Ronde van Vlaanderen 2017 *spoilers*

hanshotfirst

Sagan blaming the jacket on his Instagram.

https://www.instagram.com/p/BSbN96DjtZb ... =petosagan

He does say he was too close to the barrier and that these things happen so he acknowledges that it was pretty much his own fault.. but not really.

thegibdog

Yeah that video looks to be the most conclusive. The jacket caused the crash but he put himself at risk by riding there in the first place.

Vino'sGhost

LOL he wasn't flattered, Sagan was faced with choices, the same choices as Gilbert and with hours of racing and a level of exhaustion in his leg made a mistake that might not otherwise have been made.

Richj

more footage of Sagan's crash

http://www.cyclingweekly.com/news/racin ... ium=Social

gweeds

See that looks like he loses the bike before the jacket even touches him. Front wheel flicks left fast and hits the foot of the barrier.

RichN95.

Richj wrote:

more footage of Sagan's crash

http://www.cyclingweekly.com/news/racin ... ium=Social

That's probably the best one.

pinno

Rick Chasey wrote:

He had the whole road - just like Gilbert did.

Maybe he was annoyed Gilbert had pulled the gap out in the run up to the climb.

It was obvious that Sagan was trying to make life as hard as possible for GVA by riding on the edge of the road, given GVA's form and he was pushing on hard just like he did in MSR. Given the speed and strength of his attack on the Poggio:
Did Sagan fancy his chances of catching PG on his own? Did he want to dent GVA's energy/optimism? Did he want to work with GVA and then end up in a sprint with him? I don't think so. Either way, if he was to carry GVA with him, he would want to make him suffer as much as he could and if he dropped him, he probably would have the strength to hold GVA off. GVA would have been virtually on his own in a chase.
Difficult to weigh up.

Gilbert's win is second only in excitement to the Andre Tchmil vs Museeuw last 45k's of Paris Roubaix, 1994.

kingstongraham

thegibdog wrote:

Yeah that video looks to be the most conclusive. The jacket caused the crash but he put himself at risk by riding there in the first place.

It's not like the jacket leapt out at him.

RichN95.

Delete

thegibdog

I think we all know the real reason for Sagan's crash:

tailwindhome

rick_chasey

Terpstra

vinnymarsden

Got to be honest here... the spectator cant really be blamed surely..or is this going to be another long running thing..bit like JiffyGate...we now have JacketGate!!!
I personally think Sagan, was going WAY WAY too fast to be that close to the barriers..he was trying to avoid the cobbles by running in the edge...but in so doing he brushed that jacket..nothing more..I think when you watch closely..he's well past it before the fall even starts, and he's not tangled up in it is he.
I like Sagan, one of my fave riders, and to be fair to him I don't think he's had a pop at the fans...but I think if he looks again it was HIS own fault...no one else's...oh hang on , surely Team Sky have to shoulder some of the blame...the Daily Mail will ensure that!!

Richmond Racer 2

Rick Chasey wrote:

Terpstra

Sagan's *sad face* at his glasses, now spread across East and West Flanders

Vino'sGhost

VinnyMarsden wrote:

Got to be honest here... the spectator cant really be blamed surely..or is this going to be another long running thing..bit like JiffyGate...we now have JacketGate!!!
I personally think Sagan, was going WAY WAY too fast to be that close to the barriers..he was trying to avoid the cobbles by running in the edge...but in so doing he brushed that jacket..nothing more..I think when you watch closely..he's well past it before the fall even starts, and he's not tangled up in it is he.
I like Sagan, one of my fave riders, and to be fair to him I don't think he's had a pop at the fans...but I think if he looks again it was HIS own fault...no one else's...oh hang on , surely Team Sky have to shoulder some of the blame...the Daily Mail will ensure that!!

this. its no ones fault but Sagans. Its a risk he took riding next to the barriers, it's not like hes never seen a fan filled hospitality area before. Making duff decisions is a feature of long classics.

You roll your dice and sometimes it works (Gilbert) and sometimes it doesnt (Sagan). Sometimes theres just bad luck (
Rowe)

ddraver

dish_dash wrote:

1. Delighted to know that Macaloon is alive! I was genuinely worried...
2. Cracking race, impressive from Pip. He looks great in the natchamps kit and what a way to show it off!
3. Rick called it for Pip as it happened. Hat
4. Why do we have to make this about sodding Sagan? Question, would Boonen have kept Sagan under control if his bike hadn't died.
5. Poor Sep Though my is testing my patience... If he's not careful I might replace him with Terpstra
6. Kirby is an idiot.
7. Missed being roadside... making plans for next year now!

*Applause* Especially 6.

To answer Rick''s question way back, Yes I will accept that QSF played a tactical blinder. That said, the romantic in me still hopes they go all in for Boonen next week (which I probably won't get to see either).

Sagan's own fault but still a d1ck place to put a jacket...

kingstonian

ddraver wrote:

(where did you see it?)

I'm super confused.

Your message translates as "Where is the party?" so did you mean to say something else ? Or were you super happy at Rowe being wiped out?

I watched the Eurosport highlights yesterday eve, they showed the crash and seemed to believe the guy in front caught his front wheel in a gap running along the middle of the road, which took his front wheel out and Rowe had no chance to avoid him

dish_dash

TailWindHome wrote:

rick_chasey

Richmond Racer 2 wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

Terpstra

Sagan's *sad face* at his glasses, now spread across East and West Flanders

I'll dig around and see if anyone's asked him about it.

If it was any other rider, I'd have said it's an accident.....

itboffin

I'm not buying the jacket as the root cause, it barely touched him yet his wheel violently jumps towards the barrier then hits the feet, i say he hit a bad angled cobble whilst riding too close to the barriers and had no where to go but down.

rick_chasey

Belgian News making the point GvA and Sagan lost the race, not on the Kwaremont with the jumper, but on the Muur.

Why were they so far back?

m.r.m.

Without question the handlebar got snagged on the jacket which caused the wheel to turn left and hit the barrier. After seeing all the footage I don't think there can be any doubt about this.

That being said, Gilbert would not have been caught. He was able to maintain the gap pretty much until the end and none of us know if he couldn't have gone harder on the final flat where it was clear he was in the clear. It was a marvelous ride!

pinno

M.R.M. wrote:

That being said, Gilbert would not have been caught.

Hmm... i'm not sure. A determined 2 up TT from Sagan and GVA may have caught him. Had the gap come down quicker than it did, maybe PG would have lost a tiny bit of belief, who knows? We don't need to speculate whether he would have been caught or not to somehow see the win as somehow genuine and not by default. It was a hell of a win and suddenly being on his own was not in the plan but despite this he did win and he did win from a long way out. Nothing can take that away.
We can speculate about a determined effort form PS and GVA but there's some if's and buts there too.

m.r.m.

I don't really disagree. Just wanted to make the point that the win was earned and there is no point in diminishing that due to whatever else happened a minute or more behind (not that you are saying that).

pinno

M.R.M. wrote:

I don't really disagree. Just wanted to make the point that the win was earned and there is no point in diminishing that due to whatever else happened a minute or more behind (not that you are saying that).

You mean you don't want a fight around the back of Greggs in the car park? :roll:

m.r.m.

Since you're a cyclist I think I can take you. :P

Vino'sGhost

Pinno wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

He had the whole road - just like Gilbert did.

M
Gilbert's win is second only in excitement to the Andre Tchmil vs Museeuw last 45k's of Paris Roubaix, 1994.

AHHHHH the days when there used to be wet and muddy PR and i think snowy that year too?

Vino'sGhost

was it Tchmil that dislocated his shoulder and smashed it back into place against the team car?

takethehighroad

It doesn't matter what caused the crash, as Gilbert would have won even with it. Besides, isn't staying on your bike part and parcel of the Classics?

People have apportioned at least some, if not a big chunk, of the blame to Sagan, so there's absolute no chance Gilbert was gifted this win.

However, whilst he does snag the jacket I think it's more likely to be a cobble, as Naesen's wheel also snags to the left, long after the jacket has been ripped off the hoarding. It's in that video from underneath the barriers.

thegibdog

TakeTheHighRoad wrote:

However, whilst he does snag the jacket I think it's more likely to be a cobble, as Naesen's wheel also snags to the left, long after the jacket has been ripped off the hoarding. It's in that video from underneath the barriers.

He also hit the jacket, bringing it down along with the advertising banner. You can see it in the side on video.

As you say though it doesn't detract from Gilbert's victory. The greatest I've seen since I've been watching cycling.

Just watching the '94 Paris-Roubaix by the way, have posted the youtube link on th PR thread.