TdF 2016 Stage 15 *Contains spoilers*
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DeadCalm wrote:
Very, very sad news indeed. Condolences to her family and friends.Salsiccia1 wrote:RichN95 wrote:
Turns out that it's really bad. His mother has been killed after being hit by a car riding her bike.pottssteve wrote:yourpaceormine wrote:Ou est Monsieur Boardman?
Family issue, I think.
Holy crap
His written tribute to her posted on his Twitter is very moving. Laugh out loud funny which makes it all the sadder.Correlation is not causation.0 -
Sad to hear about Boardman's mum.0 -
I agree that teams are too big - makes it too easy to control the race - maybe reduce them to 7 for starters and see how that goes. I'd also bin the radios and power meters and lose the time trials as in recent years all they've done is reinforce the dominance of the guy who was leading the race anyway, plus they are awful to watch.[Castle Donington Ladies FC - going up in '22]0
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It really was a dull stage but I genuinely don't think you can blame Sky for that, today was the first time others had as many riders left as Sky. Froome was down to two domestiques by the final climb and Poels rode most of the climb on the front. There was opportunity to attack and no-one did (hardly anyone even tried). Sure, Sky have a strong team but all the main mountain domestiques rode elsewhere previously without being hugely dominant. I don't see that cutting team size would help that much either.
I thought there was a chance for Yates to get breathing space over Quintana but he just stayed sat at the back of the yellow jersey group.
Good win for Pantano though, really pleased for him. Majka thought he could make him panic into opening the sprint early but he held his nerve and it was Majka who went to soon in the end.0 -
In celebration of Today's winner, remembering the Alcaris...
Proper Dutchman.Correlation is not causation.0 -
That's really sad news. It must be devastating to lose his mum in a cycling accident when his life has revolved around the bike.0
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and lately cycling safetyinseine wrote:That's really sad news. It must be devastating to lose his mum in a cycling accident when his life has revolved around the bike.“New York has the haircuts, London has the trousers, but Belfast has the reason!0 -
It's up to Porte to make a race of this.
Yates and Mollema would happily stop the race tonight and take what they have.“New York has the haircuts, London has the trousers, but Belfast has the reason!0 -
Cutting teams will only reduce the ability to shut down breakaways (and if every stage ends in a successful breakaway then it'll swiftly get boring) - Sky are currently getting to the last climb with four or five men against teams with four or five, and not exactly struggling.
My big concern with smaller teams is that teams will each focus on just one thing plus the support riders. Forget about taking a sprinter who can freelance some sort of finish (Cavendish at Sky, for example) on the off chance they pick up a couple of stages.0 -
Much wailing and gnashing of teeth from various quarters over "incredible" Poels on the last climb.
A little reminder of possibly the last time the LBL winner climbed the Lacets du Grand Colombier:-
http://www.procyclingstats.com/race/Tou ... e_5_Belley"Science is a tool for cheaters". An anonymous French PE teacher.0 -
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cant see the video . says private.greasedscotsman wrote:0 -
I got Wyoming bouldering but appeared to feature two half naked young men in cowboy hats. You don't come across that bouldering at Brimham.0
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tim000 wrote:
cant see the video . says private.greasedscotsman wrote:
Oops...
https://youtu.be/yUKEdrt5I2g0 -
underlayunderlay wrote:Cutting teams will only reduce the ability to shut down breakaways (and if every stage ends in a successful breakaway then it'll swiftly get boring) - Sky are currently getting to the last climb with four or five men against teams with four or five, and not exactly struggling.
My big concern with smaller teams is that teams will each focus on just one thing plus the support riders. Forget about taking a sprinter who can freelance some sort of finish (Cavendish at Sky, for example) on the off chance they pick up a couple of stages.
Alternatively the breaks may not be allowed to go in the first place which would be even more dull.0 -
Pross wrote:It really was a dull stage but I genuinely don't think you can blame Sky for that, today was the first time others had as many riders left as Sky. Froome was down to two domestiques by the final climb and Poels rode most of the climb on the front. There was opportunity to attack and no-one did (hardly anyone even tried). Sure, Sky have a strong team but all the main mountain domestiques rode elsewhere previously without being hugely dominant. I don't see that cutting team size would help that much either.
I thought there was a chance for Yates to get breathing space over Quintana but he just stayed sat at the back of the yellow jersey group.
Good win for Pantano though, really pleased for him. Majka thought he could make him panic into opening the sprint early but he held his nerve and it was Majka who went to soon in the end.
Well you say nobody attacked but I could have sworn I saw Aru, Valverde and Bardet attack. Sky had too much strength - I don't see how you can argue differently when 3 GC riders attacked and Froome didn't even have to respond and his last domestique didn't have to respond either !
Cutting the team sizes would have an affect on this because they'd have less men to control the race - they would need to choose between using up riders to control the break early on or keeping them for the finale. You may have wanted to see Yates attack but you argue against reducing team sizes - Yates is not going to attack so long as Sky have two men left in front of Froome bringing back anything that goes off the front.[Castle Donington Ladies FC - going up in '22]0 -
Being a tit?greasedscotsman wrote:0 -
DeVlaeminck wrote:Pross wrote:It really was a dull stage but I genuinely don't think you can blame Sky for that, today was the first time others had as many riders left as Sky. Froome was down to two domestiques by the final climb and Poels rode most of the climb on the front. There was opportunity to attack and no-one did (hardly anyone even tried). Sure, Sky have a strong team but all the main mountain domestiques rode elsewhere previously without being hugely dominant. I don't see that cutting team size would help that much either.
I thought there was a chance for Yates to get breathing space over Quintana but he just stayed sat at the back of the yellow jersey group.
Good win for Pantano though, really pleased for him. Majka thought he could make him panic into opening the sprint early but he held his nerve and it was Majka who went to soon in the end.
Well you say nobody attacked but I could have sworn I saw Aru, Valverde and Bardet attack. Sky had too much strength - I don't see how you can argue differently when 3 GC riders attacked and Froome didn't even have to respond and his last domestique didn't have to respond either !
Cutting the team sizes would have an affect on this because they'd have less men to control the race - they would need to choose between using up riders to control the break early on or keeping them for the finale. You may have wanted to see Yates attack but you argue against reducing team sizes - Yates is not going to attack so long as Sky have two men left in front of Froome bringing back anything that goes off the front.
But Yates is being protected in the early parts of a stage by his teammates too; it'd be easier for Sky to burn off four or six of Yates' team than eight, and then he's left facing Froome + AN Other on his lonesome for an even longer distance. And in any event today you had Orica alert in case Meitnjes went and BMC all over the front, whilst Sky hid in the middle of the pack - Sky would have had fresher legs and an even bigger advantage on today's stage if they;d had fewer riders as they'd done absolutely nothing for the first thirty km.0 -
I fully think a salary cap would be great in cycling. Paying team leaders to be in a mountain train (in any team) can't be sustainable for entertainment
A draft system, where the best U23 riders at the World Championships are selected by teams, in reverse order from the World Tour rankings, might be good too0 -
It's the pathetic parcours which is to blame for boring stages. What's the point of making the riders covers 200km+ over six categorised climbs and then finishing with 14km of downhill and flat? Just who from the GC contenders is going to risk going for it on the last climb and then getting pulled back over the descent and run to the finish?
The Vuelta is much more exciting because they generally have a bias in favour of uphill finishes which means that people like Purito, Valverde, Contador and even Froome can go for the win and gain time over GC rivals. How many times have we seen Froome blitz early uphill finishes to dominate the race? If there were more uphill finishes spread out through the Tour then it would give more scope for others to attack.
EDIT: I think the organisers deliberately set up these sort of stages to give non-GC breakaway type riders like Pantano the chance to win a stage. If the GC teams don't want to fight it out then that's down to them.0 -
underlayunderlay wrote:But Yates is being protected in the early parts of a stage by his teammates too; it'd be easier for Sky to burn off four or six of Yates' team than eight, and then he's left facing Froome + AN Other on his lonesome for an even longer distance. And in any event today you had Orica alert in case Meitnjes went and BMC all over the front, whilst Sky hid in the middle of the pack - Sky would have had fresher legs and an even bigger advantage on today's stage if they;d had fewer riders as they'd done absolutely nothing for the first thirty km.
If Sky had fewer riders they couldn't sit on the front of the bunch for as long - simple as that. Smaller teams makes it harder for one team to control the race.
Your argument seems to be that all teams are the same size and reducing that size to say 7 riders makes no odds because it's the same for all - that misses the point because Orica aren't trying to control the race - a bigger team is far more useful in controlling than in attacking therefore larger teams make the race more controlled - more controlled means less exciting.[Castle Donington Ladies FC - going up in '22]0 -
hypster wrote:It's the pathetic parcours which is to blame for boring stages. What's the point of making the riders covers 200km+ over six categorised climbs and then finishing with 14km of downhill and flat? Just who from the GC contenders is going to risk going for it on the last climb and then getting pulled back over the descent and run to the finish?
The Vuelta is much more exciting because they generally have a bias in favour of uphill finishes which means that people like Purito, Valverde, Contador and even Froome can go for the win and gain time over GC rivals. How many times have we seen Froome blitz early uphill finishes to dominate the race? If there were more uphill finishes spread out through the Tour then it would give more scope for others to attack.
EDIT: I think the organisers deliberately set up these sort of stages to give non-GC breakaway type riders like Pantano the chance to win a stage. If the GC teams don't want to fight it out then that's down to them.
Loads of uphill finishes would make it more boring as Froome would have about 10 minutes by now. Make them race it's not a contest to see who has the best power to weight.[Castle Donington Ladies FC - going up in '22]0 -
TakeTheHighRoad wrote:I fully think a salary cap would be great in cycling. Paying team leaders to be in a mountain train (in any team) can't be sustainable for entertainment
A draft system, where the best U23 riders at the World Championships are selected by teams, in reverse order from the World Tour rankings, might be good too
Agree but it's probably against EU law[Castle Donington Ladies FC - going up in '22]0 -
go into the past and read about how Merckx was strangling the races with his domination. Hinault/Anquetil even Armstrong controlled the races. It's up to others to work together (or not) or take the race to Sky but Froome has created or snatched opportunities right in front of them. Quintana got caught out by crosswinds in 2015 and does exactly the same again this year :roll: Froome attacks downhill and everyone looks at each other whilst he gains seconds. This isn't about power meters it's about taking the race to him - the road is running out but as has already been mentioned Mollema/Yates would gladly settle for 2&3 right now and would/will work together to keep those spots. Quintana is going to find himself up against 3 riders not one.0
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Some good stories from Groenewegen who is learning a lot from Cav......in the bus.
Aparrarently Cav get's 'stung by wasps' on a regular basis, almost 3-4 times a stage...always uphill. So that means a trip to the Drs car
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For that to happen the teams would have to become franchises of the World Tour paid predominantly from a central mutual pot. In itself not a bad idea, but unacceptable to ASO.TakeTheHighRoad wrote:I fully think a salary cap would be great in cycling. Paying team leaders to be in a mountain train (in any team) can't be sustainable for entertainment
A draft system, where the best U23 riders at the World Championships are selected by teams, in reverse order from the World Tour rankings, might be good too
While teams are responsible for attracting their own funds a cap is not really just.Twitter: @RichN950 -
Simple metric for guessing whether a stage is likely to be epically interesting or not:
1: Is it a mountain stage that everyone is hyping up as the toughest stage yet in the tour / toughest of the tour / one you really have to see / GC showdown scheduled for a Sunday afternoon? If yes, go to 3, otherwise goto 2
2: is it a boring flat stage that will inevitably be won by a bunch sprint so you'll only tune in with about twenty minutes to go? If yes and it's windy, go to 4, otherwise 3:
3: It'll be boring as hell, or at least fail totally to live up to your fevered imagination - or worse, exceed your wildest fears in its sheer mind-numbing tedium. Spend the time working out what your angle will be when you come to whinge about it later.
4: It'll be the best day of the tour bar none, and you'll have missed the whole damn thing. Quickly crib up on the highlights and hope nobody picks you up on tiny detail concerning something that ITV inexplicably missed out of their package.0 -
How many teams are actually trying to challenge Sky? Not many.
Movistar, BMC, Astana, Tinkoff. Maybe Trek.
That's it. The others are just hoping their GC guy has a good high placed finish. Sky commit to the GC exclusively.
The issue is that the competition aren't really competing so there is only really going to be one result.
It's a bit like sprinting back in the HTC days. They were winning a game no-one else is playing.0 -
