Tour de France route 2017

rick_chasey

RichN95 wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

I haven't had a look but are there some more tough 210+km mountain stages?

Just Stage 12

Shame.

Richmond Racer 2

Le sigh

Giro is the race this year

salsiccia1

Richmond Racer 2 wrote:

Le sigh

Giro is the race this year

Giro is the race every year

Richmond Racer 2

Salsiccia1 wrote:

Richmond Racer 2 wrote:

Le sigh

Giro is the race this year

Giro is the race every year

Word.

salsiccia1

BigMat wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

Is the consensus still that it favours Bardet?

Are there any obvious losers?

I'd guess Froome given the shortage of TT kms.


I haven't had a look but are there some more tough 210+km mountain stages?

That was a big problem with the route this year. Too short to shed the domestiques until final few Km (if at all)

Lack of TT kms allows Froome to focus his training on climbing - should see him back to his climbing best, which I'm not sure anyone else can live with. It would be good to see a real contest though and Quintana / Bardet should fancy their chances. Do we know who OBE will have for GC? If either of Yates or Chaves continue to progress like the past year then they could be right up there in the mix.

I think they've made the route to try to favour Bardet, but it's still hard to see past Froome. I agree, he'll focus his training and be strong there.

I think some have already made their minds up - Aru is doing the Giro/Vuelta. Has Nibali said what he's doing next year?

specialgueststar

still have to remind that Bardet was second last year - what about a route made for Yates??

rick_chasey

Look Froome is the strongest in both disciplines but compared to his main rivals he's a lot better in the TT.
It's not like there were many TT kms but that was where he won the Tour this year.

RichN95.

BigMat wrote:

Do we know who OBE will have for GC? If either of Yates or Chaves continue to progress like the past year then they could be right up there in the mix.

I'd like to see them try a three pronged attack of just creating chaos. Every other team just follows Sky and protects one man (two for BMC). It doesn't work. I think Orica have the capability to bring about a new form a tactics (although maybe not properly until 2018).

The problem is Sky don't get panicked and they usually blitz the first MTF to sort the wheat from the chaff (classic Armstrong tactics - he was a master at constructing a Tour as whole)

andyp

RichN95 wrote:

BigMat wrote:

Do we know who OBE will have for GC? If either of Yates or Chaves continue to progress like the past year then they could be right up there in the mix.

I'd like to see them try a three pronged attack of just creating chaos. Every other team just follows Sky and protects one man (two for BMC). It doesn't work. I think Orica have the capability to bring about a new form a tactics (although maybe not properly until 2018).

The problem is Sky don't get panicked and they usually blitz the first MTF to sort the wheat from the chaff (classic Armstrong tactics - he was a master at constructing a Tour as whole)

Armstrong was basically copying Indurain's tactic. He'd blitz everyone in the TTs, then blow the race apart on the first big mountain stage, to leave him one or two riders left to mark for the rest of the race.

takethehighroad

Richmond Racer 2 wrote:

Salsiccia1 wrote:

Richmond Racer 2 wrote:

Le sigh

Giro is the race this year

Giro is the race every year

Word.

"To your mother" Ice, V - 1991

bigmat

andyp wrote:

RichN95 wrote:

BigMat wrote:

Do we know who OBE will have for GC? If either of Yates or Chaves continue to progress like the past year then they could be right up there in the mix.

I'd like to see them try a three pronged attack of just creating chaos. Every other team just follows Sky and protects one man (two for BMC). It doesn't work. I think Orica have the capability to bring about a new form a tactics (although maybe not properly until 2018).

The problem is Sky don't get panicked and they usually blitz the first MTF to sort the wheat from the chaff (classic Armstrong tactics - he was a master at constructing a Tour as whole)

Armstrong was basically copying Indurain's tactic. He'd blitz everyone in the TTs, then blow the race apart on the first big mountain stage, to leave him one or two riders left to mark for the rest of the race.

Exactly - Big Mig did it all first. The amount of TT kms in those years was astonishing compared to now, though. I still reckon peak Indurain could have won a modern Tour (and not just 2012) but no way he would win 5.

salsiccia1

BigMat wrote:

andyp wrote:

RichN95 wrote:

BigMat wrote:

Do we know who OBE will have for GC? If either of Yates or Chaves continue to progress like the past year then they could be right up there in the mix.

I'd like to see them try a three pronged attack of just creating chaos. Every other team just follows Sky and protects one man (two for BMC). It doesn't work. I think Orica have the capability to bring about a new form a tactics (although maybe not properly until 2018).

The problem is Sky don't get panicked and they usually blitz the first MTF to sort the wheat from the chaff (classic Armstrong tactics - he was a master at constructing a Tour as whole)

Armstrong was basically copying Indurain's tactic. He'd blitz everyone in the TTs, then blow the race apart on the first big mountain stage, to leave him one or two riders left to mark for the rest of the race.

Exactly - Big Mig did it all first. The amount of TT kms in those years was astonishing compared to now, though. I still reckon peak Indurain could have won a modern Tour (and not just 2012) but no way he would win 5.

Just as well! The Big Mig years weren't exactly exciting watching, and the way Sky are able to dominate doesn't help today.

If OBE can get a decent supporting cast around Yates and Chaves, they could try the 1-2 that Movistar never seem to be able to manage in the Tour.

RichN95.

andyp wrote:

RichN95 wrote:

BigMat wrote:

Do we know who OBE will have for GC? If either of Yates or Chaves continue to progress like the past year then they could be right up there in the mix.

I'd like to see them try a three pronged attack of just creating chaos. Every other team just follows Sky and protects one man (two for BMC). It doesn't work. I think Orica have the capability to bring about a new form a tactics (although maybe not properly until 2018).

The problem is Sky don't get panicked and they usually blitz the first MTF to sort the wheat from the chaff (classic Armstrong tactics - he was a master at constructing a Tour as whole)

Armstrong was basically copying Indurain's tactic. He'd blitz everyone in the TTs, then blow the race apart on the first big mountain stage, to leave him one or two riders left to mark for the rest of the race.

Sort of. A GC rider doesn't really have the option to soft pedal a TT so I wouldn't call it a tactic even if the effect was the same.

Salsiccia1 wrote:

If OBE can get a decent supporting cast around Yates and Chaves, they could try the 1-2 that Movistar never seem to be able to manage in the Tour.

I was thinking Chaves and two Yateses.

salsiccia1

Salsiccia1 wrote:

If OBE can get a decent supporting cast around Yates and Chaves, they could try the 1-2 that Movistar never seem to be able to manage in the Tour.

I was thinking Chaves and two Yateses.[/quote]

So was I, but didn't know what the plural of Yates was

Richmond Racer 2

Salsiccia1 wrote:

Salsiccia1 wrote:

If OBE can get a decent supporting cast around Yates and Chaves, they could try the 1-2 that Movistar never seem to be able to manage in the Tour.

I was thinking Chaves and two Yateses.

So was I, but didn't know what the plural of Yates was [/quote]


A Wine Lodge?

Lanterne_Rogue

Salsiccia1 wrote:

Just as well! The Big Mig years weren't exactly exciting watching, and the way Sky are able to dominate doesn't help today.

I'm just a bit too late to the party to have watched those years, although my French teacher was horrified by my ignorance in '92 or '93 as to who Indurain was and explained his 'magnificence' in no uncertain terms, so I was dimly aware of what Indurain was doing and how (heck, my teacher banged on long enough to prevent that day's vocab test, so win/win).

The difference between Sky and the two obvious predecessors seems to me that Sky seem constantly to be much closer to the point where everything unravels totally. As just one example, Froome has crashed out in the past despite their best efforts, and the return to the cobbles was largely billed as everyone else's chance to have another good laugh at his expense. I can't remember Armstrong or Indurain having that.

The fact that that stage was then ridden pretty well by Sky in no way diminishes my point - the race we hope for is rarely the race we get regardless of who gets to the sharp end. Sky are pretty good at closing a race down, but at least they do it in a way that leaves us with the hope that this time everything could blow up in their faces.

takethehighroad

Richmond Racer 2 wrote:

Salsiccia1 wrote:

Salsiccia1 wrote:

If OBE can get a decent supporting cast around Yates and Chaves, they could try the 1-2 that Movistar never seem to be able to manage in the Tour.

I was thinking Chaves and two Yateses.

So was I, but didn't know what the plural of Yates was

A Wine Lodge? [/quote]

Hat. Double hat. And chapeau

markwb79

Salsiccia1 wrote:

Salsiccia1 wrote:

If OBE can get a decent supporting cast around Yates and Chaves, they could try the 1-2 that Movistar never seem to be able to manage in the Tour.

I was thinking Chaves and two Yateses.

So was I, but didn't know what the plural of Yates was [/quote]

Yatesi?

No_Ta_Doctor

Unfortunately, I think the two/three pronged attack tactic is long on fantasy and short on reality - much as I'd like to see it happen.

Firstly, you have to have resources dedicated to protect each rider, and for OGE that's without including their three best climbers - who are te ones needing protection.

Secondly, you need a fair amount of luck to keep all three upright and healthy throughout the tour.

Thirdly, as soon as one of them gains significant time on the others you need to rebalance your priorities, put all your eggs in the leading basket.

Fourthly, even if you can get all three up in say the top 10, within punching distance of Froome, if either of the lower placed riders looks like they're making a climb up the GC then the other teams will shut them down before Sky need to.

Sorry, wish it wasn't the case, but it's really difficult to pull off as a strategy.

Richmond Racer 2

BUT THEY HAVE TO FIND A WAY OF BEATING FROOME OR I WILL BE SICK (AGAIN)


Oops, sorry, voices in my head there

salsiccia1

You never did tell us what it was about him *casts line*

joelsim

2017 Tour will be very close. Quintana, Yates A, Bardet will push Froome all the way, Lopez too if he recovers from his injury early enough.

RichN95.

Joelsim wrote:

2017 Tour will be very close. Quintana, Yates A, Bardet will push Froome all the way, Lopez too if he recovers from his injury early enough.

I can't see Lopez catching up a lost winter of training enough to be a player.

Lanterne_Rogue

Richmond Racer 2 wrote:

BUT THEY HAVE TO FIND A WAY OF BEATING FROOME OR I WILL BE SICK (AGAIN)


Oops, sorry, voices in my head there

I have some sympathy for this, but the most likely way to beat Froome is by being better than him whilst using the same tactics, not by doing anything different. Which basically means more of the same.

The only saving grace is that at least we'd be spared everyone blaming Sky for making it boring - which is far more boring than the actual racing.

rick_chasey

INRNG has done its take on the route if you're interested.

joelsim

All stages live from the start. Excellent. An hour or so to see the break establish, then maybe a spot of lunch and then the rest.

blazing_saddles

Joelsim wrote:

All stages live from the start. Excellent. An hour or so to see the break establish, then maybe a spot of lunch and then the rest.

The breakaway is usually sorted in under a quarter of that time on flat and medium stages.
Hours and hours more of watching black paint dry, more like.

rick_chasey

Blazing Saddles wrote:

Joelsim wrote:

All stages live from the start. Excellent. An hour or so to see the break establish, then maybe a spot of lunch and then the rest.

The breakaway is usually sorted in under a quarter of that time on flat and medium stages.
Hours and hours more of watching black paint dry, more like.

*niche fan alert* - as someone who doesn't sleep well, when I had the time to sit & watch the Tour all day, I used to so enjoy the hypnotic nature of flat stages sending me to snoozeland. I still do this during the weekend stages when I'm not busy.

I seem to usually wake up at the right moment. It's very welcome.

Having said that, nowadays, it's rare enough to get the chance to sit & watch cycling for 3 hours (Flanders & Roubaix excepted), so when I do, I get pretty cheesed off when an exciting parcours is deathly dull.

As much as I welcome the snooze, more than a few stages like that quickly irritates me.

joelsim

Rick Chasey wrote:

Blazing Saddles wrote:

Joelsim wrote:

All stages live from the start. Excellent. An hour or so to see the break establish, then maybe a spot of lunch and then the rest.

The breakaway is usually sorted in under a quarter of that time on flat and medium stages.
Hours and hours more of watching black paint dry, more like.

*niche fan alert* - as someone who doesn't sleep well, when I had the time to sit & watch the Tour all day, I used to so enjoy the hypnotic nature of flat stages sending me to snoozeland. I still do this during the weekend stages when I'm not busy.

I seem to usually wake up at the right moment. It's very welcome.

Having said that, nowadays, it's rare enough to get the chance to sit & watch cycling for 3 hours (Flanders & Roubaix excepted), so when I do, I get pretty cheesed off when an exciting parcours is deathly dull.

As much as I welcome the snooze, more than a few stages like that quickly irritates me.

Works for me. My job is early morning and late afternoon.

salsiccia1

Wildcards announced:

Cofidis
Direct Energie
Fortuneo - Vital Concept
Wanty - Groupe Goubert

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/tour-de-france-cofidis-fortuneo-direct-energie-and-wanty-secure-wild-card-invitations/