Don't own any Rapha...but

bendertherobot

Cafe stops are all I ever seem to do besides commuting now. And the wife is a Dentist.

Garry H

bendertherobot wrote:

Cafe stops are all I ever seem to do besides commuting now. And the wife is a Dentist.

It's in her interest then

kingstonian

I have a few bits of Rapha......

My 1 pair of Classic bibshorts are ace, really comfortable and can't fault the quality as they are just as good now as the day I bought them. Also have one pair of three quarter bibs which are also great. The Classic Jersey is also really good, perfect fit and has held up well to plenty of use. One pair of arm warmers are also great, they get a lot of use and if I lost them I'd just buy another pair rather than try any from another manufacturer.

So that's all great, but I also have a gilet which .......well, Imdon't have it as I had to send it back a week ago, I've used it maybe half a dozen times and the plastic grippers than hold the waist cord have both split. Rapha have had it for about a week now, haven't heard from them so will be chasing them up tomorrow.

So most of my experiences have been great, but with a blip on the most recent purchase.

cookeeemonster

ugo.santalucia wrote:

I have a pair of Rapha bibshorts... coming to the end of their life... thread kept coming undone since new, until my Mom saw them when I was in Italy and she sorted them in 5 minutes with the sewing machine. I've got a couple of jerseys, they are not better than the much cheaper Torm... value for money is not their forte, image is...
IMO they are more for those who do 30 miles to the cafe' and back on a sunday than those who do 10,000 miles a year...

My experience is the opposite. I bought a long sleeve torn before I bought any Rapha (because they 100% ripped of the style and was 'cheap'). After all the hype about sportswool I'd read I was hugely disappointed with what I got. Comfort against skin? Not really. Warm when cold? No. Cool when hot? Not that good. Resists odours? Nope.

Then the back bobbled after a few washes.

Eventually I plunged for the Rapha version and finally I got the sportswool hype. It's a totally different material just as one cotton t shirt can feel totally different to another. And I do 7k a year...and tend to get a more than decent Ebay return despite heavy use.

Not tried the shorts though, like my discounted assos ones though!

Garry H

Stueys wrote:

Daniel B wrote:

Ah ok, thanks for the explanation.

Gore tops have never matched up with my dimensions very well, where as Rapha and Castelli are quite the opposite, so unlikely something I would try, but good to see new tech being developed and brought to market.

I'm with you, gore stuff never seems to fit me either. Castelli and Rapha do. The castelli version is called the Idro if you want to check that one out. It will become more wide spread but gore are drip feeding it out at the moment.

They match up with my dimensions, just not my expectations, given the marketing hype that they put out.

awavey

forget the rules, if you like it, just wear it...I started off only buying their stuff in sales, mainly to see what it was like and I liked the styling, but have slowly begun to collect more and even saved up for a couple of full price jerseys I felt I really needed as the fit has been good & comfortable, the quality Ive had no real complaints, I broke some of the elastic in a sock I think is the only thing thats really gone wrong for me, its not stuff I put on the every day kit pile so its not constantly being worn and in the wash cycle but I think alot of the angst people had about Rapha both as abrand and as kit isnt as applicable now

antlaff

Garry H wrote:

I have a couple of their jerseys (bought at sale prices) and the excellent pro team jacket, which I rate as one of the best bits of cycle clothing I've ever bought, along with Assos shorts.

Yep PT Jacket is brilliant. I didn't realise how good it was until I bought a Gabba...just doesn't compare.

bernithebiker

When you consider that Rapha aren't paying any middlemen, and that their production costs will be very similar to Castelli, etc. (made in Romania mostly?), they must be cashing in some pretty juicy margins.

It's fine to say 'I only buy in the sales', but you can also buy Castelli, etc. in the sales, so the difference is still there.

I have some Rapha PT shorts, (bought in the sale!) very good, but not amazing, I prefer the lighter fit of Castelli. A PT lightweight climber's jersey I just didn't get on with so went to my wife, who seems to like their stuff more than I do.

The arm warmers are nice.

PTestTeam

bendertherobot wrote:

Stueys wrote:

ugo.santalucia wrote:

Maybe I have been unlucky, but I find they use very cheap thread that easily snaps and comes loose Both the material and the finish are not better than the competition, in my experience worse, which begs the question what exactly are you paying for (manufacturing in East Europe instead of India? With Brexit it no longer makes any difference). When their design was to my taste I could justify buying a few bits 'cause I liked them, but the recent crop also looks ghastly (IMO) so not for me... If you believe in magazines reviews they hardly ever come on top, which again begs the question why Rapha?

I'm interested in your sample size? From your previous post I'm inferring that you've had one set of bib shorts and one of the classic merino wool blend jerseys. Which means you've missed the whole pro team range, in fact you've missed anything they've released in the last five years using the newer materials and designs. That's not a fair or even vaguely comprehensive basis to compare against.

Rapha aren't perfect, but in my experience their stuff tends to be good to top notch. And the reviews reflect this, a quick search on road.cc shows most stuff is top rated with some comments on the pricing. And the customer service in my opinion is top notch.

Rapha get unfairly knocked on this forum, it's almost become a sport and the criticism invariably isn't factual. Whether you think their pricing is high or not is a personal choice, I buy in the sales and it then compares price wise to their quality peer group. But their stuff (in the main) is good quality and innovative in places.

Unfairly? It's tricky. I tend to agree mostly with the fact that it's unfair. But when they present stuff like the Shadow jersey and shorts as the second coming and charge second coming ringside ticket prices they have to be put under greater scrutiny. At halo prices the halo product has to work and, it appears from customer reviews, it's coming up short. But, otherwise, every thing they do they do rather well and the only question is how much better they do it. In terms of comparitors it's quite easy to question whether their £180 bibs are better than everyone else's £100 ones. But, if those are the ones that offer nirvana then price becomes irrelevant. They offer some bonkers accessories but they're far from alone in that. And there are some absolute gems. Actually, were. Because I think there's a problem with diversification. It's all about the pro rider now, and some things are notably absent.

The Rapha softshell was a gem. Gone. The hardshell a brilliant, wonderful thing, gone. The Pro Team jacket remains, happily, for it's one of the best things they did. Elsewhere we have transfer jackets for that 10 minutes on the rollers during warmdown. Yet there are more jerseys than every before and something for everyone there. I do fear that there's a little too much diversification but, at the end of the day, they wouldn't do that if they weren't in rude health.

WHAT! I bought one of these when Rapha first started and I thought it was a garment that would be one of their staple pieces. Can't believe they've got rid of it

bendertherobot

In terms of winter it's arguably their most famous piece. I am quite staggered by its omission.

cookeeemonster

bendertherobot wrote:

In terms of winter it's arguably their most famous piece. I am quite staggered by its omission.

They released a 'version 2' of their classic jersey, maybe they're working on a new version of this?

stueys

bendertherobot wrote:

In terms of winter it's arguably their most famous piece. I am quite staggered by its omission.

I think the PT Jacket stole the limelight, it became the go-to soft shell.

Still agree it seems odd to drop. Guess the closest comparable would be http://www.rapha.cc/gb/en/shop/pro-team ... ct/TRA01XX, which looks like the old soft shell in terms of spec, this one http://www.rapha.cc/gb/en/shop/pro-team ... duct/PST02, looks a step up and also a step up in cash.

My mate had one of the PT Softshell's out in the Alps two weeks back and said it was pretty good, he was using over a base layer in the wet and cold. I've not tried so cant comment or compare it to the old PT jacket. It seemed to be more water resistant judging by when he was using it without a rain jacket, I was in a race cape in the same conditions.

bendertherobot

Stueys wrote:

bendertherobot wrote:

In terms of winter it's arguably their most famous piece. I am quite staggered by its omission.

I think the PT Jacket stole the limelight, it became the go-to soft shell.

Still agree it seems odd to drop. Guess the closest comparable would be http://www.rapha.cc/gb/en/shop/pro-team ... ct/TRA01XX, which looks like the old soft shell in terms of spec, this one http://www.rapha.cc/gb/en/shop/pro-team ... duct/PST02, looks a step up and also a step up in cash.

My mate had one of the PT Softshell's out in the Alps two weeks back and said it was pretty good, he was using over a base layer in the wet and cold. I've not tried so cant comment or compare it to the old PT jacket. It seemed to be more water resistant judging by when he was using it without a rain jacket, I was in a race cape in the same conditions.

That first one is the Pro Team Jacket renamed to have training in the title. Great product but not a commuting/city/cafe stop thing like the old classic one. The latter, well, on the latter I should probably shut up. It's a gabba type thing and, well, I hated it.........

stueys

bendertherobot wrote:

That first one is the Pro Team Jacket renamed to have training in the title. Great product but not a commuting/city/cafe stop thing like the old classic one. The latter, well, on the latter I should probably shut up. It's a gabba type thing and, well, I hated it.........

What didn't you like out of interest?

Re gabba, the prefetto is becoming my preferred, it's that bit more breathable. But tried my stolen goat Orakan a couple of times over the weekend and I think it might just trump them all, including my mossa. Need to give it a spin in proper rain still.

bendertherobot

Stueys wrote:

bendertherobot wrote:

That first one is the Pro Team Jacket renamed to have training in the title. Great product but not a commuting/city/cafe stop thing like the old classic one. The latter, well, on the latter I should probably shut up. It's a gabba type thing and, well, I hated it.........

What didn't you like out of interest?

Re gabba, the prefetto is becoming my preferred, it's that bit more breathable. But tried my stolen goat Orakan a couple of times over the weekend and I think it might just trump them all, including my mossa. Need to give it a spin in proper rain still.

It's not a warm item, it's not a particularly water resistant item. For me it was sub Gabba at twice the price. And that we well before I discovered the Mossa. It's probably ok for massive pace pro riders but for me I felt let down by it. Froze half to death on one ride. I do like the Perfetto, fit aside. But not in preference to my Mossa. But they are, for me, for different days.

navrig2

ugo.santalucia wrote:

I have a pair of Rapha bibshorts... coming to the end of their life... thread kept coming undone since new, until my Mom saw them when I was in Italy and she sorted them in 5 minutes with the sewing machine. I've got a couple of jerseys, they are not better than the much cheaper Torm... value for money is not their forte, image is...
IMO they are more for those who do 30 miles to the cafe' and back on a sunday than those who do 10,000 miles a year...

This, Rapha have a couple of nice little finishes - pump holder, headphone cable guides, label with a wee story. I rarely carry a pump in my pockets, I never listen to music when riding on road and the story is nice the first time you read it. Otherwise you get much better VFM from Torm.

The limitation with Torm is colour selection compared to Rapha. I really like some of the Rapha country l/s merino jerseys.

rick_chasey

antlaff wrote:

Garry H wrote:

I have a couple of their jerseys (bought at sale prices) and the excellent pro team jacket, which I rate as one of the best bits of cycle clothing I've ever bought, along with Assos shorts.

Yep PT Jacket is brilliant. I didn't realise how good it was until I bought a Gabba...just doesn't compare.

Outstanding piece of kit.

Pro-team range is where the quality is, though I think even I draw the line at aero socks...

Seem to have done away with the PT jacket on their website though unless it's under the new name 'proteam training jacket'.

kingstonian

What's the difference between the Pro Team Training and Softshell jackets? Apart from forty quid, of course.

bendertherobot

Kingstonian wrote:

What's the difference between the Pro Team Training and Softshell jackets? Apart from forty quid, of course.

Rapha like to confuse.

The Pro Team Training jacket is, of course, a softshell. But it's a typical one, so windproof, fleece lined and fleecy at the back.

The Pro Team Softshell jacket is, arguably, not really a softshell. Unless the Mossa, Gabba et al are softshells. But it's not a hardshell, so they get a pass.

Essentially the latter is their Gabba. But is intended to be more hardcore.

gabriel959

Stueys wrote:

Daniel B wrote:

Ah ok, thanks for the explanation.

Gore tops have never matched up with my dimensions very well, where as Rapha and Castelli are quite the opposite, so unlikely something I would try, but good to see new tech being developed and brought to market.

I'm with you, gore stuff never seems to fit me either. Castelli and Rapha do. The castelli version is called the Idro if you want to check that one out. It will become more wide spread but gore are drip feeding it out at the moment.

Whereas Gore stuff fits me brilliantly and Castelli stuff mostly doesn't ;-) I am very long though at 6' 4.5" but wear a medium in jerseys and large for shorts.

Gore is my top brand, they have the best shorts in the Oxygen range, and more so at the price I paid. Their new fleeced backed ones with windproof material are the best thing since sliced bread. And I paid £53 for each pair, beat that. They have relegated my Etxeondo and Assos ones to commuting duties.

Their winter clothing is where they excel though. The Gore Xenon Long sleeved jersey is a marvel, it has a fantastic race cut and it can be used in a wide range of temperatures. Their jackets are also great fitting and well made. Their winter gloves are great too, in fact they are my favourite. I have some of their summer jerseys but I am not too fond of their designs and the materials. Nothing bad, but not excellent either, just good or very good.

Rapha stuff is good though, their Pro Team jacket I have is a fantastic piece of kit, and so is my Rapha rucksack. Well thought-out products, but I have only bought them in the sale. For some reason I am incapable of paying full price for cycle clothing or bikes, seeing as everything seems to get discounted these days sooner rather than later.

gweeds

The new PT Training Jacket is a different animal to the older PT Jacket - a bit less fleecy, a bit more waterproof.

I absolutely LOVE Rapha. The cut for me is absolutely bang on. Quality has never been an issue and I've jerseys from 7 years ago that are well used and still seeing use now. Resale prices are always decent. I like the aesthetic and that's important to me. I like feeling like I look good on the bike. That might make me shallow but I don't really care.

Agreed on the hardshell and softshell jackets. Those should be staples that are there every year. The v2 iteration of the PT Softshell Jacket is far better than the first as well.

BTW - the new Gore rain jacket is as good as they say, but the cut is just a little off and too short for me.

bendertherobot

Gweeds wrote:

The new PT Training Jacket is a different animal to the older PT Jacket - a bit less fleecy, a bit more waterproof.

I absolutely LOVE Rapha. The cut for me is absolutely bang on. Quality has never been an issue and I've jerseys from 7 years ago that are well used and still seeing use now. Resale prices are always decent. I like the aesthetic and that's important to me. I like feeling like I look good on the bike. That might make me shallow but I don't really care.

Agreed on the hardshell and softshell jackets. Those should be staples that are there every year. The v2 iteration of the PT Softshell Jacket is far better than the first as well.

BTW - the new Gore rain jacket is as good as they say, but the cut is just a little off and too short for me.

Ta for the update on the PT. That's interesting as well. I wonder why they went in that direction. Seems odd to market the PTS as the waterproof one and then strip down the bloody excellent PT. I had a look at that Gore in Evans today. It's incredibly thin. Amazing thing. But, as you say, if the fit is off...and that fit is crucial when something is potentially flappy

gweeds

I'm as confused as anyone but I'm guessing they're transitioning out of Sky and remarketing some stuff.

I do know (from an ex-Rapha staff member) that the Sky deal cost an absolute fortune for them, to the extent that they were running on zero to minus margins on many items. Calculated to raise profile and it worked but ferociously pricey.

bendertherobot

I do think they diversity too much. And cock about on tried and tested products that they make as good as, if not better, than anyone else. You can imagine just how much kit Sky got through in addition to being sponsored. Massive. The profile is now, happily, huge. So they should prosper now.

apprent1ce

The women's Canyon-SRAM team kit is pretty awesome

gabriel959

I remember speaking to someone in the known saying that Rapha had actually been not that profitable and that they weren't making any money. It will be interesting to see how they evolve in the next 12 to 24 month period.

Like others have said, fit is everything. It can be the most amazing garment in the world but if it doesn't fit it doesn't fit.

gweeds

They weren't. Because of the Sky deal mainly. That's gone now and Canyon is a far smaller outlay

gabriel959

Actually this chap was referring to Rapha since inception and before the Sky deal too. Hopefully the gamble has paid of for them.

flasher

I don't think Mr Mottram will be in the poor house anytime soon.

http://road.cc/content/news/169832-raph ... es-nearly-£40-million…-profits-fall-165-cent

antfly

I don't think much of the oft-mentioned Rapha repair service, I had a long sleeved sportwool jersey and it was laddering where the pockets were attached so I sent it for repair expecting it to come back stitched up and as good as new. I got it back about a month later with bloody great patches above the pockets ... I was gutted, it was ruined.