Violence at Euro 2016

bompington

finchy wrote:

Cheating is rife in so many sports, as is corruption and, in many contact sports, violence

But which contact sports? I haven't heard a lot of violence from rugby or American football fans...

finchy

bompington wrote:

finchy wrote:

Cheating is rife in so many sports, as is corruption and, in many contact sports, violence

But which contact sports? I haven't heard a lot of violence from rugby or American football fans...

I was talking about violence on the field.

finchy

Lookyhere wrote:

finchy wrote:

Capt Slog wrote:

From the videos it's difficult to see who is fighting who. But one thing I'm sure of is that anyone who is throwing anything 30 ft or so at someone else is NOT defending themselves. They might be retaliating or getting even, but if I was under attack I'd be out of there bloody sharpish and legging it back to the hotel (and perhaps thence the airport).

What I wouldn't be doing, is standing there with my shirt off shouting sh1t at the opposition. If you are at a distance and chucking stuff, why the hell would it not be easier to walk away?

Depends on the situation. Ever been surrounded or backed into a corner? I have, and the only thing you can do in that situation (other than get your head kicked in) is to stand and fight. Also, if there's a large crowd, it's best not to have them stampeding and some of the old continental towns have VERY narrow streets (I don't know about Marseille, never having been there).

Having said that, I'd imagine that a lot of the throwing things back at the local French hooligans was more about pride than anything else. Hopefully police forces will be able to get a grip on this situation. With modern surveillance methods and the Internet, at least some thugs should get caught and imprisoned. These pr1cks can't be allowed to take football back to its darkest days.

Fly with the crows... expect to get shot and no sympathy.

ah i see, they are french Hooligans and our fun loving innocent footie fans threw things back at them out of "Pride" ffs.

I think you've taken my comment the wrong way. I don't mean pride in a good way, I'm talking about foolish pride, such as never backing down no matter what the potential consequences.

tangled_metal

Well England played well I thought. I mean in Australia not the euros. I still can't understand why you'd want to watch a game which still has such a level of thuggery from those following it.

Then I admit the game is dull and I can't watch any national game let alone team game for longer than 5 or 10 minutes. The ball moves around a lot but it's just dull. Is that why the fans choose to meet up and have fights? They're just bored of the game and want some excitement to feel alive?

Sorry for this post comparing different sports but IMHO rugby union (and league if you really must) is a sport in another league. You can take your families to a rugby match even internationals in foreign countries without fear. Family entertainment. Why can't football manage that? Is it a problem with the football authorities not wanting to affect the cash cow by confronting it head on? IMHO it needs something truly drastic. Ban teams whose fans bring in fireworks or flares. Perhaps any projectile reaching the pitch or opposition fans and their next so many games is in a stadium without any of their fans just their opposition fans. imagine a whole stadium supporting one team.

I really don't know the solution (or really care) but there needs to be a complete 180 on the culture of football. Let's wait and see what happens but if Russia, England or any other side gets kicked out because of hooliganism among their fans then IMHO that's a small start. Until it becomes a family entertainment, safe for all to enjoy, it's a dirty game in need of change. The football authorities are part of the problem, it needs sorting.

Of course anyone wanting to watch a team sport safely then feel free to watch rugby (any code).

DeVlaeminck

Tangled Metal wrote:

Sorry for this post comparing different sports but IMHO rugby union (and league if you really must) is a sport in another league. You can take your families to a rugby match even internationals in foreign countries without fear. Family entertainment. Why can't football manage that? Is it a problem with the football authorities not wanting to affect the cash cow by confronting it head on? IMHO it needs something truly drastic. Ban teams whose fans bring in fireworks or flares. Perhaps any projectile reaching the pitch or opposition fans and their next so many games is in a stadium without any of their fans just their opposition fans. imagine a whole stadium supporting one team.

I really don't know the solution (or really care) but there needs to be a complete 180 on the culture of football. Let's wait and see what happens but if Russia, England or any other side gets kicked out because of hooliganism among their fans then IMHO that's a small start. Until it becomes a family entertainment, safe for all to enjoy, it's a dirty game in need of change. The football authorities are part of the problem, it needs sorting.

Of course anyone wanting to watch a team sport safely then feel free to watch rugby (any code).

Did you post that from the 1980s? I am occasional watcher of matches involving Derby County - home and away. I now go largely because my daughter wants to but I used to have a season ticket. My lack of enthusiasm for it has nothing to do with safety however. That just isn't an issue any more - not in England at least.

I know one thing - I would far rather either of my daughters attend a football match than a night out where a university rugby club were present - I am basing my experience on 30 years ago but I suspect the only thing that has changed is that they are now on steroids as well as too much alcohol.

jawooga

Tangled Metal wrote:

Of course anyone wanting to watch a team sport safely then feel free to watch rugby (any code).

Well... this doesn't feel like it was that long ago http://www.skysports.com/rugby-league/n ... ddersfield

cornerblock

Rick Chasey wrote:

Cornerblock wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

In fairness, I live within 500m of Stamford Bridge and the fans you see come and go are pretty nasty.

Can't say I'm surprised.

Does put you off.

Fairness? 40,000 people from all walks of life attend Stamford Bridge and you talk of a few as if it's the majority. Are there some morons who attend football? No doubt, but making sweeping statements about a large group of people is the kind of talk I'd expect from those narrow minded types. May I suggest you insert the term 'some fans' the next time to avoid sounding so bigoted.

Well when they stop the bus I'm on, bang on the windows, make Chinese eyes at the Asian lady I'm sitting next to and discuss how they're going to anally rape her mother while I'm trying to make my way home from a lunch out, it does make you think it's probably not the nicest bunch of fans.

Or when a guy in a Chelsea shirt got upset he couldn't park his car somewhere because it blocked the entrance to our street, he pushed my neighbour over and threatened to kick him in the head.

So no, I'm not surprised there's grief.

It's the only sport I know where when they show it in local pubs they need bouncers and they don't let home & away mix.

And it's not like the rest of the fans call them out on it. They just rub shoulders with them and pretend they're not doing it.

So how many are we talking? 10? 20? 21 including the idiot in the car? Still leaves thousands and thousands of decent people attending the same game who don't deserve being denigrated with lazy generalisations. We've all had the misfortune to meet morons, sometimes on a night out, sometimes at football, yes sometimes even at rugby. Do you confront every knobhead you see? I doubt you do. I'll stand by my original point that by not using the word 'some' in describing 40,000 plus people you make yourself sound a bit narrow minded.

Fair enough I get that some people don't like football or the tribal atmosphere it generates. And yes some, that's some, of the people who attend are the type you'd avoid like the plague under normal circumstances. But guess what? There's good and bad everywhere.

jawooga

Sorry to keep posting links - I love lots of sports including rugby - but to those who keep posting negatively about English football fans (yes, we all know there's a minority), where the implication is both on football and the English, it is very easy to find stories such as this one: http://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales ... ns-8599135 - a rugby crowd of predominantly Welsh trouble-makers.

ballysmate

I posted this in the thread in BB

Postby Ballysmate » Fri Jun 10, 2016 12:09 pm

From a purely selfish point of view I hope England go out at the group stages. I fly out on holiday on 20th which is the date of our last group game. Nothing worse than Neanderthal fans crowding into bars and cafes to watch the football, shouting and swearing at the TV, regardless of who is around.
I see there has been trouble in Marseilles already. Well who'd have thunk it? :roll:

Not changed my mind.
Am not even going to France.

zak3737

finchy wrote:

Rugby has its own problems. Doping being the main one.

Hahaha , and if you believe that Football doesnt have any Doping issues, you really are deluded. With the money sloshing around in nothing more than chavvish players playing in the PL, with time on their hands, its probably wayyyyyy bigger than you or I can imagine.

The thing is, largely, the FA dont really care......
Case in Point........my own Home team, Hull City........Jake Livermore gets tested positive for Cocaine, but because the poor lad had some tragic personal issues, they tel him off and he walks back into his fat cat salary and Club.
- like many of us dont have Family Tragedies to deal with, but handle them without drugs.........

Its pathetic.

zak3737

And lkets be honest, the old saying has never been truer.......

'Rugby is a game for thugs played by gentlemen, whereas Football is a game for Gentlemen played by Thugs....."

finchy

Zak3737 wrote:

finchy wrote:

Rugby has its own problems. Doping being the main one.

Hahaha , and if you believe that Football doesnt have any Doping issues, you really are deluded.

Sigh. Did I say that football doesn't have doping issues? No, I didn't.

finchy

Zak3737 wrote:

And lkets be honest, the old saying has never been truer.......

'Rugby is a game for thugs played by gentlemen, whereas Football is a game for Gentlemen played by Thugs....."

And that's a load of crap as well. Some rugby players are thugs. Some are decent human beings. Some football players are thugs. Some are decent human beings. Liking one sport doesn't actually make you a better or worse person than people who like other sports. It just means you have different taste in sport.

gaffer_slow

drlodge wrote:

I took my son to Chelsea a couple of times in a family enclosure and was aghast at the amount of shouting and frankly horrendous language.

are people who use language you disapprove of "so called fans"?

tangled_metal

Family wanted to visit a certain French city since they were in the area. Realised Euro was on and changed their plans. International or European club games is not a good place to be if you're not a football fan or prepared for any trouble that happens.

BTW I tend to suspect that other nations' fans and hooligans aren't in the same place as English fans. I think the reputation of English fans among especially the eastern European fans dates from the 70s/80s. IIRC a few years back Poland played Germany and there was violence issues. Polish hooligans boasted about showing English fans who's the boss (or words with a similar meaning) before a previous euro competition. There's probably many more cases. Perhaps time to get over the British propensity to go overseas, get exceedingly exceedingly drunk and offensive at times. Then accept that despite all this brits and English football fans who have hooliganism tendencies have mostly been.banned from matches and even travel.

Still, even with this I still get the feeling football matches aren't a place to bring your young child. Certainly not the main club and international games. I generally don't see many kids watching football at the premier league level. I think you do see kids at top flight rugby league and union matches though. Perhaps I'm wrong in this view but that's my opinion.

ballysmate

When England get knocked out and fans rampage around English towns and cities, as they have done in the past, who should we blame ?

finchy

Ballysmate wrote:

When England get knocked out and fans rampage around English towns and cities, as they have done in the past, who should we blame ?

If that happens, then blame it on the England fans. Pretty straightforward one I'd say.

tangled_metal

Reminds me of when Blackburn played Burnley in the Burnley ground. When Blackburn won (they were a premiership side and Burnley league one at the time) Burnley fans went on a rampage and tore up their own town. Having lived near Blackburn it only reinforced our views that Burnley people are a bit thick and their football fans even more so. Perhaps unfair but you shouldn't trash your own town surely?!

zak3737

As I said before, nothing about Football makes sense, the money, the cheating, the violence, the corruption.....
and the fighting.

A few years ago, I was invited up to Sunderland to see the England v Slovakia (I think) Euro/World Cup qualifier, (I cant recall). The place was electric for all the wrong reasons, and Police lined the streets, as the Pubs were full of drunk tattoo'd fans with their shirts off, hurling abuse at everyone, and baying for trouble.
Quite literally, it was a tinder box of trouble waiting to happen, and tbh, I left 5mins before the end to get a jump on not only the traffic, but anything else waiting to happen at Full time.

Then, 6 weeks later, I was down at Twickenham to see England v Australia, and again, the Pubs were overflowing with Fans drinking & singing, but this time, they were all together, Aussies and Brits, good banter, and the Police that were present, were leaning against lamposts with their sleeves rolled up, having a laugh with all the fans. No tensions, no hassle, what an atmosphere.

Perhaps its a cultural thing, a 'Class' issue, I dont know. But I maintain, that for me, there is little to admire about Football at all, it's corrupt to the core, its professional players are merely Financial mercenaries these days, waiting for the next contract to come along.

Quite honestly, I'd rather go to the Rugby Club I back onto and pay £10 entry fee to watch them, than go watch Hull City play in the PL next year even if it was Free ......

finchy

^^^I stopped going to watch professional football about 10 years ago, as I thought paying £25-30 to watch 90 minutes of football is appalling value for money, but I still like the game and why should I, or anyone else, be put off the game that I've loved since I was a little boy by thugs? That's giving in, and I'm not the type of person to stop doing something on the off chance that something bad might happen.

As for the money, do you think that rugby wouldn't jump at the chance to have the type of money that football pulls in? Of course the players would love that, and I'm sure they go for every last penny, just like football players. The difference, though, is that top flight rugby in this country tends to pull in similar attendances to 2nd or 3rd tier football, for approximately half the number of matches and with far lower television audiences. Football gets more money because people like it, and not many people are bothered about either code of rugby.

Bo Duke

Whats most worrying about these hyper violent and well organised Russian thugs is that their FA has congratulated them and told them to 'keep going' as also has a Russian MP.

Russia hosts the world cup in 2 years and it's totally unrealistic to think that their isn't going to be a far, far bigger problem come the day of the race. FIFA really have f*cked up in the name of corruption awarding the world cup to such a socially backward regime.

pblakeney

Bo Duke wrote:

Whats most worrying about these hyper violent and well organised Russian thugs is that their FA has congratulated them and told them to 'keep going' as also has a Russian MP.

Russia hosts the world cup in 2 years and it's totally unrealistic to think that their isn't going to be a far, far bigger problem come the day of the race. FIFA really have f*cked up in the name of corruption awarding the world cup to such a socially backward regime.

Place the dignitaries between the fans.
I bet security will be stepped up then.

Ben6899

Zak3737 wrote:

...The place was electric for all the wrong reasons, and Police lined the streets, as the Pubs were full of drunk tattoo'd fans with their shirts off...

You need to watch out for anyone with a tattoo.

Frank the tank

I doubt it, but I wonder if any of this violence has made FIFA consider there options with regard the next world cup in Russia?

Perhaps "Fat Les" had better start putting some training in. Just in case England qualify. :shock:

finchy

Bo Duke wrote:

Whats most worrying about these hyper violent and well organised Russian thugs is that their FA has congratulated them and told them to 'keep going' as also has a Russian MP.

Russia hosts the world cup in 2 years and it's totally unrealistic to think that their isn't going to be a far, far bigger problem come the day of the race. FIFA really have f*cked up in the name of corruption awarding the world cup to such a socially backward regime.

I imagine that a lot of fans will simply not bother going to that one. Either that or they'll spend the next two years in training and we'll have a whole new generation of hooligans who want to take the crown back from the Russians and the Poles. Either way it's a depressing situation.

rick_chasey

Anyone seen the Russian go pro?

finchy

Rick Chasey wrote:

Anyone seen the Russian go pro?

Yes. That bloke is really bad at filming.

It's quite clear from that film, other footage, eyewitness accounts and police reports that this was a highly organised, unprovoked and indiscriminate attack on England fans.

Still, I don't suppose anyone on this forum will being rushing to admit they were wrong...

twist83

I have to say my experiences are similar.

The few Football matches I have been to have an atmosphere for the wrong reasons.

The Rugby games completely different. In fact I remember being in Walkabout in Cardiff watching England play and beat Wales surrounded by Welsh fans and not getting beaten senseless either.

Try that at the Euros or at a large match with any form of Rivalry.

Zak3737 wrote:

As I said before, nothing about Football makes sense, the money, the cheating, the violence, the corruption.....
and the fighting.

A few years ago, I was invited up to Sunderland to see the England v Slovakia (I think) Euro/World Cup qualifier, (I cant recall). The place was electric for all the wrong reasons, and Police lined the streets, as the Pubs were full of drunk tattoo'd fans with their shirts off, hurling abuse at everyone, and baying for trouble.
Quite literally, it was a tinder box of trouble waiting to happen, and tbh, I left 5mins before the end to get a jump on not only the traffic, but anything else waiting to happen at Full time.

Then, 6 weeks later, I was down at Twickenham to see England v Australia, and again, the Pubs were overflowing with Fans drinking & singing, but this time, they were all together, Aussies and Brits, good banter, and the Police that were present, were leaning against lamposts with their sleeves rolled up, having a laugh with all the fans. No tensions, no hassle, what an atmosphere.

Perhaps its a cultural thing, a 'Class' issue, I dont know. But I maintain, that for me, there is little to admire about Football at all, it's corrupt to the core, its professional players are merely Financial mercenaries these days, waiting for the next contract to come along.

Quite honestly, I'd rather go to the Rugby Club I back onto and pay £10 entry fee to watch them, than go watch Hull City play in the PL next year even if it was Free ......

Bo Duke

finchy wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

Anyone seen the Russian go pro?

Yes. That bloke is really bad at filming.

It's quite clear from that film, other footage, eyewitness accounts and police reports that this was a highly organised, unprovoked and indiscriminate attack on England fans.

Still, I don't suppose anyone on this forum will being rushing to admit they were wrong...

What makes these Russians different is they don't drink. British thugs go out, get tanked up then throw drunken swings. These 'hyper violent' Russians (according to the press) go to find targets for their premeditated, viscous violence.
Big difference, thats Evil.

secretsam

My two penn'th:

1. Blaming the Russians doesn't excuse the English fans for their poor behaviour
2. UEFA scheduling a crunch game on a Saturday night in Marseille (of all places) was asinine
3. I wonder how much influence the recent EU referendum and the toxic attitudes and language around immigration, foreigners and Europe in general was a factor

Having been to an England game (vs Germany, c.2008ish), I'd never go again. The atmosphere was more toxic than at any club game I've been to, including matches involving my lot (Bristol City) and Millwall, West Ham, the Gas, etc in the mid-80s and early 90s. The overt xenophobia and racism on display sickened me.