Don't own any Rapha...but

rc856

why am I being suddenly drawn to it?
Is it because I'm in my 40's!

My Castelli rain cape is ok but I'm finding myself checking out the Pro Team cape...a snip at £220!
I've even phoned Rapha getting the latest on the new version of the rain jacket coming out!

Can I be saved or should I just embrace it as a great bit of kit?

sloppyschleckonds

What driver do you use?

andcp

SloppySchleckonds wrote:

What driver do you use?

He's called James I believe, and he's a chauffeur don't you know...

Secteur

I find rapha hit and miss - I've spent well over £1k on their stuff and whilst one or two pieces have been great, most have been very average and others (I'm thinking of the rain jacket) absolute stinkers.

I have bought a lot of stuff over the years from the most expensive £££ stuff, to super cheap and I have found time and time again Sportful to be my favourite, with a smattering of dhb. The very best deep winter gloves I have ever owned were £9.99 from Aldi.

Do the rapha thing, and once it's out of your system, you can get much better value and better quality stuff by shopping around other brands.

bsharp77

I agree on sportful....every single piece I have is great, and I have a few bits now.
As said, Rapha is hit and miss, some jerseys are ok (if you get them in the sale!), but they have a lot of very good competition these days.
Dhb is also great for the money, they have definitely upped their game over the past few months.

flasher

The Pro Team race cape is a great bit of kit as is the Pro Team Jacket and Pro Team shorts the rest I'm not that bothered about.

But only in the sale!

cookeeemonster

Ignore the haters, Rapha have far more hits than misses, and holds their Ebay value very well so the stuff that don't work for you can be sold on for not much loss (and sometimes a profit if bought in the sale)

I run hot so didn't think the rain jacket was so good...also don't think the gabba is as good as made out so strike one off for Castelli too (they own sportful btw)

I like my sportful stuff I own but their stuff does shout cyclist at you - depends if you think or care about that sort of style or not.

cookeeemonster

Ps the new high end Gore jacket is meant to be amazing, and I assume the Castelli top of the range rain jacket will also be great

chippyk

Love the Pro Team bib shorts (archive shop price) and I have some Brevet jerseys from there too. Expensive and there's much better value but, if you can afford it, ignore the haters and buy it.

I rode out last Sunday for 100k and on the way out, with the sun and wind on my back, my best bike and best wheels and lots of Rapha and S-Works kit I felt on top of the world. Which is surely why we all ride our bikes?

vinnymarsden

I bought a pair of the Core shorts and after one ride they had a hole on inner thigh! But I also bought, in the sale, the Pro team base layer, which is a really smart bit of kit, so I agree, very hit and miss, I wonder how their sales will go once their exposure/profile drops when Sky swap outfitters next season?
Personally, I think the Rapha brand is big enough on its own now, but I'm not sure their pricing has ever been sensible!
For me , if I'm buying top end stuff I generally go Etxeondo or Gore.
I know people who swear by Rapha, and, it's your dollar.....spend it as you will, but personally I wouldn't go full kit range from them.

stueys

I've bought a lot of their stuff over the years, the majority of the Rapha stuff is top drawer (especially pro team range, the race cape is excellent btw) plus they back the product with excellent customer service (life time repair, etc, etc). They invest in the sport, sponsoring teams and events.

Yes it's expensive, but in the main you get what you pay for. The pricing makes them easy to knock but do what most of us do which is wait for the sales. And to be honest their use of fabrics makes them far more innovative than most other brands out there.

rc856

Cheers, some answers I hoped for and expected

This is where I get confused as to a jacket/cape....leave with it on/put on if it starts raining.

Generally I would probably turbo if it's bouncing down at going out time.

I like the look of the Castelli Tempesta... er, only £300!!
Pretty dear if it's only keeping me dry if it rains when I'm out.

Don't want an expensive mistake!

I realise I'm a bit of a brand snob as well as I'm looking at these before the likes of Sportful, dhb etc.

I'm not a dentist and don't even play golf!

bendertherobot

There are, as said, many more hits than misses. But, in terms of the rain garments, they are good though not necessarily better than others of the same or lesser price.

The hardshell was an outstanding piece. A hit. But, perhaps Rapha see it as a miss as it's been dropped. The venerable rain jacket sees only one colourway, the colour of the road. The race cape is universally praised but, that price. As you say, you'd probably stay in so is £220 worth it for being caught out? Might be. But there are others that are excellent. The Madison Apex jacket was stunning and, for me, better than the Rapha rain jacket. Annoyingly they've replaced that but the Premio looks like a good replacement. http://www.madison.co.uk/products/cycli ... red-large/

If you want to spend £220 on a jacket that should absolutely work then the Gore One is supposedly the daddy. http://www.wiggle.co.uk/gore-bike-wear- ... ve-jacket/ yet again road coloured.

Or you could use one of the new fangled rain garment things like the Mossa, Gabba, Perfetto, Orkaan etc and skip the rain jacket altogether.

None of this is meant to be negative to Rapha at all. But in that particular market place there are many other options so unless you really love the chartreuse look of the race cape there's a lot to look at.

(Or just get one off ebay, mind, you should be able to hunt down an Assos Sturmprinz for £150 or so on ebay if you're really lucky)

sloppyschleckonds

bendertherobot wrote:

If you want to spend £220 on a jacket that should absolutely work then the Gore One is supposedly the daddy. http://www.wiggle.co.uk/gore-bike-wear- ... ve-jacket/ yet again road coloured.

Have you tried it BTR?

bendertherobot

No. But the reports all seem good. I was a big fan of the old oxygen

kajjal

Its good to have a wide range of kit available. Manufacturers are now sneakier with their pricing. Most new kit comes at out at full price to catch those with plenty of cash to burn and then goes through a series of price cuts and rises to catch other people who won't spend as much. Eventually at the end of the season you get the real bargains.

Buy whatever you can afford that makes you happy on the bike.

ugo.santalucia

I have a pair of Rapha bibshorts... coming to the end of their life... thread kept coming undone since new, until my Mom saw them when I was in Italy and she sorted them in 5 minutes with the sewing machine. I've got a couple of jerseys, they are not better than the much cheaper Torm... value for money is not their forte, image is...
IMO they are more for those who do 30 miles to the cafe' and back on a sunday than those who do 10,000 miles a year...

Midlands Grimpeur

I have been buying Rapha since they started and have always found their gear to be really good quality and in terms of fit and comfort it suits me well. Also never had much of an issue with stuff lasting or needing a repair, only the gloves which can see stitching break early on.

This is where I get confused as to a jacket/cape....leave with it on/put on if it starts raining

Had both, the idea of the cape is you put it on for a passing shower. It is cut short at the back so you would not wear it with constant rain as your behind gets soaked pretty quick. The rain jacket is meant more for longer rides in wet weather. To be honest the rain jacket is one of the few bits of rapha kit I was not that impressed with. The first version was great, kept its proofing treatment for about 18 months. Had 2 since then and both started to need reproofing after 3-4 washes, it's also not very breathable and I found I was overheating for anything longer than half an hour.

Switched to the Gore One in the end and it lives up to the hype, totally waterproof and breathable. It is just a thin shell though you can wear it all year round and just put it over your regular kit in any type of rain (would not wear it as a layer for warmth in winter though). You can also pack it down to the size of a mars bar so I just carry it in a pocket now on every ride!

ugo.santalucia

Maybe I have been unlucky, but I find they use very cheap thread that easily snaps and comes loose Both the material and the finish are not better than the competition, in my experience worse, which begs the question what exactly are you paying for (manufacturing in East Europe instead of India? With Brexit it no longer makes any difference). When their design was to my taste I could justify buying a few bits 'cause I liked them, but the recent crop also looks ghastly (IMO) so not for me... If you believe in magazines reviews they hardly ever come on top, which again begs the question why Rapha?

grenw

RC856 wrote:

Ce.

I like the look of the Castelli Tempesta... er, only £300!!
Pretty dear if it's only keeping me dry if it rains when I'm out.

I bought my wife the women's one for Xmas last year. She thinks it's awesome and will wears it happily for a 4-5 hour ride even if only slightly drizzling and never overheats. I'd be looking at the new Gore one though without the outer layer either that or the Castelli version of it.

daniel_b

bendertherobot wrote:

No. But the reports all seem good. I was a big fan of the old oxygen

Does it seriously just come in black?

stueys

Daniel B wrote:

bendertherobot wrote:

No. But the reports all seem good. I was a big fan of the old oxygen

Does it seriously just come in black?

It's a new gore fabric, essentially it's two layer as opposed to the normal three. This means it's highly breathable and not dependent on dwp treatment to prevent the product wetting out. I think gore are calling it shake dry or something to emphasis this. It also means it's lighter than anything out there, albeit at the expense of durability. But the downside is that gore have yet to work out how to make any different colours. The only other people with the fabric so far are castelli, and arcteryx had a small run of a running jacket earlier this year.

It looks very, very nice though. I'm thinking of getting one for running.

daniel_b

Ah ok, thanks for the explanation.

Gore tops have never matched up with my dimensions very well, where as Rapha and Castelli are quite the opposite, so unlikely something I would try, but good to see new tech being developed and brought to market.

stueys

ugo.santalucia wrote:

Maybe I have been unlucky, but I find they use very cheap thread that easily snaps and comes loose Both the material and the finish are not better than the competition, in my experience worse, which begs the question what exactly are you paying for (manufacturing in East Europe instead of India? With Brexit it no longer makes any difference). When their design was to my taste I could justify buying a few bits 'cause I liked them, but the recent crop also looks ghastly (IMO) so not for me... If you believe in magazines reviews they hardly ever come on top, which again begs the question why Rapha?

I'm interested in your sample size? From your previous post I'm inferring that you've had one set of bib shorts and one of the classic merino wool blend jerseys. Which means you've missed the whole pro team range, in fact you've missed anything they've released in the last five years using the newer materials and designs. That's not a fair or even vaguely comprehensive basis to compare against.

Rapha aren't perfect, but in my experience their stuff tends to be good to top notch. And the reviews reflect this, a quick search on road.cc shows most stuff is top rated with some comments on the pricing. And the customer service in my opinion is top notch.

Rapha get unfairly knocked on this forum, it's almost become a sport and the criticism invariably isn't factual. Whether you think their pricing is high or not is a personal choice, I buy in the sales and it then compares price wise to their quality peer group. But their stuff (in the main) is good quality and innovative in places.

stueys

Daniel B wrote:

Ah ok, thanks for the explanation.

Gore tops have never matched up with my dimensions very well, where as Rapha and Castelli are quite the opposite, so unlikely something I would try, but good to see new tech being developed and brought to market.

I'm with you, gore stuff never seems to fit me either. Castelli and Rapha do. The castelli version is called the Idro if you want to check that one out. It will become more wide spread but gore are drip feeding it out at the moment.

rc856

More choice...cheers

Daft question but are they as described?
I would always have a cape as being in my back pocket to put on if it's raining and a jacket I would have on when I leave the house.

I don't mind the rain at all if I'm out already but wanted something a bit better to have in my pocket compared to what I have now.
I really like the look of the Castelli jacket(!) but again I wasn't if this is something I'd have stored away.
Maybe it would make me go out in the rain!

bendertherobot

Stueys wrote:

ugo.santalucia wrote:

Maybe I have been unlucky, but I find they use very cheap thread that easily snaps and comes loose Both the material and the finish are not better than the competition, in my experience worse, which begs the question what exactly are you paying for (manufacturing in East Europe instead of India? With Brexit it no longer makes any difference). When their design was to my taste I could justify buying a few bits 'cause I liked them, but the recent crop also looks ghastly (IMO) so not for me... If you believe in magazines reviews they hardly ever come on top, which again begs the question why Rapha?

I'm interested in your sample size? From your previous post I'm inferring that you've had one set of bib shorts and one of the classic merino wool blend jerseys. Which means you've missed the whole pro team range, in fact you've missed anything they've released in the last five years using the newer materials and designs. That's not a fair or even vaguely comprehensive basis to compare against.

Rapha aren't perfect, but in my experience their stuff tends to be good to top notch. And the reviews reflect this, a quick search on road.cc shows most stuff is top rated with some comments on the pricing. And the customer service in my opinion is top notch.

Rapha get unfairly knocked on this forum, it's almost become a sport and the criticism invariably isn't factual. Whether you think their pricing is high or not is a personal choice, I buy in the sales and it then compares price wise to their quality peer group. But their stuff (in the main) is good quality and innovative in places.

Unfairly? It's tricky. I tend to agree mostly with the fact that it's unfair. But when they present stuff like the Shadow jersey and shorts as the second coming and charge second coming ringside ticket prices they have to be put under greater scrutiny. At halo prices the halo product has to work and, it appears from customer reviews, it's coming up short. But, otherwise, every thing they do they do rather well and the only question is how much better they do it. In terms of comparitors it's quite easy to question whether their £180 bibs are better than everyone else's £100 ones. But, if those are the ones that offer nirvana then price becomes irrelevant. They offer some bonkers accessories but they're far from alone in that. And there are some absolute gems. Actually, were. Because I think there's a problem with diversification. It's all about the pro rider now, and some things are notably absent.

The Rapha softshell was a gem. Gone. The hardshell a brilliant, wonderful thing, gone. The Pro Team jacket remains, happily, for it's one of the best things they did. Elsewhere we have transfer jackets for that 10 minutes on the rollers during warmdown. Yet there are more jerseys than every before and something for everyone there. I do fear that there's a little too much diversification but, at the end of the day, they wouldn't do that if they weren't in rude health.

stueys

Definitly agree re shadow, think I commented on a thread earlier this week that 'the pricing is nuts'. They lost it completely with that. But they still have some absolute gems (try the brevet insulated gillet, pro team climbers jersey, race cape etc....). The core range is their attempt at diversification, I've not tried it so can't really comment on whether that hits the mark or not, but I think it's the attempt to brand appeal.

It's fine to knock their products that don't work (I didn't really rate the rain jacket), it's fine to knock their pricing. But ultimately Rapha is a premium product (both kit and service) at a premium price. We can all debate whether the price point is worthwhile but I think the quality is fairly obvious.

bendertherobot

The quality is but I do think it's still fair to compare certain price points with lesser brands where the quality is arguably equal. Remember that much of what assos now produce is cheaper.

bendertherobot

(I may well get the Brevet gilet insulated btw, having just bought the windproof brevet jersey long sleeve)

Garry H

I have a couple of their jerseys (bought at sale prices) and the excellent pro team jacket, which I rate as one of the best bits of cycle clothing I've ever bought, along with Assos shorts.

I have a Torm long sleeved Jersey, which I only use for commuting, because the pocket design is awful and the sleeves are on the short side. The stitching also came undone at the back of the collar, but my mother in law fixed it. I would consider buying another one th o ugh, because the price is ok and I understand that they have changed the pocket design.

I cycle about 7000 miles a year and very rarely indulge in cafe stops