Are bulk powders and portien shakes good for your health?

guy.spartacus

Herbalife has been proven to be a pyramid scheme https://www.factsaboutherbalife.com/

Don't buy from anyone pertaining to be a distributor because they have a sticker on their car. No matter what your goals they will sell you the same product (and take a cut of what you pay).

If you want to supplement, MyProtein is a good, cheap source (I use unflavoured whey in 5kg bags and add nesquik to taste - the flavourings reduce the actual protein content of the product by around 2-5%).

Nutrition timing has been proven to have very little real world effect on recovery and/or muscular gains. So long as your weekly calories and macronutrients are where they need to be for whatever you want to achieve you should be ok.

charlie_potatoes

guy.spartacus wrote:

Nutrition timing has been proven to have very little real world effect on recovery and/or muscular gains.

Do you have a link to this please?

StillGoing

guy.spartacus wrote:

Herbalife has been proven to be a pyramid scheme https://www.factsaboutherbalife.com/

Don't buy from anyone pertaining to be a distributor because they have a sticker on their car. No matter what your goals they will sell you the same product (and take a cut of what you pay).

If you want to supplement, MyProtein is a good, cheap source (I use unflavoured whey in 5kg bags and add nesquik to taste - the flavourings reduce the actual protein content of the product by around 2-5%).

Nutrition timing has been proven to have very little real world effect on recovery and/or muscular gains. So long as your weekly calories and macronutrients are where they need to be for whatever you want to achieve you should be ok.

It hasn't been proven to be a pyramid scheme at all. The main exponent of that claim has been made to pay for it. His beef is that, as a Hedge fund backer, he decided against going in with Herbalife and is pissed at how successful it has been. It operates no differently to Cambridge Diet, Slimmers World etc who all give their distributors the benefit of making money from the discounts they get on the products. Herbalife sponsor many top athletes such as Christian Ronaldo and a host of triathletes plus various teams including cycling teams, http://sports.herbalife.com/en-US/Biogr ... hletes.htm http://sports.herbalife.com/en-US/Biographies/Teams.htm
People complain that they don't become successful as distributors, yet they don't put the work in. Selling products requires that you get out there and create customers. You don't sit on your backside and dream that a FB page is going to get you your first Ferrari. Many Distributors go into it simply to benefit from the discounted prices for themselves instead of paying someone else to get it for them, which is exactly what I did. I have no interest in recruiting customers and no time to be going round holding the hands of overweight people giving them encouragement. Anyone that asks me for products, I show them the price list and what rate I get it at, and they pay that price. I make no money on it and have no interest in making money from it.

https://www.theguardian.com/business/20 ... heme-label

AK_jnr

Being a PT my problem with it is you get a load of little scrotes and pikey women handing out rubbish advice on diet and exercise like they are qualified.
Showing pictures of their stupid cult meetings in shit Burtons suits driving leased cars thinking they are big time. I'm not a snob, I cant be in my situation, but I just cant deal with people trying to be something they are not.

guy.spartacus

Charlie Potatoes wrote:

guy.spartacus wrote:

Nutrition timing has been proven to have very little real world effect on recovery and/or muscular gains.

Do you have a link to this please?

https://jissn.biomedcentral.com/article ... -2783-10-5

guy.spartacus

philthy3 wrote:

It hasn't been proven to be a pyramid scheme at all. The main exponent of that claim has been made to pay for it. His beef is that, as a Hedge fund backer, he decided against going in with Herbalife and is pissed at how successful it has been. It operates no differently to Cambridge Diet, Slimmers World etc who all give their distributors the benefit of making money from the discounts they get on the products. Herbalife sponsor many top athletes such as Christian Ronaldo and a host of triathletes plus various teams including cycling teams, http://sports.herbalife.com/en-US/Biogr ... hletes.htm http://sports.herbalife.com/en-US/Biographies/Teams.htm
People complain that they don't become successful as distributors, yet they don't put the work in. Selling products requires that you get out there and create customers. You don't sit on your backside and dream that a FB page is going to get you your first Ferrari. Many Distributors go into it simply to benefit from the discounted prices for themselves instead of paying someone else to get it for them, which is exactly what I did. I have no interest in recruiting customers and no time to be going round holding the hands of overweight people giving them encouragement. Anyone that asks me for products, I show them the price list and what rate I get it at, and they pay that price. I make no money on it and have no interest in making money from it.

https://www.theguardian.com/business/20 ... heme-label

Cambridge Diet, Slimmers World and all the other 'fad' diets and 'nutritional schemes' are just as bad.

A balanced diet with targeted macronutrient and calorie goals does not require expensive powders and supplementation - if you want to, you can buy a multivitamin tablet, fish oil caplets and some whey protein powder to help achieve those goals.

The fact that Herbalife sponsors various sports teams and celebrity sports people only shows how much money they've made from snake oil and quackery.

Why are you a distributor if you don't make any money from it? Seems a very strange way to spend your days.

davebradswmb

ugo.santalucia wrote:

You can get exactly the same nutrients in skimmed milk, which, unless you are allergic to lactose, has proven over the millenia to be OK health wise.

Not quite. Milk maybe, but skimmed milk is a relatively new invention. It used to be fed to pigs before the marketing men worked their magic and persuaded humans that it was a better alternative to whole milk. Maybe it should be called scummed milk in their honour.

Gromson

All milk is essentially skimmed milk -they're all completely separated out as part of the processing, and then reconstituted as "full fat", "semi-skimmed" and "skimmed".

Some sage advice from my biochemistry lecturer at university: unless you're living in a starvation state, there isn't much demonstrable benefit to consuming vast amounts of protein over and above your normal dietary intake. All you do is dump the excess into your urine, making it very frothy indeed. And if you've spent a sh1tload of cash on the proteins, then it's very expensive frothy wee.

meanredspider

guy.spartacus wrote:

Charlie Potatoes wrote:

guy.spartacus wrote:

Nutrition timing has been proven to have very little real world effect on recovery and/or muscular gains.

Do you have a link to this please?

https://jissn.biomedcentral.com/article ... -2783-10-5

Studies show a supercompensation of glycogen stores when carbohydrate is consumed immediately post-exercise, and delaying consumption by just 2 hours attenuates the rate of muscle glycogen re-synthesis by as much as 50% [21]. Exercise enhances insulin-stimulated glucose uptake following a workout with a strong correlation noted between the amount of uptake and the magnitude of glycogen utilization [22]. This is in part due to an increase in the translocation of GLUT4 during glycogen depletion [23, 24] thereby facilitating entry of glucose into the cell. In addition, there is an exercise-induced increase in the activity of glycogen synthase—the principle enzyme involved in promoting glycogen storage [25]. The combination of these factors facilitates the rapid uptake of glucose following an exercise bout, allowing glycogen to be replenished at an accelerated rate

Which is basically what I said earlier in the thread. The study, though, seems to be more related to body-building for which this type of glycogen replenishment is far less critical. In fact, unless I'm doing multi-day long rides, I don't bother. And additional protein or protein timing is generally pointless.

diy

work out your macro nutrition needs based on your size, composition and goal. Unless you are a cheating body builder using hormones and steroids extra protein will just get burned as fuel or converted to fat. Too much can cause a strain on your organs processing the excess

meanredspider

diy wrote:

extra protein will just get burned as fuel or converted to fat

No - it'll get excreted as urea.

StillGoing

guy.spartacus wrote:

Cambridge Diet, Slimmers World and all the other 'fad' diets and 'nutritional schemes' are just as bad.

A balanced diet with targeted macronutrient and calorie goals does not require expensive powders and supplementation - if you want to, you can buy a multivitamin tablet, fish oil caplets and some whey protein powder to help achieve those goals.

The fact that Herbalife sponsors various sports teams and celebrity sports people only shows how much money they've made from snake oil and quackery.

Why are you a distributor if you don't make any money from it? Seems a very strange way to spend your days.

So your whey powders etc aren't a supplement? Think you'll find they are and the manufacturers are also making millions out of the end user. A shake is simply a more nutritional way of ingesting those same products. Herbalife is also the only product that can claim to be made from natural products and not manufactured from chemicals in a laboratory. That certification is only allowed on their products. You don't like it; good for you.

I'm a distributor because, as already mentioned, I get the products at a discounted price, therefore not paying someone else to order them for me.

smudgerii

philthy3 wrote:

guy.spartacus wrote:

Cambridge Diet, Slimmers World and all the other 'fad' diets and 'nutritional schemes' are just as bad.

A balanced diet with targeted macronutrient and calorie goals does not require expensive powders and supplementation - if you want to, you can buy a multivitamin tablet, fish oil caplets and some whey protein powder to help achieve those goals.

The fact that Herbalife sponsors various sports teams and celebrity sports people only shows how much money they've made from snake oil and quackery.

Why are you a distributor if you don't make any money from it? Seems a very strange way to spend your days.

So your whey powders etc aren't a supplement? Think you'll find they are and the manufacturers are also making millions out of the end user. A shake is simply a more nutritional way of ingesting those same products. Herbalife is also the only product that can claim to be made from natural products and not manufactured from chemicals in a laboratory. That certification is only allowed on their products. You don't like it; good for you.

I'm a distributor because, as already mentioned, I get the products at a discounted price, therefore not paying someone else to order them for me.

So whey powder is not a natural product? You sure?

smudgerii

meanredspider wrote:

diy wrote:

extra protein will just get burned as fuel or converted to fat

No - it'll get excreted as urea.

Oh, really? Excess calories from protein will be converted to fat.

diy

there are calories in protein - too much causes strain on your liver, high cholesterol, etc. it's still food.

not to mention that protein shakes normally have loads of sugar and carbs too

meanredspider

Smudgerii wrote:

meanredspider wrote:

diy wrote:

extra protein will just get burned as fuel or converted to fat

No - it'll get excreted as urea.

Oh, really? Excess calories from protein will be converted to fat.

Yup, theoretically correct, but it takes nearly as many calories to convert protein into energy as they contain - so protein is an incredibly poor source of energy and not one you should even worry about. The body will extract the energy so that it's not a nett loss in the production of urea.

To be clear, I'm not suggesting anyone should take excess protein in the form of shakes etc - quite the opposite. To my mind, it's a complete waste of time unless, possibly, you're trying to bulk up but that's hardly something road cyclists want to do.

smudgerii

meanredspider wrote:

Smudgerii wrote:

meanredspider wrote:

diy wrote:

extra protein will just get burned as fuel or converted to fat

No - it'll get excreted as urea.

Oh, really? Excess calories from protein will be converted to fat.

Yup, theoretically correct, but it takes nearly as many calories to convert protein into energy as they contain - so protein is an incredibly poor source of energy and not one you should even worry about. The body will extract the energy so that it's not a nett loss in the production of urea.

To be clear, I'm not suggesting anyone should take excess protein in the form of shakes etc - quite the opposite. To my mind, it's a complete waste of time unless, possibly, you're trying to bulk up but that's hardly something road cyclists want to do.

So just be clear.... Your post was incorrect. Excess protein will not be exclusively excreated as urea.

A repeating 'fallback' in this thread is "bulking, we don't want that for cycling". It highlights how little people understand about Protein powders and nutrition in general..

Protein powder is not for "bulking". High Carb mass gainers are the bulkers, it's all about excess calories and the convenience these products bring to those who need them.

fat daddy

diy wrote:

not to mention that protein shakes normally have loads of sugar and carbs too

no ..... protein shakes normally contain about 95-98% protien.

Mass builder shakes, muscle gainer shakes, meal replacement shakes and all of those shakes that people for some reason call protien shakes, contain carbs and fillers.

diy

can you post examples?

smudgerii

diy wrote:

can you post examples?

Nutrisport 90+
PHD diet whey
TPW diet whey 90

diy

only 10% more protein per kcal than low fat cottage cheese. but a lot more fat.

meanredspider

Smudgerii wrote:

meanredspider wrote:

Smudgerii wrote:

meanredspider wrote:

diy wrote:

extra protein will just get burned as fuel or converted to fat

No - it'll get excreted as urea.

Oh, really? Excess calories from protein will be converted to fat.

Yup, theoretically correct, but it takes nearly as many calories to convert protein into energy as they contain - so protein is an incredibly poor source of energy and not one you should even worry about. The body will extract the energy so that it's not a nett loss in the production of urea.

To be clear, I'm not suggesting anyone should take excess protein in the form of shakes etc - quite the opposite. To my mind, it's a complete waste of time unless, possibly, you're trying to bulk up but that's hardly something road cyclists want to do.

So just be clear.... Your post was incorrect. Excess protein will not be exclusively excreated as urea.

A repeating 'fallback' in this thread is "bulking, we don't want that for cycling". It highlights how little people understand about Protein powders and nutrition in general..

Protein powder is not for "bulking". High Carb mass gainers are the bulkers, it's all about excess calories and the convenience these products bring to those who need them.

I'm not sure I used the word "exclusively" at any point - after all, the human metabolism is far too complicated to say that - and no two people are the same. The point is this: any energy gained from protein is pretty much used up in accessing that energy so there will be next-to-no net deposition of fat. The real noticeable effect will be the excretion of urea. That's my point - which is as accurate as it needs to be. Now, there's a zillion other things that happen if we want to get entirely pedantic about it but that's entirely academic and too tedious to mention here.

Frankly I don't care what leads to bulking (I don't need it) nor do I care about protein shakes (I don't believe any of us road cyclists need them).

And (if you know anything about nutrition at all) you'll understand that we are all different even in some fundamental ways.

smudgerii

diy wrote:

only 10% more protein per kcal than low fat cottage cheese. but a lot more fat.

But much more convenient than cottage cheese... Fat is not your enemy, sugar is.

For the sake of clarity why don't you continue your post giving "a lot more fat" percentage for each of the protein shakes I listed for you against the low fat cottage cheese you originally quoted.

smudgerii

meanredspider wrote:

Smudgerii wrote:

meanredspider wrote:

Smudgerii wrote:

meanredspider wrote:

diy wrote:

extra protein will just get burned as fuel or converted to fat

No - it'll get excreted as urea.

Oh, really? Excess calories from protein will be converted to fat.

Yup, theoretically correct, but it takes nearly as many calories to convert protein into energy as they contain - so protein is an incredibly poor source of energy and not one you should even worry about. The body will extract the energy so that it's not a nett loss in the production of urea.

To be clear, I'm not suggesting anyone should take excess protein in the form of shakes etc - quite the opposite. To my mind, it's a complete waste of time unless, possibly, you're trying to bulk up but that's hardly something road cyclists want to do.

So just be clear.... Your post was incorrect. Excess protein will not be exclusively excreated as urea.

A repeating 'fallback' in this thread is "bulking, we don't want that for cycling". It highlights how little people understand about Protein powders and nutrition in general..

Protein powder is not for "bulking". High Carb mass gainers are the bulkers, it's all about excess calories and the convenience these products bring to those who need them.

I'm not sure I used the word "exclusively" at any point - after all, the human metabolism is far too complicated to say that - and no two people are the same. The point is this: any energy gained from protein is pretty much used up in accessing that energy so there will be next-to-no net deposition of fat. The real noticeable effect will be the excretion of urea. That's my point - which is as accurate as it needs to be. Now, there's a zillion other things that happen if we want to get entirely pedantic about it but that's entirely academic and too tedious to mention here.

Frankly I don't care what leads to bulking (I don't need it) nor do I care about protein shakes (I don't believe any of us road cyclists need them).

And (if you know anything about nutrition at all) you'll understand that we are all different even in some fundamental ways.

Your original post stated excess protein will be excreated in urea, that is an "exclusive" statement right there. You failed to mention any other outcomes from the process... We now have "pretty much used up" & "next to no net" comments from you. It's simple, excess calories get deposited as fat irrespective of the foodstuff used to create the excess.

What you believe "road cyclists" need is irrelavent to the original question posted by the OP. Do you believe off road cyclists need protein shakes?

I know nutrition, I understand it and the many varied aspects of a healthy lifestyle diet, it's a medical need...

meanredspider

OK - you want to be a pedant about it. But the only real outcome is that protein is excreted as urea. That's all that really matters. The truth is that you'll most likely get more calories from whatever your source of protein is - whether that's whey or turkey or whatever.

As for the topic - it's posted in the Training, Fitness and Health section of a road cycling forum....

I worked in R&D for 10 years for a diabetes care company in both insulin delivery and blood glucose measurement. I might understand more than you realise about nutrition.

fat daddy

diy wrote:

only 10% more protein per kcal than low fat cottage cheese. but a lot more fat.

whats wrong with fat ? ..... its vital for the body ... hormones ? ,.... you need them.

its why full fat milk is so good for you .. good load of carb, protien AND FAT !

charlie_potatoes

guy.spartacus wrote:

Charlie Potatoes wrote:

guy.spartacus wrote:

Nutrition timing has been proven to have very little real world effect on recovery and/or muscular gains.

Do you have a link to this please?

https://jissn.biomedcentral.com/article ... -2783-10-5

Thanks. For me the jury is still out. Interesting reading though.

smudgerii

meanredspider wrote:

OK - you want to be a pedant about it.

I worked in R&D for 10 years for a diabetes care company in both insulin delivery and blood glucose measurement. I might understand more than you realise about nutrition.

In that case your post should be more accurate. "Pedant"? No, just like accuracy from people who claim to be giving infomation/advice.

meanredspider

Smudgerii wrote:

meanredspider wrote:

OK - you want to be a pedant about it.

I worked in R&D for 10 years for a diabetes care company in both insulin delivery and blood glucose measurement. I might understand more than you realise about nutrition.

In that case your post should be more accurate. "Pedant"? No, just like accuracy from people who claim to be giving infomation/advice.

As I said, it's far far more complex than 99% of this forum would understand and, even then, they are only models of the various metabolic processes and swamped by the differences in our various make-ups. If you'd like to outline why it makes a blind bit of difference, I'd be very interested to read it. My son's studying biochemistry at Cambridge - his text on the chemistry of cells cost £100 and alone is the size and weight of two house bricks - if you want accuracy, feel free and I'll give you the ISBN

diy

how you deal with excess protein depends a lot on what else you are eating. If you are also consuming sufficient carbs and fat then the kcal in your protein shake will just go in the melting pot.

My point about the fat in high cost protein shakes is that they aren't exactly refined products given the cost. Slightly more protein than plenty of foods.

when i was seriously in to bodybuilding in my 20s i used to live on this crap. I consumed so much that i hardly had the appetite to eat normal food. things have come on a lot since then and you really can plan to get what you need from normal food.