CMS hearings into the alleged culture of doping and bullying at British Cycling

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Comments

  • tim000
    tim000 Posts: 718
    weekendcyclingfan wrote:
    tim000 wrote:
    if only we could choose when we are ill .wouldn`t life be great .

    True, Wiggins always fell ill just before the Tour and one Giro so he could be injected with kenacort and Freeman coincidentally falls ill the day before the CMS hearing to not provide evidence.

    Completely normal in the world of Sky, British Cycling and Unicorns (no offense to unicorns intended).

    8)
    how do you know this . he could have taken it at other times , out of comp . no TUE needed . again , no facts to back up your bollockz
  • carbonclem
    carbonclem Posts: 1,784
    I cant get enough of the hilarious references on Twitter to Freeman needing a TUE. l o l
    2020/2021/2022 Metric Century Challenge Winner
  • Dorset_Boy
    Dorset_Boy Posts: 7,556
    I told the troll to stop posting about Freeman and the CMS on the Doping in other Sports thread.
    He's chosen to start this one, and people have responded rather than ignoring it....... again!
  • flasher
    flasher Posts: 1,734
    Live from the Cycling inquiry.

    Nicole Sapstead, Chief Executive, UK Anti-Doping: says that UK Anti-Doping's investigation is not concluded yet.

    "We have no evidence that there has been any sort of cover up or tampering, that is an incredibly serious allegation," she says.

    "At this time we have no evidence to pursue such a charge against anyone.
  • Rodrego Hernandez
    Rodrego Hernandez Posts: 1,436
    Poor record keeping and looking dodgy aren't against the anti-doping rules. Luckily!
  • blazing_saddles
    blazing_saddles Posts: 22,725
    Rodrego Hernandez wrote:
    Poor record keeping and looking dodgy aren't against the anti-doping rules. Luckily!

    IF BC were a bank it would be poor record keeping. :wink:
    "Science is a tool for cheaters". An anonymous French PE teacher.
  • carbonclem
    carbonclem Posts: 1,784
    I would have to say, as much as this enquiry is a dogs breakfast and the line of questioning from the MP's is woeful, Freemans no show and the subsequent announcement that he never uploaded medical data as he was meant to, and then his laptop was stolen, is either an awful series of events or a shocking story! Either way, he should be toast. I would 'assume' his absence is related to this situation? Whatever you think big picture, this is a nightmare.
    2020/2021/2022 Metric Century Challenge Winner
  • joe2008
    joe2008 Posts: 1,531
    Flasher wrote:
    Live from the Cycling inquiry.

    Nicole Sapstead, Chief Executive, UK Anti-Doping: says that UK Anti-Doping's investigation is not concluded yet.

    "We have no evidence that there has been any sort of cover up or tampering, that is an incredibly serious allegation," she says.

    "At this time we have no evidence to pursue such a charge against anyone.

    In the context of deleting computer files - Freeman just didn't share them via Dropbox (as was required) and then 'lost' the laptop instead.

    Cope: "maybe I fiddled my expenses, we all do that don't we..." what a plonker.
  • cq20
    cq20 Posts: 207
    joe2008 wrote:

    Cope: "maybe I fiddled my expenses, we all do that don't we..." what a plonker.
    Remember he was speaking to MPs. Maybe he was just explaining things in terms that they would understand.
  • Hinaultscrapcousin
    Hinaultscrapcousin Posts: 647
    Even if there was no doping going on this all sounds ridiculously dodgy. No wonder Freeman hasn't turned up. Excessive amount of triamcinolone for a single rider.
  • fat daddy
    fat daddy Posts: 2,605
    I want to hear how he said that ..... depending on the tone that could have just been a dig at the MPs and the media hype of them fiddling expenses .. in which case, he is a hero :D
  • cq20
    cq20 Posts: 207
    Hinaultscrapcousin wrote:
    Even if there was no doping going on this all sounds ridiculously dodgy. No wonder Freeman hasn't turned up. Excessive amount of triamcinolone for a single rider.
    That's not what was said. It was stated that it was a lot of triamcinolne but that they couldn't determine how many people were receiving it, or when, or whether in or out of competition.

    However, the lack of governance, internal auditing, cross checking, record keeping etc makes the organisation look like a shambles
  • joe2008
    joe2008 Posts: 1,531
    fat daddy wrote:
    I want to hear how he said that ..... depending on the tone that could have just been a dig at the MPs and the media hype of them fiddling expenses .. in which case, he is a hero :D

    His previous remark was 'Well it doesn't add up then does it', to which the Committee Chairman said 'Well, it's your expenses' and he said 'Maybe I was fiddling them'... the 'well, we all do that' was an afterthought, and yes, probably aimed at MPs.

    He didn't come across as a hero that's for sure.
  • Hinaultscrapcousin
    Hinaultscrapcousin Posts: 647
    cq20 wrote:
    Hinaultscrapcousin wrote:
    Even if there was no doping going on this all sounds ridiculously dodgy. No wonder Freeman hasn't turned up. Excessive amount of triamcinolone for a single rider.
    That's not what was said. It was stated that it was a lot of triamcinolne but that they couldn't determine how many people were receiving it, or when, or whether in or out of competition.

    However, the lack of governance, internal auditing, cross checking, record keeping etc makes the organisation look like a shambles

    It's exactly what was said. Sapstead said that she had no idea if it was all for Wiggins or not but she said she had seen records for an excessive amount of triamcinolone for one rider.
  • cq20
    cq20 Posts: 207
    But she didn't quantify or justify her assertions and did mention the in / out of competition point. Given the records are so sparse or not available, it will be difficult to go much further
  • joe2008
    joe2008 Posts: 1,531
    Sapstead said that she had seen the medical orders from BC/Sky and there were none for Fluimucil.
  • cq20
    cq20 Posts: 207
    As for the participants, the MPs were woeful, Cope didn't come across as too sharp and Sapstead had a "give me a bigger budget" agenda (which may well be justified). The Freeman no show doesn't help and he certainly has a few procedures and record keeping points to address
  • blazing_saddles
    blazing_saddles Posts: 22,725
    cq20 wrote:
    joe2008 wrote:

    Cope: "maybe I fiddled my expenses, we all do that don't we..." what a plonker.
    Remember he was speaking to MPs. Maybe he was just explaining things in terms that they would understand.

    I assume folks watched it.
    Collins seemed to find that answer perfectly acceptable.
    Not that a bunch of MPs could relate to expense fiddling mind.

    One thing is clear: conservative MPs have never traveled with Ryanair or Easy Jet. :P
    Nit picking par excellence.
    "Science is a tool for cheaters". An anonymous French PE teacher.
  • Stridor
    Stridor Posts: 48
    Blazing Saddles wrote:
    Rodrego Hernandez wrote:
    Poor record keeping and looking dodgy aren't against the anti-doping rules. Luckily!

    IF BC were a bank it would be poor record keeping. :wink:

    There may be a bit more to this than you think. I understand UKAD have been in contact with the General Medical Council (GMC). They are UK regulators of Doctors, hold their registrations, and conduct any disciplinary hearings required for negligence, poor practice etc.

    There may also be a criminal element to this. The Misuse of Drugs Act 1971 covers areas such as failure to comply with regulations regarding documentation/prescribing etc. It also covers dishonesty in prescribing, as does the GMC.

    If I were Dr Freeman, I would be very worried about losing my registration...

    (NB: I'm not a Medical Expert nor a Lawyer, but I do have to deal with these regulations sometimes in my daily life)
  • smithy21
    smithy21 Posts: 2,204
    Bit of a shambles this isn't it.

    I am amazed one of the premier sports teams in the world in terms of organisation and attention to details even make it to bike races with bikes and people to ride them based on this fiasco.
  • Richj
    Richj Posts: 240
    Blazing Saddles wrote:
    cq20 wrote:
    joe2008 wrote:

    Cope: "maybe I fiddled my expenses, we all do that don't we..." what a plonker.
    Remember he was speaking to MPs. Maybe he was just explaining things in terms that they would understand.

    I assume folks watched it.
    Collins seemed to find that answer perfectly acceptable.
    Not that a bunch of MPs could relate to expense fiddling mind.

    One thing is clear: conservative MPs have never traveled with Ryanair or Easy Jet. :P
    Nit picking par excellence.

    Thought that was the best bit, the MP's seemed genuinely shocked that you can take a bike on a plane :)

    Thought Cope came across genuine, and nothing new really came out. UKAD seemed to just say that can't make any conclusions and can't prove anything either way. Although I didn't watch all that bit.
  • awavey
    awavey Posts: 2,368
    Blazing Saddles wrote:
    cq20 wrote:
    joe2008 wrote:

    Cope: "maybe I fiddled my expenses, we all do that don't we..." what a plonker.
    Remember he was speaking to MPs. Maybe he was just explaining things in terms that they would understand.

    I assume folks watched it.
    Collins seemed to find that answer perfectly acceptable.
    Not that a bunch of MPs could relate to expense fiddling mind.

    One thing is clear: conservative MPs have never traveled with Ryanair or Easy Jet. :P
    Nit picking par excellence.


    I dont know about acceptable, my impression, and I might be wrong as I only had the audio, is the MPs treated it with the disdain it deserved, and just left his words hanging there as there was nothing more to say about it, it didnt sound like a joke, even a poorly delivered one to try and break the awful tension that the session was generating

    and maybe the MPs have traveled with Ryanair/EasyJet as their incredularity as to why anyone would choose to check in hold luggage on a budget airline simply to save their aftershave on a glorified day trip when it could have been left in London, seemed genuine, not the reaction of folks who fly BA business class and dont get hit with the personal cost of doing such things, but then we are back to expenses again.
  • blazing_saddles
    blazing_saddles Posts: 22,725
    awavey wrote:
    Blazing Saddles wrote:
    cq20 wrote:
    joe2008 wrote:

    Cope: "maybe I fiddled my expenses, we all do that don't we..." what a plonker.
    Remember he was speaking to MPs. Maybe he was just explaining things in terms that they would understand.

    I assume folks watched it.
    Collins seemed to find that answer perfectly acceptable.
    Not that a bunch of MPs could relate to expense fiddling mind.

    One thing is clear: conservative MPs have never traveled with Ryanair or Easy Jet. :P
    Nit picking par excellence.


    I dont know about acceptable, my impression, and I might be wrong as I only had the audio, is the MPs treated it with the disdain it deserved, and just left his words hanging there as there was nothing more to say about it, it didnt sound like a joke, even a poorly delivered one to try and break the awful tension that the session was generating

    and maybe the MPs have traveled with Ryanair/EasyJet as their incredularity as to why anyone would choose to check in hold luggage on a budget airline simply to save their aftershave on a glorified day trip when it could have been left in London, seemed genuine, not the reaction of folks who fly BA business class and dont get hit with the personal cost of doing such things, but then we are back to expenses again.

    Well quite possibly not just aftershave, as Mr Collins alternate would have man with just passport in one hand and undetermined medical package for a third party in other, trying to get through security.
    "Science is a tool for cheaters". An anonymous French PE teacher.
  • RichN95.
    RichN95. Posts: 27,253
    For all the high fiving amongst the usual suspects - I'm yet to see anyone suggest anything that breaks the rules. They can shoot up kenalog like a junkie out of competition if they like, You may disapprove, but it's perfectly allowable.
    Twitter: @RichN95
  • DeVlaeminck
    DeVlaeminck Posts: 9,104
    Has there been proof provided that the laptop was stolen in Greece - presumably it would have been reported to the police and or insurance.
    [Castle Donington Ladies FC - going up in '22]
  • Mapaputsi
    Mapaputsi Posts: 104
    For a team that pride themselves on attention to detail and marginal gains, this situation looks very very suspect.

    We can it in our bubble and talk about how no rules have been broken, guilty until proven innocent etc. but this is another massive blow for professional cycling. As far as Joe Soap on the street is concerned, Team Sky are doping and the lines blur between them and British Cycling.

    I'm disappointed, but I can't say that I didn't see something like this coming.
  • yorkshireraw
    yorkshireraw Posts: 1,632
    RichN95 wrote:
    For all the high fiving amongst the usual suspects - I'm yet to see anyone suggest anything that breaks the rules. They can shoot up kenalog like a junkie out of competition if they like, You may disapprove, but it's perfectly allowable.

    Isn't the issue that the package was delivered and used on the final day of the Dauphine - albeit after finishing the stage, but still technically 'in competition' (rule is 'in competition' is up to midnight on the day of any race). Therefore if it was Kenalog rather than flumicil in the jiffy they're in a bit of trouble, as no TUE was in place for the Dauphine.

    As for out of comp you're spot on.
  • RichN95.
    RichN95. Posts: 27,253
    YorkshireRaw wrote:
    Isn't the issue that the package was delivered and used on the final day of the Dauphine - albeit after finishing the stage, but still technically 'in competition' (rule is 'in competition' is up to midnight on the day of any race). Therefore if it was Kenalog rather than flumicil in the jiffy they're in a bit of trouble, as no TUE was in place for the Dauphine.
    But no-one (beyond internet speculation) has made that accusation.

    Richard Moore tweeted some pages from is book about 2010 Sky in which Brailsford and Freeman basically said they were willing to do the legal stuff, but not the illegal. We know some took tramadol, probably some took OOC cortisone. In 2010/11 that wasn't really much of an issue. But now, a few years later the post-Armstrong media make a huge deal out of something as minor as an asthma inhaler - and it's impossible to have an honest conversation about it even if they knocked it on the head several years ago.
    Twitter: @RichN95
  • Hinaultscrapcousin
    Hinaultscrapcousin Posts: 647
    cq20 wrote:
    But she didn't quantify or justify her assertions and did mention the in / out of competition point. Given the records are so sparse or not available, it will be difficult to go much further
    That makes it worse though. It's possible to justify using triamcinolone on a rider who has tried other treatments and is still suffering. It's even possible to justify it over other treatments that would normally be used as it's a single injection and much more easily manageable. That's for one rider though. Triamcinolone in excessive amounts for one rider starts to suggest use by several riders and suddenly that's a very different ball game.
  • vinnymarsden
    vinnymarsden Posts: 560
    Im starting to wish Team Sky had been honest from the start and admitted they were fuc ...ng useless in relation to record keeping etc!!
    It is staggering that a team with bottomless reserves of cash/equipment/technology could not or simply did not record what was going where, to whom and from who.
    It kind of makes me wish I knew where their service course HQ is, as I'm thinking if they apply the same lackadaisical approach to component/bike stock I could just waltz in/out with a nice top of the range machine!!
    Joiking aside..I am not that ar sed about the TUE's and all the other crap that "certain" individuals on here CONSTANTLY bang on about, what I am concerned with is the total shambolic management of what, on the surface is touted as a "professional" sports team.There's no wonder Sky subs are so expensive, it's no doubt to cover all the "lost" gear!!
    Leicester City sacked their manager after their most perfect season ever...how long until SDB has to basically fall on the sword!
    I used to run a small golf society and I think my records were better than Skys from what is revealed!!

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