Poo tin... Put@in...
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MattFalle said:
if anyone is interested about the convoy, word on the street is that the front vehicles have run out of go go juice, the go go juice is in the rear vehicles and they can't get the juice up the line because its in vehicles with tyres and the Ukranians keep on taking out the tyres......
They're also offered stranded tank crews the chance to leave their tanks and walk home or stay where they are and be fired at with the nearest NLAW.
there are currently a lot of tank crews walking around.
Amazing how often logistics aren’t fully thought through and cause an almighty balls up0 -
Hopefully.thegreatdivide said:
And the weather is going to be rotten for the next few days. No air cover (like they’d even turn up) and boggy ground. This could be carnage.MattFalle said:if anyone is interested about the convoy, word on the street is that the front vehicles have run out of go go juice, the go go juice is in the rear vehicles and they can't get the juice up the line because its in vehicles with tyres and the Ukranians keep on taking out the tyres......
They're also offered stranded tank crews the chance to leave their tanks and walk home or stay where they are and be fired at with the nearest NLAW.
there are currently a lot of tank crews walking around."I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
Apologies if this was mentioned elsewhere but is Russia invading Ukraine worse than us invading Iraq and Afghanistan?Pinno, מלך אידיוט וחרא מכונאי0
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Are you joking?0
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Good question. Unless pay is maybe not factored into the Russian budget, but accounted for in some other way...Pross said:
IBut they have around 1 million full time service personnel and 2 million reservists whereas we only have around 150,000. If we assume average pay in the UK of £30k that would equate to £4.5k for the full time element in Russia.imposter2.0 said:A
One of the biggest differences is probably pay.Pross said:
Makes me wonder where our spending is going, you would assume quality over quantity but I suspect the MFs (and pretty much anyone in the British military I've heard) would disagree!0 -
Hope that helps.seanoconn said:Apologies if this was mentioned elsewhere but is Russia invading Ukraine worse than Germany annexing Austria?
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MF will no doubt correct but I read something about Russians having very few precision weapons (which are expensive both to use and to train for) and instead rely on having **a lot** of old skool “dumb” artilleryimposter2.0 said:
Good question. Unless pay is maybe not factored into the Russian budget, but accounted for in some other way...Pross said:
IBut they have around 1 million full time service personnel and 2 million reservists whereas we only have around 150,000. If we assume average pay in the UK of £30k that would equate to £4.5k for the full time element in Russia.imposter2.0 said:A
One of the biggest differences is probably pay.Pross said:
Makes me wonder where our spending is going, you would assume quality over quantity but I suspect the MFs (and pretty much anyone in the British military I've heard) would disagree!
So basically they bomb the sh!t out of everyone and send loads of men in to clear up and hope not too many of them snuff it.0 -
Those NLAWs are around £20k a shot, that soon mounts up I guess although not as much as the tank it takes out.
Not sure what one of those rockets they fire from the truck costs but they are 50 odd year old 'technology'.0 -
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I've been a bit confused by this - as the whole point of using tracked AFVs is that they are supposed to be able to cope with a bit of mud/offroad. So why the Russians seem so keen to stay on tarmac all the time is a bit of a puzzle.rick_chasey said:Does seem the mud I was wanging on about is having an effect on the attackers.
Granted some of the narrow-tracked vehicles might struggle, but the T-74/T-80s or whatever they have now (my Soviet armour knowledge stops around the late 80s), were pretty much designed for that kind of thing.0 -
If they’re running out of food, I wonder if this delay to keep China happy meant the Russians on the border were using up supplies
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There was a lot of ridicule at the time of the support the UK was providing, but it seems that it has turned out to be quite effectivePross said:Those NLAWs are around £20k a shot, that soon mounts up I guess although not as much as the tank it takes out.
Not sure what one of those rockets they fire from the truck costs but they are 50 odd year old 'technology'.2 -
It's an interesting question, but you won't get a sensible discussion on it.seanoconn said:Apologies if this was mentioned elsewhere but is Russia invading Ukraine worse than us invading Iraq and Afghanistan?
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Iraq was a questionable multi-nationally sponsored revolution, but at least had aims other than annexation. Very, very questionable though.TheBigBean said:
It's an interesting question, but you won't get a sensible discussion on it.seanoconn said:Apologies if this was mentioned elsewhere but is Russia invading Ukraine worse than us invading Iraq and Afghanistan?
Afghanistan seemed to me to have at least some national security interests at the core of it, on the part of those engineering regime change.
Both endeavours at least on the face of it had the aim of instilling democracy, rather than removing it.
In both cases my understanding is that the regime being toppled wasn't terribly nice to its people - which isn't a reason for invading, but did mean that the occupying force wasn't opposed by the majority of the public. This is possibly matters more to you if you happen to be female.
But that aside, the question is whataboutery at its finest BB. Whatabout Hastings, and that arrow? Whatabout those bloody Vikings and what they did to all those local shops in Nothumberland? Whatabout Norther Ireland?
He punched Rodney so I punched Paul is primary school reasoning isn't it?0 -
Pross said:
Those NLAWs are around £20k a shot, that soon mounts up I guess although not as much as the tank it takes out.
Not sure what one of those rockets they fire from the truck costs but they are 50 odd year old 'technology'.
The NLAWs are more expensive than that now, I’ve also seen mention of a £20k a pop cost but that price was from 2008. But the general point of it being buttons compared to the cost of a tank of course still pertains.
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He won't be sanctioned until
I don't remember any ridicule. Did I miss it?TheBigBean said:
There was a lot of ridicule at the time of the support the UK was providing, but it seems that it has turned out to be quite effectivePross said:Those NLAWs are around £20k a shot, that soon mounts up I guess although not as much as the tank it takes out.
Not sure what one of those rockets they fire from the truck costs but they are 50 odd year old 'technology'.0 -
It's not a question of good or bad, Russia under Putin is simply an enemy.First.Aspect said:
Iraq was a questionable multi-nationally sponsored revolution, but at least had aims other than annexation. Very, very questionable though.TheBigBean said:
It's an interesting question, but you won't get a sensible discussion on it.seanoconn said:Apologies if this was mentioned elsewhere but is Russia invading Ukraine worse than us invading Iraq and Afghanistan?
Afghanistan seemed to me to have at least some national security interests at the core of it, on the part of those engineering regime change.
Both endeavours at least on the face of it had the aim of instilling democracy, rather than removing it.
In both cases my understanding is that the regime being toppled wasn't terribly nice to its people - which isn't a reason for invading, but did mean that the occupying force wasn't opposed by the majority of the public. This is possibly matters more to you if you happen to be female.
But that aside, the question is whataboutery at its finest BB. Whatabout Hastings, and that arrow? Whatabout those bloody Vikings and what they did to all those local shops in Nothumberland? Whatabout Norther Ireland?
He punched Rodney so I punched Paul is primary school reasoning isn't it?1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
On the subject of NLAW and Javelin. Modern Russian MBTs are meant to have some of the best reactive armour in the business. That’s those ‘blocks’ on the outside of the hull. They’re meant to explode outwards when a missile or tank shell gets close. A bit like the anti missile flares that aircraft pump out. I’ve seen several photos now of big holes punched right through the blocks like they were made of wood, most probably from portable rockets. There’s probably a lot of Western tankers thinking WTF? right now.0
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What happens if a second rocket is fired after the "blocks" have been used?thegreatdivide said:On the subject of NLAW and Javelin. Modern Russian MBTs are meant to have some of the best reactive armour in the business. That’s those ‘blocks’ on the outside of the hull. They’re meant to explode outwards when a missile or tank shell gets close. A bit like the anti missile flares that aircraft pump out. I’ve seen several photos now of big holes punched right through the blocks like they were made of wood, most probably from portable rockets. There’s probably a lot of Western tankers thinking WTF? right now.
Appears to be a one-off tool (possibly a couple more) to the uninitiated.
Or maybe they are just wood. Dummy tanks have been used in warfare before.The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
I am not sure. You have no chance.Veronese68 wrote:PB is the most sensible person on here.0 -
If you hit the same spot (which is probably pretty hard to do at range) then you’d get through, but the other areas of reactive armour should remain unexploded.0
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There are also a lot of photos of big vehicles with flat tyres. It’s being suggested that it’s down to old rubber, and poor maintenance is rife in the Russian army.0
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Economist had an article about it a while back - said even tanks can get stuck in Ukrainian mud quite easily.imposter2.0 said:
I've been a bit confused by this - as the whole point of using tracked AFVs is that they are supposed to be able to cope with a bit of mud/offroad. So why the Russians seem so keen to stay on tarmac all the time is a bit of a puzzle.rick_chasey said:Does seem the mud I was wanging on about is having an effect on the attackers.
Granted some of the narrow-tracked vehicles might struggle, but the T-74/T-80s or whatever they have now (my Soviet armour knowledge stops around the late 80s), were pretty much designed for that kind of thing.
It’s not a bit of mud - the thaw is quite messy.
Basically you have to stick to the roads for that month or so0 -
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These sorts of comment. The 100 troops were training the locals to use the NLAWs.kingstongraham said:He won't be sanctioned until
I don't remember any ridicule. Did I miss it?TheBigBean said:
There was a lot of ridicule at the time of the support the UK was providing, but it seems that it has turned out to be quite effectivePross said:Those NLAWs are around £20k a shot, that soon mounts up I guess although not as much as the tank it takes out.
Not sure what one of those rockets they fire from the truck costs but they are 50 odd year old 'technology'.MattFalle said:
and of those 100 you'll only have 60 combat bods, so not exactly going to make the Spetsnaz quiver in their boots.rick_chasey said:
100 troops.focuszing723 said:White House press secretary Jen Psaki told reporters on Tuesday that the U.S. believes that Russia could carry out an attack on Ukraine “at any point,” underscoring the immediacy of the threat should Moscow decide to take action.https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/590206-white-house-says-russia-could-launch-attack-in-ukraine-at-any-point
“Our view is this is an extremely dangerous situation. We're now at a stage where Russia could at any point launch an attack in Ukraine,” Psaki told reporters at a briefing, adding later that her language was “more stark than we have been.”British Royal Air Force planes flew around German airspace when they delivered anti-tank weaponry to Ukraine on Monday, flight-tracking data from FlightRadar24 showed.https://www.businessinsider.com/ukraine-uk-planes-long-detour-around-germany-deliver-weapons-2022-1?r=US&IR=T
In recent weeks, Ukraine has called on the likes of the US, UK, and Germany to provide military aid to help counter the buildup of Russian troops at its border. Ukraine and the US have long warned of an imminent Russian invasion.
It doesn't sound too good. We've sent some troops and arms to Ukraine, what will the EU do?
Hardly going to make the 100,000 Russian troops on the border worry.0 -
On the subject of the games, we have had a rather quick U turn.rick_chasey said:If they’re running out of food, I wonder if this delay to keep China happy meant the Russians on the border were using up supplies
Athletes from Russia and Belarus will not be allowed to compete at the 2022 Winter Paralympics in Beijing, the International Paralympic Committee has said."Science is a tool for cheaters". An anonymous French PE teacher.0 -
On BBC Breakfast - fresh sanctions against only 8 oligarchs since this invasion began - out of ~200 that it has been suggested could/should be sanctioned.
It's always possible there are good reasons - but it doesn't seem many.[Castle Donington Ladies FC - going up in '22]0 -
The sanctions on banks, travel etc. will also be having a serious impact on wealthy Russians though but still don't get why they aren't hitting them harder as they are the people who will pressurise Putin.DeVlaeminck said:On BBC Breakfast - fresh sanctions against only 8 oligarchs since this invasion began - out of ~200 that it has been suggested could/should be sanctioned.
It's always possible there are good reasons - but it doesn't seem many.0
