Froome run off the road

RichN95.

RoadPainter wrote:

ddraver wrote:

There are a couple of 100 + page threads in Cake Stop for this discussion.

Interested to understand why you felt the previous political posts on this thread didn't merit this response?

The political subject was a brief diversion which had long been dropped. Not point reviving it.

RoadPainter

RichN95 wrote:

RoadPainter wrote:

ddraver wrote:

There are a couple of 100 + page threads in Cake Stop for this discussion.

Interested to understand why you felt the previous political posts on this thread didn't merit this response?

The political subject was a brief diversion which had long been dropped. Not point reviving it.

It was about a page of posts at the end of last week, apologies for responding to something from a couple of days ago. I must try to spend more time on here, or maybe not!

pinno

Comparing the DM with the Guardian is rather spurious.
One is traditionally a tabloid, one is a broadsheet. It is without doubt that the DM is a tabloid. If you don't agree, do a quick google. Here, i'll even post the question and you can copy/paste it in your search bar:

Is the Daily Mail a tabloid?

noun
1.
a newspaper whose pages, usually five columns wide, are about one-half the size of a standard-sized newspaper page.
2.
a newspaper this size concentrating on sensational and lurid news, usually heavily illustrated.
3.
a short form or version; condensation; synopsis; summary.
adjective
4.
compressed or condensed in or as if in a tabloid:
a tabloid article; a tabloid account of the adventure.
5.
luridly or vulgarly sensational.

Broadsheet:

NOUN

1A large piece of paper printed with information on one side only.
1.1 A newspaper with a large format, regarded as more serious and less sensationalist than tabloids.

The Daily Heil has a daily circulation of 1.5m and the difference in the referendum vote was 1,269,501. It is more than feasible that the DM and other tabloids were critical in swinging the Brexit vote. Never mind the other Brexit sympathetic tabloids of which there are more than those who were espousing the virtues of staying (Mirror).
So the logic is, the very fact that the Daily Mail and other tabloids were fuelling the Brexit vote and that the Tabloids use sensationalism, nationalism to sell papers but more fundamentally: news that is extremely distorted, means that a hefty percentage of those who voted were swayed by the tabloids. Therefore, the hypocrisy claim is flawed because the comparison is flawed.

The total daily readership of the Tabloids is 4.169 million (not including the Daily Mirror). The total readership of the broadsheets (never mind the fact that many were sympathetic to the leave campaign) is 3,896 million.

It is without doubt that the pi$$ poor press and the pi$$ poor journalism has enormous impact on the way we vote. You could rationally conclude that had the DM said 'vote to stay in the EU', we would probably have voted to remain.
Considering that the vast majority of the press in terms of readership figures were pro leave, it is surprising that the final vote was split by a mere 1.26 million.

pinno

...

RichN95.

RoadPainter wrote:

RichN95 wrote:

RoadPainter wrote:

ddraver wrote:

There are a couple of 100 + page threads in Cake Stop for this discussion.

Interested to understand why you felt the previous political posts on this thread didn't merit this response?

The political subject was a brief diversion which had long been dropped. Not point reviving it.

It was about a page of posts at the end of last week, apologies for responding to something from a couple of days ago. I must try to spend more time on here, or maybe not!

As a general rule of thumb of internet forums - if a thread goes off topic, it tends to be in the moment, so if no-one has mentioned it for a couple of days it's been shelved.

Bringing it up again makes you look like a man raving about how good The Wire is in 2017.

bobmcstuff

To be fair, The Wire is really good...

kingstongraham

I prefer the West Wing

pinno

I didn't like the pills they gave me in the West Wing.

dish_dash

TBF to RoadPainter he is on the money in his comments, uncomfortable as they may be.

Worth noting also that the Guardian isn't a broadsheet - it's berliner sized. And if you read the website regularly, as I do, you will know that they publish all manner of sensationalist dross...

I'm no fan but it does baffle me that the Mail gets way more hate than the Express (which actually stoked the immigration story for many many years) or the Sun.

RichN95.

dish_dash wrote:

I'm no fan but it does baffle me that the Mail gets way more hate than the Express (which actually stoked the immigration story for many many years) or the Sun.

The Mail has around four times the circulation the Express does. And the Sun gets plenty of hate, but it's also not as rigid and consistent in it's politics as the Mail, it tends to reflect the public mood.

kingstongraham

The Mail is much more visible online.

dish_dash

KingstonGraham wrote:

The Mail is much more visible online.

i.e. easier to link to for all those messages of outrage on twitter/facebook?

FocusZing

...

pinno

I think you missed the context of my post, i'e the contents of Tabloids vs Broadsheets.
You can alter the argument slightly by comparing a pro brexit broadsheet vs a pro brexit tabloid. At least, one could reasonably assume that the broadsheet is presenting a rational argument (however bias) whereas the tabloid will be spouting pure rubbish.

rick_chasey

dish_dash wrote:

I'm no fan but it does baffle me that the Mail gets way more hate than the Express (which actually stoked the immigration story for many many years) or the Sun.

Because the type of person who is critical of that type of paper doesn't come into contact with express or sun readers all that often, unless they're white van man builder types, but they do come into contact with mail readers regularly.

Also, if you actually read the physical paper, a lot of it is designed specifically to bait left wing journos into a spat, and they'll even reference that they did that in other articles.

kingstongraham

dish_dash wrote:

KingstonGraham wrote:

The Mail is much more visible online.

i.e. easier to link to for all those messages of outrage on twitter/facebook?

That, plus it is the most visited English language newspaper site in the world. So it is likely to get more attention.

Matthewfalle

Rick Chasey wrote:

dish_dash wrote:

Because the type of person who is critical of that type of paper doesn't come into contact with express or sun readers all that often, unless they're white van man builder types,
.

Apart from down the pub. In the workplace. In the gym. At the cycle/football/rugby club. At the school gates. At other people's houses. At beavers/cubs/scouts.

Or don't you venture thereforth?

rick_chasey

Matthewfalle wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

Because the type of person who is critical of that type of paper doesn't come into contact with express or sun readers all that often, unless they're white van man builder types,
.

Apart from down the pub. In the workplace. In the gym. At the cycle/football/rugby club. At the school gates. At other people's houses. At beavers/cubs/scouts.

Or don't you venture thereforth?

Pub? I don't talk to strangers. I go with friends.

Workplace? A mixture of telegraph, times, the mail, and the guardian.

Gym? I don't go to the gym, and even if I did, I sure as sh!t wouldn't speak to anyone.

Cycle club? Not the chaps I cycle with.

School gates? Don't have kids.

Other people's houses? I would only visit friends.

etc etc.


At least I'm honest.

Matthewfalle

Honest with a very small social circle ..........

rick_chasey

Matthewfalle wrote:

Honest with a very small social circle ..........

Mate, i'm half Dutch and was brought up in Cambridge by a Cambridge uni lecturer.

Do you honestly think I would want to spend a lot of time with people who would enjoy reading the express?

I mean come on, get real. Don't come at me with all this inverse intellectual and social snobbery.

bobmcstuff

Rick Chasey wrote:

Matthewfalle wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

Because the type of person who is critical of that type of paper doesn't come into contact with express or sun readers all that often, unless they're white van man builder types,
.

Apart from down the pub. In the workplace. In the gym. At the cycle/football/rugby club. At the school gates. At other people's houses. At beavers/cubs/scouts.

Or don't you venture thereforth?

Cycle club? Not the chaps I cycle with.

I think if I spent the cafe stop asking my fellow riders what newspaper they read I would come back next week to find the meeting point had been changed without my knowledge...

Having said that, based on the Brexit response I doubt my bike club has many Express/Sun readers.

I'm pretty sure the readership of actual physical newspapers in my social group is very, very low these days anyway.

FocusZing

Great shot.

Sh1t happens, get back up, next...

Matthewfalle

Rick Chasey wrote:

Matthewfalle wrote:

Honest with a very small social circle ..........

Mate, i'm half Dutch and was brought up in Cambridge by a Cambridge uni lecturer.

Do you honestly think I would want to spend a lot of time with people who would enjoy reading the express?

I mean come on, get real. Don't come at me with all this inverse intellectual and social snobbery.

Honestly, what has that got to do with the how bread is sliced? One of your parents came from a different country and your father was a teacher in the shires. Doesn't mean that you can look down on other people with different backgrounds and interests.

We all know lecturers/equivs/superiors - it doesn't make you any better than us.

Methinks you protest too much. Try mixing a bit out of your comfort zone - you may find it strangely exciting.

rick_chasey

Matthewfalle wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

Matthewfalle wrote:

Honest with a very small social circle ..........

Mate, i'm half Dutch and was brought up in Cambridge by a Cambridge uni lecturer.

Do you honestly think I would want to spend a lot of time with people who would enjoy reading the express?

I mean come on, get real. Don't come at me with all this inverse intellectual and social snobbery.

Honestly, what has that got to do with the how bread is sliced? One of your parents came from a different country and your father was a teacher in the shires. Doesn't mean that you can look down on other people with different backgrounds and interests.

We all know lecturers/equivs/superiors - it doesn't make you any better than us.

Methinks you protest too much. Try mixing a bit out of your comfort zone - you may find it strangely exciting.

What am I protesting?

And who am I saying I am better than?

rick_chasey

Those papers are anti immigrant (I am one) and regualrly hate on people in universities as not "living in the real world".

Why would I want to spend time with someone who enjoys and likely agrees with that?

Matthewfalle

Rick Chasey wrote:

Those papers are anti immigrant (I am one) and regualrly hate on people in universities as not "living in the real world".

Why would I want to spend time with someone who enjoys and likely agrees with that?

Perhaps to add different viewpoints to you views? Shurely your father as a teacher would have wanted to take all facts, analyse them, decide what your feelings are, etc etc. He surely couldn't have condoned a blinkered view of the world?

Don't you also think that although they may read awful newspapers they may also have different qualities - even hedge fund managers read awful newspapers.

I'm intrigued.

rick_chasey

Matthewfalle wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

Those papers are anti immigrant (I am one) and regualrly hate on people in universities as not "living in the real world".

Why would I want to spend time with someone who enjoys and likely agrees with that?

Perhaps to add different viewpoints to you views? Shurely your father as a teacher would have wanted to take all facts, analyse them, decide what your feelings are, etc etc. He surely couldn't have condoned a blinkered view of the world?

Don't you also think that although they may read awful newspapers they may also have different qualities - even hedge fund managers read awful newspapers.

I'm intrigued.

Ha, my mother's the lecturer.

I don't enjoy talking politics with people who decidedly want me out of the country. Last time that happened, it made me feel really sh!tty about the world.

I'm only using my own experience to illustrate the point.

But, fwiw, of all the people on the forum, I'm one of the few people who has gone canvassing for a party, so by definition, i literally knock on people's doors to ask what their thoughts are on certain politics, and listen to what they say and make a note of it.

But yeah, in my normal life I don't socialise with people with hugely differing political views, and I reckon that's the same for most people. You are clearly a better person, and more man-of-the-people than the rest of us, so give yourself a pat on your back.

It's pretty rare I enjoy the company of someone with the type of thought process that leads them to read the express. That's just being honest about who I like and who I don't. I enjoy the company of people who share similar interests and have a similar perspective on life. I like an argument, believe it or not, but I've found in life that that's best kept to mediums where it's difficult to get really personal. It was quite a relief to be able to find others who were bummed out about Brexit for example; it was nice to feel that there were more that felt that way.

That's just being honest about myself. Everyone thinks they have a diverse view of politics, in the same way they all think they're above average drivers. Doesn't mean it's the case.

I maintain my original statement - i bet your average guardian reader spends more time with daily mail readers than they do with express readers.

gweeds

The Mail is edited by venal sociopath Paul Dacre.

If that's your worldview you can chortle my balls.

pinno

I am not going to 'chortle your balls' and that's that.

kingstongraham

As Dave Gorman said - when the most obvious price on the front of the Express is a massive 10p with a tiny cheaper than the Mail next to it, you might not be able to trust it to be straightforwardly honest with you.