Don't own any Rapha...but

on-yer-bike

Is the PT Jacket now called the PT training jacket?

matt_n-2

Navrig2 wrote:

ugo.santalucia wrote:

I have a pair of Rapha bibshorts... coming to the end of their life... thread kept coming undone since new, until my Mom saw them when I was in Italy and she sorted them in 5 minutes with the sewing machine. I've got a couple of jerseys, they are not better than the much cheaper Torm... value for money is not their forte, image is...
IMO they are more for those who do 30 miles to the cafe' and back on a sunday than those who do 10,000 miles a year...

This, Rapha have a couple of nice little finishes - pump holder, headphone cable guides, label with a wee story. I rarely carry a pump in my pockets, I never listen to music when riding on road and the story is nice the first time you read it. Otherwise you get much better VFM from Torm.

The limitation with Torm is colour selection compared to Rapha. I really like some of the Rapha country l/s merino jerseys.

The pump pocket is one of the most useful features for me, I can't stand a pump rattling around in jersey pockets.

Anonymous

Flasher wrote:

I don't think Mr Mottram will be in the poor house anytime soon.

http://road.cc/content/news/169832-raph ... es-nearly-£40-million…-profits-fall-165-cent

A bit disingenuous given he takes home max £200K salary (highest paid director) which doesn't seem like that much for a £40m business, and the co has paid no dividends for the last 3 years.

Sales of £38m make about £18mn profit showing a 100% markup but all the GP is swallowed by over £17mn overheads (of which £8mn staff costs - almost double last year!)

All in margins are nearer 1.5%, but I would expect this to increase substantially next year/2018 when the Sky sponsorship deal ends.

He's not a cash millionaire off the back of the company, despite the high prices.

stueys

I had the same information, that growth had been rapid but profit was very low due to (a) cost of growth (new stores, etc, etc, ) and (b) the sponsorship deals. The Sky deal was seen as beneficial both in terms of profile and developing the range but wasn't sustainable mid-term.

antfly

It's nice to know that if you buy Rapha a fair bit of the 100 % mark up is going to Sky..

rc856

Ah, decisions.
Typical that I'm leaning towards the Rapha PT cape or the Tempesta.
I'm used to having a bigger, and probably more flappy, cape that I chuck on over my jersey and even winter jacket.

I wonder if the Tempesta is worth the extra so I've kind of future proofed.

Mmm

stueys

antfly wrote:

I don't think much of the oft-mentioned Rapha repair service, I had a long sleeved sportwool jersey and it was laddering where the pockets were attached so I sent it for repair expecting it to come back stitched up and as good as new. I got it back about a month later with bloody great patches above the pockets ... I was gutted, it was ruined.

Send it back. I've used the repair service twice and have just received replacement new products. Customer service in my experience has been stellar, sounds as if you've had a bad experience, go back to them.

bendertherobot

RC856 wrote:

Ah, decisions.
Typical that I'm leaning towards the Rapha PT cape or the Tempesta.
I'm used to having a bigger, and probably more flappy, cape that I chuck on over my jersey and even winter jacket.

I wonder if the Tempesta is worth the extra so I've kind of future proofed.

Mmm

If you look around you might find an Assos Sturmprinz for that sort of money

kingstonian

I popped into the London store yesterday eve to try on the merino base layer and have a look at the Pro Team jacket. While there I saw the Pro Team race Cape - is this in effect their new version of the hardshell? Certainly looked and felt that way.

kingstonian

And I do agree on the posts earlier that they have diversified too much. It is hard as a consumer to try to unpick which Jersey or jacket is best for what I'm looking for. They have started to become a restaurant with an enormous menu - it becomes just too hard to decide what to order.

There were some staple products they made which were brilliant - I understand why they would want to make the odd tweak to them, change colour schemes etc but to ditch them completely seems very strange.

thegreatdivide

Kingstonian wrote:

I popped into the London store yesterday eve to try on the merino base layer and have a look at the Pro Team jacket. While there I saw the Pro Team race Cape - is this in effect their new version of the hardshell? Certainly looked and felt that way.

No. The Race Cape has been around since 2013.

thegreatdivide

Stueys wrote:

antfly wrote:

I don't think much of the oft-mentioned Rapha repair service, I had a long sleeved sportwool jersey and it was laddering where the pockets were attached so I sent it for repair expecting it to come back stitched up and as good as new. I got it back about a month later with bloody great patches above the pockets ... I was gutted, it was ruined.

Send it back. I've used the repair service twice and have just received replacement new products. Customer service in my experience has been stellar, sounds as if you've had a bad experience, go back to them.

I've returned to be fixed:

A pair of PT bibs I snagged - panel taken out and new panel put back in. Superb job.
A pair of Classic Mitts that were shredded in a crash - they replaced bits where they could or put patches over the other areas. They don't looks as new but two years on and I'm still using them.
A ripped pocket on a Classic Jersey - new pocket. As good as new.

I've also had to email about a bit of bobbling on the saddle area of a pair of Imperial Works PT bibs - they informed me that as they were brining in the RCC the IW bibs were discontinued - so they sent me a voucher for a new pair of PT bibs and told me to keep the old ones.

I've also had to email about the same issue on the original PT Winter Tights - they sent me a new pair and told me to keep the old ones which I'm still using. The new ones will probably get used for winter 2017/2018.

Would the other big players do any of this? Would they feck.

bendertherobot

thegreatdivide wrote:

Would the other big players do any of this? Would they feck.

Assos would, and have. Chapeau have free crash replacement. There are quite a few others.

thegreatdivide

bendertherobot wrote:

thegreatdivide wrote:

Would the other big players do any of this? Would they feck.

Assos would, and have. Chapeau have free crash replacement. There are quite a few others.

More than aware some other companies do a crash replacement.

It was in regards to the latter.

ugo.santalucia

Navrig2 wrote:

ugo.santalucia wrote:

I have a pair of Rapha bibshorts... coming to the end of their life... thread kept coming undone since new, until my Mom saw them when I was in Italy and she sorted them in 5 minutes with the sewing machine. I've got a couple of jerseys, they are not better than the much cheaper Torm... value for money is not their forte, image is...
IMO they are more for those who do 30 miles to the cafe' and back on a sunday than those who do 10,000 miles a year...

This, Rapha have a couple of nice little finishes - pump holder, headphone cable guides, label with a wee story. I rarely carry a pump in my pockets, I never listen to music when riding on road and the story is nice the first time you read it. Otherwise you get much better VFM from Torm.

The limitation with Torm is colour selection compared to Rapha. I really like some of the Rapha country l/s merino jerseys.

Mine must be pre-pump holder... the little story about pou-pou wore off in no time and the actual label came unstitched from inside the pocket. That one must be 2013, the other one (a CX cross black jersey with some coloured bits) is 2012 I think.
Torm's selection might be smaller, but given these days with Rapha you can choose between black, Sky black or looking like a bee, Torm still is a bigger selection of colours to me. Torm pockets got bigger than their mach 1 version too (thanks to me mainly!).

Rapha's sales smoothen the edge off their price... 120 quid becomes 100, it doesn't make much difference to be honest, if I can get something similar for 60.

Most of all, I think their design is very different from their design 5-8 years ago. It all changed when they teamed up with Sky and they made their way in the PRO-lookalike market... before it was mostly about having pastel coloured cycling garmets that weren't PRO peloton.

gabriel959

thegreatdivide wrote:

Stueys wrote:

antfly wrote:

I don't think much of the oft-mentioned Rapha repair service, I had a long sleeved sportwool jersey and it was laddering where the pockets were attached so I sent it for repair expecting it to come back stitched up and as good as new. I got it back about a month later with bloody great patches above the pockets ... I was gutted, it was ruined.

Send it back. I've used the repair service twice and have just received replacement new products. Customer service in my experience has been stellar, sounds as if you've had a bad experience, go back to them.

I've returned to be fixed:

A pair of PT bibs I snagged - panel taken out and new panel put back in. Superb job.
A pair of Classic Mitts that were shredded in a crash - they replaced bits where they could or put patches over the other areas. They don't looks as new but two years on and I'm still using them.
A ripped pocket on a Classic Jersey - new pocket. As good as new.

I've also had to email about a bit of bobbling on the saddle area of a pair of Imperial Works PT bibs - they informed me that as they were brining in the RCC the IW bibs were discontinued - so they sent me a voucher for a new pair of PT bibs and told me to keep the old ones.

I've also had to email about the same issue on the original PT Winter Tights - they sent me a new pair and told me to keep the old ones which I'm still using. The new ones will probably get used for winter 2017/2018.

Would the other big players do any of this? Would they feck.

I've had similar levels of customer support from Morvelo and from Shutt VR (long time ago now) so yes others do it.

For example, I bought a pair of 3/4 lengths from Morvelo and the stitching started to come off after about 10 months of use, they repaired them the first time, second time it happened the said it was possible it was due to the saddle that I was using but that they will refund me the cost of the bibs and let me keep them. Shutt did something similar with a jersey I bought from them.

I have heard that Gore's customer support is also excellent.

bendertherobot

thegreatdivide wrote:

bendertherobot wrote:

thegreatdivide wrote:

Would the other big players do any of this? Would they feck.

Assos would, and have. Chapeau have free crash replacement. There are quite a few others.

More than aware some other companies do a crash replacement.

It was in regards to the latter.

Latter what?

antfly

thegreatdivide wrote:

Stueys wrote:

antfly wrote:

I don't think much of the oft-mentioned Rapha repair service, I had a long sleeved sportwool jersey and it was laddering where the pockets were attached so I sent it for repair expecting it to come back stitched up and as good as new. I got it back about a month later with bloody great patches above the pockets ... I was gutted, it was ruined.

Send it back. I've used the repair service twice and have just received replacement new products. Customer service in my experience has been stellar, sounds as if you've had a bad experience, go back to them.

I've returned to be fixed:

A pair of PT bibs I snagged - panel taken out and new panel put back in. Superb job.
A pair of Classic Mitts that were shredded in a crash - they replaced bits where they could or put patches over the other areas. They don't looks as new but two years on and I'm still using them.
A ripped pocket on a Classic Jersey - new pocket. As good as new.

I've also had to email about a bit of bobbling on the saddle area of a pair of Imperial Works PT bibs - they informed me that as they were brining in the RCC the IW bibs were discontinued - so they sent me a voucher for a new pair of PT bibs and told me to keep the old ones.

I've also had to email about the same issue on the original PT Winter Tights - they sent me a new pair and told me to keep the old ones which I'm still using. The new ones will probably get used for winter 2017/2018.

Would the other big players do any of this? Would they feck.

It sounds like you have had better luck than me.
I did send a jersey (not crash damaged) to Assos in Switzerland for repair, it was back within a week. Also, I bought a bonka jacket from probikekit and realised it was too big after I had worn it once so they wouldn't take it back. I contacted Assos and they put me in touch with yellow, their U.K. distributor, and they sent me 2 jackets so that I could get the perfect fit.

Tenderloin

Anyone going to the Kilver court sample sale?

sloppyschleckonds

Tenderloin wrote:

Anyone going to the Kilver court sample sale?

There is a RCC member on here flying from Scotland to get in an hour earlier.

meanredspider

SloppySchleckonds wrote:

Tenderloin wrote:

Anyone going to the Kilver court sample sale?

There is a RCC member on here flying from Scotland to get in an hour earlier.

I'll see him there then. I'm driving 20 minutes down the road to get there. Though if he's not there on time, I'll miss him because I'll be back at work.

(Did someone make an AssUmption? )

navrig2

ugo.santalucia wrote:

Navrig2 wrote:

ugo.santalucia wrote:

I have a pair of Rapha bibshorts... coming to the end of their life... thread kept coming undone since new, until my Mom saw them when I was in Italy and she sorted them in 5 minutes with the sewing machine. I've got a couple of jerseys, they are not better than the much cheaper Torm... value for money is not their forte, image is...
IMO they are more for those who do 30 miles to the cafe' and back on a sunday than those who do 10,000 miles a year...

This, Rapha have a couple of nice little finishes - pump holder, headphone cable guides, label with a wee story. I rarely carry a pump in my pockets, I never listen to music when riding on road and the story is nice the first time you read it. Otherwise you get much better VFM from Torm.

The limitation with Torm is colour selection compared to Rapha. I really like some of the Rapha country l/s merino jerseys.

Mine must be pre-pump holder... the little story about pou-pou wore off in no time and the actual label came unstitched from inside the pocket. That one must be 2013, the other one (a CX cross black jersey with some coloured bits) is 2012 I think.
Torm's selection might be smaller, but given these days with Rapha you can choose between black, Sky black or looking like a bee, Torm still is a bigger selection of colours to me. Torm pockets got bigger than their mach 1 version too (thanks to me mainly!).

Rapha's sales smoothen the edge off their price... 120 quid becomes 100, it doesn't make much difference to be honest, if I can get something similar for 60.

Most of all, I think their design is very different from their design 5-8 years ago. It all changed when they teamed up with Sky and they made their way in the PRO-lookalike market... before it was mostly about having pastel coloured cycling garmets that weren't PRO peloton.

Just had a look at the Torm website. They have increased the colour range since I last bought. Not sure I could justify and new jerseys though.

Torm are also very active on here and listen to customers. There is a thread where comments were made about the size of the pockets. Since then they have increased the pocket size on the larger jerseys. Not sure I've seen anyone from Rapha on here?

Milton81

Really do not get all the Rapha haters commenting. I don't personally ride Rapha gear (maybe I simply can't afford it) but I have ridden and bought lots and lots of gear over the years, most of my mates have some rapha gear and I must say that nothing compares to Rapha for attention to details, service, and overall quality! Yes they have a lot of competition these days but there are brands out there selling at the same price or even more (see maap) with half of the attention to details and features! fair to say it is expensive but to say it is no good or compare it to brands like Torm it's simply crazy!
My two cents worth.

navrig2

Milton81 wrote:

.... or compare it to brands like Torm it's simply crazy!
My two cents worth.

I've got 4 Torm jerseys. All are merino sportswool. One is long sleeve.

I've got one Rapha. It's a long sleeve merino sportswool so directly comparable in functionality.

In terms of comfort, feel and warmth there is no perceivable difference. The Torm stitching and fit is just as good as the Rapha.

The noticeable differences are, as stated earlier in this thread, the Rapha has a mini pump holder in the middle pocket, has a cable guide part the way up the side seam and has a flat label. The Rapha has one zipped pocket. The Torm has two zipped pockets. The Torm has ever so slightly smaller pockets (which has now been addressed by Torm). The Rapha sleeves are slightly longer but the Torm suit me better.

The Rapha cost me about £10 more than the Torm however that was with a decent discount on the Rapha RRP.

Without a doubt they are comparable.

PS I am not a Rapha hater. I really like their stuff and in particular their colour schemes.

meanredspider

Navrig2 wrote:

Not sure I've seen anyone from Rapha on here?

I can't either. But then Rapha has its own global forum where it asks for feedback on the products and you'd be wrong to think that their own club members are soft on them; quite the opposite. There are also stores with Rapha employees who listen to what customers say when they try on the clothes. They have also introduced a rating system on their products. So, just because they don't come on here like Torm do (and kudos to Torm for that) it doesn't mean they're not listening.

I like Rapha's stuff and joined RCC because the Rapha store was 5 minutes from my apartment in Amsterdam: fabulous for an expat cyclist. I won't renew at the end of this year. I'd also say that I'm drifting back to Assos which is where my last few "pieces" (god, I hate that expression - it's cycle clothing not artwork) have come from. I've had a lot more quality issues from Rapha that I ever have from Assos. I've not tried Torm but I have tried many of the others and the detail and quality isn't quite up there with Assos or, when they get it right, with Rapha. I'm still wearing an Assos jersey that I bought secondhand 6 or 7 years ago and Assos shorts that are over 5 years old. The price may be high but the value is exceptional.

sloppyschleckonds

meanredspider wrote:

SloppySchleckonds wrote:

Tenderloin wrote:

Anyone going to the Kilver court sample sale?

There is a RCC member on here flying from Scotland to get in an hour earlier.

I'll see him there then. I'm driving 20 minutes down the road to get there. Though if he's not there on time, I'll miss him because I'll be back at work.

(Did someone make an AssUmption? )

Not every post on here is about you, don't assume that.

meanredspider

Well, dodging all the other BR-posting RCC members from Scotland , I picked up a few bits and bobs the best of which was the winter jersey (the one with the reflective Rapha script appliquéd to the back) for £55. It's a beautifully-made thing.

sloppyschleckonds

I saw the XL & XXL rails swarmed with people, nothing particularly worthwhile, mitts £25, PT Overshoes £35

Anything more than a 10 minute trip and its probably not worth the bother.
Highlight was the Mclaren 570 parked in the car park

thebikeboy16

I recently had to send back a pair of Rapha bib shorts (after they had the balls to say to me when I bought them "they'll last a lifetime") because the stitching on the pad came loose after I put part of a multi-tool in the same wash by accident. They do offer a 30-day period during which they will give you a replacement pair of shorts free of charge should there be any issues - supposedly with the manufacturing. This is their repair:



Not very good, is it? Hopefully they will repair it this time.

gweeds

How is that an issue with manufacturing?