Condor Potenza (now Dolan Dual) thoughts?

ugo.santalucia

It seems very good value for a full carbon frameset that ticks all my personal boxes (reasonable clearance for bigger tyres, BSA bottom bracket... thoughts/alternatives with a decent resale value (so NO Planet x/Rose/Ribble etc.)?

arlowood

ugo.santalucia wrote:

It seems very good value for a full carbon frameset that ticks all my personal boxes (reasonable clearance for bigger tyres, BSA bottom bracket... thoughts/alternatives with a decent resale value (so NO Planet x/Rose/Ribble etc.)?

Looks great although the internal cable routing would cause me a few issues. I like things nice and simple and would balk at buying a frame where the cabling might take minutes but equally could take hours if the initial design and set-up is suspect.

Not much out there as far as I can see. One option might be the Tifosi CK2 - external cabling, BSA threaded BB, mudguard eyelets. Negatives might be the restricted tyre clearance - I think 25mm is the max although that might be to allow mudguards so bigger tyres could be possible

http://www.fatbirds.co.uk/24277/product ... meset.aspx

Other option is the Genesis Datum but this is a disc frameset. Has huge tyre clearance but again it's internal cabling and a BB86 bottom bracket - tho you could fit a decent adaptor

http://www.genesisbikes.co.uk/bikes/adv ... m/datum-fs

ugo.santalucia

I have internal cabling on my Ridley and it's all pretty simple, it depends how it is designed.

The Tifosi is a non starter, I can't get excited about buying a Tifosi frame... besides, I don't want something that in 2-3 years time I have to take to the dump because nobody wants it second hand...

As for Genesis, I'd like to move away from discs this time, would like a proper light bike, something that builds under 8 kg without spending too much. Moreover, given my previous dealings with Madison, I don't want another Genesis

menthel

It is the only one of their frames that does not have the "made in Italy" branding all over it- not sure exactly where it is made and its provenance. I am sure that they would tell you if that bothers you. Otherwise, it does look like a decent frame and the black/blue colourway does look good.

ugo.santalucia

menthel wrote:

It is the only one of their frames that does not have the "made in Italy" branding all over it- not sure exactly where it is made and its provenance. I am sure that they would tell you if that bothers you. Otherwise, it does look like a decent frame and the black/blue colourway does look good.

I kind of hate the black/blue, but I do like the black and green... of course the Baracchi is nicer, but also spendier!

The alternative is an Italia RC, which you did own, thoughts?

menthel

ugo.santalucia wrote:

menthel wrote:

It is the only one of their frames that does not have the "made in Italy" branding all over it- not sure exactly where it is made and its provenance. I am sure that they would tell you if that bothers you. Otherwise, it does look like a decent frame and the black/blue colourway does look good.

I kind of hate the black/blue, but I do like the black and green... of course the Baracchi is nicer, but also spendier!

The alternative is an Italia RC, which you did own, thoughts?

The Baracchi is stunning, even more so in the flesh!

I had an Italia, a more relaxed frame than the RC but having ridden the Italia for a long time Condor know a thing or two about Alu frames. The Condor team have done some racing on the Italia RC so it has some pedigree.

I personally would go for a Super Acciaio but then you probably have enough steel frames.

ugo.santalucia

menthel wrote:

ugo.santalucia wrote:

menthel wrote:

It is the only one of their frames that does not have the "made in Italy" branding all over it- not sure exactly where it is made and its provenance. I am sure that they would tell you if that bothers you. Otherwise, it does look like a decent frame and the black/blue colourway does look good.

I kind of hate the black/blue, but I do like the black and green... of course the Baracchi is nicer, but also spendier!

The alternative is an Italia RC, which you did own, thoughts?

The Baracchi is stunning, even more so in the flesh!

I had an Italia, a more relaxed frame than the RC but having ridden the Italia for a long time Condor know a thing or two about Alu frames. The Condor team have done some racing on the Italia RC so it has some pedigree.

I personally would go for a Super Acciaio but then you probably have enough steel frames.

I like the super acciaio, but I don't know how they managed to make it into a 1.8 kg frame... it's not a good starting point to build a light bike... :?

arlowood

Couple of others I've truffled out that have a standard BSA BB. Not sure if the Bianchi is available as a frame only but if you're really desperate, there's always the option of buying the full bike and stripping it so that you can sell off the bits you don't want and fit those you do

Bianchi Intrepida

https://www.evanscycles.com/bianchi-int ... e-EV288122

Cinelli Saetta

https://www.evanscycles.com/cinelli-sae ... 0wodpJAEWA

ugo.santalucia

arlowood wrote:

Cinelli Saetta

https://www.evanscycles.com/cinelli-sae ... 0wodpJAEWA

The downside of the Cinelli is the 1/8 to 1/4 steerer... by experience it is a nightmare size should anything go wrong

I'm getting the feeling the all world is moving to discs and there is a decresing number of interesting frames for rim brakes... Specialized have got rid of the Roubaix rim frame all togheter, which is a shame as it was one of the few frames with good clearance...

Maybe it's a lost battle

timothyw

I'm confused.

You want big tyre clearance but a lightweight frame/build? Big tyres are heavy.

And the Condor Potenza doesn't appear to have particularly large tyre clearance from the shots on the website?

What size tyres are we talking here?

And unless it's on sale somewhere it seems kinda spendy at £1300 when you can get lots of perfectly decent carbon framed complete bikes for less - Giant Propel and TCR spring to mind, but lots more out there.

Limiting yourself to BSA bottom brackets is also kinda self defeating in a lightweight frame. It's always going to be lighter (and stronger) in press fit. The Shimano BB86 standard is perfectly sane, it's bb30 that's a bit rubbish (and that can be worked around with converter bottom brackets).

Worst of all though, visually the Potenza does nothing for me. If it floats your boat though, go for it.

dinyull

What do you class as bigger tyres?

For £1300 I'd be looking at a full build and selling the bits not needed.

Supersix (although BB30) can be had for £800 and yo'd (probably) get 25's on.

Anything over 25's and your looking at a racy cx bike.....but I suspect you already know that.

ugo.santalucia

Yeah... clearance is a deal breaker... I'm sold on tubeless and I get decent prices on 28 mm tyres (Sector, Padrone etc), which I find very adequate to the crappy tarmac we have in this country... also, tubelss and bigger tyres make sense for a lot of other reasons, lower pressure seals quicker and more effectively. Bigger tyres are only marginally heavier, 50 grams or so.

Discs, once you factor rotors, heavier calipers, stronger wheels, wider hubs and so on you are almost 1 kg heavier like for like.

A Ridley Fenix would take any tyre, but boy it ain't cheap!

The TCR is nice, but it has zero clearance

As always, a lot of choice, but almost no choice

phil485

I think that Tifosi is out of the same mould as the Dolan Dual. Again not certain about the resale in a few years time, but I've enjoyed riding mine this winter.

dinyull

If it's the same mould as the Dual, they're asking for a lot of money. Obvs carbon/layup might be different but the Dual is an old design (5 years +) as it is and can be had for less than £600.

ugo.santalucia

Dinyull wrote:

If it's the same mould as the Dual, they're asking for a lot of money. Obvs carbon/layup might be different but the Dual is an old design (5 years +) as it is and can be had for less than £600.

Actually the dual seems to tick all the boxes... it's not a looker, but the black/white version is reasonably sober... at that price is worth a punt for sure... :shock:

timothyw

Alloy steerer on the fork must be adding a bit to the weight though?

dinyull

Check if they have any "damaged". Usually just paint imperfections, but offered with over £100 off.

With it being an old design I'd be surprised if the current trend of 28mm fit?

But I'd class their frames in the same class of Planet X and Ribble. Chinese open mould etc.

dinyull

Before someone else points it out:

I'm aware of Terry Dolan's history/reputation as a frame builder. But most of the fully built bikes they sell (certainly the older ones) are Chinese open mould.

ugo.santalucia

Dinyull wrote:

Check if they have any "damaged". Usually just paint imperfections, but offered with over £100 off.

With it being an old design I'd be surprised if the current trend of 28mm fit?

But I'd class their frames in the same class of Planet X and Ribble. Chinese open mould etc.

It takes mudguards, so without them you can fit 28 mm tyres... I have just asked... I don't have a problem with Chinese frames, as long as they have been around and they are reputable

dinyull

Yeah, I did think that as I was typing it haha.

ugo.santalucia

TimothyW wrote:

Alloy steerer on the fork must be adding a bit to the weight though?

It does... But there are advantages to an alloy steerer too... fork upgrades to Columbus are not expensive

arlowood

Another slightly left-field offering is the Dedacciai Gladiatore II

http://www.dedacciaistrada.com/index.ph ... Itemid=148

BSA BB, Internal cables with mechanical/electronic gear options. The red/black colourway looks OK. No info on max tyre clearances that I can find. A shade under 1.4kg for a med frame/fork combo

trek_dan

I know you can't buy them as a frameset only but my Focus Cayo is a little over 8kg (with 105 and Archetypes) and has plenty clearance with 25C GP400S2 (which actually measure 27mm on my Archetypes) so assume would fit 28 at a push. Its a slightly older model but frame geo doesn't look like its changed much over the years.
Also weren't you insisting everyone who doesn't want disc brakes was a luddite who refuses to move with the times?

ugo.santalucia

arlowood wrote:

Another slightly left-field offering is the Dedacciai Gladiatore II

http://www.dedacciaistrada.com/index.ph ... Itemid=148

BSA BB, Internal cables with mechanical/electronic gear options. The red/black colourway looks OK. No info on max tyre clearances that I can find. A shade under 1.4kg for a med frame/fork combo

Nice, but I suspect poor clearance

ugo.santalucia

trek_dan wrote:

Also weren't you insisting everyone who doesn't want disc brakes was a luddite who refuses to move with the times?

Yes, those who don't want to move based on principle are a bit luddite... however, I have moved to discs well before the industry told me to, it was January 2010.

Problem is over the past 3 years discs have become a jungle of standards with 4 different locking systems and 3 different caliper fixings, that combined with 2 non interchangeable rotor sizes and 3 different hub widths. Then of course all things Shimano have priced up by approximately 20% and if I was to look at an 8 kg bike with discs, it's very difficult to do it without spending several thousand pounds.

I am also hopeful that the arrival of Open PRO Exalith means a step up in performance and durability of rim brakes

I am not stepping back, I am just trying to be sensible about it

menthel

I know that you think the name is silly but have you spoken to the guys at Aprire? A little more than the Potenza but they may have the clearance. Mine has archetypes and some 25s (michelin of some sort) that come up big without any issues.

de_sisti

I have a Dolan Dual which takes 25mm tyres and mudguards. (black now mudguards adorn the bike)

ugo.santalucia

menthel wrote:

I know that you think the name is silly but have you spoken to the guys at Aprire? A little more than the Potenza but they may have the clearance. Mine has archetypes and some 25s (michelin of some sort) that come up big without any issues.

The thing is if I get into the 1000 quid + range, then I want something that holds some value... Condor do looking at Ebay, other brands just don't have any resale value and I am not looking for a frame for life... 2-3 years seem to be the norm for me.
Bear in mind last year I bought a near new Ridley frame which retailed for 800 quid for 200 and that's a Ridley, so not exactly an unknown brand, they sponsor PRO teams

Another option is to look for a second hand Spesc Roubaix SL something, but people on Ebay seem to think they are made of gold

letap73

Looking at ebay there seems to be some interesting choices:

A Colnago C59 50s bike with Dura ace for £2000 - okay a full bike, but a Colnago keeps it value.
A Parlee frame sold by a poster on BR who seems pretty legit - Parlee warranties can apparently transfer.
A number of Colnago C40 frames for under £1000 - keeps it value most definitely.

ugo.santalucia

letap73 wrote:

Looking at ebay there seems to be some interesting choices:

A Colnago C59 50s bike with Dura ace for £2000 - okay a full bike, but a Colnago keeps it value.
A Parlee frame sold by a poster on BR who seems pretty legit - Parlee warranties can apparently transfer.
A number of Colnago C40 frames for under £1000 - keeps it value most definitely.

The C40 is the most successful frame ever, it's no wonder it's a hit... I'd love one myself

raisinberry777

If tyre clearance is what you're after though, I wouldn't bother with an older Colnago. If the C40 geometry is anything like my Dream (which I suspect it mostly is) it won't fit anything bigger than a 23mm tyre (Vittoria Rubino) on a 17mm internal width rim.