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London Bridge Incident

meanredspidermeanredspider Posts: 12,550
edited June 2017 in The cake stop
Speeding van and gunfire reported

And a 2nd incident at Borough Market
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  • crispybug2crispybug2 Posts: 2,997
    Now reports of a third incident at Vauxhall

    Reports also say that there is more than one fatality at the London Bridge incident *


    * I think we can now say that this is a terrorist attack!
  • cougiecougie Posts: 22,512
    So awful that people are so messed up to attack innocents. My heart goes out to all in the area or with loved ones possibly there.
  • DeVlaeminckDeVlaeminck Posts: 5,587
    Sadly these incidents may be the new normal.
    AFC Mercia women - sign for us
  • oxomanoxoman Posts: 7,300
    Having been out with family tonight celebrating youngsters achievements we come home to this. We are living in seriously screwed up times, I just hope it's stopped quickly. My families thoughts are with the victims and their families today.
    Too many bikes according to Mrs O.
  • Frank the tankFrank the tank Posts: 6,806
    Sadly these incidents may be the new normal.
    This ^^^^
    This issue will be a long term headache for whoever wins the GE.
    Tail end Charlie

    The above post may contain traces of sarcasm or/and bullsh*t.
  • ProssPross Posts: 22,131
    Sadly these incidents may be the new normal.
    This ^^^^
    This issue will be a long term headache for whoever wins the GE.

    Yep, if you've got people prepared to die then this sort of thing carried out by individuals or small groups, requiring little to no organisation or co-ordination and weapons that are freely available are impossible to stop.
  • cyclecliniccycleclinic Posts: 6,863
    It's bad enough that some people want to kill others for ideology but to make it worse it inspires the reaction of hate in return which just puts fuel on the fire. Expect more right wing reactionary especially to call for internment deportation and other stuff. Of course all the right wing stuff cannot make anyone safer as we are at greater risk at home. My sympathises are with one affected.
    http://www.thecycleclinic.co.uk -wheel building and other stuff.
  • mr_goomr_goo Posts: 3,728
    Sadly these incidents may be the new normal.

    I believe that you may well be correct.

    Condolences go out to those that have lost loved ones. Yet again.
    Always be yourself, unless you can be Aaron Rodgers....Then always be Aaron Rodgers.
  • dav1d1dav1d1 Posts: 653
    It's bad enough that some people want to kill others for ideology but to make it worse it inspires the reaction of hate in return which just puts fuel on the fire. Expect more right wing reactionary especially to call for internment deportation and other stuff. Of course all the right wing stuff cannot make anyone safer as we are at greater risk at home. My sympathises are with one affected.

    So what would you do than? Light a candle? Minute silence? Concert? Than wait for the next one, and say again we don't want to cause hate towards you or anything! You may kill our people, blow up our young children but it's fine! We welcome you with open arms! Your like the London mayor who said the exact same
  • joe2008joe2008 Posts: 1,919
    It's bad enough that some people want to kill others for ideology but to make it worse it inspires the reaction of hate in return which just puts fuel on the fire. Expect more right wing reactionary especially to call for internment deportation and other stuff. Of course all the right wing stuff cannot make anyone safer as we are at greater risk at home. My sympathises are with one affected.

    What reaction does it inspire in you then?
  • mr_goomr_goo Posts: 3,728
    dav1d1 wrote:
    It's bad enough that some people want to kill others for ideology but to make it worse it inspires the reaction of hate in return which just puts fuel on the fire. Expect more right wing reactionary especially to call for internment deportation and other stuff. Of course all the right wing stuff cannot make anyone safer as we are at greater risk at home. My sympathises are with one affected.

    So what would you do than? Light a candle? Minute silence? Concert? Than wait for the next one, and say again we don't want to cause hate towards you or anything! You may kill our people, blow up our young children but it's fine! We welcome you with open arms! Your like the London mayor who said the exact same

    It's probably the most difficult situation that the World now has to deal with. I do not think any head of state has a way of ending this. I just wish leaders would stop with the "It Only Makes Us Stronger" platitudes.
    Always be yourself, unless you can be Aaron Rodgers....Then always be Aaron Rodgers.
  • imposter2.0imposter2.0 Posts: 10,826
    "Enough is enough/things need to change" apparently, so internment (or some form, thereof) is now almost certainly on the way. Guantanamo 'lite' - probably on Salisbury Plain, just like in V for Vendetta.
  • Imposter wrote:
    "Enough is enough/things need to change" apparently, so internment (or some form, thereof) is now almost certainly on the way. Guantanamo 'lite' - probably on Salisbury Plain, just like in V for Vendetta.

    Longer sentences for terrorists (sic)

    How long should we be sending suicide bombers to jail for exactly?
  • mr_goomr_goo Posts: 3,728
    edited June 2017
    Mrs May has now stated 'enough is enough' and that extremism must be dealt with. I'm pretty sure that's what our security services, the police and armed forces have been doing for some considerable time.

    I'm not labelling all Muslims, but the fundemental problem to be dealt with is the Quran and it's 100s of verses preaching against non believers. It is very much like the Old Testament of fire and brimstone preaching. There are over 2 billion Muslims in the world and increasing. If my maths is correct, if only 0.05% are radicalised that's 1 million people willing to perpetrate horrendous crimes in the name of an ancient text / fairy tale. That is what the world is dealing with.
    Always be yourself, unless you can be Aaron Rodgers....Then always be Aaron Rodgers.
  • imposter2.0imposter2.0 Posts: 10,826
    Reformation...for what it's worth, christianity had one in the 16th century...
  • rjsterryrjsterry Posts: 16,855
    Mr Goo wrote:
    Mrs May has now stated 'enough is enough' and that extremism must be dealt with. I'm pretty sure that's what our security services, the police and armed forces have been doing for some considerable time.

    I'm not labelling all Muslims, but the fundemental problem to be dealt with is the Quran and it's 100s of verses preaching against non believers. It is very much like the Old Testament of fire and brimstone preaching. There are over 2 billion Muslims in the world and increasing. If my maths is correct, if only 0.05% are radicalised that's 1 million people willing to perpetrate horrendous crimes in the name of an ancient text / fairy tale. That is what the world is dealing with.
    Are you stating that from having read the original text (or translation)? Or if not where did you read it? Genuinely interested.
    1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
    1980s BSA 10sp

    Liberal metropolitan, remoaner, traitor, "sympathiser", etc.
  • imposter2.0imposter2.0 Posts: 10,826
    Don't be confusing things with facts, now..
  • surrey_commutersurrey_commuter Posts: 9,773
    rjsterry wrote:
    Mr Goo wrote:
    Mrs May has now stated 'enough is enough' and that extremism must be dealt with. I'm pretty sure that's what our security services, the police and armed forces have been doing for some considerable time.

    I'm not labelling all Muslims, but the fundemental problem to be dealt with is the Quran and it's 100s of verses preaching against non believers. It is very much like the Old Testament of fire and brimstone preaching. There are over 2 billion Muslims in the world and increasing. If my maths is correct, if only 0.05% are radicalised that's 1 million people willing to perpetrate horrendous crimes in the name of an ancient text / fairy tale. That is what the world is dealing with.
    Are you stating that from having read the original text (or translation)? Or if not where did you read it? Genuinely interested.

    Daily Express/Mail the most likely source.

    No need to discrimate against people by religion - just shoot or intern anybody who has travelled abroad to join AL Qaeda, IS or similar
  • rick_chaseyrick_chasey Posts: 46,617 Lives Here
    Ah just get on with BAU.

    More people die in car accidents most days.

    It's bad for the people involved natch, but so is lots of stuff. Emotional rubbernecking doesn't help anything.

    Rozzers shot 'em, were there in 8 minutes.

    They'll look into whether they need of change anything for the future.

    Best treat these nutters like guys who go postal. Assume they mainly do it for the notoriety and wonder what the incentives are for them to do it. A hint - all the chuffing publicity they get.
  • The Koran can be interpreted in different ways, just as the bible can. It does state to show no mercy to enemy combatants but be merciful to civilians. The problem with fundamentalists is that they see any civilian who doesn't follow Sunni Islam as the enemy, be it Shia Islam, Jew, Christian or whatever.
  • rjsterryrjsterry Posts: 16,855
    Always tricky to gauge your sarcasm SC. I am genuinely interested in where this idea comes from and whether it has any basis.
    1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
    1980s BSA 10sp

    Liberal metropolitan, remoaner, traitor, "sympathiser", etc.
  • city_boycity_boy Posts: 1,616
    rjsterry wrote:
    Mr Goo wrote:
    Mrs May has now stated 'enough is enough' and that extremism must be dealt with. I'm pretty sure that's what our security services, the police and armed forces have been doing for some considerable time.

    I'm not labelling all Muslims, but the fundemental problem to be dealt with is the Quran and it's 100s of verses preaching against non believers. It is very much like the Old Testament of fire and brimstone preaching. There are over 2 billion Muslims in the world and increasing. If my maths is correct, if only 0.05% are radicalised that's 1 million people willing to perpetrate horrendous crimes in the name of an ancient text / fairy tale. That is what the world is dealing with.
    Are you stating that from having read the original text (or translation)? Or if not where did you read it? Genuinely interested.

    Some say there are 109 verses within the Quran and Hadith promoting violence and hatred towards non-believers. Many Muslims including self confessed former Islamic extremist Maajid Nawaz claim that to read the Islamic texts as a call to jihad or extremist actions would be a "plausible interpretation".

    Some of the verses are quoted here...

    http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/pages ... lence.aspx

    Make your own mind up.
    Statistically, 6 out of 7 dwarves are not happy.
  • Frank the tankFrank the tank Posts: 6,806
    It is an almost impossible situation. Some espouse internment and solutions along that line,however, those of us who are old enough can remember what a great recruiting sergeant internment was for the IRA. I feel it would have the same effect again.
    At least with the Irish troubles there was a goal that could actually be negotiated around, this is not the case with ISIS or the [email protected] that carry out acts like this one.
    It is a very difficult issue which will require a lot of proper thought by whoever runs the show next week.
    Tail end Charlie

    The above post may contain traces of sarcasm or/and bullsh*t.
  • nickicenickice Posts: 1,043
    It's bad enough that some people want to kill others for ideology but to make it worse it inspires the reaction of hate in return which just puts fuel on the fire. Expect more right wing reactionary especially to call for internment deportation and other stuff. Of course all the right wing stuff cannot make anyone safer as we are at greater risk at home. My sympathises are with one affected.


    What reaction of hate? The reaction of the British people to these attacks has been incredibly restrained.If anything, we have been too understanding.

    By the way, if I were a moderate Muslim I'd be in favour of the deportation of jihadists and I don't really see why that's a controversial policy if they're not British citizens (of course most of them are). As for internment, that's more problematic, but again, if I were a moderate Muslim, I wouldn't be against it in principle as moderate Muslims must want these people out of their community too.
  • rjsterryrjsterry Posts: 16,855
    City Boy wrote:
    rjsterry wrote:
    Mr Goo wrote:
    Mrs May has now stated 'enough is enough' and that extremism must be dealt with. I'm pretty sure that's what our security services, the police and armed forces have been doing for some considerable time.

    I'm not labelling all Muslims, but the fundemental problem to be dealt with is the Quran and it's 100s of verses preaching against non believers. It is very much like the Old Testament of fire and brimstone preaching. There are over 2 billion Muslims in the world and increasing. If my maths is correct, if only 0.05% are radicalised that's 1 million people willing to perpetrate horrendous crimes in the name of an ancient text / fairy tale. That is what the world is dealing with.
    Are you stating that from having read the original text (or translation)? Or if not where did you read it? Genuinely interested.

    Some say there are 109 verses within the Quran and Hadith promoting violence and hatred towards non-believers. Many Muslims including self confessed former Islamic extremist Maajid Nawaz claim that to read the Islamic texts as a call to jihad or extremist actions would be a "plausible interpretation".

    Some of the verses are quoted here...

    http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/pages ... lence.aspx

    Make your own mind up.
    Well they've got a bit of an axe to grind, haven't they? Anyone got anything more objective?
    1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
    1980s BSA 10sp

    Liberal metropolitan, remoaner, traitor, "sympathiser", etc.
  • mr_goomr_goo Posts: 3,728
    rjsterry wrote:
    Mr Goo wrote:
    Mrs May has now stated 'enough is enough' and that extremism must be dealt with. I'm pretty sure that's what our security services, the police and armed forces have been doing for some considerable time.

    I'm not labelling all Muslims, but the fundemental problem to be dealt with is the Quran and it's 100s of verses preaching against non believers. It is very much like the Old Testament of fire and brimstone preaching. There are over 2 billion Muslims in the world and increasing. If my maths is correct, if only 0.05% are radicalised that's 1 million people willing to perpetrate horrendous crimes in the name of an ancient text / fairy tale. That is what the world is dealing with.
    Are you stating that from having read the original text (or translation)? Or if not where did you read it? Genuinely interested.

    I've read some translations of the verses. Not the whole book granted. Note I never stated 'hate' against non believers and never state that all muslims subscribe to violence. But the holy book is tied up in knots over non Muslims.
    There are internal fundemental problems with this religion dating back to 632AD when the prophet Muhammad died and the dispute over his succession. Which lead to Sunni muslims ( Al Sunni - people of tradition) and Shia (Shia Ali - the party of Ali, Muhammads son-in-law. Ali and his sons Hussain and Hussein were assassinated thus denying what Shia feel is their birth right- to lead the Islamic community). From these 2 branches have sprung several doctrinal disputes dividing Islam and which have led to war. But the real problem is that there are divisions within these 2 divisions. And more sub divisions to the point where some muslims are not even acknowledged as muslims. That is why we see many suicide attacks within Muslim communities and thats something that's been ongoing for centuries.
    Always be yourself, unless you can be Aaron Rodgers....Then always be Aaron Rodgers.
  • ugo.santaluciaugo.santalucia Posts: 24,230
    I passed in front of Edgbaston cricket ground this morning... just as crowds were gathering for India-Pakistan. One would think this could be a target for terrorism for a number of reasons, including the age old question of Kashmir... and yet I have not seen a single armed police officer... a few coppers in yellow vests with a van... that's it

    If the terror alert is on critical, it certainly doesn't look like over here
  • city_boycity_boy Posts: 1,616
    rjsterry wrote:
    Well they've got a bit of an axe to grind, haven't they? Anyone got anything more objective?

    TBF I included the link to give an easy reference to the many verses claimed by some to be an incitement to hate/violence, as opposed to the views of the authors of the website.

    You can then refer each verse back to the Quran itself...

    https://quran.com/

    and, having read each verse in its full context, you can then make up your own mind.

    I guess you can't get any more objective than reading each verse within the context of the Quran.
    Statistically, 6 out of 7 dwarves are not happy.
  • rjsterryrjsterry Posts: 16,855
    City Boy wrote:
    rjsterry wrote:
    Well they've got a bit of an axe to grind, haven't they? Anyone got anything more objective?

    TBF I included the link to give an easy reference to the many verses claimed by some to be an incitement to hate/violence, as opposed to the views of the authors of the website.

    You can then refer each verse back to the Quran itself...

    https://quran.com/

    and, having read each verse in its full context, you can then make up your own mind.

    I guess you can't get any more objective than reading each verse within the context of the Quran.

    Thanks. And thanks, Goo, for your answer.
    1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
    1980s BSA 10sp

    Liberal metropolitan, remoaner, traitor, "sympathiser", etc.
  • nickice wrote:

    By the way, if I were a moderate Muslim I'd be in favour of the deportation of jihadists and I don't really see why that's a controversial policy if they're not British citizens (of course most of them are). As for internment, that's more problematic, but again, if I were a moderate Muslim, I wouldn't be against it in principle as moderate Muslims must want these people out of their community too.

    The problem is Uk Muslim leaders are never seen in the media to be condemning these acts of terrorism.
    I'm not saying they don't, if they do it's not reported.Which doesn't help the situation.
    Hopefully official condemnation from the religious leaders will prevent extremism on both sides. Preventing the hatred backlash from the right wing but also get it into the heads of vulnerable young Muslim men that this behaviour is not the answer or the Islamic stance.
    "The Prince of Wales is now the King of France" - Calton Kirby
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