    in December 2015 showed that 21.7% of NHS nurses were born abroad

    And....????

    F*cking good job they're here, seeing as bursaries have been removed.

    https://www.theguardian.com/education/2 ... -abolished
  • surrey_commutersurrey_commuter Posts: 11,493
    Mr Goo wrote:
    Some good responses to this.
    1. I do realise that there had been some demonstrations by NHS staff but that seemed to be junior doctors stood outside their hospital of practice, waving banners in vain hope that a passing motorist toots their horn in support. (Me).

    2. 1% cap on the top tier of management and the consultants, GPs and surgeons who are mostly on 6 figure salaries is fair. However Mrs Goo is administration, managing the immunisation programmes for new born, OAPs etc. Quite a responsible position in my opinion.... She barely earns more than a minimum wage shelf stacker at Lidl.
    lol - somebody made the point that everybody believes somebody else should pay more tax. Seems the same applies to pay caps. If there is a shortage of consultants/GPs/surgeons why not pay them more?


    But what I still don't understand, and it's the nub of the thread title. Why no mass protests. Why aren't we seeing 10s of thousands marching on Westminster or city hall Manchester or wherever. For Hammond to say that the population are weary of austerity is an understatement. By not easing up on it the Tories are clearly not doing themselves any favours and their continued obstinate stance on underlines their credentials as a party of the wealthy, elite city. This could open the door to Corbyn and Mcdonald. And god forbid Abbot.

    I am sure that part of the problem is that most in the private sector are lacking sympathy as they are earning no more than they were a decade ago.
    Public sector pensions are a source of envy.
    party of the wealthy - yet you say they are capping people on six figure salaries
  • surrey_commutersurrey_commuter Posts: 11,493
    dinyull wrote:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nursing_in_the_United_Kingdom
    in December 2015 showed that 21.7% of NHS nurses were born abroad

    And....????

    F*cking good job they're here, seeing as bursaries have been removed.

    https://www.theguardian.com/education/2 ... -abolished

    And???? can you not see they are stealing good British jobs from British peo :roll: ple
  • dinyulldinyull Posts: 2,962
    dinyull wrote:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nursing_in_the_United_Kingdom
    in December 2015 showed that 21.7% of NHS nurses were born abroad

    And....????

    F*cking good job they're here, seeing as bursaries have been removed.

    https://www.theguardian.com/education/2 ... -abolished

    And???? can you not see they are stealing good British jobs from British peo :roll: ple

    32QX3P2.gif
  • Look at the response that is met from the suggestion to trim management and back office NHS staff. All the anecdotes come from employees on the front line medical staff who I agree unfairly take the brunt of the pressure on the NHS.

    The report I got the numbers from stated management positions increased by over 5% in 2014 while overall staff numbers increased by 2%.

    As with practically any large organisation they will be top heavy as by their nature, managers build towers justify their position. Staff are also promoted to management to keep them within the organisation. It is why you regularly see organisations having a purge on management positions but without the organisation suffering in any way. Being that this is a public organisation that does not have the same commerical pressures, it would be safe to assume this is in a worse position.

    I would be confident that the NHS would perform as well, if not better, if 20% of management and 10% back office staff were removed over the next 5 years. I would keep the current 1% cap but allow front line staff salaries to increase by dividing up the saving made from the above management and back office staff cuts.

    I would also get every trust to publish their organisation charts so that they have to justify their organisation to the public and press.
    Tier 0 living. You should try it. It's not the deadly, hysterical, fear driven state the government want you to believe it is.

    Fair-weather commuter
    Canyon Ultimate CF 8.0 in Black
  • dinyull wrote:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nursing_in_the_United_Kingdom
    in December 2015 showed that 21.7% of NHS nurses were born abroad

    And....????

    F*cking good job they're here, seeing as bursaries have been removed.

    https://www.theguardian.com/education/2 ... -abolished

    Others in this thread asked for numbers of non-Brits working in the NHS. I posted some of the numbers

    It was you and others that have taken this out of context. Don't you look silly now :roll:
    Tier 0 living. You should try it. It's not the deadly, hysterical, fear driven state the government want you to believe it is.

    Fair-weather commuter
    Canyon Ultimate CF 8.0 in Black
  • TashmanTashman Posts: 2,751
    dinyull wrote:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nursing_in_the_United_Kingdom
    in December 2015 showed that 21.7% of NHS nurses were born abroad

    And....????

    F*cking good job they're here, seeing as bursaries have been removed.

    https://www.theguardian.com/education/2 ... -abolished

    And???? can you not see they are stealing good British jobs from British peo :roll: ple
    Can't decide if this is tongue in cheek! As someone on the inside i can confirm that without these nurses/assistants the whole thing would fall down! There just aren't enough people out there to fill the posts
  • surrey_commutersurrey_commuter Posts: 11,493
    Tashman wrote:
    dinyull wrote:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nursing_in_the_United_Kingdom
    in December 2015 showed that 21.7% of NHS nurses were born abroad

    And....????

    F*cking good job they're here, seeing as bursaries have been removed.

    https://www.theguardian.com/education/2 ... -abolished

    And???? can you not see they are stealing good British jobs from British peo :roll: ple
    Can't decide if this is tongue in cheek! As someone on the inside i can confirm that without these nurses/assistants the whole thing would fall down! There just aren't enough people out there to fill the posts

    But we have taken back control of nurse recruitment

    https://www.theguardian.com/society/201 ... rd-numbers
  • surrey_commutersurrey_commuter Posts: 11,493
    Look at the response that is met from the suggestion to trim management and back office NHS staff. All the anecdotes come from employees on the front line medical staff who I agree unfairly take the brunt of the pressure on the NHS.

    The report I got the numbers from stated management positions increased by over 5% in 2014 while overall staff numbers increased by 2%.

    As with practically any large organisation they will be top heavy as by their nature, managers build towers justify their position. Staff are also promoted to management to keep them within the organisation. It is why you regularly see organisations having a purge on management positions but without the organisation suffering in any way. Being that this is a public organisation that does not have the same commerical pressures, it would be safe to assume this is in a worse position.

    I would be confident that the NHS would perform as well, if not better, if . I would keep the current 1% cap but allow front line staff salaries to increase by dividing up the saving made from the above management and back office staff cuts.

    I would also get every trust to publish their organisation charts so that they have to justify their organisation to the public and press.

    capping overall wage costs increase at 1% and leaving them flexibility is not a bad idea, though they kind of have it already by having to work within budgets.

    Would you mind doing a rough calculation on how much you would save by canning 20% of management and 10% back office staff were removed over the next 5 years. And what that would equate to in terms of an increase for front line staff?
  • mr_goomr_goo Posts: 3,757
    Mr Goo wrote:
    Some good responses to this.
    1. I do realise that there had been some demonstrations by NHS staff but that seemed to be junior doctors stood outside their hospital of practice, waving banners in vain hope that a passing motorist toots their horn in support. (Me).

    2. 1% cap on the top tier of management and the consultants, GPs and surgeons who are mostly on 6 figure salaries is fair. However Mrs Goo is administration, managing the imm8unisation programmes for new born, OAPs etc. Quite a responsible position in my opinion.... She barely earns more than a minimum wage shelf stacker at Lidl.
    lol - somebody made the point that everybody believes somebody else should pay more tax. Seems the same applies to pay caps. If there is a shortage of consultants/GPs/surgeons why not pay them more?


    But what I still don't understand, and it's the nub of the thread title. Why no mass protests. Why aren't we seeing 10s of thousands marching on Westminster or city hall Manchester or wherever. For Hammond to say that the population are weary of austerity is an understatement. By not easing up on it the Tories are clearly not doing themselves any favours and their continued obstinate stance on underlines their credentials as a party of the wealthy, elite city. This could open the door to Corbyn and Mcdonald. And god forbid Abbot.

    I am sure that part of the problem is that most in the private sector are lacking sympathy as they are earning no more than they were a decade ago.
    Public sector pensions are a source of envy.
    party of the wealthy - yet you say they are capping people on six figure salaries

    Quite possibly true. I'm earning same as I was 10 years ago. However, that's my choice in this instance as I can't be ar5ed with the agro of management roles and want a quiet life. However it still doesn't mean that employers private or public should be getting away with zero to 1% pay increases over the last 8 to 9 years when the cost of living has increased by 3 to 4 % PA. (I'm not gonna use official stats, but still think that's conservative ).
    Always be yourself, unless you can be Aaron Rodgers....Then always be Aaron Rodgers.
  • surrey_commutersurrey_commuter Posts: 11,493
    Mr Goo wrote:
    Mr Goo wrote:
    Some good responses to this.
    1. I do realise that there had been some demonstrations by NHS staff but that seemed to be junior doctors stood outside their hospital of practice, waving banners in vain hope that a passing motorist toots their horn in support. (Me).

    2. 1% cap on the top tier of management and the consultants, GPs and surgeons who are mostly on 6 figure salaries is fair. However Mrs Goo is administration, managing the imm8unisation programmes for new born, OAPs etc. Quite a responsible position in my opinion.... She barely earns more than a minimum wage shelf stacker at Lidl.
    lol - somebody made the point that everybody believes somebody else should pay more tax. Seems the same applies to pay caps. If there is a shortage of consultants/GPs/surgeons why not pay them more?


    But what I still don't understand, and it's the nub of the thread title. Why no mass protests. Why aren't we seeing 10s of thousands marching on Westminster or city hall Manchester or wherever. For Hammond to say that the population are weary of austerity is an understatement. By not easing up on it the Tories are clearly not doing themselves any favours and their continued obstinate stance on underlines their credentials as a party of the wealthy, elite city. This could open the door to Corbyn and Mcdonald. And god forbid Abbot.

    I am sure that part of the problem is that most in the private sector are lacking sympathy as they are earning no more than they were a decade ago.
    Public sector pensions are a source of envy.
    party of the wealthy - yet you say they are capping people on six figure salaries

    Quite possibly true. I'm earning same as I was 10 years ago. However, that's my choice in this instance as I can't be ar5ed with the agro of management roles and want a quiet life. However it still doesn't mean that employers private or public should be getting away with zero to 1% pay increases over the last 8 to 9 years when the cost of living has increased by 3 to 4 % PA. (I'm not gonna use official stats, but still think that's conservative ).

    if the rate of pay is not decided by the market how would you determine it? a pay board for each industry or profession?
  • mamba80mamba80 Posts: 5,086
    There are no real protests because we are apathetic, always have been, we just havent got that Latin temperament.
    many people are just glad of a job too, it is also very difficult to protest, Police have some choice tactics and ordinary folk dont want a criminal record, similar riots seen over the Poll tax just would nt happen now-a-days.
  • mr_goomr_goo Posts: 3,757
    Mr Goo wrote:
    Mr Goo wrote:
    Some good responses to this.
    1. I do realise that there had been some demonstrations by NHS staff but that seemed to be junior doctors stood outside their hospital of practice, waving banners in vain hope that a passing motorist toots their horn in support. (Me).

    2. 1% cap on the top tier of management and the consultants, GPs and surgeons who are mostly on 6 figure salaries is fair. However Mrs Goo is administration, managing the imm8unisation programmes for new born, OAPs etc. Quite a responsible position in my opinion.... She barely earns more than a minimum wage shelf stacker at Lidl.
    lol - somebody made the point that everybody believes somebody else should pay more tax. Seems the same applies to pay caps. If there is a shortage of consultants/GPs/surgeons why not pay them more?


    But what I still don't understand, and it's the nub of the thread title. Why no mass protests. Why aren't we seeing 10s of thousands marching on Westminster or city hall Manchester or wherever. For Hammond to say that the population are weary of austerity is an understatement. By not easing up on it the Tories are clearly not doing themselves any favours and their continued obstinate stance on underlines their credentials as a party of the wealthy, elite city. This could open the door to Corbyn and Mcdonald. And god forbid Abbot.

    I am sure that part of the problem is that most in the private sector are lacking sympathy as they are earning no more than they were a decade ago.
    Public sector pensions are a source of envy.
    party of the wealthy - yet you say they are capping people on six figure salaries

    Quite possibly true. I'm earning same as I was 10 years ago. However, that's my choice in this instance as I can't be ar5ed with the agro of management roles and want a quiet life. However it still doesn't mean that employers private or public should be getting away with zero to 1% pay increases over the last 8 to 9 years when the cost of living has increased by 3 to 4 % PA. (I'm not gonna use official stats, but still think that's conservative ).

    if the rate of pay is not decided by the market how would you determine it? a pay board for each industry or profession?

    I've no idea. I'm totally unqualified to put forward a solution. But this zero to 1% is a form of oppression for millions of the UK population that are on low to modest wages. Look at the increases in personal borrowing (excluding mortgages) over the last few years. Food bank numbers have increased dramatically and used by people in employment. It's getting out of hand.
    Always be yourself, unless you can be Aaron Rodgers....Then always be Aaron Rodgers.
  • surrey_commutersurrey_commuter Posts: 11,493
    Mr Goo wrote:
    Mr Goo wrote:
    Mr Goo wrote:
    Some good responses to this.
    1. I do realise that there had been some demonstrations by NHS staff but that seemed to be junior doctors stood outside their hospital of practice, waving banners in vain hope that a passing motorist toots their horn in support. (Me).

    2. 1% cap on the top tier of management and the consultants, GPs and surgeons who are mostly on 6 figure salaries is fair. However Mrs Goo is administration, managing the imm8unisation programmes for new born, OAPs etc. Quite a responsible position in my opinion.... She barely earns more than a minimum wage shelf stacker at Lidl.
    lol - somebody made the point that everybody believes somebody else should pay more tax. Seems the same applies to pay caps. If there is a shortage of consultants/GPs/surgeons why not pay them more?


    But what I still don't understand, and it's the nub of the thread title. Why no mass protests. Why aren't we seeing 10s of thousands marching on Westminster or city hall Manchester or wherever. For Hammond to say that the population are weary of austerity is an understatement. By not easing up on it the Tories are clearly not doing themselves any favours and their continued obstinate stance on underlines their credentials as a party of the wealthy, elite city. This could open the door to Corbyn and Mcdonald. And god forbid Abbot.

    I am sure that part of the problem is that most in the private sector are lacking sympathy as they are earning no more than they were a decade ago.
    Public sector pensions are a source of envy.
    party of the wealthy - yet you say they are capping people on six figure salaries

    Quite possibly true. I'm earning same as I was 10 years ago. However, that's my choice in this instance as I can't be ar5ed with the agro of management roles and want a quiet life. However it still doesn't mean that employers private or public should be getting away with zero to 1% pay increases over the last 8 to 9 years when the cost of living has increased by 3 to 4 % PA. (I'm not gonna use official stats, but still think that's conservative ).

    if the rate of pay is not decided by the market how would you determine it? a pay board for each industry or profession?

    I've no idea. I'm totally unqualified to put forward a solution. But this zero to 1% is a form of oppression for millions of the UK population that are on low to modest wages. Look at the increases in personal borrowing (excluding mortgages) over the last few years. Food bank numbers have increased dramatically and used by people in employment. It's getting out of hand.

    surely you have to have a better option to be so confident this one is wrong?

    what if we had been living beyond our means all of these years?

    one of the biggest driver of personal borrowing is people renting new cars

    0-1% is OK so long as inflation is 0-1% which is what it was before the depreciation of sterling. So to contradict Mr Hammond you really did vote to make yourself poorer.

    what about people who can not be ar5ed to earn more money - should they have their benefits withdrawn?
  • rjsterryrjsterry Posts: 18,279
    Mr Goo wrote:
    Mr Goo wrote:
    Some good responses to this.
    1. I do realise that there had been some demonstrations by NHS staff but that seemed to be junior doctors stood outside their hospital of practice, waving banners in vain hope that a passing motorist toots their horn in support. (Me).

    2. 1% cap on the top tier of management and the consultants, GPs and surgeons who are mostly on 6 figure salaries is fair. However Mrs Goo is administration, managing the imm8unisation programmes for new born, OAPs etc. Quite a responsible position in my opinion.... She barely earns more than a minimum wage shelf stacker at Lidl.
    lol - somebody made the point that everybody believes somebody else should pay more tax. Seems the same applies to pay caps. If there is a shortage of consultants/GPs/surgeons why not pay them more?


    But what I still don't understand, and it's the nub of the thread title. Why no mass protests. Why aren't we seeing 10s of thousands marching on Westminster or city hall Manchester or wherever. For Hammond to say that the population are weary of austerity is an understatement. By not easing up on it the Tories are clearly not doing themselves any favours and their continued obstinate stance on underlines their credentials as a party of the wealthy, elite city. This could open the door to Corbyn and Mcdonald. And god forbid Abbot.

    I am sure that part of the problem is that most in the private sector are lacking sympathy as they are earning no more than they were a decade ago.
    Public sector pensions are a source of envy.
    party of the wealthy - yet you say they are capping people on six figure salaries

    Quite possibly true. I'm earning same as I was 10 years ago. However, that's my choice in this instance as I can't be ar5ed with the agro of management roles and want a quiet life. However it still doesn't mean that employers private or public should be getting away with zero to 1% pay increases over the last 8 to 9 years when the cost of living has increased by 3 to 4 % PA. (I'm not gonna use official stats, but still think that's conservative ).

    if the rate of pay is not decided by the market how would you determine it? a pay board for each industry or profession?
    You can get an idea of the market from agency nursing and private healthcare. I've not heard of an oversupply of nurses, so I'd imagine 'market' pay rises in the sector are >1%
    1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
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    Liberal metropolitan, remoaner, traitor, "sympathiser", etc.
  • Stevo_666Stevo_666 Posts: 42,256
    Maybe there is some recognition of the point that public sector pay is still ahead of private sector pay even after a few years of the cap?
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-40480766
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    "I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]
  • letap73letap73 Posts: 1,608
    Stevo 666 wrote:
    Maybe there is some recognition of the point that public sector pay is still ahead of private sector pay even after a few years of the cap?
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-40480766

    I think this is true - unfortunately I think those on the lower rungs within the private sector have been well and truly shafted, if you are on the higher rung then this is not so much the case. This is my experience from working with two Ftse 100 companies for the last few years.
  • surrey_commutersurrey_commuter Posts: 11,493
    rjsterry wrote:
    Mr Goo wrote:
    Mr Goo wrote:
    Some good responses to this.
    1. I do realise that there had been some demonstrations by NHS staff but that seemed to be junior doctors stood outside their hospital of practice, waving banners in vain hope that a passing motorist toots their horn in support. (Me).

    2. 1% cap on the top tier of management and the consultants, GPs and surgeons who are mostly on 6 figure salaries is fair. However Mrs Goo is administration, managing the imm8unisation programmes for new born, OAPs etc. Quite a responsible position in my opinion.... She barely earns more than a minimum wage shelf stacker at Lidl.
    lol - somebody made the point that everybody believes somebody else should pay more tax. Seems the same applies to pay caps. If there is a shortage of consultants/GPs/surgeons why not pay them more?


    But what I still don't understand, and it's the nub of the thread title. Why no mass protests. Why aren't we seeing 10s of thousands marching on Westminster or city hall Manchester or wherever. For Hammond to say that the population are weary of austerity is an understatement. By not easing up on it the Tories are clearly not doing themselves any favours and their continued obstinate stance on underlines their credentials as a party of the wealthy, elite city. This could open the door to Corbyn and Mcdonald. And god forbid Abbot.

    I am sure that part of the problem is that most in the private sector are lacking sympathy as they are earning no more than they were a decade ago.
    Public sector pensions are a source of envy.
    party of the wealthy - yet you say they are capping people on six figure salaries

    Quite possibly true. I'm earning same as I was 10 years ago. However, that's my choice in this instance as I can't be ar5ed with the agro of management roles and want a quiet life. However it still doesn't mean that employers private or public should be getting away with zero to 1% pay increases over the last 8 to 9 years when the cost of living has increased by 3 to 4 % PA. (I'm not gonna use official stats, but still think that's conservative ).

    if the rate of pay is not decided by the market how would you determine it? a pay board for each industry or profession?
    You can get an idea of the market from agency nursing and private healthcare. I've not heard of an oversupply of nurses, so I'd imagine 'market' pay rises in the sector are >1%

    Agreed - pay more where there are staff shortages and vice versa
  • BelgianBeerGeekBelgianBeerGeek Posts: 5,230
    mamba80 wrote:
    There are no real protests because we are apathetic, always have been, we just havent got that Latin temperament.
    many people are just glad of a job too, it is also very difficult to protest, Police have some choice tactics and ordinary folk dont want a criminal record, similar riots seen over the Poll tax just would nt happen now-a-days.
    This. Believe it or not, a number of public sector workers do their jobs because they believe in it. Whether you talk about police, fire, NHS or some dogsbody who does filing for the DWP. And as long as they turn up, and take their crumbs from the table, the Government will take them for a ride.
    Ecrasez l’infame
  • mr_goomr_goo Posts: 3,757
    Mr Goo wrote:
    Mr Goo wrote:
    Mr Goo wrote:
    Some good responses to this.
    1. I do realise that there had been some demonstrations by NHS staff but that seemed to be junior doctors stood outside their hospital of practice, waving banners in vain hope that a passing motorist toots their horn in support. (Me).

    2. 1% cap on the top tier of management and the consultants, GPs and surgeons who are mostly on 6 figure salaries is fair. However Mrs Goo is administration, managing the imm8unisation programmes for new born, OAPs etc. Quite a responsible position in my opinion.... She barely earns more than a minimum wage shelf stacker at Lidl.
    lol - somebody made the point that everybody believes somebody else should pay more tax. Seems the same applies to pay caps. If there is a shortage of consultants/GPs/surgeons why not pay them more?


    But what I still don't understand, and it's the nub of the thread title. Why no mass protests. Why aren't we seeing 10s of thousands marching on Westminster or city hall Manchester or wherever. For Hammond to say that the population are weary of austerity is an understatement. By not easing up on it the Tories are clearly not doing themselves any favours and their continued obstinate stance on underlines their credentials as a party of the wealthy, elite city. This could open the door to Corbyn and Mcdonald. And god forbid Abbot.

    I am sure that part of the problem is that most in the private sector are lacking sympathy as they are earning no more than they were a decade ago.
    Public sector pensions are a source of envy.
    party of the wealthy - yet you say they are capping people on six figure salaries

    Quite possibly true. I'm earning same as I was 10 years ago. However, that's my choice in this instance as I can't be ar5ed with the agro of management roles and want a quiet life. However it still doesn't mean that employers private or public should be getting away with zero to 1% pay increases over the last 8 to 9 years when the cost of living has increased by 3 to 4 % PA. (I'm not gonna use official stats, but still think that's conservative ).

    if the rate of pay is not decided by the market how would you determine it? a pay board for each industry or profession?

    I've no idea. I'm totally unqualified to put forward a solution. But this zero to 1% is a form of oppression for millions of the UK population that are on low to modest wages. Look at the increases in personal borrowing (excluding mortgages) over the last few years. Food bank numbers have increased dramatically and used by people in employment. It's getting out of hand.

    surely you have to have a better option to be so confident this one is wrong?

    what if we had been living beyond our means all of these years?

    one of the biggest driver of personal borrowing is people renting new cars

    0-1% is OK so long as inflation is 0-1% which is what it was before the depreciation of sterling. So to contradict Mr Hammond you really did vote to make yourself poorer.

    what about people who can not be ar5ed to earn more money - should they have their benefits withdrawn?

    I agree with you on the borrowing of cash to buy cars. The motor manufacturers are guilty on 2 counts.
    1. For enticing consumers with apparently excellent financial deals.... Only £199 deposit and £199 per month. etc etc.
    2. For the over pricing of vehicles. The most guilty of these is Mercedes (spoke to a Mini dealer recently who had someone in the office to trade in a year old Merc for a new Mini. The client was £8k in defecit apparently. Not the first time I've heard this. Even got similar story from an ex Mercedes employee).

    Mate of mine lives in Texas and when last he visited UK 3 years ago couldn't understand why there were so many new/newish cars on the road.
    Always be yourself, unless you can be Aaron Rodgers....Then always be Aaron Rodgers.
  • surrey_commutersurrey_commuter Posts: 11,493
    [/quote]
    I agree with you on the borrowing of cash to buy cars. The motor manufacturers are guilty on 2 counts.
    1. For enticing consumers with apparently excellent financial deals.... Only £199 deposit and £199 per month. etc etc.
    2. For the over pricing of vehicles. The most guilty of these is Mercedes (spoke to a Mini dealer recently who had someone in the office to trade in a year old Merc for a new Mini. The client was £8k in defecit apparently. Not the first time I've heard this. Even got similar story from an ex Mercedes employee).

    Mate of mine lives in Texas and when last he visited UK 3 years ago couldn't understand why there were so many new/newish cars on the road.[/quote]

    the problem is that they are not borrowing they are renting.

    what % of the blame do you think falls on the consumer?
  • Stevo_666Stevo_666 Posts: 42,256
    Mr Goo wrote:
    I agree with you on the borrowing of cash to buy cars. The motor manufacturers are guilty on 2 counts.
    1. For enticing consumers with apparently excellent financial deals.... Only £199 deposit and £199 per month. etc etc.
    2. For the over pricing of vehicles. The most guilty of these is Mercedes (spoke to a Mini dealer recently who had someone in the office to trade in a year old Merc for a new Mini. The client was £8k in defecit apparently. Not the first time I've heard this. Even got similar story from an ex Mercedes employee).

    Mate of mine lives in Texas and when last he visited UK 3 years ago couldn't understand why there were so many new/newish cars on the road.
    Nobody is forcing people to buy the things.
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  • Love that letter censored ... "I wont vote for something that is good for this country because it came from the Labour party..."
    And these people are the ones making all the decisions!
  • First.AspectFirst.Aspect Posts: 4,609

    Personally, I've just written to my MP to tell him that I'd happily pay an extra penny in the pound for a better NHS.
    Move back to Scotland then and you can pay more income tax right now.
  • bendertherobotbendertherobot Posts: 11,655
    Love that letter censored ... "I wont vote for something that is good for this country because it came from the Labour party..."
    And these people are the ones making all the decisions!

    Good isn't it, but no real scandal follows. FWIW, the labour party amendment was a little too bullish. Something more subtle would have been quite tricky to vote down.
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