stage 11 ** spoilers**(my privilege)
Comments
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That is really not worthy of you. You are better than that. Try and answer the point.Above The Cows wrote:
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DeadCalm wrote:
If he'd stayed on Bodnar's wheel with Sagan soft-pedalling to allow his team mate the win he could easily have got second. And the difference between second and third is 2 seconds. Do you really think those 2 potential seconds lost is worth it? Bear in mind that it''s not just Sagan and Bodnar. The whole peloton will have seen that. How soon before he is in a situation where he's away with someone who he wants to work with him who says "hang on, I saw what you did with Bodnar. I'm not going to cooperate with you"?Above The Cows wrote:DeadCalm wrote:Froome wasn't riding to keep the gap as big as possible. He was sitting in on the wheel, waiting to launch a sprint and was made to look silly when Sagan almost apologetically came past him without any effort at all. If he'd have sat on Bodnar's wheel he'd have been in exactly the same situation as he is tonight except he'd have made a new friend in the peloton. The best that can be said about what he did was that it was stupidly naive.
Are you forgetting that there are bonus seconds? So if he'd say on Bodnar's wheel he wouldn't have been in exactly the same situation.
Why exactly shouldn't he try to get 1st place?0 -
DeadCalm wrote:
That is really not worthy of you. You are better than that. Try and answer the point.Above The Cows wrote:
I don't see a point just a load of suppositions.Correlation is not causation.0 -
Oh and to clarify, I'm not a fan of Froome but I certainly don't hate him. I'll criticise many different riders and teams when I see fit. Movistar and BMC in recent days. But it's only when I criticise a British rider that there is ever any reaction.0
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Sagan was talking to Frome for a while during his warm down. Would be interesting what about, it didn't look heated.0
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Because he was never going to get 1st place? And because it would be counter-productive in the medium to long term.Turfle wrote:DeadCalm wrote:
If he'd stayed on Bodnar's wheel with Sagan soft-pedalling to allow his team mate the win he could easily have got second. And the difference between second and third is 2 seconds. Do you really think those 2 potential seconds lost is worth it? Bear in mind that it''s not just Sagan and Bodnar. The whole peloton will have seen that. How soon before he is in a situation where he's away with someone who he wants to work with him who says "hang on, I saw what you did with Bodnar. I'm not going to cooperate with you"?Above The Cows wrote:DeadCalm wrote:Froome wasn't riding to keep the gap as big as possible. He was sitting in on the wheel, waiting to launch a sprint and was made to look silly when Sagan almost apologetically came past him without any effort at all. If he'd have sat on Bodnar's wheel he'd have been in exactly the same situation as he is tonight except he'd have made a new friend in the peloton. The best that can be said about what he did was that it was stupidly naive.
Are you forgetting that there are bonus seconds? So if he'd say on Bodnar's wheel he wouldn't have been in exactly the same situation.
Why exactly shouldn't he try to get 1st place?0 -
Peter Sagan found out about the shortened stage to Ventoux in the post-stage press conference.
"It will be six kilometres less? Nice!"0 -
Contador didn't have to gift a stage to Tiralonga in the 2011 Giro*, but the fact he did was a serious help in winning the Vuelta in 2012. Equally he didn't have to gift a stage to Fränk Schleck in 2009 and it didn't really help him win the tour, but he did it to gain time.
Basically, you can ride like Merckx and Valverde, but you don't have to.
* Yes, yes we all know officially he wasn't there.0 -
DeadCalm wrote:
Because he was never going to get 1st place? And because it would be counter-productive in the medium to long term.Turfle wrote:DeadCalm wrote:
If he'd stayed on Bodnar's wheel with Sagan soft-pedalling to allow his team mate the win he could easily have got second. And the difference between second and third is 2 seconds. Do you really think those 2 potential seconds lost is worth it? Bear in mind that it''s not just Sagan and Bodnar. The whole peloton will have seen that. How soon before he is in a situation where he's away with someone who he wants to work with him who says "hang on, I saw what you did with Bodnar. I'm not going to cooperate with you"?Above The Cows wrote:DeadCalm wrote:Froome wasn't riding to keep the gap as big as possible. He was sitting in on the wheel, waiting to launch a sprint and was made to look silly when Sagan almost apologetically came past him without any effort at all. If he'd have sat on Bodnar's wheel he'd have been in exactly the same situation as he is tonight except he'd have made a new friend in the peloton. The best that can be said about what he did was that it was stupidly naive.
Are you forgetting that there are bonus seconds? So if he'd say on Bodnar's wheel he wouldn't have been in exactly the same situation.
Why exactly shouldn't he try to get 1st place?
Because nobody has ever surprised someone in a sprint? Nobody has ever got the jump on someone? Caught them looking the wrong way?
Yellow jersey jumps away from the peloton in crosswinds, gets himself across to Peter Sagan one of the best riders in the world, rider his heart out to get a gap on all his rivals, and then shouldn't sprint for the win. Seriously.0 -
The point is that, in my opinion, Froome made a mistake sprinting for the win when all he stood to potentially gain was two measly seconds but which, in my opinion, will cost him more in the long run. I appreciate that having any sort of negative opinion on this forum concerning a Brit, even a plastic Brit, immediately condemns me to the status of hater but what can I do? It is my genuinely held opinion.Above The Cows wrote:DeadCalm wrote:
That is really not worthy of you. You are better than that. Try and answer the point.Above The Cows wrote:
I don't see a point just a load of suppositions.0 -
Yes. Seriously. In my opinion.Turfle wrote:DeadCalm wrote:
Because he was never going to get 1st place? And because it would be counter-productive in the medium to long term.Turfle wrote:DeadCalm wrote:
If he'd stayed on Bodnar's wheel with Sagan soft-pedalling to allow his team mate the win he could easily have got second. And the difference between second and third is 2 seconds. Do you really think those 2 potential seconds lost is worth it? Bear in mind that it''s not just Sagan and Bodnar. The whole peloton will have seen that. How soon before he is in a situation where he's away with someone who he wants to work with him who says "hang on, I saw what you did with Bodnar. I'm not going to cooperate with you"?Above The Cows wrote:DeadCalm wrote:Froome wasn't riding to keep the gap as big as possible. He was sitting in on the wheel, waiting to launch a sprint and was made to look silly when Sagan almost apologetically came past him without any effort at all. If he'd have sat on Bodnar's wheel he'd have been in exactly the same situation as he is tonight except he'd have made a new friend in the peloton. The best that can be said about what he did was that it was stupidly naive.
Are you forgetting that there are bonus seconds? So if he'd say on Bodnar's wheel he wouldn't have been in exactly the same situation.
Why exactly shouldn't he try to get 1st place?
Because nobody has ever surprised someone in a sprint? Nobody has ever got the jump on someone? Caught them looking the wrong way?
Yellow jersey jumps away from the peloton in crosswinds, gets himself across to Peter Sagan one of the best riders in the world, rider his heart out to get a gap on all his rivals, and then shouldn't sprint for the win. Seriously.0 -
D Martin, Kittel and Greipel all complaining about the parcours on Twitter
Dan Martin @DanMartin86 · 13m13 minutes ago
Thankyou @LeTour for showing us the regions villages and their road furniture.Testament to riders skill there wasn't more crashes #dangerous“New York has the haircuts, London has the trousers, but Belfast has the reason!0 -
DeadCalm wrote:
Yes. Seriously. In my opinion.Turfle wrote:DeadCalm wrote:
Because he was never going to get 1st place? And because it would be counter-productive in the medium to long term.Turfle wrote:DeadCalm wrote:
If he'd stayed on Bodnar's wheel with Sagan soft-pedalling to allow his team mate the win he could easily have got second. And the difference between second and third is 2 seconds. Do you really think those 2 potential seconds lost is worth it? Bear in mind that it''s not just Sagan and Bodnar. The whole peloton will have seen that. How soon before he is in a situation where he's away with someone who he wants to work with him who says "hang on, I saw what you did with Bodnar. I'm not going to cooperate with you"?Above The Cows wrote:DeadCalm wrote:Froome wasn't riding to keep the gap as big as possible. He was sitting in on the wheel, waiting to launch a sprint and was made to look silly when Sagan almost apologetically came past him without any effort at all. If he'd have sat on Bodnar's wheel he'd have been in exactly the same situation as he is tonight except he'd have made a new friend in the peloton. The best that can be said about what he did was that it was stupidly naive.
Are you forgetting that there are bonus seconds? So if he'd say on Bodnar's wheel he wouldn't have been in exactly the same situation.
Why exactly shouldn't he try to get 1st place?
Because nobody has ever surprised someone in a sprint? Nobody has ever got the jump on someone? Caught them looking the wrong way?
Yellow jersey jumps away from the peloton in crosswinds, gets himself across to Peter Sagan one of the best riders in the world, rider his heart out to get a gap on all his rivals, and then shouldn't sprint for the win. Seriously.
Your opinion that he shouldn't try and win is quite clearly based on nothing but a dislike of Froome.0 -
DeadCalm wrote:
Because he was never going to get 1st place? And because it would be counter-productive in the medium to long term.Turfle wrote:DeadCalm wrote:
If he'd stayed on Bodnar's wheel with Sagan soft-pedalling to allow his team mate the win he could easily have got second. And the difference between second and third is 2 seconds. Do you really think those 2 potential seconds lost is worth it? Bear in mind that it''s not just Sagan and Bodnar. The whole peloton will have seen that. How soon before he is in a situation where he's away with someone who he wants to work with him who says "hang on, I saw what you did with Bodnar. I'm not going to cooperate with you"?Above The Cows wrote:DeadCalm wrote:Froome wasn't riding to keep the gap as big as possible. He was sitting in on the wheel, waiting to launch a sprint and was made to look silly when Sagan almost apologetically came past him without any effort at all. If he'd have sat on Bodnar's wheel he'd have been in exactly the same situation as he is tonight except he'd have made a new friend in the peloton. The best that can be said about what he did was that it was stupidly naive.
Are you forgetting that there are bonus seconds? So if he'd say on Bodnar's wheel he wouldn't have been in exactly the same situation.
Why exactly shouldn't he try to get 1st place?
I can see your point, buying goodwill is always a smart move if it can be done at very little cost. It depends on the conversation and whether Froome was in on it, but it would have been hard to manufacture the result that would keep everyone happy, especially as the bunch were closing and didn't give time for fannying about trying to arrange it. All things considered I think Froome did what he had to do for him.
It might have been considered the done thing a while ago and whilst it's laudable when it's done now I don't think there's any expectation of it. I don't think Froome is diminished by taking the 'no gifts' approach.It's only a bit of sport, Mun. Relax and enjoy the racing.0 -
In fact, shame on Sagan for not letting Geraint Thomas win.0
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Salsiccia1 wrote:DeadCalm wrote:
Because he was never going to get 1st place? And because it would be counter-productive in the medium to long term.Turfle wrote:DeadCalm wrote:
If he'd stayed on Bodnar's wheel with Sagan soft-pedalling to allow his team mate the win he could easily have got second. And the difference between second and third is 2 seconds. Do you really think those 2 potential seconds lost is worth it? Bear in mind that it''s not just Sagan and Bodnar. The whole peloton will have seen that. How soon before he is in a situation where he's away with someone who he wants to work with him who says "hang on, I saw what you did with Bodnar. I'm not going to cooperate with you"?Above The Cows wrote:DeadCalm wrote:Froome wasn't riding to keep the gap as big as possible. He was sitting in on the wheel, waiting to launch a sprint and was made to look silly when Sagan almost apologetically came past him without any effort at all. If he'd have sat on Bodnar's wheel he'd have been in exactly the same situation as he is tonight except he'd have made a new friend in the peloton. The best that can be said about what he did was that it was stupidly naive.
Are you forgetting that there are bonus seconds? So if he'd say on Bodnar's wheel he wouldn't have been in exactly the same situation.
Why exactly shouldn't he try to get 1st place?
I can see your point, buying goodwill is always a smart move if it can be done at very little cost. It depends on the conversation and whether Froome was in on it, but it would have been hard to manufacture the result that would keep everyone happy, especially as the bunch were closing and didn't give time for fannying about trying to arrange it. All things considered I think Froome did what he had to do for him.
It might have been considered the done thing a while ago and whilst it's laudable when it's done now I don't think there's any expectation of it. I don't think Froome is diminished by taking the 'no gifts' approach.
Gifting wins when sprinters are 5 seconds behind is really not the normal gifting scenario.0 -
Froome is riding for the GC, I doubt he cared much about the stage win. If there had been a lone rider ahead of his group who'd already won the stage, I'm sure you would still have seen him sprinting for the 2nd place bonus and as big a gap to the bunch as possible rather than trundling over with the others. Likewise if that had been someone from a different team instead of Bodnar in there, Froome would still have sprinted against Sagan knowing he would lose because it was the fastest way for him to get over the bloody line.DeadCalm wrote:
The point is that, in my opinion, Froome made a mistake sprinting for the win when all he stood to potentially gain was two measly seconds but which, in my opinion, will cost him more in the long run. I appreciate that having any sort of negative opinion on this forum concerning a Brit, even a plastic Brit, immediately condemns me to the status of hater but what can I do? It is my genuinely held opinion.Above The Cows wrote:DeadCalm wrote:
That is really not worthy of you. You are better than that. Try and answer the point.Above The Cows wrote:
I don't see a point just a load of suppositions.
Maybe people wouldn't react so badly if you picked better reasons to moan about British riders. Throwing in little digs like "plastic Brits" to stir things up probably doesn't help your cause either...0 -
And the very idea of Tinkoff riding for Froome at some nebulous time in the future.0
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Sometimes you just have to kneel down.0 -
The first rule of Chris Froome is that whatever Chris Froome does in a bike race it will be wrong in some way according to people on the internet :roll:0
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Absolutely not! Yes, I dislike Froome. But in my opinion what he did today was not clever. I would have criticised any other rider in the same position, even my favourites. Okay, with the possible exception of JC Peraud who can absolutely do no wrong. I used to love this forum but sadly it has gotten to the stage where no kind of opinion but the accepted anglo-centric narrative can be tolerated anymore.Turfle wrote:DeadCalm wrote:
Yes. Seriously. In my opinion.Turfle wrote:DeadCalm wrote:
Because he was never going to get 1st place? And because it would be counter-productive in the medium to long term.Turfle wrote:DeadCalm wrote:
If he'd stayed on Bodnar's wheel with Sagan soft-pedalling to allow his team mate the win he could easily have got second. And the difference between second and third is 2 seconds. Do you really think those 2 potential seconds lost is worth it? Bear in mind that it''s not just Sagan and Bodnar. The whole peloton will have seen that. How soon before he is in a situation where he's away with someone who he wants to work with him who says "hang on, I saw what you did with Bodnar. I'm not going to cooperate with you"?Above The Cows wrote:DeadCalm wrote:Froome wasn't riding to keep the gap as big as possible. He was sitting in on the wheel, waiting to launch a sprint and was made to look silly when Sagan almost apologetically came past him without any effort at all. If he'd have sat on Bodnar's wheel he'd have been in exactly the same situation as he is tonight except he'd have made a new friend in the peloton. The best that can be said about what he did was that it was stupidly naive.
Are you forgetting that there are bonus seconds? So if he'd say on Bodnar's wheel he wouldn't have been in exactly the same situation.
Why exactly shouldn't he try to get 1st place?
Because nobody has ever surprised someone in a sprint? Nobody has ever got the jump on someone? Caught them looking the wrong way?
Yellow jersey jumps away from the peloton in crosswinds, gets himself across to Peter Sagan one of the best riders in the world, rider his heart out to get a gap on all his rivals, and then shouldn't sprint for the win. Seriously.
Your opinion that he shouldn't try and win is quite clearly based on nothing but a dislike of Froome.0 -
Froome made an amazing effort to get on Sagan's wheel and to continue with the attack showed real panache. The last 100 metres, unfortunately, lacked intelligence in my opinion.r0bh wrote:The first rule of Chris Froome is that whatever Chris Froome does in a bike race it will be wrong in some way according to people on the internet :roll:0 -
DeadCalm wrote:
Froome made an amazing effort to get on Sagan's wheel and to continue with the attack showed real panache. The last 100 metres, unfortunately, lacked intelligence in my opinion.r0bh wrote:The first rule of Chris Froome is that whatever Chris Froome does in a bike race it will be wrong in some way according to people on the internet :roll:
As have your last dozen posts, in my opinion."Science is a tool for cheaters". An anonymous French PE teacher.0 -
I'm not going to respond to this as I'd rather not get a ban.mamil314 wrote:DeadCalm wrote:
Absolutely not! Yes, I dislike Froome. But in my opinion what he did today was not clever. I would have criticised any other rider in the same position, even my favourites. Okay, with the possible exception of JC Peraud who can absolutely do no wrong. I used to love this forum but sadly it has gotten to the stage where no kind of opinion but the accepted anglo-centric narrative can be tolerated anymore.Turfle wrote:DeadCalm wrote:
Yes. Seriously. In my opinion.Turfle wrote:DeadCalm wrote:
Because he was never going to get 1st place? And because it would be counter-productive in the medium to long term.Turfle wrote:DeadCalm wrote:
If he'd stayed on Bodnar's wheel with Sagan soft-pedalling to allow his team mate the win he could easily have got second. And the difference between second and third is 2 seconds. Do you really think those 2 potential seconds lost is worth it? Bear in mind that it''s not just Sagan and Bodnar. The whole peloton will have seen that. How soon before he is in a situation where he's away with someone who he wants to work with him who says "hang on, I saw what you did with Bodnar. I'm not going to cooperate with you"?Above The Cows wrote:DeadCalm wrote:Froome wasn't riding to keep the gap as big as possible. He was sitting in on the wheel, waiting to launch a sprint and was made to look silly when Sagan almost apologetically came past him without any effort at all. If he'd have sat on Bodnar's wheel he'd have been in exactly the same situation as he is tonight except he'd have made a new friend in the peloton. The best that can be said about what he did was that it was stupidly naive.
Are you forgetting that there are bonus seconds? So if he'd say on Bodnar's wheel he wouldn't have been in exactly the same situation.
Why exactly shouldn't he try to get 1st place?
Because nobody has ever surprised someone in a sprint? Nobody has ever got the jump on someone? Caught them looking the wrong way?
Yellow jersey jumps away from the peloton in crosswinds, gets himself across to Peter Sagan one of the best riders in the world, rider his heart out to get a gap on all his rivals, and then shouldn't sprint for the win. Seriously.
Your opinion that he shouldn't try and win is quite clearly based on nothing but a dislike of Froome.
You're like one of those black fellows pulling out racism card when losing a completely unrelated argument.0 -
RichN95 wrote:Even bigger crosswinds expected on the road to Ventoux tomorrow
I noticed that yesterday, too.
But the last time I looked they more of the cross-headwind variety, no?
If so, overall not so good."Science is a tool for cheaters". An anonymous French PE teacher.0 -
I don't see what else Froome was supposed to do in that situation, he always knew he was going to lose in a sprint against Sagan but wanted the bonus seconds for 2nd - that was the only way he was going to get that.
Also he crossed the line looking backwards - the peloton were breathing down their necks and he must have thought they were risking getting caught by dithering (and G was caught after he finished his lead-out).
It never even crossed my mind that they wouldn't sprint for it.0 -
No idea. I just read it on Twitter.Blazing Saddles wrote:RichN95 wrote:Even bigger crosswinds expected on the road to Ventoux tomorrow
I noticed that yesterday, too.
But the last time I looked they more of the cross-headwind variety, no?
If so, overall not so good.Twitter: @RichN950 -
Also I fully understand and appreciate why you might gift a win to someone, and I like seeing it happen - but it's usually in the mountains not on a sprint stage with the peloton that close behind.0
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adr82 wrote:
You can almost feel the effort... I didn't think Thomas was going to make it at first, he did really well to get there!Omar Little wrote:Here is the moment the break was formed https://streamable.com/3132
Think my colleagues were a bit confused, they didn't seem to understand why I was going mental.0
