Froome run off the road

Matthewfalle

Rick Chasey wrote:

Ha, my mother's the lecturer.

My bad assumption - sorry. However I don't think your mother will appreciate you laughing at her chosen career.

I don't enjoy talking politics with people who decidedly want me out of the country. Last time that happened, it made me feel really sh!tty about the world.

I'm an immigrant (Italian). I talk to them to try and understand their way of thinking and maybe influence it. It's a bit like being a teacher - trying to educate.

I'm only using my own experience to illustrate the point.

Noted and appreciated for frankness and honesty

But, fwiw, of all the people on the forum, I'm one of the few people who has gone canvassing for a party, so by definition, i literally knock on people's doors to ask what their thoughts are on certain politics, and listen to what they say and make a note of it.

So you make a note of it? That sounds a bit ominous really.

So you don't try and sway their feelings towards your party and therefore garner a vote for your candidate?

But yeah, in my normal life I don't socialise with people with hugely differing political views, and I reckon that's the same for most people. You are clearly a better person, and more man-of-the-people than the rest of us, so give yourself a pat on your back.

]Good point well presented.

It's pretty rare I enjoy the company of someone with the type of thought process that leads them to read the express. That's just being honest about who I like and who I don't. I enjoy the company of people who share similar interests and have a similar perspective on life. I like an argument, believe it or not, but I've found in life that that's best kept to mediums where it's difficult to get really personal. It was quite a relief to be able to find others who were bummed out about Brexit for example; it was nice to feel that there were more that felt that way.

But that's not really argument is it - its just two (or more) people all with the same viewpoints saying the same things in different words.

Its a bit like me saying that carbon is great and you saying no its not, its just miles better than everything else.

Extremely slight variances in viewpoint do not an argument make.

That's just being honest about myself. Everyone thinks they have a diverse view of politics, in the same way they all think they're above average drivers. Doesn't mean it's the case.

It was quite a relief to be able to find others who were bummed out about Brexit for example; it was nice to feel that there were more that felt that way.

I'm a bit shocked that you didn't realise that you weren't alone on this.

I maintain my original statement - i bet your average guardian reader spends more time with daily mail readers than they do with express readers.[/quote]

But why though? You've made the statement but not the argument.

Thank you for taking timeout to discuss this though - much appreciated at the way you've also kept it on a really nice level and it hasn't degenerated into a slagfest like some other people on here would.

salsiccia1

Half-Dutch remoaner BLASTS Daily Mail

Challenged by open-minded integrated Italian

bobmcstuff

Matthewfalle wrote:

I maintain my original statement - i bet your average guardian reader spends more time with daily mail readers than they do with express readers.[/quote]

But why though? You've made the statement but not the argument.

Looking the readership stats given upthread suggests this would happen just because there are far, far more Mail readers (particularly if you take into account Mail Online) - you're simply much more likely to encounter Mail readers.

Matthewfalle

bobmcstuff wrote:

Matthewfalle wrote:

I maintain my original statement - i bet your average guardian reader spends more time with daily mail readers than they do with express readers.[/quote]

But why though? You've made the statement but not the argument.

Looking the readership stats given upthread suggests this would happen just because there are far, far more Mail readers (particularly if you take into account Mail Online) - you're simply much more likely to encounter Mail readers.

But that's just Mail readers in general - not specifically those who a) meet Guardian readers and b) chose the Mil over the Express because they were influenced by Guardian readers.

Surely the readership market of both papers is the same so the Daily Rag must have a USP over the Express to attract and retain its readership?

bobmcstuff

Matthewfalle wrote:

bobmcstuff wrote:

Matthewfalle wrote:

I maintain my original statement - i bet your average guardian reader spends more time with daily mail readers than they do with express readers.[/quote]

But why though? You've made the statement but not the argument.

Looking the readership stats given upthread suggests this would happen just because there are far, far more Mail readers (particularly if you take into account Mail Online) - you're simply much more likely to encounter Mail readers.

But that's just Mail readers in general - not specifically those who a) meet Guardian readers and b) chose the Mil over the Express because they were influenced by Guardian readers.

Surely the readership market of both papers is the same so the Daily Rag must have a USP over the Express to attract and retain its readership?

Sorry, you've lost me at the bit where the Mail readers were influenced to buy it by Guardian readers? I didn't realise that was part of Rick's argument.

If there are more Mail readers in general then one would assume they are more likely to be encountered by Guardian readers, all else being equal (I am assuming Mail readers aren't all reclusive hermits or something...).

If the Express's main selling point is that it contains as much hate as the Mail for 10p less then yes, it must have a USP over the Express.

A quick Googling suggests the Express readership is falling a lot http://www.campaignlive.co.uk/article/d ... co/1384781 (probably explains why they doubled their discount on the Mail from 5 to 10p) and also that they have the oldest readership of any UK newspaper http://www.pressgazette.co.uk/mail-uks- ... avour-sun/

I can't find much to back up why the Express is seeing falling readership and is less popular than the Mail - but the huge success of the Mail's online operation might have something to do with it.

Matthewfalle

Does the Express have an online operation? I must admit to not really having ever read a copy of it or googled it.

It just seems a bit strange that someone who has come from a teaching family and who professes to be a hip urbanite doesn't want to mix with other social classes, even though the Guardian, being left leaning, should theoretically be the intello-journal of choice for those with an open mind.

RichN95.

Salsiccia1 wrote:

Half-Dutch remoaner BLASTS Daily Mail

Challenged by open-minded integrated Italian

Our poll says 100% of Italians want Italians sent home


(Poll sample: 1. May not have actually said that)

bobmcstuff

When I used to be a paper boy (nearly 15 years ago mind), people who read the Express and the Mail gave the worst tips at Christmas and Easter, the Mirror and the Sun the best. I think this had more to do with income than politics - rich people don't tip their paper boys. Worst thing about the Mail was all the crap they stuck in it on Saturdays, weighed a tonne.

Rick's background sounds not too dissimilar to mine, apart from the Dutch bit (university, middle class, professional type job, blahblahblah). The closest I get to socialising with other social classes is my girlfriend's family, who are all working class Scousers (when I can figure out what they're on about...). Having said that one of my neighbours is a nurse and she's extremely right wing, kinda glad I'm British or she'd be terrifying.

dish_dash

Print readership is declining across the board. I doubt the print operations of any newspaper make money these days.

Readership of the Express has particularly been falling because Richard Desmond has treated the company as a cash cow for himself while massively cutting costs (i.e. actual journalists). The Mail still at least provides a "relatively" quality product.

Y'all do know that the Mail is actually three factions, non? Dacre at the Daily Mail, Greig at the Mail on Sunday, and Clark at MailOnline. With Rothermere + Wife playing peacekeeper. Grieg and Dacre are known to run deliberately opposing stories/angles to wind each other up...

Anyway, bottom line the Mail coverage on certain topics has been inflammatory but the Express has often been worse. I'd argue that the Express' crusades have opened the door for the Mail and Sun to follow.

For a good read on their coverage:
http://www.sub-scribe.co.uk/2016/09/the ... rting.html

Anyway, RoadPainter was quite right to call out the echo chamber...

Matthewfalle

Who's roadpainter and what's the echo chamber or is that something in the article - have skimmed through it but not read it.

dish_dash

Matthewfalle wrote:

Who's roadpainter and what's the echo chamber or is that something in the article - have skimmed through it but not read it.

Read the thread.

Richmond Racer 2

BREAKING : Bollox

That is all.

craigus89

Why would anyone read a newspaper, you know there is this thing called the internet?

Froome sucks.

Etc.

mamil314

KingstonGraham wrote:

As Dave Gorman said - when the most obvious price on the front of the Express is a massive 10p with a tiny cheaper than the Mail next to it, you might not be able to trust it to be straightforwardly honest with you.

FREE CASH
WITHDRAWALS

FocusZing

pinno

Nice shot FZ. I presume that's Froome dog reccying the Alps?

daniel_b

Does the lack of any further news reports, mean the lunatic that did this, is going to get away scot free?

craigus89

I don't think it actually happened. Froome just had a nasty spill whilst trying a Sagan wheelie and wanted some cover so he didn't look a fool. We all know he is a terrible bike handler, right?

yourpaceormine

Matthewfalle wrote:

Does the Express have an online operation?

Have you not seen the clickbait, somewhere down the bottom of this page? Loads of the exciting stories, you'd be amazed apparently at what (insert name of someone who could have been described as 'gurt lush' in the 1980s) looks like now btw, are from the Daily Express. So, yes, sadly it does.


The UN High Commissioner for Human Rights, in 2015, singled out the Sun, the Express and the Mail for their peddling of hate stories that "(were) grossly distorted and ... outright fabrications"
Wikipedia have taken a stance on using the Daily Mail as a source: “Consensus has determined that the Daily Mail (including its online version dailymail.co.uk) is generally unreliable, and its use as a reference is to be generally prohibited, especially when other more reliable sources exist. As a result, the Daily Mail should not be used for determining notability, nor should it be used as a source in articles. An edit filter should be put in place, going forward to warn editors attempting to use the Daily Mail as a reference.”

Says it all really

pinno

So 3 Tabloids that have nil credibility and has an internationally renowned reputation for 'gross distortions and fabrications' played a major part in swinging the Brexit vote which has been ostensibly the biggest democratic decision this country has made in decades and comparing or judging them is hypocritical?!

Matthewfalle

yourpaceormine wrote:

Matthewfalle wrote:

Does the Express have an online operation?

Have you not seen the clickbait, somewhere down the bottom of this page? Loads of the exciting stories, you'd be amazed apparently at what (insert name of someone who could have been described as 'gurt lush' in the 1980s) looks like now btw, are from the Daily Express. So, yes, sadly it does.


The UN High Commissioner for Human Rights, in 2015, singled out the Sun, the Express and the Mail for their peddling of hate stories that "(were) grossly distorted and ... outright fabrications"
Wikipedia have taken a stance on using the Daily Mail as a source: “Consensus has determined that the Daily Mail (including its online version dailymail.co.uk) is generally ungreliable, and its use as a reference is to be generally prohibited, especially when other more reliable sources exist. As a result, the Daily Mail should not be used for determining notability, nor should it be used as a source in articles. An edit filter should be put in place, going forward to warn editors attempting to use the Daily Mail as a reference.”

Says it all really

I didn't realise those were from the express - I thought they were US ones (have never clicked on them to see).

The Express did raise some smiles in Casa MF a couple of years ago when they started giving free loaves of bread away with every paper bought.

And I must admit to once paying for a copy of the Daily Rag a few years ago: they were offering free Lego with every paper bought, so I bought the paper, got my Lego then immediately handed the paper back to the newsagent. He seemed to understand my feelings.

salsiccia1

Matthewfalle wrote:

And I must admit to once paying for a copy of the Daily Rag a few years ago: they were offering free Lego with every paper bought, so I bought the paper, got my Lego then immediately handed the paper back to the newsagent. He seemed to understand my feelings.

Hat

dish_dash

Vaguely related to the OT discussion.

From Popbitch

Apparently the type of people who still pick up a newspaper in the supermarket are more likely to stick incontinence pads in their baskets than chocolate bars.

above_the_cows

I have thoroughly enjoyed catching up with this thread and realising the still alarming assumptions some people make about careers and gender...

wallace_and_gromit

bobmcstuff wrote:

I think if I spent the cafe stop asking my fellow riders what newspaper they read I would come back next week to find the meeting point had been changed without my knowledge...

Quite so. The political views of club-mates are largely irrelevant. What counts is whether they do their time in wind!

FocusZing

m.r.m.

Great photo!

dailuggs

FocusZing wrote:

What are those wing things he's got on?

Dorset_Boy

dailuggs wrote:

FocusZing wrote:

What are those wing things he's got on?

He fills his bidons with Red Bull?

FocusZing

Basically the point is Froome is so in the zone the two carrion crows don't bother him.