Violence at Euro 2016

debeli

I love to watch football - and have since childhood.

I was of the generation of Londoners who were somehow 'drawn' to Arsenal by the 1970-71 season, despite my not knowing at that age quite what the 'Double' was.

I've followed football (known as soccer to differentiate from rugger in my childhood) ever since.

My elder son shares my affection for AFC and we've been to quite a few matches together... not lately as he is now an adult himself.

So here we are in Euro 2016. I like this England team and quite like the Wales team - there is enough Welsh blood in my family to say that.

I even think England to go a long way in the tournament.

But.... If the team are sanctioned - even removed from the competition - as a result of crowd trouble before, during and after games - I would have no issue with that decision.

I am slightly ashamed to be English when I see, hear and read of these issues. It has (with a few quiet years) ever been so.

Highbury and Stanford Bridge in the 1970s were often quite daunting places on match day.

Football is a beautiful game, but there is thuggery among the fans and if it takes a massive sanction (removal of England) I'd back it. With regret.

Pross

To be fair it sounds like today they were attacked by Russian Ultras and most were trying to escape / defend themselves. That said, if you want to avoid trouble it's probably best to stay away from an area where there has been trouble on the previous 2 days.

DeVlaeminck

I'd be extremely upset if England were kicked out of the tournament for being targeted by French and Russian fans! A friend of mine - retired chap - and his son were set upon by French hooligans while leaving the friendly match with Scotland a few weeks back so I can believe England are more sinned against than sinning.

DeVlaeminck

Russian fans kicking off again after the final whistle - another thing for the English to feel ashamed of ?

Pross

At it in the ground now too. You don't see that very often these days. Hopefully these Russian thugs won't do the same when they meet Wales, I think the supporters just want to enjoy their first experience of tournament football without that crap.

bristolpete

Surely, 'off the field' the whole tournament is a representation of of the global / European issues, smoke screened under the guise of a sporting tournament ? I too enjoy football, but looks like a recipe for disaster give the current climate ? Shame. Crazy times ! I did have a wry smile when I saw the England 'fans' asking for ISIS to come out for a ruck. Perhaps it is the answer. Put down the bombs and guns and have an old fashioned tear up man o man, as they say on Eastenders ?

pblakeney

bristolpete wrote:

Surely, 'off the field' the whole tournament is a representation of of the global / European issues, smoke screened under the guise of a sporting tournament ? I too enjoy football, but looks like a recipe for disaster give the current climate ? Shame. Crazy times ! I did have a wry smile when I saw the England 'fans' asking for ISIS to come out for a ruck. Perhaps it is the answer. Put down the bombs and guns and have an old fashioned tear up man o man, as they say on Eastenders ?

And people wonder why the EU is not 100% harmonious?

bristolpete

PBlakeney wrote:

bristolpete wrote:

Surely, 'off the field' the whole tournament is a representation of of the global / European issues, smoke screened under the guise of a sporting tournament ? I too enjoy football, but looks like a recipe for disaster give the current climate ? Shame. Crazy times ! I did have a wry smile when I saw the England 'fans' asking for ISIS to come out for a ruck. Perhaps it is the answer. Put down the bombs and guns and have an old fashioned tear up man o man, as they say on Eastenders ?

And people wonder why the EU is not 100% harmonious?

I am 100% road. That is all.

You know what I mean, people cannot expect people to mass in one place and there not be trouble due to the current zeitgeist. And I was being ironic about the Eastenders comment, I much prefer Coronation St :shock:

pblakeney

bristolpete wrote:

PBlakeney wrote:

bristolpete wrote:

Surely, 'off the field' the whole tournament is a representation of of the global / European issues, smoke screened under the guise of a sporting tournament ? I too enjoy football, but looks like a recipe for disaster give the current climate ? Shame. Crazy times ! I did have a wry smile when I saw the England 'fans' asking for ISIS to come out for a ruck. Perhaps it is the answer. Put down the bombs and guns and have an old fashioned tear up man o man, as they say on Eastenders ?

And people wonder why the EU is not 100% harmonious?

I am 100% road. That is all.

You know what I mean, people cannot expect people to mass in one place and there not be trouble due to the current zeitgeist.

I'd suggest that it happens all over the World on a regular basis when English "football fans" are not present.

bristolpete

PBlakeney wrote:

bristolpete wrote:

PBlakeney wrote:

bristolpete wrote:

Surely, 'off the field' the whole tournament is a representation of of the global / European issues, smoke screened under the guise of a sporting tournament ? I too enjoy football, but looks like a recipe for disaster give the current climate ? Shame. Crazy times ! I did have a wry smile when I saw the England 'fans' asking for ISIS to come out for a ruck. Perhaps it is the answer. Put down the bombs and guns and have an old fashioned tear up man o man, as they say on Eastenders ?

And people wonder why the EU is not 100% harmonious?

I am 100% road. That is all.

You know what I mean, people cannot expect people to mass in one place and there not be trouble due to the current zeitgeist.

I'd suggest that it happens all over the World on a regular basis when English "football fans" are not present.

Yes, of course, but the blame will be anointed to the English hooligan scum.

bristolpete

Who can remember this ? Another religion based nightmare of epic proportions unfolding.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NnrLuAzUPMs

imposter2.0

bristolpete wrote:

I did have a wry smile when I saw the England 'fans' asking for ISIS to come out for a ruck.

I saw that too. Like ISIS are gonna say "yeah, I'm up for that". If the English 'hard men' fans are really that keen to fight ISIS, then north Africa is only a short boat ride from Marseille...

pinno

Imposter wrote:

bristolpete wrote:

I did have a wry smile when I saw the England 'fans' asking for ISIS to come out for a ruck.

I saw that too. Like ISIS are gonna say "yeah, I'm up for that". If the English 'hard men' fans are really that keen to fight ISIS, then north Africa is only a short boat ride from Marseille...

This.

pblakeney

bristolpete wrote:

PBlakeney wrote:

bristolpete wrote:

PBlakeney wrote:

bristolpete wrote:

Surely, 'off the field' the whole tournament is a representation of of the global / European issues, smoke screened under the guise of a sporting tournament ? I too enjoy football, but looks like a recipe for disaster give the current climate ? Shame. Crazy times ! I did have a wry smile when I saw the England 'fans' asking for ISIS to come out for a ruck. Perhaps it is the answer. Put down the bombs and guns and have an old fashioned tear up man o man, as they say on Eastenders ?

And people wonder why the EU is not 100% harmonious?

I am 100% road. That is all.

You know what I mean, people cannot expect people to mass in one place and there not be trouble due to the current zeitgeist.

I'd suggest that it happens all over the World on a regular basis when English "football fans" are not present.

Yes, of course, but the blame will be anointed to the English hooligan scum.

Ah. You took my point the wrong way.
There are mass meetings Worldwide on a regular basis that do not descend to violence. Whereas every 2 years......

jawooga

Worth listening to the news reports on the radio this morning before being too ashamed of our football supporters. I'm not legitimizing punchy drunk yobs from any country, but there are organised gangs who have gone there tooled up, attacking families having lunch. The police response is to contain everyone and gas them.

I'm inclined to agree with Bristol Pete's assessment that there is widespread malcontent across impoverished groups of people in Europe, and this was always going to happen - nothing to do with football.

I love football, but I would never go to a tournament, let. alone take my family.

ugo.santalucia

Why Marseille? After what happened in 1998, why choosing Marseille again to host England? Learning from past mistakes is such a bad idea? Clearly there was still bad blood in the city and it would have been wiser to go elsewhere

surrey_commuter

jawooga wrote:

Worth listening to the news reports on the radio this morning before being too ashamed of our football supporters. I'm not legitimizing punchy drunk yobs from any country, but there are organised gangs who have gone there tooled up, attacking families having lunch. The police response is to contain everyone and gas them.

I'm inclined to agree with Bristol Pete's assessment that there is widespread malcontent across impoverished groups of people in Europe, and this was always going to happen - nothing to do with football.

I love football, but I would never go to a tournament, let. alone take my family.

Not sure several hundred anti social English yobs being attacked by a couple of hundred Russians and a couple of hundred French yobs means we have discontent across Europe.

You are right that nobody with any understanding of football would have expected anything else. English football fans have been smashing up European cities for 40 years.. Only fair that the locals would meet them with fists, boots, bottles, dogs, batons and tear gas.

jawooga

Surrey Commuter wrote:

jawooga wrote:

Worth listening to the news reports on the radio this morning before being too ashamed of our football supporters. I'm not legitimizing punchy drunk yobs from any country, but there are organised gangs who have gone there tooled up, attacking families having lunch. The police response is to contain everyone and gas them.

I'm inclined to agree with Bristol Pete's assessment that there is widespread malcontent across impoverished groups of people in Europe, and this was always going to happen - nothing to do with football.

I love football, but I would never go to a tournament, let. alone take my family.

Not sure several hundred anti social English yobs being attacked by a couple of hundred Russians and a couple of hundred French yobs means we have discontent across Europe.

You are right that nobody with any understanding of football would have expected anything else. English football fans have been smashing up European cities for 40 years.. Only fair that the locals would meet them with fists, boots, bottles, dogs, batons and tear gas.

First time I've ever needed to do this :roll:

surrey_commuter

jawooga wrote:

Surrey Commuter wrote:

jawooga wrote:

Worth listening to the news reports on the radio this morning before being too ashamed of our football supporters. I'm not legitimizing punchy drunk yobs from any country, but there are organised gangs who have gone there tooled up, attacking families having lunch. The police response is to contain everyone and gas them.

I'm inclined to agree with Bristol Pete's assessment that there is widespread malcontent across impoverished groups of people in Europe, and this was always going to happen - nothing to do with football.

I love football, but I would never go to a tournament, let. alone take my family.

Not sure several hundred anti social English yobs being attacked by a couple of hundred Russians and a couple of hundred French yobs means we have discontent across Europe.

You are right that nobody with any understanding of football would have expected anything else. English football fans have been smashing up European cities for 40 years.. Only fair that the locals would meet them with fists, boots, bottles, dogs, batons and tear gas.

First time I've ever needed to do this :roll:

Fair play - but I have got off scheduled aircraft with my fellow travellers walking down the line of riot police screaming in their faces "we are here now you f'ing c****". If I was them I would have hit every one of us over the head and sent us back.

mamba80

Thugs game, always has been, always will be, shame for the genuine fan but then he/she would be more interested in watching the game than getting hammered, which seems to be the only reason england "fans" go abroad.

i lived in Sweden when the euro's where there, the poor Swedes had no idea what hit them, i was ashamed to be english, their behaviour had to be seen to be believed.

always england fans that get p1ssed up and then claim innocence when it all goes wrong, i d imagine the french are praying for a OUT vote and then then can bar us from all tournaments.

verylonglegs

I was with a mate last night who was in contact with someone who was at the game. He said there were angry Russians in and around the stadium trying to get some trouble going. Yes there are English who aren't strangers to acting like morons, we saw that the previous two evenings, but you anyone who really knows football would also be aware of the violence that can be found around the game in the eastern bloc countries. To assume it's exclusive to England is ignorant.

surrey_commuter

verylonglegs wrote:

I was with a mate last night who was in contact with someone who was at the game. He said there were angry Russians in and around the stadium trying to get some trouble going. Yes there are English who aren't strangers to acting like morons, we saw that the previous two evenings, but you anyone who really knows football would also be aware of the violence that can be found around the game in the eastern bloc countries. To assume it's exclusive to England is ignorant.

Not exclusive to England but they have put a target on their backs with their behaviour over the last 40 years.

2 weeks ago at work we asked a bloke why he was going out to games. He asked why we were asking. Because England fans would set up camp in the main square p1ss in the fountain smash up the bars and the chuck plastic furniture around. He would have the choice of hanging with the mob but might've be smashed up by the police or go it alone and risk being picked off by irate locals.

And have you noticed how the ones beaten up or arrested are always innocent?

MikeBrew

ugo.santalucia wrote:

Why Marseille? After what happened in 1998, why choosing Marseille again to host England? Learning from past mistakes is such a bad idea? Clearly there was still bad blood in the city and it would have been wiser to go elsewhere

You appear to be ignorant of what actually happened in the latest incident under discussion here. Russians attacked English fans. Uefa, seem pretty clear on it, as they are disciplining Russia for "racist behavior". Clearly that has nothing to do with notional historical " bad blood" between English fans and the city of Marseille.
The reality is that football hooliganism is a global problem that occurs anywhere, and not about differences between one particular nation's fans visiting a particular city in another nation.

cc78

l'Equipe's version of events today:

On Thursday & Friday nights, English fans were drinking in the port area, as each evening went on and the level of inebriation increased, as usually happens at these events, certain groups stepped out of line, the atmosphere became more confrontational towards the Police and the mindless scuffles/beer-bottle-throwing/etc took place. Some locals and small numbers of Russians were also involved.

On Saturday, events became a lot more serious with the arrival of several apparently organised gangs of Russians, described as "serious hard-men", some armed with iron bars, who were intent on attacking the English "commando-style". Serious fighting between Russians, English and locals followed throughout the afternoon around the port, and then later in and around the stadium. The police took the decision to close the bars in the port early to limit further trouble after the match.

Note that Russia are playing Slovakia on Wednesday night in Lille. On Thursday, England play Wales just down the road in Lens... good luck with that.

BelgianBeerGeek

Think I read somewhere that the Mayor of Lens has closed all the bars before the England/Wales game. Seems a bit of an over-reaction, but as said we Brits have a terrible reputation abroad for drunken loutish behaviour. And not just sports fans.
What's to stop the match attendees getting lashed up on cheap French supermarket lager first remains to be seen.

Naz90

Same thing to today French/Croats fighting the Turks and Northern Ireland fans got attacked by French fans
So it's not just the English but as said above its payback for the past I don't agree with it and I love football but will never take my kids to a game cause of this

finchy

Surrey Commuter wrote:

Not sure several hundred anti social English yobs being attacked by a couple of hundred Russians and a couple of hundred French yobs means we have discontent across Europe.

Were you there to check that all the England fans who got attacked by Russians and the French were "anti-social yobs" or do you just "know" they're anti-social yobs because they're all football fans or something?

Maybe you could use your magical powers to look at the images below and enlighten us all as to which of the England fans getting kicked and punched by the Russians are anti-social yobs.

phil s

Naz90 wrote:

Same thing to today French/Croats fighting the Turks

I think you'll find some Turkish fans were attacked by PSG ultras. I challenge you to find anything other than photos and videos of the Turks and Croats singing and dancing together before the match.

rick_chasey

Russians trolling Westerners?

Who knew.

awavey

Surrey Commuter wrote:

Not exclusive to England but they have put a target on their backs with their behaviour over the last 40 years.

2 weeks ago at work we asked a bloke why he was going out to games. He asked why we were asking. Because England fans would set up camp in the main square p1ss in the fountain smash up the bars and the chuck plastic furniture around. He would have the choice of hanging with the mob but might've be smashed up by the police or go it alone and risk being picked off by irate locals.

And have you noticed how the ones beaten up or arrested are always innocent?

I dont think its fair to say England fans have a 40 year history of this, we havent seen this kind of hooligan trouble involving England since at least 1998/2000, and England have played all over Europe in qualifiers and tournaments, without any trouble on this scale

so theres definitely always two sides to a story but there seems something very different about this, certainly the Saturday stuff people were being targetted because they were English, not because they were football fans, or causing/instigating trouble themselves, yes when trouble occurs and things escalate there will always be groups who cant help themselves getting themselves involved and they maybe the ones getting arrested as a result, but the organised way in which the Russian ultras were operating, seems clear it was well planned in advance, it wasnt spur of the moment have a ruck with some England fans who were singing rude songs about the locals.

Pross

BelgianBeerGeek wrote:

Think I read somewhere that the Mayor of Lens has closed all the bars before the England/Wales game. Seems a bit of an over-reaction, but as said we Brits have a terrible reputation abroad for drunken loutish behaviour. And not just sports fans.
What's to stop the match attendees getting lashed up on cheap French supermarket lager first remains to be seen.

Woah, leave the rest of us out of this!