stage 11 ** spoilers**(my privilege)

Pross

Turfle wrote:

In fact, shame on Sagan for not letting Geraint Thomas win.

Was my thought too. All four riders rode at their limit but without Froome and G's input there have been no opportunity to 'gift' anything. It just wasn't a gifting stage unfortunately, had a larger gap been sustained there may have been an opportunity to allow Bodnar and G to fight for the stage. I'm surprised that anyone thinks they could have reasonably discussed the intricacies of who was going to win while riding balls out to hold the peloton at bay.

Very good stage and answered the idiot who was suggesting G shouldn't be in the Sky team. I think it should also lay to rest the trolls who go on about Sky and Froome being boring. I've never really warmed to Froome but he can certainly race, he has acquired the tactical ability to go with his physical capability. On the evidence I'll have to rethink my assertion that he won't win the Olympic Road Race. I think what today showed is a GC contender's team needs those Classic contender type riders as workhorses. I'm also not convinced that Froome burnt much more than Quintana, sure he worked flat out but Nairo seemed to be battling to stay in the front group for a good while and probably used a lot of nervous energy as well.

Hopefully a few of the mountain stages will match up to today's excitement.

timoid.

underlayunderlay wrote:

Think that finish was a bit of a prisoners dilemma situation - Froome had to sprint for second, which forced Sagan to sprint for the win. Don't think there was anything unfair about it, personally - it's just racing and Bodnar didn't seem too unhappy in his initial reaction.

This ^

blazing_saddles

Rick Chasey wrote:

Also arguably Froome also spends more energy being attentive at the front, and that can show come week 3.

Well, David Millar would argue with you that's for sure.

On the plus side re Ventoux. With the wind direction staying where it is, instead of shifting to the North as had been forecast, it does mean same again tomorrow.
Crosswinds galore.

ozzzyosborn206

Pross wrote:

Turfle wrote:

In fact, shame on Sagan for not letting Geraint Thomas win.

Was my thought too. All four riders rode at their limit but without Froome and G's input there have been no opportunity to 'gift' anything. It just wasn't a gifting stage unfortunately, had a larger gap been sustained there may have been an opportunity to allow Bodnar and G to fight for the stage. I'm surprised that anyone thinks they could have reasonably discussed the intricacies of who was going to win while riding balls out to hold the peloton at bay.

Very good stage and answered the idiot who was suggesting G shouldn't be in the Sky team. I think it should also lay to rest the trolls who go on about Sky and Froome being boring. I've never really warmed to Froome but he can certainly race, he has acquired the tactical ability to go with his physical capability. On the evidence I'll have to rethink my assertion that he won't win the Olympic Road Race. I think what today showed is a GC contender's team needs those Classic contender type riders as workhorses. I'm also not convinced that Froome burnt much more than Quintana, sure he worked flat out but Nairo seemed to be battling to stay in the front group for a good while and probably used a lot of nervous energy as well.

Hopefully a few of the mountain stages will match up to today's excitement.

forget about the matches burnt etc and think of the morale boost froome and sky will have compared to the knock the others will have having lost time on froome in two stages that they would never have even considered a stage to lose time on

Shadowrider

It's amazing people are going on about Froome being in Yellow will make the race boring, but Quintana has done nothing. He's probably the most boring GC guy around, other than the standard final week attack to a team mate.

Has Quintana ever actually went solo and not attacked onto a team mate in the tour? On the Alpe in 13? Even then he was with J rod.

The most exciting thing he does is when he shows how tactically amateur he is. Is it 3 tours he's missed a split with bad weather?

Pross

Yep, the psychology of things can play a huge part. Quintana has probably been psyching himself to go with Froome's first big mountain attack and finds himself 35" down without losing time on a MTF in a Tour with no time trials to date.

RichN95.

Pross wrote:

Yep, the psychology of things can play a huge part. Quintana has probably been psyching himself to go with Froome's first big mountain attack and finds himself 35" down without losing time on a MTF in a Tour with no time trials to date.

Also the teams. Froome with complete confidence in his, Quintana finding his missing at key times.

ocdupalais

I see what happened - On exiting the Tour, Bertie handed Froome his bag of panache sprinkled cojones and said he could take them with one proviso: "next year, Trek desperately want to finally win the Tour legit: you leave it for me and you try Giro-Vuelta double, no?"...

Lanterne_Rogue

RichN95 wrote:

Pross wrote:

Yep, the psychology of things can play a huge part. Quintana has probably been psyching himself to go with Froome's first big mountain attack and finds himself 35" down without losing time on a MTF in a Tour with no time trials to date.

Also the teams. Froome with complete confidence in his, Quintana finding his missing at key times.

I'd be interested to know whether any of that difference comes from Froome and Quintana themselves. Froome gives the impression that he's quite happy being the leader and making tactical decisions, whereas Quintana seems a bit less assertive. Perhaps he's one of those riders that needs a decent road captain to make those calls?

Incidentally, even if Froome blows up in this Tour because of wasting energy on five-second time gaps, I'll defend the decision to do so. Part of me wonders if it's partly a defensive tactic anyway, to take time he expects to lose elsewhere, but even if it isn't I have a lot of respect for someone who just goes out there determined to race. He seems to be having fun doing it, and even Sagan seems to be amused by it. There are worse ways to lose a tour.

rick_chasey

RichN95 wrote:

Pross wrote:

Yep, the psychology of things can play a huge part. Quintana has probably been psyching himself to go with Froome's first big mountain attack and finds himself 35" down without losing time on a MTF in a Tour with no time trials to date.

Also the teams. Froome with complete confidence in his, Quintana finding his missing at key times.

Sky in best team by miles shocker.

briantrumpet

Blazing Saddles wrote:

On the plus side re Ventoux. With the wind direction staying where it is, instead of shifting to the North as had been forecast, it does mean same again tomorrow.
Crosswinds galore.

Hmm, certainly some challenging winds in the next two or three days, as they head north.

salsiccia1

underlayunderlay wrote:

Incidentally, even if Froome blows up in this Tour because of wasting energy on five-second time gaps, I'll defend the decision to do so. Part of me wonders if it's partly a defensive tactic anyway, to take time he expects to lose elsewhere, but even if it isn't I have a lot of respect for someone who just goes out there determined to race. He seems to be having fun doing it, and even Sagan seems to be amused by it. There are worse ways to lose a tour.

It's what we've wanted - panache. Froome and Sagan are giving it large, and it's brilliant.

Lanterne_Rogue

Rick Chasey wrote:

RichN95 wrote:

Pross wrote:

Yep, the psychology of things can play a huge part. Quintana has probably been psyching himself to go with Froome's first big mountain attack and finds himself 35" down without losing time on a MTF in a Tour with no time trials to date.

Also the teams. Froome with complete confidence in his, Quintana finding his missing at key times.

Sky in best team by miles shocker.

It feels like the nature of that team has changed though. They're still obviously a collection of riders who would be extremely welcome elsewhere, but they've raced a lot together and more than a few of them have shown a decent tactical head to go alongside the physical fitness. A few years ago Sky came across as a prescriptive team - ride to the model and you'll probably win. It wasn't especially proactive = they simply seemed to ignore the rest of the race rather than trying to shape it as such (and yeah, sure, I'm probably swallowing the propaganda here, but hey). Now they seem to be both pro- and re-active - stirring it up (Henao attacking) and taking opportunities (Froome, twice). What's particularly obvious is that they're not waiting for the radio to tell them what to do.

Omar Little

The Majka crash features on the OBE backstage pass https://youtu.be/OKJyywOCfI8?t=3m21s Looks like slammed on his front brake midair after going over a speedbump

pinno

Let's hope they don't shorten the Ventoux stage tomorrow. It's been an interesting tour so far. Crazy day today and chapeau to Froome, Sagan et al. How many times do you see a GT leader on a reasonably benign day (providing your not silly enough to be caught in an echelon) riding from the pack?

Anonymous

RichN95 wrote:

Pross wrote:

Yep, the psychology of things can play a huge part. Quintana has probably been psyching himself to go with Froome's first big mountain attack and finds himself 35" down without losing time on a MTF in a Tour with no time trials to date.

Also the teams. Froome with complete confidence in his, Quintana finding his missing at key times.

I think Quintana has begun to realised just how one dimensional he is. Froome can climb, sprint, descend and time trial. His body shape allows him to utilise his power in more than one way. Quintana has been one of the best climbers in recent years if not the best but he is small and very light. He can't produce the big big watts and he knows it. Froome is using every weapon he has to show he is always going to out gun Quintana on on the stages that don't suite his style.

Lanterne_Rogue

Omar Little wrote:

The Majka crash features on the OBE backstage pass https://youtu.be/OKJyywOCfI8?t=3m21s Looks like slammed on his front brake midair after going over a speedbump

Thanks for posting that link - really good insight into the stage. Looked to me like Majka landed with his front wheel right on the downsjope of the speedbump and with the rear still in the air. At that speed and without any traction in the rear, any cross angle will tend to tilt the bike over and cause a spill as there's nothing to stop the fishtail. Deeply unlucky rather than any handling mistake.

RichN95.

Pinno wrote:

Let's hope they don't shorten the Ventoux stage tomorrow. It's been an interesting tour so far. Crazy day today and chapeau to Froome, Sagan et al. How many times do you see a GT leader on a reasonably benign day (providing your not silly enough to be caught in an echelon) riding from the pack?

Sorry to disappoint you, but the decision is already made. Shortened climb of Ventoux finishing at Chalet Regard. Still a major climb though.

pinno

It's odd that Quintana is hailed and with a team around him for that purpose, as a major GT (TdF) contender. He's not the best time trialist and he is for all intents and purposes, a pure climber.
Pure climbers can win the Giro but the last pure climber to win the TdF was Pantani (in a much reduced peloton) and prior to that, Pedro Delgado. Pure climbers rarely win the TdF.

yourpaceormine

Above The Cows wrote:

Were Canonndale Drapac taking part today? This is the only picture of one of their riders in action I've seen

Anonymous

Pinno wrote:

It's odd that Quintana is hailed and with a team around him for that purpose, as a major GT (TdF) contender. He's not the best time trialist and he is for all intents and purposes, a pure climber.
Pure climbers can win the Giro but the last pure climber to win the TdF was Pantani (in a much reduced peloton) and prior to that, Pedro Delgado. Pure climbers rarely win the TdF.

In his early victories im sure Contador was considered a more climbing specialist and Carlos Sastre was too probably more so. But you are right in thatvthe TdF requires a more rounded rider than just a climber. I think this is more in recent years because of the technology in bikes has made the difference between sprinters climbers and individual stage specialists a lot wider. A decade ago everyone was one pretty much the same bike regardless of riding style. Now a sprinter will be on an aero bike a climber on a megalight climbing bike. Its no longer a case of the climbers riding off over the horizon leaving the rest behind and hiding in the peloton on the flat stages. Riders like cummins sagan and Dumoulin are blurring the lines between the different styles and goals on each stage.

Moontrane

Shadowrider wrote:

It's amazing people are going on about Froome being in Yellow will make the race boring, but Quintana has done nothing. He's probably the most boring GC guy around, other than the standard final week attack to a team mate.

Has Quintana ever actually went solo and not attacked onto a team mate in the tour? On the Alpe in 13? Even then he was with J rod.

The most exciting thing he does is when he shows how tactically amateur he is. Is it 3 tours he's missed a split with bad weather?

Quintana took off early on Ventoux in 2013. Froome caught up with about 6km to go.

Moontrane

ozzzyosborn206 wrote:

Pross wrote:

Turfle wrote:

In fact, shame on Sagan for not letting Geraint Thomas win.

Was my thought too. All four riders rode at their limit but without Froome and G's input there have been no opportunity to 'gift' anything. It just wasn't a gifting stage unfortunately, had a larger gap been sustained there may have been an opportunity to allow Bodnar and G to fight for the stage. I'm surprised that anyone thinks they could have reasonably discussed the intricacies of who was going to win while riding balls out to hold the peloton at bay.

Very good stage and answered the idiot who was suggesting G shouldn't be in the Sky team. I think it should also lay to rest the trolls who go on about Sky and Froome being boring. I've never really warmed to Froome but he can certainly race, he has acquired the tactical ability to go with his physical capability. On the evidence I'll have to rethink my assertion that he won't win the Olympic Road Race. I think what today showed is a GC contender's team needs those Classic contender type riders as workhorses. I'm also not convinced that Froome burnt much more than Quintana, sure he worked flat out but Nairo seemed to be battling to stay in the front group for a good while and probably used a lot of nervous energy as well.

Hopefully a few of the mountain stages will match up to today's excitement.

forget about the matches burnt etc and think of the morale boost froome and sky will have compared to the knock the others will have having lost time on froome in two stages that they would never have even considered a stage to lose time on

This Froome's a bad mutha-
<Shut your mouth!>
But I'm talkin' 'bout Froome!

12 seconds probably won't matter in Paris, but we fans are rewarded nicely by his strategy thus far.

Shadowrider

Sour grapes from a Spanish team who'd have thunk it:

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/quintan ... A+News+%29

DBPDX

Turfle wrote:

And the very idea of Tinkoff riding for Froome at some nebulous time in the future.

Now just imagine Sky signing on Sagan after Tinkoff loses its sponsorship next season :shock:

DeVlaeminck

Pinno wrote:

It's odd that Quintana is hailed and with a team around him for that purpose, as a major GT (TdF) contender. He's not the best time trialist and he is for all intents and purposes, a pure climber.
Pure climbers can win the Giro but the last pure climber to win the TdF was Pantani (in a much reduced peloton) and prior to that, Pedro Delgado. Pure climbers rarely win the TdF.

Disagree - he's a decent TTer and I expect him to put in the strongest challenge to Froome in this Tour.

Froome and Sky are looking good but I don't think Quintana and Movistar have ridden a bad race so far and I'm not convinced they'll be particularly demoralised.

overlord2

DeVlaeminck wrote:

Pinno wrote:

I don't think Quintana and Movistar have ridden a bad race so far and I'm not convinced they'll be particularly demoralised.

I hate to make football analogy here. But they said England wernt playing badly a couple of weeks ago but the writing was on the wall that they'd get stuffed. And stuffed they got.

I doubt Q or movistar will make the podium.

dang100

Pinno wrote:

It's odd that Quintana is hailed and with a team around him for that purpose, as a major GT (TdF) contender. He's not the best time trialist and he is for all intents and purposes, a pure climber.
Pure climbers can win the Giro but the last pure climber to win the TdF was Pantani (in a much reduced peloton) and prior to that, Pedro Delgado. Pure climbers rarely win the TdF.

He's also come second in the tdf twice, so not that odd that he's in contention for the yellow.

Bo Duke

underlayunderlay wrote:

RichN95 wrote:

Pross wrote:

Yep, the psychology of things can play a huge part. Quintana has probably been psyching himself to go with Froome's first big mountain attack and finds himself 35" down without losing time on a MTF in a Tour with no time trials to date.

Also the teams. Froome with complete confidence in his, Quintana finding his missing at key times.

I'd be interested to know whether any of that difference comes from Froome and Quintana themselves. Froome gives the impression that he's quite happy being the leader and making tactical decisions, whereas Quintana seems a bit less assertive. Perhaps he's one of those riders that needs a decent road captain to make those calls?

Incidentally, even if Froome blows up in this Tour because of wasting energy on five-second time gaps, I'll defend the decision to do so. Part of me wonders if it's partly a defensive tactic anyway, to take time he expects to lose elsewhere, but even if it isn't I have a lot of respect for someone who just goes out there determined to race. He seems to be having fun doing it, and even Sagan seems to be amused by it. There are worse ways to lose a tour.

What a crackin' finish, Froome just does what he wants.

Froome has matured fantastically post Wiggo he really is the boss of the peloton and his Sky teammates act with such authority. Quintana appears characterless and his team fail to impose themselves. Quintana doesn't think like Froome, he doesn't spot the opportunities, he doesn't have the courage to stick his neck out, he's not is the same confidence zone that Froome currently is.

Dan Martin seems to have also matured and he's fully confident however he lacks a team.

Advantage Froome for now.

Bring it on today!

gsk82

Froome looks like he's riding with no pressure and just enjoying himself.